Smash the Patriarchy with Faxx | 19
Show Notes:
Happy 2021 friends! For our first episode back from the winter break we are talking to Jen Hutchinson is a feminist, futurist + social entrepreneur, works at the intersection of women + world change. You can learn more about Jen from her website: https://www.jenhutchinson.co/
We discuss the new Old Navy size inclusive ad initiative, The Devil Wears Prada, Bridget Jones' Diary and how we can dismantle the patriarchy one day at a time.
Let's Get Social!
The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
The Guest: Jen Hutchison
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous. And I'm your host, Julia. And on today's show, we are talking about body size representation and entertainment. My guest this week is Jen Hutchinson of girl facts.
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In 2016, I was fired from my job and my very routine life turned into a very interesting mess. I didn't realize that I was probably entering into a depression. I was no longer working out regularly and generally stopped taking care of my body. I've mentioned on the show before that I've been so used to being the prettiest one in the room that I didn't really notice my body was changing because the world was still treating me as a beautiful one.
Then in my last year of graduate school, which was 2019, the work got harder and I had few employment stints that didn't work out and sunk deeper into an UN into an unrecognizable state except no one in my life had been around long enough to tell me that I had changed all my longtime friends with few exceptions.
I was. Mostly out of embarrassment. Then one day I got a real job, a true adult job that required. I wore more than comfy pants and I realized nothing in my closet fit. I looked in the mirror and I didn't recognize my face. Who was this woman staring back at me? I had no idea. As I started to get my life together as a freshly minted graduate degree, holding students, gainfully employed, and finally able to pay every single bill on time, I started feeling like a different kind of shit, a reckoning, if you will.
Never in my life. Had I been larger than a size 12 nor had I been ignored at a bar, but suddenly I was invisible to the world. And while many women have to deal with the way the world treats them because of their size, their whole lives. That was never my story. So being 35 at the time, coming out of a depressive state and the world treating me differently, opened my eyes to a form of bullshit that I still am figuring out how to navigate.
But before we dive into today's topic, I want to introduce you to my guest, Jen Hutchinson, feminist futurist and social entrepreneur works at the intersection of women and world change. As the founder of girl facts, her feminist news website, she's proving that women's leadership is the next global game changer.
And as the creator and facilitator of her smack. Workshop, she's teaching other feminists activists and change makers, how to smash the patriarchy smarter, not harder in less time, and with guaranteed results that fit into your daily life and lifestyle. So we can become the leaders. The world has been waiting for.
She also speaks about her experience of being an only air quote. So I'm putting air quotes around that only. As the former female CFO of a $35 million company about being a survivor of depression and imposter syndrome as an act of resilience and how we can be the generation that evolves the feminist movement to be inclusive and relevant by changing its agenda to a call to action for rural change.
I also want to add that Jen and I met in future thought leader, which is hosted by family, who you can find on Instagram has family on the go and. Clearly you can understand why I was like, I think I liked this person based on her bio. So Jen, welcome to the show. I'm so
Jen: excited. You're here. Thank you, Jules.
I'm so excited to be here. I love this topic. I'm so
Julia: happy to dive in. Yes. I feel like you're a really good person to bring this conversation to because our first topic you actually like. Friends at home. Don't worry. We'll tell you what the first topic is in a moment, but it, you know, it was on my peripheral, but then when we started talking and I was reading what you had, like the information you'd gathered about it, I was like, all right, well, that's what we're going to start off with.
So I know from kind of prepping for today's episode and getting all my information from you. You shared a little bit about what your favorite movie is, and I'm wondering if you could tell our friends at home about your favorite movie. Oh my God.
Jen: Okay. Um, one of a ton of them, but I love always go back to the maybe Orlando.
D
Julia: do you ever see that movie? I haven't seen it, but after you kind of described it and why you loved it, I was like, okay, maybe I'll watch it this weekend.
Jen: It's an older, maybe it's kind of weird, but it's amazing. First of all, told us when a lab
Julia: or any item. She's amazing.
Jen: Yes. So in this movie she goes to she's 400.
She goes through she's just 400 years old. Okay. It just, she just starts and she never really ages. It's not a vampire thing. It's just like a social commentary. And she starts as, as a man and she can do all of this stuff and it's in like the, uh, Elizabethan, England. She she's a land owner. She's a beautiful state and she can travel wherever she wants and this and that.
And halfway through the movie, she changes into a woman. Isn't really explained, and it doesn't really matter, but she's literally women. And so they take her home away from her because she's a woman she's not allowed to own land. And it is such just that interesting. Juxtaposition to see what women could have and what they couldn't have and how she deals with it.
