Asian American Representation in Hollywood with Amy Albertson | 20
Show Notes:
Host Julia Washington is joined by Amy Albertson to discuss Asian American representation in Hollywood.
The pair examines the impact of the increased representation over the last few years by discussing titles like Mulan, Crazy Rich Asians, and how very loud public conversations about mixed actors being cast in big Hollywood features.
Let's Get Social:
The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
The Guest: Amy Albertson
This episode is sponsored by Instagram Power Hour
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, it's pop culture makes me jealous. And I'm your host, Julia. And on today's show, Amy Albertson is here and we are talking Asian representation in Hollywood.
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Amy: hour.
Julia: Amy Albertson as a Jewish advocate and educator from California, while living in Israel for six years, she created the Asian Israeli where she cataloged her experiences as a Chinese American Jewish woman. She's an active online voice for mixed Jews, particularly highlighting her experience as an Asian-American Jewish woman.
We first met during future thought leader in the summer of 2021, hosted by family. When I started following her on Instagram, I started learning so much about Jewish culture, which is a whole other show that she and I could do together. Anyway, Amy, welcome to the show.
Amy: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you, Julia.
Um, yes. I generally talk a lot about being Jewish,
Julia: but I am also Asian and
Amy: I'm so excited to talk to you today about Asian representation in the media, because it's a conversation that I've been following my whole life and now more consciously as an adult, right?
Julia: Oh, I love it. I'm excited too, because we haven't really had a lot of conversations centered around, um, Asian American experiences on the show.
So this is exciting for me. On November 6th, 2018, the New York times ran an op ed. Totally LaForce titled. Why do Asian Americans remain largely unseen in film and television? LaForce reports, representation of Asians within American performing arts has always been alarmingly small, a recent study by the university of Southern California's Annenberg school for communication and journalism showed Asian-Americans representing only 1% of all leading roles in Hollywood.
The 2017 United States census bureau reported that there are 18 million Americans of Asian descent or roughly 6% of the population. So Amy, I want to start with talking about Disney's 1998 animated feature Mulan, Roger Ebert called the movie and impressive achievement with a story and treatment ranking with beauty and the beast and the lion king.
So tell me about your first memories of watching this movie and how it impacted you.
Amy: So Milan, I think is like the first conscious memory I have of like what we could call Asian representation in the media. Like, look, I'll admit to you. I was seven years old in 1998, but that being said, like, I remember my family being like excited.
Like, you know, when you get, I think it's kind of like a modern, this is like a modern validation for any group, right? Like when you get a Disney princess, you've made it into the main ethos of what? Like the world. Yes. So the films, so first of all, the film that was like amazing and Milan herself is not only like for Asians, but like a great female character where she, you know, she pretends to be a man and goes to war even though her dad and her family are like, don't do that.
Um, oh God, the dogs.
Julia: Okay. My dog regularly makes an appearance with barking or drinking out of the water bowl.
Amy: Okay. So yeah. So Milan, first of all, And when Milan came out, it was really big for my family. Not necessarily because we're so Chinese, like we're very American, but it is a huge deal, like to get your own Disney princess.
And then for me as a kid, I finally got to have a Chinese Barbie doll. And I think that that's like such an interesting connection between like, you know, I guess until Disney made a film about Asian, an Asian girl, like they didn't think it was important enough to have like an Asian Barbie doll. Um, and so, you know, I guess all the nerdy sidekick characters didn't deserve a doll.
Julia: Right. But I understand what you mean. I remember, I remember being in target the first time I saw a black Barbie and thinking, oh my God, I need this. And I think I was probably eight or nine years old. Like that's a long time to go without seeing yourself in the toy
Amy: aisle. Yeah. Like I always had, I mean, I had all the Barbies, but like Theresa was my favorite Barbie.
She had like brown hair, but I don't look anything like Theresa and she's certainly not Asian. Um, but yeah, so that was, I think like next to being able to like watch a Disney princess who was Asian, you know, the F the whole cultural impact that, that has on like other industries, like getting toys that look like me was really exciting.
Yeah. I
Julia: recently found a raggedy Ann doll. That's brown. And my mom reminded me that she had to make it because they did not make brown raggedy. And I thought, oh my gosh, you forgot. I forget sometimes like that you don't, we didn't have, when we're not white, we didn't necessarily have, I mean, you walked down the toilet aisle and it's still not, it's, it's more diverse now than it was 30 years ago, but still there's still a little, right.
We wouldn't be having these conversations if it was, you know, everything was being done right.
Amy: Right. And I think it's, it's just interesting. Um, you know, because I think we just took it for granted. Right. We didn't think that there was another choice. So we were just like, okay. Yeah. I play with my white baby dolls and, and that's that, you know, but I'm glad that now it's more of a conversation and hopefully one day it won't even need a conversation.
It will just
Julia: be, yeah. Did you ever do, were you ever into American girl?
Amy: Yeah. So I wasn't American girl dolls, but I love Samantha who again is a white girl. Um, but meant one thing we loved one American girl dolls was my aunt. You know, they used to have, I think now you can just like build a Barrett where you like pick the different features, but then they had like all these versions of dolls you could get and pick one that looked the most like you.
So my aunt got a little Asian girl, American girl doll that looked like her. And I thought it was like the coolest thing, but those things were so expensive. My parents were like, you already have one. You're not getting another one.
Julia: Right. American girl was so smart by moving into that realm of like, create your own.
Um, just because they had the standard. Here's our three girls, the American revolutionary, like there was only three when I was little. So here's the American revolutionary girl. Wow.
Amy: There was definitely more, yeah. When they introduced
Julia: Addy, I was like, oh my God yet. And I was too. By the time they introduced Addie, but I still was like, yes, I will take the Addie American girl books.
That's how desperate, you know, sometimes you can feel for like I'm out of the age rage. Anyway. I don't know if there's an Asian American story though. In the American girl storyline, this is not scripted.
Amy: Not there's not, um, there's not, but they did get a Jewish girl, but she is, um, yeah, she's cool, but she's a little bit.
Uh, what we call in, like maybe the Jewish community, like Ashkin normative Jewish American princess stereotype a bit. So I have some problems with her. Um, but you know, that's a story for another podcast.
Julia: We can pin that for when you come back. So we can talk about Jewish representation. So earlier in the article I referenced the author goes on to note that the New York times recently reported that in the search for the male lead in crazy rich Asians, one of the movies producers was told by several prominent American theater schools that they hadn't had a male Asian graduate in years, a study by multiple universities reported that over a one-year period of the 242 scripted shows on broadcast cable and streaming TV.
Just one third had a series regular who is Asian American or. Islander. So anyone who's been listening to the show regularly knows that I just want my life to be a buttoned up romcom. Like all I want, but romcoms are dominated by white inheritance. It's true. It's a problem. It's probably why I'm in a dialogue.
It's I just need, I just need it to like, be all perfect and cute, whatever. Anyway, but romcoms are dominated by white narratives and white casts with maybe a quirky best friend who may be a, for lucky represents a minority group, but crazy rich Asians released on August 15th, 2018 and was adapted for film from the Kevin Kwan book of the same name, which is actually a trilogy.
For those of you listening. If you're not familiar, the movie was met with mixed reviews and criticism and a rotten tomato audience score of 76% though it could be argued. Romcoms are generally underrated and under appreciated.
Amy: But I'd say that's true. Thank you,
Julia: Amy. I appreciate you being on my team
Amy: for that definitely on your team for that.
But
Julia: Henry Golding, who's beautiful is the first Asian male lead in a romcom that I can remember. And criticism aside, I can't believe the first time in my life seeing a sexy male lead of Asian descent was at the age of 34. I do want to point out though that Henry Golding is tea mixed, which posts to be a problem for some.
But a romantic comedy, starting an all Asian cast was long overdue. So let's talk about this movie and what it means for the bigger conversation about love interests, and for our friends, listening at home, here's a real quick summary of crazy rich Asians. If you haven't seen slash read the books, Rachel Chu is happy to come
Amy: watch and read it.
Julia: Yes. Agreed Rachel. She was happy to accompany her longtime boyfriend, Nick, to his best friend's wedding in Singapore. She's also surprised to learn that Nick's family is extremely wealthy and he's considered one of the country's most eligible bachelors thrust into the spotlight. Rachel, miss now contend with jealous socialites.
Quirky relatives and something far, far worse, next disapproving mother, which is fear, which is a scary thing in any culture, by the way, that's not
Amy: just thinking, like,
Julia: I want to talk about the significance of a romcom, not only being an all Asian cast, but also at least in my memory. It's the first one that had a major distribution with an Asian leading man.
Amy: So let's talk about it. Yes. Oh yeah. So I love, I mean, so crazy rich Asians is such an interesting thing because, because it was like one of the most, I think it's one of the more recent, like most visible, he huge Asian productions, right? Like it's an all Asian cast. Um, it's not just like, it stars in Asian.
Like every character essentially in the whole movie is Asian. So that's like really incredible in and of alone. But like you said, it was like hotly debated in the community because. It shows a type of Asian that like most of us don't relate with. Like, I'm not a crazy rich Asian, I'm crazy, but I'm not rich.
Um, my family is crazy, but not rich. So, um, you know, like it doesn't represent me really at all. And there is the, the character of Rachel Chu who is the Asian-American. Right. And she, so this whole kind of dichotomy of like Asian from Asia versus Asian-American is really important. I think because you know, Chinese people from China will tell me, like, you're not Chinese, you're American, which is true.
I don't speak Chinese. I grew up in America. I'm third and third and fourth generation American. And you know, so there's something to be said about that, but yeah, the problematic representation of Asians as like being these really wealthy people is just really not representative of. Most Asians in America, I would say.
Yeah, because they
Julia: do in the movie, you know, they comment a couple of times, what did they call him? They call her, they referred to her as an M an ABC American
Amy: BBC. Yeah. So American ABC is,
Julia: yeah, ABC
Amy: is American born Chinese. And then you'll sometimes also hear the term banana, which is yellow on the outside, white on the inside.
I've also heard it as Twinkie, but less, um, yellow on the outside, white on the inside. But banana is definitely the more common, um, the common thing used, but like what I also wanted to, um, you, so you brought up Henry Golding who? Yes. Um, thank you, Henry Golding for gracing the screen with your presence and being shirtless.
Yes. Uh, but yes, it is. Sorry. He definitely is like our first one of our first Asian sex bulls. Right. And the interesting irony I suppose, is that Asian women are like, historically. Sexualized and fetishized and overly sexualized and Asian men are on the other side where everyone's like, you know, it's like a whole thing about like, does like won't date.
Asians are like, no Asians, please. And your Tinder profile, which is so weird to me. I don't understand that I get, so I have to, I mean, I'll be, I'll admit I'm guilty myself. I've never dating an Asian, but I don't think it was ever conscious that I was like, I don't like Asians. Um, it just never happened. I don't know if that comes from like that.
I mixed and my dad is the non-Asian parent possibly. Um, although my boyfriend is black and my dad is not so, you know, who knows, but I, but I actually asked my brother, I asked him, cause you know, he's the Asian male, I'm not an Asian male, um, for anyone keeping score. Um, so I asked him, I was like, oh, do you think that you've ever had trouble.
You know, in this regard, because you're an Asian male, but he's much more white passing than I am. So he was saying like, his issue is that he's usually trying to date Asian women. He he's very much more into Asian women and they don't think he's Asian enough or if they do like him or if they are attracted to him, it's for his whiteness, which bothers him because he wants to feel more Asian, which is a whole thing about being mixed.
Yes. That you're never
Julia: enough. Yeah. My friend of mine and I were talking about that the other day, um, we were having this conversation about, we had just done this panel for guests. Who's coming to dinner and we were, and I was telling them, I said, it's been really hard dating in this town because you know, people say things to me like, well, why do you even care about, you know, black issues and all the stuff
Amy: you're like.
Julia: Cool. So I'm going to have to stay things for dinner. I got to go like people on the podcast. I realize
Amy: you can't see my face, but I'm making the most like, are you serious face?
Julia: Right. You know? And it's like a number one. It doesn't matter how light I am. The point is, is I still ha like my father is still black.