And it's amazing. And it's so timely for what's happening right now. Just the whole like gender
Julia: identity
Jen: and, um, what are. Stupid generals allow us
Julia: to meet, right? Yeah. That sounds really good. We'll have to, well, I'll have to, like I said, I'm going to have to find it on streaming and watch it and really get into it and then it, and then you'll have to come back so we can talk about it on the show.
Okay. So the pressure for women to be thin and beautiful isn't new. The 20th century advertising world has been very clear from the beginning in order to be happy, a woman must be thin and beautiful. So today, Jen and I will be discussing three very specific points in pop culture and they are old news.
New marketing campaign, Bridget Jones's diary and the devil wears Prada. I think y'all, if you've seen them know where we're going with this for as long as I can remember, plus sizes have always been more expensive and the styles. Appeared to be unflattering on the hanger. In the summer of 2021 old Navy announced their body equality campaign, a permanent change to the way that they operate their stores and advertising.
They are no longer charging, more for sizes considered plus size, and their advertising campaigns will be more inclusive of all shapes and sizes and friends. If you haven't seen, they have had. Commercials featuring Aidy Bryant of SNL fame who has whole areas. And she does, she was on the show called shrill.
And if you haven't seen it, it's on Hulu go now three seasons. It's excellent. So I want to start there. What kind of impact do you think this will have on fashion? Because fashion is notoriously cruel about size.
Jen: Well, I think it's going to take a while for it to trickle up to, you know, high fashion. Those guys have their bottle and they know what fashion's supposed to look like, and they know what fashion models are supposed to look like.
Um, but I think that this is interesting that this is happening, where the majority of women who look like real women who are, excuse me, I didn't say look like woman, um, who. The fashion models, this is happening closer to their life and their lifestyle and where they actually buy their clothes. And that's really important because I think that is going to have a much bigger impact on public perception.
Then that high fashion is going to do one of the reasons that. I believe that is, um, kill. We're currently seeing the body positive movement that sort of started on Instagram, which got, you know, really big there. And people started understanding it, but it was really, you know, only talking to kind of specific, um, uh, preaching to the choir kind of audience.
But we're seeing that step off of Insta and step onto the floor. Of old Navy and this is a brand that's a huge conglomerate us, uh, gap and, um, data Republic. That, that owns old Navy. So, so it's getting into kind of a, more of the national conversation. And then you have those former souls. You were just talking about, like the dancing one is my favorite, love it.
And those bodies are completely normalized. They're doing normal things and we're not calling them out because they're plus size. They're just women doing a super normal commercial kind of thing. And so when you're elevating it, in my opinion to the national conversation, And you have more than just a preaching to the choir audience watching this.
Um, then that's where we're going to get the changes. More changes, I think in public perception and hopefully shifting the male gaze, but we have to keep seeing.
Julia: I love your point about it being, you know, old Navy is like taking it straight to the people. They're bypassing the gatekeepers. They're part of the gatekeeping system, but they're bypassing the gatekeepers and saying like, we hear our base.
They're telling us what they want. And so we're going to listen. I love that.
Jen: Well, The thing is, is that it, this is, this is so great that this is happening now. Um, it was one of the things that I do on girl facts is I, I I'm showing women what we're doing these days. I have statistics in these articles that are showing that women make companies more profitable, something we all know about, but women also women's leadership also makes, um, countries more stable and government or equitarian.
So that. It's happening and women right now are depending on this 2 68, you read 60 to 80%. They make the financial decisions in their house from buying a car to insurance, to, to groceries. So if women who are now in the United States, um, size 16 to 18 is the average. Then that's, who's buying the clothes and people are recognizing this Aerie real airy, the company area, which is owned by Eagle Outfitters.
I think they did around 2014, a campaign called Aerie real. And when they did it, their, uh, their profits went up and their company grew really interesting case study. So people are. Noticing and, um, I think another interesting point is that old Navy CEO's as a woman. Oh, I didn't
Julia: realize that.
Jen: And in line with what I was just saying about, you know, women bringing in this kind of new consciousness and this, in this love of diversity for their customers and creating customer for companies, she actually listened to.
Her her constituents. She worked with people. She found it, what they wanted and this isn't just a one-off compete. Okay. So you're going to go into their stores and you're going to see the model that mannequins that are going to be up to size 18. They're selling size zero to 30, um, and nothing.
Everything's the same. Let's say this is not a different price,
Julia: which is huge because money is money. I mean, money is hard for some people. And you know, if you're, if you're, I don't know that price difference, that's, that's an equity issue in my mind. Yeah,
Jen: absolutely. And I think one of the most interesting aspects to me about this woman, the CEO bringing this out is it's not just a one up thing and she's taking.
She's having this ethos church, every part of the company, including teaching other people on the floor, how to be inclusive to this audience and like sensitivity trainings. So, um, I think that's just amazing to see it not be this one-off thing and that the market is starting to respond in that women's how're as a consumer is only gonna make these changes happen more and more and more often in the.
Julia: Yeah, that's awesome. So how do you think this kind of campaign could have affected you if it came 20 or sooner? Cause I feel like my entire life we've had messages. Like I cannot think of a point in my life ever where the message wasn't you have to be fit. You have to be pretty.
Jen: No. I can remember when I was trying bathing suits on with my aunt and I was probably like 13 and oh God, you know, horrible time to be frying up anything.
And I wouldn't come out of it. And my aunt said, you know what I mean, tan fat is better than white fat. Oh my God. Cause I was really white. Cause I didn't ever really get sun and that kind of stuck with me and you know, of course. That leads to the statistics that we have right now, um, where young girls are more afraid of being fat than they are of losing their parents nuclear war and getting cancer.
Oh my gosh. That is a fact. It is in the council for sizes discrimination, go on their
Julia: website. You can find that
Jen: if I had seen this 20 years ago, I think it would affect me individually as a woman to see other bodies. And I would have been really curious about it, but, you know, we had Bennet's mine and that was, do you remember Benetton or am I like
Julia: totally dating myself?
I have. I remember you remember.
Jen: Okay. So Ben as had this whole thing, what about all the models where you know, all the colors and. Some of their ads were like colored condoms and it was like sex positivity. It was during the aids thing. But I think that was more of a blip because now we have this kind of woman power market power behind us that I think is going to take this message a lot farther and hopefully for a lot more women.
Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. So how would you for, so for our friends at home who maybe haven't seen the campaign yet, how would you describe it to, how would you describe this campaign and the shift in the way that they're doing marketing to them?
Jen: Um, let's see. What are they? Um, so they are, um, they're offering every style in every size with no price.
Um, they're the first retailer to offer size zero to 30 and extra small to four X. And, um, they're merchandising of everything is going to be together. There's not going to be like. Size section, like I said, the mannequins are going to be up to size 18, and they're going to have this online shopping thing where you can toggle the model that's on your thing to like, which is really, I think that's
Julia: super.
Yeah, Fabletics does that. And it actually really does impact my decision-making on what I order from them if I order from them, because it might look really cute on a small, extra small, but then I may not like the way it hits on like, you know, cause I'm going to buy an extra large. So then I may not like the way it looks, just the way that the cut looks on an extra-large body.
But it really helps too with colors because they come with different color, uh, types, pant type of pants. And whenever they have like a really cute print and it's like, okay, but what does that look like on a girl? Who's got a booty because I need it to not be like an arrow pointing to my booty, you know?
Jen: Uh, and I mean, I, I love that when you're going to go into the store, you're going to see yourself and you're going to see yourself are presented in. The models in the advertising, in the store and the, this, the people in the store are going to be sensitive to who you are. And, um, you know, that's, that's super important to you because, like I said, she's bringing ethos in and everybody's going to be getting educated.
Everybody in the company is being educated. How we change public perception to the more people that know about it, the more people that are having the conversation. And, you know, I'm going to say, I'm going to go out there. I'm a limb and say, I don't know, all of that would have happened if the CEO wasn't a woman.
Julia: Yeah. I'm going to have to agree with you on that. Because I think a lot of times when I'm trying to, especially, you know, even, even if at the person. Even if the person I'm speaking to is open-minded and has, um, you know, as an ally, they're still nuanced things that get missed, you know, and having to explain that can be really hard, um, unless you have that lived experience.
And so I think it really does make a difference or unless you're really lucky and that person understands the nuance because they watched somebody go through it. Right. Like, I like to believe that my son's going to be a little bit. Unintentional ally, because he had to basically sit around and listen to his mom and her friends for his entire life complain about like the way that marketing happens or the messages that we receive, or like, what's bullshit about our careers because we're getting held back because we're women.
And like, he's like by osmosis, like my apartment's not big. So he literally can hear us have these conversations. If we lived in a larger setting, he may not be as close to getting that message because, you know, he could be in a different room. He's in a different room, but it's not a small, it's not a large space.