I'm still black. Like, there is a line there, but it's not, I'm personally trying to move away from the language of half and half because like it's, it's not really, that's not really true. It's just what we've always said. Um, but that whole being mixed is such a. It's I don't want to say it's a mind. Fuck.
But sometimes it can be,
Amy: especially when you're trying to, can you say that on the podcast all the time. Oh, okay, cool. Um, I mean, yeah. Like look, being mixed is really hard. I used to always say like, oh, I'm half this and half that. But it's like, the reality of the situation is like, yes, half of my DNA comes from an Asian woman and half of my DNA comes from a Jewish man.
But at the end of the day, like I'm a whole person and anything that's like anti-Asian, or anti-Semitic affects me 100%. It's not like, oh, I'm only like half hurt by it. Or, you know, people only half want to kill me, want to kill Jews, you know? So it just, I go away from that, just like, you know, people, aren't half racist to you as if you're black, half black, like.
I'm only like half think that she's, you know, whatever they think about black people, they, they just think about you as a black person.
Julia: So
Amy: yeah, the half situation
Julia: is not, it's hard, especially too, when you're like coming from when you're removed from like all of your people, like we're the only ones in California.
So that makes a difference too. I don't know. We have a lot of, we have a lot of, uh, exploring to do. I think we haven't been allowed as mixed people to explore what it means, because one of the sides will come at you with like, well, my struggle is harder. No, one's no one thing that your struggle isn't harder.
Yeah. Like that's not what we're saying. Yeah. We're just saying acknowledge that there's a struggle for like all of us light, dark doesn't matter.
Amy: Definitely. And this comes from, you know, we, we get it from both, both sides, right. Where it's like a person asking you, like, well, you're not even that black, so why do you care about black issues?
But then you also get it from your own commute. Like we get it from our own communities, right? Like, you know, Asians don't think I'm Asian enough Jews don't think I'm Jewish enough and then non Jews, or non-Asians also think I'm not enough of each of those things or, you know, why do you care about these things?
Um, But what's really interesting going back to the original segue going, going back to, no, this is all really relevant to the conversation. And like, going back to what you specifically pointed out about Henry Golden being mixed is another thing I asked my brother about being mixed, um, about being Asian and like the whole thing of, you know, men, not Asian men not being attractive or stereotypically not being attractive.
I asked him like, do you think media has had an impact on you in that way? And he was like, well, you know, honestly, Asian media didn't really resonate with him because he's mixed and he's more white passing and he never saw mixed, you know, Asians are almost always full Asian if in the media. Um, and so he was like, yeah, well, you know, I'm mixed and I'm, I visually am much more like white looking.
He's much more white looking than I am. And so he was like, yeah, you know, like, I don't look like the Asians I see on TV. You know, I don't, I don't look like really anybody that I see on TV and I don't still look like the Asians that I see on TV.
Julia: That's interesting for a lot of reasons, because I find that more recently, like in, when I go back to the catalog of stuff that I've watched growing up, it was, you're hard pressed to find an Asian character who wasn't forced to speak in an accent.
So it wasn't like they could exist here. Like these characters could not have existed here prior to.
Amy: You know
Julia: them coming to America, which isn't always the story. So you're creating a narrative that all Asians are immigrants right now, rather than like, yes, there's Asian, there's Chinese history in California for a century, if not less.
So this
Amy: is so problematic on so many levels. Like one it's historically inaccurate as far as Chinese people go. Right? And like, of course the Asian spectrum is broad, but Chinese people have been coming to America since the 18 hundreds. That's when Chinese immigration really started. And my F my Chinese side of my family is more generations American than my other side of my family.
Um, and so this is also something that, uh, as far as Asian representation, Asian American representation goes in in media is like Asian characters always have to have like, distinctly like Asian characteristics or. Something like that, that really ties them to being very Asian. So, you know, they speak Chinese or this things like this, but it's like, where are the Asian American characters who just exist in America?
Who descended from Asians? The only one I can personally think about is, uh, Glen from the walking dead, who is a Korean guy from Atlanta, but he's not like. He's Korean because he is paying, you know, his family descends from Koreans, but he, you know, he's like a pizza delivery boy or something, and he just ends up in the apocalypse and he's from Atlanta and that's it.
He like nothing about him other than like visually his Korean, he doesn't speak Korean or anything. So,
Julia: yeah. So this is a really good segue into the next topic, which is, you know, there was a lot of backlash about this movie. People were upset by the lightness of the actors. Some were even frustrated that Henry Golding was cast and he's mixed.
So therefore he's not quite fully Asian. And I know these conversations, this type of conversation about within the black community about black actors, like that shit fucks with my head sometimes. So I've spent a lot of time offline in my personal life, discussing those things. So I'm curious, like how do these public conversations affect you, Amy, but then also.
Some of the characters, like with what you were saying with, they're not, they're not allowed to be like American who look Asian or however you phrased it. I apologize. Yeah. Yeah. Like one of the characters in crazy rich Asians, she's like, she's got an Asian, an Asian parent. I think the parent is mixed. And so she's mixed.
And so like, people lost their shit, but she didn't look Asian, but she has like Asian to say an Asian. I forget specifically like where she fell in the spectrum. And I should have researched that before we hopped on here, but she's also in the land. Um, she plays
Amy: one of the friends in Lala land,
Julia: but like, I remember just people losing their shit about her being in this movie and claiming to be re Asian.
And I thought, oh my God, like, that's kind of triggering for me as a black woman. Who's told that she's not black enough and hardly ever gets cast in theater. Being able to play a black person.
Amy: I mean, yeah. It like, it kind of goes to the conversation that we touched on a little bit about, you know, half and half, or like not feeling like enough, um, that anything is not only a struggle for mixed Asian people.
It's also a struggle for Asian-Americans who are very just American. They, you know, they often we don't speak our native language. Um, we, you know, we eat Americanized versions of our food. We don't necessarily celebrate the holidays in the same way as you know, like I don't celebrate Chinese new years in the way that Chinese people from China celebrate it.
Um, I'm sure because we're American and we've been in America a long time and also it has to be, I think it's also, I don't know if Asian. From Asia, maybe have a resentfulness towards Asian-Americans for this, but. In the Asian immigrant community, like when Asian immigrants came to America, a lot of them just like shed a lot of their Asian-ness in ways where it's like they wanted their kids to be American because they didn't want them to deal with racism or being pinned as foreigners.
And they wanted them to have this, um, you know, for lack of a better term proximity to whiteness. Um, so that's where a lot of the things of like become high achieving in educated and, you know, learn English and don't speak Chinese because we don't want you to have an accent and, um, you know, be a doctor, be a lawyer, be these high things in society that will get you respected as an American, um, and not be seen as a foreigner because, um, you know, even in the Asian representations of Asian-Americans on, in the media, we have this characteristic of always you're still foreign, right?
Like you're still. From this foreign land, I think I sent you that YouTube video. Um, I, again, I should have noted the name of the man who made it, but he's Chinese, but he's been in America for 10 years and he looks at shank Kai, which Sean Chi is a great movie. Loved it. I think everyone should see it.
Probably one of the best Marvel movies. And I'm not saying that just because I'm Asian. No, but
Julia: really it's beautiful.
Amy: It's just beautiful visual. I think best fighting choreography in all of them. I'm sorry. I will stand by that.
Julia: I will stand by that. Um, but what he
Amy: says, basically this man here, he does a video essay on YouTube and his basic thesis is like, Sean cheat is a good movie for Asian representation because they have a lot of really good Chinese culture built into it.
And they do that in a really beautiful way. But at the end of the day, shonky the character who. You know, he comes to America, he's been living there for a really long time. He's being Asian, American, American, and yet he can only fulfill his portfolio potential and be like, who he really is by returning to China and like being Chinese.
So, um, it's kind of perpetuating this, this feeling of like, you know, go back to where you came from or like that's where you belong. Um, and, and yeah, at first glance. Yeah. And at first, you know, I watched it twice in theaters. Uh, I won't lie. We, I saw twice and, um, paid all that money to see it twice. I support them.
I mean, look, it did really great in the box offices, which is amazing, but, um, I like personally didn't. I realize that upon watching it. But once I saw that he explained to this, I was like, oh, you're right. Like, that's so true. Even in crazy rich Asians, you know, you have Rachel Chu's character who her mom like Rachel Chu is first-generation in the movie.
And she feels all these inadequacies about like, not being Chinese enough, um, because she's American and her mom, you know, went through a lot of shit in China and like really wanted her daughter to be, you know, successful in America. Yeah.
Julia: I thought it was interesting in the book, you know, that her mom lives in California, like Palo Alto, ish area, if I remember correctly.
Um, but in the movie they relocate everybody to New York and I thought that was an interesting choice
Amy: because.
Julia: Again, it's kind of forcing this narrative of like, if you're Chinese American, you can only live in certain locations. Like we can't like Palo Alto has, I mean, you're in California too. So, you know, Palo Alto Stanford's there, there's like a very wealthy community there, but then also there's like the other side of Palo Alto.
Um, and I can't fully remember because it's been a while since I brought the books, but like, there's it, just, to me, it felt like I love seeing this woman making her life as a single parent in California, because that's my story, regardless of our, you know, we're ethnically different, but you know, I see her with a grown child who like, she came from nothing in the book and like managed to make a successful life.
And I thought it was interesting, the commentary about like, cause you know, it's very American. Pick yourself up by the Bush drugs and, you know, self-made man, like that's such an American narrative, but in the book. And I think they touched it a little bit on, about it
Amy: in the movie, but not as heavily
Julia: that had no respect.
Like nobody gave a shit that her mom worked hard and was able to take care of herself and be successful in another country. Like Rachel was still trash in their mind because like,
Amy: yeah, you know, well, first of all, to, to comment on like them moving her to ne moving everyone to New York from being in California, that kind of makes me mad partially because I'm from, you know, Sacramento, the bay area, my family's from barrier.
My grandma, my Chinese grandmother was in Chinatown in San Francisco. And I think a lot of, I mean, look, if you want it to be properly representing Asian Americans, um, Asian American history, no shade, but a little shade to like New York Chinatown Asian-American history started in. California. And like the original Chinatown is in San Francisco.
And, um, and there are tons of Asians, especially in the bay area. Um, so, you know, it's like, yeah. Okay. But you Palo Alto, like you said, that's a whole other level of, um, of like, okay lady, what hustle are you on? Can I get on it? Um, but like, I can't live in Palo Alto. Uh, Nope.
Julia: I mean, I don't know. I can barely live in
Amy: California anymore.
I know I'm really, I just moved back here in January from Israel and I'm like, dear Lord, I want to stay with fornia, but I don't know if it's going to be possible, but we're going to try. Right. But yeah, I didn't, I didn't. Yeah. The
Julia: culture of Rachel and Nick are in New York, but Rachel is originally from California, but they remove that.
For the movie. And I just thought that was an interesting creative choice because I don't know, California, New York are so different. And then you add the layer of being yeah, no for sure. American in there too. I think that was a missed opportunity to explore a little bit better.
Amy: Sure. And I also, you know, I mean, it's not, I don't think it's really in the book either, but something that would be our, I would love to see in a movie sometime maybe someone would write about my life.
I don't know, but is, you know, Asian Americans who grow up in places where there are not a lot of other Asians, but also Asian-Americans who grew up. Like I grew up in a place where look, I grew up in Sacramento. It's very diverse. I know you're pretty near here. Super diverse, definitely different than most of America.
Also lots of Asians as far as diversity goes and like being Asian was not. Abnormal to me, I was surrounded by a lot of Asians and I also was surrounded by a lot of mixed people. So I didn't think that being mixed was so hard until I left Sacramento and was like, oh shoot. Like that's not really common.
And people find it to be weird. Yeah.
Julia: I run the hurdle of being fetish sites because I'm mixed. And then, and then also people asking the most ignorant questions and part of me is just like, oh, that's your family. You're cute. But then the other part of me was like, how old are you that you still have to ask that question?
Like, come on, we have the internet in our pocket now.