He can hear us talking.
Jen: No, that's such an, that's such an important part of male and young women's education and it's not of any curriculum. Really should be talking to young men and women about this from the beginning and talk about sense and, um, you know, W why, why wait, and then it doesn't happen. And then we're in this situation, the rats.
Julia: Right?
Jen: Right. Glad you're having those conversations that your son can
Julia: over here. The last thing I want is for, I don't know. I have a whole other issue situation in my head about being a solo parent. So like, that's, we don't have time for that conversation, but I'm sure you can imagine. In 2006, the movie, the devil wears Prada was released starring Anne Hathaway, Meryl Streep, Emily blunt, and everyone's favorite Italian Stanley Tucci.
The movie, which is based on a book is about a young woman recently graduated from college who moves to New York to land a job as a journalist and finds herself working for the biggest fashion magazine. In the world, the entire film, Andy Sachs's size is mentioned. She's a size six she's referred to as the chubby girl and other sort of niche statements like that, or that finding clothes that fit her from the closet might be a stretch.
Already fucked up mind game for every woman. But in this particular film, the message is very clear. Andy Sachs size six equals fat. Even Emily Blunt's character shares her dieting secrets to stay trim. What isn't clear in the case of Andy is whether or not this is a satire. Or commentary on how ridiculous size obsession is.
But the spiral I fall into is this, this movie is making fun of how serious the fashion industry takes itself, which includes appearance in the book. I don't remember her weight being such an issue. And I don't know if that's because it's been, it's probably been 10 years since I've read the book. If we're going to be honest, Or maybe because in the book I was, so they downplayed wait because they were so focused on her, how horrific Miranda priestly is.
And let me tell you, she's like way worse in the book, like, like how she is in the movie is like, that's like, that's like G-rated before the devil wears Prada, we had a less glamorous. Bridget Jones's diary written by Helen fielding. The book was released in 1996 and the film was released in 2001, starring Renee Zellweger, Hugh grant, and everyone's favorite British heartthrob, Colin Firth.
And this book, it is very clear. The commentary on weight is satire. Helen fielding is flipping the narrative and showing just how ludicrous and time-consuming. It can be to be obsessed with losing five to 10. And it seems that it doesn't matter what weight you are. Almost every woman wants to lose five to 10 pounds.
And I just don't understand that mentality. Regina George, even in mean, girls makes a comment at some point that says, I want to lose 30 pounds. And it's such a small number that could easily be achieved after one visit. It makes a trip to the ladies room. And I mean, in the terms of like evacuating your bowels, I don't mean any other form.
I wrote that and I was like, Ooh, that could be interpreted. But what Bridget Jones, the movie seems to miss is the irony. Renee Zellweger gained weight for the role thus making Bridget self-deprecating talk more about weight loss than it did about why we are obsessed with weight loss in a Vogue article written by Sophie verse Bo.
She asks. Did Bridget Jones make us hate our bodies. And she states in this article when Bridget Jones's diary came out, I was 11 years old. And just learning that hating your body was a normal part of being a woman. I mean, that's heartbreaking. Not to mention, I don't know if you remember the media storm that was around Renee Zellweger's weight gain slash loss for the role.
Like it was freaking news headlines for crying out loud. So, you know, considering the negative impacts of weight in pop culture, what are some ways Hollywood can shift the narrative to be less harmful because I'm sure you remember, like they literally did a fitting for her and hadn't no clothing that would fit.
When she was doing like a photo shoot for one of the magazines. And I think I was, so the movie came out in 2001. So it was like, I was, I was in high school at that point. So like, like that's a, that's a bad message to send to high school kids guys like, oh, we don't have clothes to fit you. And you're a big time star.
You're too fat.
Jen: I'm sorry. I just kind of spit your sermon. Woof. Dang. That's where Dick. Um, but I think the answer is just to have more women writers and directors and producers and studio heads, because Hollywood is another place where the patriarchy and the status quo are so entrenched. Um, not just in the hierarchy of, you know, where women are in, you know, what jobs, but also in the stories that is.
And we're retails and retails that amplify, that status quo on our gender roles and what we're supposed to look like and what behaviors we're supposed to have and what desires we're supposed to have. And, um, that, you know, again, talking about that, that national conversation and the optics, they just get reinforced until they become what is acceptable.
So I mean, studios, they're the holds. Obviously, but they're not going to move as fast as this cultural shift that's happening right now, now, but they'll eventually have to move where consumers are moving and, you know, we need to start asking for those stories to be told, we need to, you know, start hearing the stories about what, what is real and actual.