Amy: I know also, like it's not like there aren't prominent, mixed people out there that you should know about, like hello, Barack Obama. But like, I don't know. People are just so ignorant. I don't know. Well,
Julia: that actually is an interesting, that could be an interesting, that's an interesting conversation because you know, he's built, he's built as the first African-American president and yes.
And he was raised by white people, which is like, okay. It's like, you're negating the fact anyway, we don't have that kind of time for that conversation. But yeah.
Amy: Interesting
Julia: though, like next time we'll talk about being mixed next, next time. But in the case of Henry Golding, like, I mean, people, people are really upset that he was the one cast to be this lead.
And I don't, I don't, I don't know. I'm just kinda like as a mixed person, I'm not mixed with any Asian descent as we've well-established. But as a mixed person coming at it, it just felt like, okay, so you've been making, like, you're still telling us we're not enough where you're still telling us we can't play these roles.
You're still telling us that we're not allowed in, like, you're mad that we're here. Like, that's what it felt like to be.
Amy: Right. Yeah. And I can see it from both sides. Right. Like I am T mixed as you like to call it, which I love, um, I'm teammates and I can see it from the perspective of like, yeah. Okay. So like, because he's mixed, he's not Asian enough to play an Asian character.
And on the other side of that, I can see where this was like a huge movie to represent Chinese people. And the character itself is a full Chinese person. And so it's like, does he look, you know, does he look and pay? I'm doing air quotes. Nobody can see now it's a podcast. Uh, does he quote, unquote look Chinese enough, uh, to represent this particular culture or, or people properly.
I could see where that is an issue, but you know, like. This is, and this can go into a whole other conversation, which we aren't going to get into today of the whole thing of like, who can play different types of people, because acting is acting where you are playing a character, blah, blah, blah, the whole thing.
Um, we can talk about that later, but yeah, I can see it from both sides. Um, but then, you know, we we've moved forward and we have other, we have other full representations of Asian characters out there. Like, you know, we have Sean Chichi, we have, um, Sima Lou. Who's also gorgeous. I know. And has that. And I love the shirtless, like spoiler alert, shirtless scene, where then, you know, Aquafina's character is like, where's your shirt?
Cause it's like, cause we're all thinking, where's your shirt. We're all like, yes. Thank you, Marvel for removing the shirt. I'm sorry to objectify you CW. I think you love it, but I can't speak for you.
Julia: I just love it. When they take, make them take their shirts off. Like thank you. Like I'm with you on that.
Like Marvel, I appreciate you so much because women have had to be naked for so long in Hollywood. I'm not, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying equity equality, man. That's if we have to be naked, you have to be naked. Dammit
Amy: like female fans, you know, want we have needs, you know what? See, what's a word.
I shouldn't say female fans. I should say. You know, fans who enjoy the male body. Yes. Um, you know, hello. Like we're also trying to watch this movie and, you know, we liked that little extra
Are we going to get
Julia: canceled? I don't know. I've been openly objectifying people on this show for awhile though. Go great. Great weeks ago, three was on and she's like Chris Evans or Chris pine. And I was like, America, even call him his name,
but with, with crazy routine to go back to crazy rich Asians when they're on that, like private island, he and his best friend. And I was like, I don't know what they're saying right now. I just
Amy: also Colin, Colin, where has color. And also like why have he's in other things, but, but this.
I'm just like, why aren't you
Julia: guys hiring one? They were so good in the movie, but to like, where are you hiding these people like, stop
Amy: it, stop it. Right. And this is part of the problem, right. That like, okay, so. White white people for a lack, you know, whatever, let's just say, what did it call what it is like white actors can play characters who aren't specified of a certain race as li characters, but other races cannot.
For example, right now we're talking about Asian. So right. It's like the plethora of amazing Asian actors and actresses that were in crazy rich Asians. Um, Why haven't we seen them? Well, it's because they've only played Asian roles or they've been an Asian cinema and they could have been playing lead roles in other films where the race is not specified.
Right. Um, you know, there was like a whole fiasco with, I don't, I mean, you probably heard about it, like with, you know, when, when, um, oh, his name, childish Gambino. Oh, Donald Glover. Yeah. Donald Glover, which was going to be Spiderman. And they're like, yeah. The internet last night, but it's like, yeah, well it's cause it's like, okay, well was Spiderman specified to be a certain race?
Like, why couldn't he be black? I don't know. And like, um, but yeah, it's these kinds of things of like much harder for, you know, for people of different races or ethnicities to get these lead roles. Aren't even, you know, there's no specification of their race in the character. Yeah.
Julia: It's um, like with re with literature and stuff too, are we assuming when they adapt a book to a movie, are we assuming that these characters are going to be white because the author was white?
Like, you know, it falls into that conversation too with hunger games sets. When, when I bring up the most on the show, when Lenny Kravitz was cast as his character, people lost it. And I didn't read hunger games had enough of dystopian novels because I had to read them all in English class, in high school.
So I'm good animal farm, Lord of the flies. I'm good. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, and, but the internet lost it, but my, a friend of mine who had write him was like, he wasn't even, like, it wasn't even specified what this person was in terms of race. So like that argument. Bullshit because he is being Cassie's beautiful, man.
Lenny Kravitz, you don't follow him on Instagram, everyone. You should because
Amy: it is also Jewish. I know. I'm like, he is just beautiful
Julia: anyway. Um, so it just that whole conversation of like, where are we coming from as a society when you're not saying like, this is specifically this type of ethnicity and then casting a person because they've been doing this shit to people all the time.
Like the movie, um, Aloha is that one of the, where Emma Stone's character was supposed to be, um, Because it's based on a true story or something like that.
Amy: And like her character, is that like a straight to DVD type of movie? I never heard, no, it wasn't, it
Julia: wasn't out for very long. Great to Netflix. I love that you asked that because I think they wanted the modern equivalent.
Right? Cause I think they may be like, not buried it, but like people started saying like the murmurs of like Emma's Jones character is actually supposed to be an Asian, like that's an actual Asian character. It takes place in Hawaii. Like why is it this? It played by him.
Amy: And so that's. Yeah. And that's the hypocrisy of it, right?