Look feel and sound like,
Julia: yeah. The power of Twitter, man. I mean, I've seen a lot of things change because of Mo because of chatter on Twitter, some good, some bad, but it is really it's, it's so wild to be existing in a time where Twitter users have power.
Jen: Yeah. It's, it's like, uh, I know they're a voice. It's like an Oracle, you know, like other voices not talking about.
The status quo was talking about. Very
Julia: interesting. It really is. We are so inundated with weight equaling our worth. I don't think I realized until I was an adult. Just how shitty it is to have these two films be like romcom classics that they are, but also be so awful about female appearance.
Jen: Maybe it'll be like gone with the wind.
And in 20 years, we'll have disclaimers on predict Jones. Like, um, you know, some of the, some of the women in this film are based on the past net-zero normative gender class consciousness. That many human beings.
Julia: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that. I love that. I also find, so like I wrote in grad school, we had to come up with like a course curriculum.
And so I did a book to screen adaptation course to help people. Adapt books to screen without losing their integrity. And, and I, so now that I've like spent a year doing that, I am really picky about keeping the essence, because if you like with Bridget Jones, like in the book, it is so clear. She's like, you know, saying she's 119 pounds and she needs to lose weight or 120 pounds that she needs to lose weight.
And so to me, the message was very clear from Helen fielding. This is bullshit. Like she's wasting her. Being obsessed with this and just how ludicrous it was. But in the movie, it was so much of who she was that it added to her being flighty to me because in the book I feel like, I feel like she had more substance in the book than she did in the movie and that, and removing that.
I don't know who adopted it to screen. It's been so long and I probably should've looked it up before we started talking, but it, I don't know any woman who hasn't seen Bridget Jones and it's such an impact to us culturally. And every year when the anniversary of double war product happens, like people take to Instagram and social media to sort of quote honor.
This last year at the anniversary, they talked about how the real villain wasn't Miranda priestly, but actually Andy Sachs his boyfriend for not being supportive in her career.
Jen: Interesting cultural
Julia: shift. Yeah. I was like, oh, we never would've thought about that in 2006,
Jen: but it's true. We wouldn't have right.
Julia: We didn't, we didn't. So a lot of people think the world is total trash right now, but I believe that that's because we are making necessary cultural and social shifts harmful large and small scale behavior is being called out and forced to either shape up or ship out. But the biggest hurdle is that not everyone can agree on what shape up looks like.
But Jen, because you're our expert on smashing the patriarchy. What do you believe are steps to move forward for a better society for women?
Jen: I think that we, as women have to understand that, um, patriarchy's job is to dehumanize us, but women specifically, and in doing that to keep. Distracted at best and emotionally beat down at worst.
Um, so that we don't have the time or the energy or the focus to fight it. So I would say that bring, smashing the patriarchy into your daily consciousness because you're not going to smash it overnight. None of us we're not going to do. But if you can say, you know what, today I was a victim of toxic masculinity today.
I was the victim of gaslighting today. I was a victim of misogyny. You know, that's something that patriarchy is doing to me, and that doesn't have anything to do with my character or my abilities or my leadership skills. That's somebody else's judgment completely. And to take start taking the journey of separating that.
And saying, you know, who I really am. I, and let me, let me look at some of the contributions that I'm making in the world. Let me be TA pat myself on the back for doing amazing things. Instead of constantly being worried and having the majority of my brain taken up by what patriarchy is trying to manipulate me into thinking.
And I'm going to tell you that because we now know. What women are contributing to the world and seriously go on my girlfriend's side and you're going to be amazed. It's going to make it easier for us as individual women to want to heal from toxic masculinity and kind of start fresh with a new perspective.
Going forward that, um, yes, those things are always going to be around me. Those things are always going to be affected me on a daily basis, but I can have a daily practice of saying, um, I'm going to push back on that. And I'm going to be aware that when things are happening to me, it's a patriarchal thing and it doesn't have anything to do with me.
And I'm going to allow myself to not judge myself. I'm going allow myself to see the reality of my situation and hopefully bring myself back down to earth and. Be able to say, you know what? I'm okay. And I can take the next step forward. Do the amazing things that women are here to do in this world.
Julia: I love that.
I love what you said about, you know, having that daily practice because they think self-talk is so important. And I know there's a lot of conversation around self care and that's a huge push right now, but what I'm seeing missing from some people's ideas of self care is how they talk to them. Yes. I have seen a few folks talk about that on the internet, but it doesn't seem to get the same traction as, you know, self care does and the way that we know self care to be.