Because there are characters who are supposed to be Asian. There's also Scarlet Johann's Sidney. And I don't remember what it is. I feel like a bad Asian Scarlett Johannson. His character is played this, you know, H. Definitely it's an anime character, so she's supposed to be Asian and it said they can make, so it's like, okay, so why can you take, you know, an Asian character or a character or a Hispanic character or any of these characters and white wash them and make them a white person so that you can have your big name star.
Why wouldn't you just keep the race of the character and then make someone a big star. And I think at the end of the day, it's about money and that, you know, Scarlett Johannson probably sells a lot more tickets than the first person I can think of right now, which is not a good example. And she would never play that character as Aquafina.
Right. Like, so, um, I think we're S and that's why it's really exciting when things like, you know, um, for those who don't know, Sean, she broke all the box office records and it's huge. And that's amazing. And this was also a debate about the movie Milan, the live action version actually about boycotting it, because the main actress.
She came out in like set a bunch of controversial things about like the Chinese government and the protests in Hong Kong, basically kind of, you know, I don't know exactly what she said, but her, but the main idea was that she was kind of like supporting the Chinese governments, um, you know, oppression basically.
And people were like boycott the movie, but other Asians were like, here's why you shouldn't boycott the movie because when Disney sees that a movie that's a, you know, an Asian movie does not do well in the cinema, they will say, okay, it's not worth our money best in Asian media. And that's like a struggle, right?
Like, oh, okay. So we're going to support this woman. Who's supporting, you know, an evil communist regime. Because we don't want to lose these representation in our American media gray.
Julia: And that's hard because at the end of the day, you are dealing with business people and nobody cares about the art of it.
Nobody cares about the representation of it. These are number crunchers who are trying to make a profit and, you know, get rich, which is
Amy: unfortunate, especially for Disney. Yeah, yeah.
Julia: Yeah. Disney is a whole beast in late 2019, the LA times ran a listicle the 20 best Asian-American films of the last 20 years, which includes crazy Richard.
Rotten tomato ranks the best Asian American movies of all time, which goes as far back as the 1950s, but only includes a total of 68 films. Only 10 of those films listed were before 2000, even though the last 20 years has have given audiences more stories about Asian Americans, there's still a significant lack of representation.
This list includes movies like karate kid, but it also includes movies like the toilet club and Menari, which the book, the toilet club listeners.
Amy: Reddit do it. Wow. Read the book, watch the movie. So good. But many
Julia: of the films from the two thousands I had never heard of before, like they, it felt like, oh, is this an obscure movie?
But then you look at the cast. You're like, no, I know that person's name. Like, what the hell? Like, why isn't this on our radar? So I want to talk about,
Amy: well, I'm curious what qualifies something as an Asian American female, right. Cause karate
Julia: kids on this fucking list.
Amy: Yeah. Which is like, it's Asian-American because Mr.
Miyagi isn't it. But isn't he, well also, is he Asian-American or is he Japanese from Japan? I don't remember, but also I guess, I mean, because. Because then the
Julia: second one second or the third one, they go back
Amy: to Japan. Yeah. And he also like, okay. It's Asian-American because he teaches a part of Asian culture sure.
To American Amy, listen
Julia: to this. So Cobra, hi is Netflix's like reboot, karate kids situation. And so first of all,
Amy: Cobra, Kai is trash. I'm not a fan, but my mom, so my mom loves all cheesy things and she, my mom's a big karate kid fan. So she also likes Cobra guy. But anyway, yeah, I can't, I can't watch
Julia: it. I have to admit something that's really embarrassing.
I totally watch it, but it's garbage and I hate watch it. I hate watch it, but there's an episode where they're like, oh, what's his, what's his name? But Italian kid that moved from New York, they're like, you're culturally appropriating. Cause of all these things. And he's like, oh, I'm not doing that because Mr.
Miyagi, like that was my mentor. And it was like this whole thing. Right.
Amy: I feel like that was their attempt to address. Yeah. I feel like that was them directly probably addressing critics who were saying they're culturally appropriating it. Um, and yeah, that's why, because you said the list includes karate kid, the joy luck club and Menari.
So Minari. Joy luck club, very Asian American, clearly, um, and books. So quality. Yeah. So quality, so great to learn about, um, all Amy tan books, Amy tan, uh, watch. There's like a documentary about her on one, uh, one of the streaming services about her. Incredible. Anyway, I digress, but yeah, karate kid just doesn't fall into the same category for me.
That's why I'm like, what's an Asian-American movie, like a movie that includes at least one Asian American in the main cast, or maybe, I don't
Julia: know. So we got to get into how can Hollywood do better by our friends and family in regards to telling Asian-Americans and Asian descent stories? Because I feel like if you're going to include karate kid on this list,
Amy: We need to have words.
I feel like they were trying to like stuff, the list to have as many as possible maybe. And there just really aren't that many. Yeah. I don't know. And I don't know, I'm looking at the list, uh, but keep going. I'm looking, but I'm just like browsing it. Won't talk to kind of see what they,
Julia: and it makes me sad.
So like when rotten tomatoes list, there's only 68 films. Well, there's hundreds of thousands of films in existence and only 68 of them like considered Asian American best, but it's the best. So. I wonder if anyone's ever compiled like a full, complete list of all movies that include an Asian American narrative and then how large that list is in comparison to like
Amy: Hollywood as a whole.
Yeah. Because I'm seeing some of the movies on this list. Cause there's also things like, okay, right. So we're, we've been mostly talking about like, um, you know, Chinese, Chinese representation to be fair. And, um, this is like a whole issue in, on itself in a mirror like Chinese and Asian are synonymous with each other, which is wrong because there's the full spectrum of age.
Um, so in that case, you know, there's also things like, okay, Bollywood, like Bollywood is pretty popular with certain people and I think it becomes more increasingly popular. Um, but that's like another thing, right? Like, okay, does that count? I guess that's Asian, but not Asian American because it's largely, you know, actually Indian from India.
Um, but yeah, like where do they make that distinction and the big.
Julia: Yeah. And the big sick is one of, I think is on the best Asian American movies of all time from rotten tomato. I think it's on that list, which is a great movie. Um, but Kumal, I forget his last name Nanjiani.