But if you're constantly being told. Your, you know, being beat down and being told all these things. It's so hard to change that mindset, to say to yourself, loving and kind things. Um, but I like, did you say, did you say something about, I'm trying to speaking to yourself daily, but like if, what if some, like writing it down to putting it on your mirror?
So that way you, when you get home and you're changing. You can see, like, I am confident I am strong. I, or whatever the, the affirmations need to be. Cause it, you come in we've, we've talked, I've had a guest and I talked about this on a previous episode where when you come home from the day after being beat up all day, like you don't want to come home and feel beat up again.
Cause we were referring to relationships and you know, if you're in a relationship where you still have to wear your armor, that's not, that's not healthy.
Jen: No, I'm not, well, I have a workshop on this and it's, it's all about having to have daily awareness about what the patriarchy is doing to you. And, and a lot of us don't realize that smashing the patriarchy is good for our health.
And we live as women with the dis-ease of patriarchy, you know, toxic masculinity is, is, is part of that disease. So. When you have a disease in your life or disease in your life will be you, do you fix it? And one of those ways is every time you have a negative self thought, which she realized, and you can connect the dots back to patriarchy, you can reel it back and say, Hey, Hey, that's not true.
What's really going on here. Um, Practice starting to say nice things about yourself, because like building any muscle or going to the gym, matching the patriarch on a daily basis, it's, it's
Julia: practice
Jen: people to start thinking about it like that. Cause you're not necessarily going to smash patriarchy, but can you make it 1% better?
Can you make your, can you make yourself feel 1%? Every day and the next day for 1% better that you're not going to be controlled by it. I mean, that's a much easier, better way. That's why I say smarter, not harder. We all can do. And that can actually make a difference, right?
Julia: Yeah. Yeah, big time, you know, my friend and I have these, this daily routine where we send each other on iPhones, you can send a voice memo to each other and we will start the first ma and we just have a continuous conversation.
Like there's no, there's no time. There's no concept of time in our, in our relationship right now because we're just like whenever our thought. But we, every time, if it's the first time in that day, we were speaking to each other. We always open it with good morning. Beautiful. I love you. I hope that today is amazing for you.
And I hope the hurdles that get in your way are you, you hop them with ease or some sort of affirmation. And I tell you what, that makes a huge difference too. And I think the power of our voices to each other, um, really has, can really alter our state of mind if we're in a bad state. I know I've taken up the practice.
If I'm thinking about somebody, whatever I'm doing, unless I'm driving. Cause don't text and drive. That's not safe. Um, I'll send them a note. And 10 years ago I probably would have been too scared to do that. Oh, what are they going to think if I sent it so random dah, dah, dah. And now I'm just like, no, you know what?
Life's hard. I'm thinking about you. You need to know that somebody is thinking about you and that you are loved. I don't care if you respond back, like I just am throwing it out into the universe. I was thinking about you. I hope you're doing well. If I miss them, I'll say I miss them. Sometimes I don't miss them.
I was just thinking about them, but it makes a difference to know, like, it kind of reminds me like, I get messages like that and it reminds me I'm not alone. There are people out there who are like, I'm, you know, I'm, they're thinking about me and they put it out there. So I. One to the same in return for the people that I think about,
Jen: see that smashing the patriarchy too, because one of the, another thing that it does is it, it divides and separates women.
It, it, it has a sense of lack that we're all competing for the same thing and that, um, you know, people of different races and classes, women can't be together. And, you know, feminism movement had a lot to do with that too. But, you know, yes, reaching out to other women is, is, is crucial because the more of us that can create this.
I'm just thinking differently about who we are, is going to make the change that we can make as women, and that we need to make in the world happen in the time that it needs to happen. That's what I thoroughly believe in.
Julia: Yeah, absolutely. It'd be nice when I talked to, you know, And dad have been married for 50 years.
And when she talks about her early life in her, or when they got married in 1971. And so when they talk about when they first moved to California and just the hurdle she had because of, you know, being a woman and having like, what's your husband and where's your husband, and we can't do this without your husband and that kind of shit.
And so I have. As much as I get frustrated with current era, I have to think, thank God I can open a credit card on my own, but also, right. But also how can, what, what do I want to see for if I have granddaughters or, you know, grand nieces and nephews, like, what do I want to see for them? And then how can I demonstrate that kind of behavior?
So that way they think it's normal and then kind of spread that as well.