Amy: Yes. He, he wrote how to pronounce it.
I'm not a hundred
Julia: percent sure either he wrote it and he stars in it and he's so good in it. Yeah. And it's just, it's I guess it falls under that category of, Hey, he's just a brown guy living in America who is happens to be this descent. Um, so it's which I love to the big six so much,
Amy: but I'm a sucker for a love story.
It's a, it's a darker romcom, but it is still, it's still some calm sweetness I would love I'm that's also like, will you be my, maybe a romcom with two Asian characters written by Asians who, you know, they're Asian American, but yeah, so there are some, I think, you know, moving forward as far as Asian American representation goes is trying, and obviously it's hard, but trying to really pay homage to the spectrum of what it is to be Asian American and.
That is hard because like we said, there's Asians from all across the spectrum of Southeast Asia versus east Asia versus, you know, I mean, hello China within China, which is a huge country with how many different types of people and, you know, Chinese people have their own sub ethnic groups, whatever, you know, there's a point where it's like, don't get so nitty-gritty, but also there is a common, there are certain threads that are common Asian American experiences or stories.
And for me, you know, being a very American on the more American side of that spectrum, I think seeing more characters who are American first and Asian second, not because I want to diminish Asian-ness or anyone's Asian-ness, but like a lot of Asians. Are many generations down or like that we don't go around being like, will this thing I do.
I saw this, this tweet from similar who's like, what is something that people always misconstrue about Asians based on like Asian characters. He's like, we are not as concerned with honor, as you think with like honors our family, as you think, it's not like I go around thinking everything I do, like, will this bring honors to my family?
And like, you know, that's a pretty big thing in a lot of Asian characters that they like emphasize. Cause they want to make them Asian. And like, I thought it was funny cause I was like, yeah, dude, like I totally relate. Um, you know, so seeing more characters like, um, Glenn from the walking dead, who's just an Asian guy from Atlanta.
And so he is Asian and. They joke about it a couple of times to be like the Korean guy. And they're like, you mean Glen, um,
Julia: forced people into, um, situations about their racial prejudice,
Amy: right? Yeah. To just be like, yeah, he's just a guy who happens to be, you know, he, you know, he's just like everyone else or, um, you know, the big sick character or there's like, you know, never another thing is never have I ever, um, you know, Which is it, which I love because I watched that show.
And I, so also, you know, there's also characters like, um, you know, Mindy Lahiri from Mindy Kaylin's show, project fun fact. My dog is named Mindy after Minnie Kayleen because I love her because I would always be like, oh really? Okay. So yeah, like I kind of fell off first when I moved to Israel about like a lot of things, but yeah, so characters like her where like, you know, immediately here he is, um, you know, she's a successful independent woman, um, with everyday struggles that I relate to her as like, as a, as a female, but she's also, you know, I'm watching an Indian woman on TV, like be in charge of the whole thing.
So that's like exciting. I think the spectrum is going to be hard and it's especially hard when there's not a lot, when there's a low volume of Asian American. Media, how are you going to cover the spectrum? Right. So obviously we are so that we can cover the full spectrum. Yes.
Julia: I totally relate to that in the sense that I have this constant struggle with representation of the black community on, in media, because it's not all hip hop and rap and basketball players and you know, that's not it, but I feel like that's a lot of what we see and, or like music people, you know what I mean?
There's just a lot, there's so much more that can be explored and it's hard when you don't fall into what you see in the pop culture. Representation one, because you're mixed and two, because the mix that you are doesn't even fall into the stereotype that
Amy: exists that's important because like you said, like no Asians or black people, or even white people, no one is a monolith.
Right. And so that's where it's like, I think, I think one of the big ways that this will be remedied in media as far as like representing, or just having a proper, I don't know another word besides the representation of minorities as a whole is instead of always making, you know, we don't need to always make more Asian American films.
I mean, we should, but part of that also is going to be, you know, things like we spoke about where it's like casting an Asian as the lead role. In a regular ass movie that isn't necessarily supposed to be specifically Asian and, and letting that character just be that character and not feel the need to like build in, you know, Asian background, like S like the number of characters that are main characters played by white people, like character development or background about them rarely covers like their origin story, right?
Like where the family came from. It's just not important. Nobody cares. But if you cast someone, I think that part of it is like, if you cast someone as like, you know, if you cast a minority in one of those roles, then they think like, oh, well, now we need to rewrite the character to like, include how they.
You know, became this person. If they, or if they're black, it's like, no, you don't, they're just a human. And like, they can be ever, like, I don't get it. We don't need to hear, like, we don't need to help their ancestry. Like just let them be a secret agent. I don't know. It's
Julia: so it's interesting. Says you're talking about that.
I'm thinking again, back to the morning show, there's a character on there and
Amy: they need to watch
Julia: the show. She's only it's, you know, it's there's moments where I'm just like, like, I like her yesterday's episode. I'm just like, listen, Jennifer Aniston, toxic human on this show. I can't with this bitch. But, um, she, so there's this new character in season two.
And I had a little bit of issues with season one because of, they had a lot of like characters of color who literally had very little screen time and then like would have storylines and you kind of were like, wait, what's going on with their storyline. And now this big thing has changed and what's happening.
And it was just kind of frustrating. Um, But her name on the show.
Amy: Are you trying to look for the actress's name or the character's name? Both because
Julia: it's escaping because the characters name, last name on the show is park. And that's the only thing I can remember. I hate that readily Stella buck, Gretta Lee play Stella buck on the morning show and the whole, the first couple of episodes.
She's just like this bad-ass she's like a news. She's the news oversees the news division of the, the network. She's just very, like, she's just a ass. And then in the episode that aired on March on March, listen, it's October
Amy: episode that
Julia: aired on October 15th. So they're now they're starting to deal with, at this point in the series they're starting coronavirus is coming in, you know, cause it's a new show.
So they're trying to bring it in and some fucking asshole she's walking to get into her chauffeured car, leaving from the network. And some fucking asshole is like saying all these horrible things to her about
Amy: horrible things that have
Julia: been said about, you know, CV 19. Yeah. And it just, she was like, she was kind of shook and I really appreciate that.