Jen: Yeah. And I think that's why that, um, you know, that old NABI ads especially is so important just to see that, what, what is, what does being normalized if we're saying 20 years ago, how did that made me feel? I hope sooner than 20 years going forward, um, our children and our grand nieces and all those people will won't have.
Same experience so strongly because these things will be normalized. Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. For sure. I mean, are you familiar with Roxanne gay? Yeah. Oh, I love her work so much. So I read her memoir hunger last year. It was like one of the only things I read during COVID cause I was working on a crisis COVID communications team.
And so it was really hard to like. It was just really hard emotionally, physically. It was all just hard. So I didn't do as much reading as I normally do in a year, but I read her memoir hunger, and she, one of the essays she wrote in there, she went into the ER for a broken ankle. And the first thing they note on her intake form is that is obesity.
I'm sorry, how, like what, like, it blew my mind and I was just like this poor woman. Like, why is that the first ailment people see of her? If she like a broken ankle, like, come on, like treat that. You're not, she's not there because she thinks she's fat. She's there because she broke her ankle. Like, whoa, I can't even draw the line.
You know what I mean? Like, I don't understand how that's the line that was drawn for her. And she, so I encourage everybody to go out and. By the memoir or rent it from the library, or if you rent it from the library audio book, she reads it herself. So you get her full storytelling capability, which is a lot of fun, but it just, it totally just like blew my mind.
And I felt, and it made me sad that that's how the medical systems probably been treating her her whole life.
Jen: Yeah. There's an interesting book that just came out to. I can't remember what it's called, but it's all about how, uh, the medical practice, medical practices, medical devices, and everything has always been based on men and, um, how it has affected women and, and referred
Julia: women.
Jen: And I wish I could remember the name of that book. It's so amazing, but even like the whole, um, you know, the. Crash test dummy, which is getting a little bit of people really don't understand what the statistics are, but, um, it is true that because of the way that they're designed, when women are an accident, they're 43% more likely to be injured.
So,
Julia: you know, That's a big deal. That's a big deal. Cause the primary, I mean, when you think about our society and the structure and primary caregivers are tend to be the woman, the wife, or even a grandmother or an aunt, if there's an ad, like that's my biggest fear when I'm driving my best friend, the one that I send the voice memos to, I refer to her daughter as my niece.
Um, if I'm driving her around my actual biggest fear, Somebody will hit us. Cause that's not my child. It's somebody else's child. And to bear the guilt of something happening, I mean, to bear the guilt of something happening to my child and my hands is next to none, but also somebody else's child. Like those are the two things I in my life I don't ever want to experience, but it is an actual concern because the system isn't designed to support us.
Jen: Oh, it's not, it's it's designed to disempower us. And like I said, keep us, uh, distracted. Off off topic. So we do need to keep talking to each other. And I was going to mention, when you were talking about you texts with your friend, but a few years ago, you may have felt like you didn't want to do that. An article just came out saying that a lot of women don't comment on Instagram because either they feel like they don't have something good enough to say and respond.
Or that person's already getting so much like, love and likes that I don't need to, you know, kind of get involved in it. Or, um, there was like a third reason. So, I mean, isn't that interesting that that's hardwired into our brains as women just don't raise your voice, don't make waves, well, make some waves, reach out, like get your, you know, get your girl posse together.
That's gonna support you in. You know, have your own little society. That's not based on. Yeah,
Julia: it really, it re I, I can't live friends at home. I can't encourage you to do that enough because I can't tell you how many times I've reached out to somebody and sent them a voice memo and you can, you can do it through Instagram.
So if you and your friends do not have the same type of device, there's still a way to do it. If you have an Instagram and. Where like one friend in particular, we actually, that's how we communicate is through voiceover only in Instagram. And I was thinking about her one morning. I was like, Hey girl, like it's Friday.
Like I know your job is stressful. And I just want to tell you that you're crushing it. And she sent me a thing back and she's like, I cannot even begin to tell you how much that makes my day. I've had a hard morning. Shit's like hitting the fan. I just was feeling very overwhelmed and like, thank you for that.
And I was like, okay, I'm just crying now. Because it makes it's that small it's that one small, tiny little
Jen: gesture has so much ROI.
Julia: So at the end of the day, that's all we want anyways, to know that we're safe, loved, and wanted, and whatever that looks like for us, like how safe love and wanted looks for us.
It's different for everybody. It's not going to be the same for everybody. And to tie it back to the old Navy campaign, you know, you, I love that you brought up the third doing like sensitivity trainings or different types of trainings because. Intimidating and scary. Must it be, it's already hard to shop for clothes and then say you're plus size.
And then you're talking to somebody who you view is a tiny little twig, and then they make some sort of off comment that they don't realize is hurtful. Right?
Jen: Yeah. So, yes. And that, that education is going to go all through that accompany and have ripple effects.
Julia: Oh, my gosh, Jen.
Uh, I think I've been talking about female qualities since I was a babbling baby, but this is why we connected, but only I think now I am that I'm a little bit more grown than I was 10, even 10 years ago. Do I feel like I really have the language where I can actually challenge the world? I don't know if I could have challenged the role 10 years.
I mean, I'm like, I was challenging it in my own ways, but. Now that it's more in conversation and we've got more like people actually like academically studying it and studying it on a scientific level as well. You know, they, it gives us language to be able to stand up for ourselves and say things like I reject X.
And here's why.
Jen: Um, something called body positivity and there are languages changing around this and it will continue to change. And that's something that you are doing with this amazing podcast. And I am so happy to be on and just love that you are talking about pop culture and dismantling the pop culture.
Julia: I'm just like, I love TV and movies.
Why did you do this to my head guy? Like, what do you mean? I can't have a romcom for my life and it be perfectly buttoned up after 90 minutes and I get the perfect guy for me. Like I'm still mad, but that didn't, that's not true.
Jen: You know, man, I have the best relationship, so that's some of my hat or my pet.
So, you know, you can have love for a woman and a dog. You know, screw the formula romcom, where do we feel safe? Where do we feel love? Where do we feel wanted? Where we feel secure. It can be what works for us. And for me at the end of the day, this crawling into bed with my Chihuahua. Oh,
Julia: I loved that. We did, we got a dog during the pandemic and I tell you what, I don't know how we lived without her before.
It's so nice, especially so like, there was a point where my son was always super happy when I came home from work and it was so sweet and he'd come running up to me and mom and all the sweetness and hugs and kisses, and it just felt so good. And then it was like, okay, give me 10 minutes to decompress from work and then I'll come back.
Um, and then, I don't know, he's still, he's still very willing to spend time with me, which I love. Cause not a lot of too, that's not a teenager thing. Right. But at some point that. Meeting me at the door, welcoming me home ended. And when we got the dog, she's like, you're home. Oh my gosh, this is the best moment of my life.
Mommy's home. And then she's just like so happy. And I, and I said to him one day, cause he was doing homework in the living room. I was like, I didn't know how much I needed to have somebody very happy to see me come home.
Jen: Right. Exactly.
Julia: She's just cutest, Jen. I cannot thank you enough for coming on today.
Is there anything that we missed that you want to bring to our, um, to bring to conversation that I, I, that I missed? Is there any burning topics leftover that we want to grab real quick? Um,
Jen: I, I, I, I just, you know, smash patriarch every day. You can do it.
Julia: Okay. I am so thrilled that you came today to have this discussion with me.
I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your day to do this. Also, I'm going to watch that movie. I'm a hit you up. Cause then we're going to do an episode about it.
Jen: Um, and I could, I will say that go on girl, facts.com. Two Xs FXX. Cause we have two promos on it's the facts about how are two chromosome.
The XX phenomenon is going to change the world, um, and get all these good facts about how amazing you are as a woman in like what you're contributing to the world and just know that. This whole narrative that we can't do, anything is bullshit and we're uncovering that it's wrong. And it's like this like forensic, you know, archeology, like it's coming to the surface about how powerful we are and what we can offer.
And I just, I just need you all to know that. I mean, I don't really want my Ms. Listening to know that
Julia: it doesn't matter how old you are. Girlfriends girls, ladies, women. It does not matter how old you are. There is still time. And we love it. So you've mentioned your website. Is there anywhere else that people can keep up with you online if they want to keep up with you?
Yeah, I can
Jen: do real facts as well on
Julia: and stuff. Okay, cool. And friends we'll link everything in our notes for you. So that way you can have an easy access to Jen. And I just can't tell you enough. This, this conversation was so great. If you got something out of this, if you feel, and I feel, I feel like there's tons of nuggets, send it to your friends to listen to let's empower the world quietly one episode at a time
and friends, you know this by now. If you want to keep up with us in between episodes, we're also on Instagram at pop culture makes me jealous. If you haven't already hit that, like or subscribe button. So you never miss a new episode because there, well, some of them are more fabulous than others. I'm not going to lie, but this is definitely one of the ones you don't want to miss.
Thanks for tuning in y'all until next time everybody.
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