Like they showed her, she was very like solid and her delivery back to this dumb shit. But then when she got in the car, she was just like, like it rattled her and you felt that rattle with her. And she did that so well, but literally. It's like Herbie in my mind and I could be wrong because I'm not Asian.
It didn't feel like they brought this character and it made her Asian and now she's Asian. It was like, they brought the strong young woman in to play this character. And now they're sort of weaving in certain aspects about being an Asian woman in power. Um, and so that, I think the morning show is getting right.
There's other things that I think they're not getting.
Right.
Amy: Yeah. I love that. I love that. I think that's, you know, that sounds like kind of the formula, right. That I'm looking for where it's like, okay, we're not ignoring that this person is Asian, but like we're not defining them by their Asian-ness.
They're a full bodied character on their own, in their own. Right. As a woman, as a human, as, you know, a new, whatever, she is a newscaster person she's
Julia: oh, yeah. News or something like that. She say, yes. She's like making all the big time decisions. And I think she's like 32 or 33, like the characters young.
And I love that because we I've never, I haven't, I've never seen that before. Okay.
Amy: I mean, yeah. So like, I don't know if you've watched the chair. I haven't yet, but I love Sandra. Oh. So I mean, yeah. I love Sandra. Oh. Um, I've only watched a few episodes cause I'm not sure how I feel about it yet, but I would be really interested to hear what you have to say because she's also an Asian American woman, character who, and the show is very much.
Around the fact that she's like an, a woman who is in this position as the chair of this department at the university and her being Asian is definitely a part of it, but I haven't decided yet if it is this whole thing of like, she has to be super Asian or if they're properly kind of just inserting Asian-ness into her character, I'm not sure yet.
So, um, yeah, people can watch and, you know, tell Julia right to the podcast or whatever, and to your thoughts,
Julia: tell me about it. Okay. I'm curious because I'm curious, cause like my issue with the more about stuff for other people, cause my issue with the morning show season one was this character Daniel, and he's literally the only black guy on the show.
Um, he's also gay. And so, you know, a lot of the stuff that they sorta gave us for him was really interesting, but then they dropped the ball and it was really hard for me cause it was just like. I mean, CA like that's a ho they centered it so much around like the white characters who were like super public facing to the point where you're just like, we get a no, like you gave us this really potentially juicy storyline for Daniel.
And then you, then you gave us nothing. And then in season two, they're trying to course correct for him. And I'm, again, I'm struggling with them because the way they're, course-correcting kind of feels like they heard the internet reaction to
Amy: his,
Julia: and then they're not, they're not like, it doesn't feel like they're in it.
It doesn't feel like they're sincere.
Amy: It's not genuine. Yeah. You're like, I know that you manufactured this because people got pissed at you, but it feels like.
Julia: And it's interesting because they, I feel like they're handling Stella so well, but then they can't, they're fumbling with Daniel. So it's interesting how even that works.
And I wonder what the writer's room looks like and what the breakdown of the writer's room looks like, because
Amy: yes, that's also such a huge thing. Um, you know, getting excited about that's. Why, like, you know, in this past season, You know, award season, um, you know, things like Asian, um, directors or writers getting wards, not only actors and actresses, because as much as we see people in the front, it's like, okay, well, who makes those decisions?
Um, and I happened to know, sorry, like my boyfriend and I are on this walking dead kick because he's obsessed. And now
Julia: I'm here
Amy: for all the things lost, but, but in the walking dead there's one of the writers is, um, I don't know who all the writers are, but one particular as an Asian woman and an Asian American woman, and they have this other, follow-up showed the talking dead and sometimes we'll have writers on there.
And so she comes in and she talks. And like, obviously I see her as an Asian woman being a writer on a show. And, um, but it's not about her being, you know, like she's not writing an Asian show. She writes the walking dead. And, um, that's also really an exciting thing, you know, as far as. Not only in front of the screen, but like filmmakers of different colors and filmmakers, not only being allowed to direct or write about, you know, like for black filmmakers to only make black films or for, you know, like, okay, Ryan Coogler is that has been black Panther, what kind of forever is black Panther, which is like, yeah.
Which is like, amazing. Yes, you definitely should have a black, you know, a black man or a black person, you know, doing this movie, but also like, can he make, you know, like he's a great filmmaker, like he should be making. Yeah, exactly. Um, cause plenty of non black or Asian people have been telling black and Asian stories.
So I just tell
Julia: you, when I found out that memoirs to geisha was written by a white guy, I was like,
Amy: well, why didn't why didn't like, I didn't know. I didn't consciously, like I didn't consciously know that, but. I'm not surprised. And I had, you know, this like books is a whole other topic, but I actually family who pointed this out to me, not personally, like she wrote about it.
And she said something about, you know, like I try to read, I'm trying to read more books by people of color, or like, if it's about a certain culture or thing that it's written by someone from that culture, a thing instead of a white person, because, you know, in high school we read all the books by all the white people.
So now I really try to do that. And it's funny because my grandmother, God bless her. Um, she and I talk a lot about books and she was telling me about some books. She was reading that are about these women in Africa, but it's written by like a white guy from England or something. Xander
Julia: McCall. Was it Alexander McCall, the secret detective.
Amy: Yes. Yes, exactly. So she's like great books, amazing books. I think it's made into a show. And I said, that sounds really fun, grandma. But like right now, I'm really trying to focus my time on reading books. Um, you know, if they're about a certain group of people that they're written by someone from that group of people and my grandma is not look, she lives in Berkeley.
So that should tell you a lot about like, she's more aware about these kinds of issues than others, but she was just like, oh, Amy, like fine, you're missing out on a good book and like this whole, and like, why do you have to make it about that? And I'm like, I didn't make it about that. I just don't read that fast.
And so I'm going to focus on reading these books that are stories told by their own.
Julia: That was a huge part of my grad school. Uh, study was like the lack of representation because every semester in grad in graduate school, graduate school, every semester I'm working on my creative writing degree in graduate school, every fucking semester, a required reading, unless it was a specialized class.
Like, um, I think at this school they called it black lit. Black literary tradition or some shit like that. It's called something different at every school I've been to basically African-American. Um, and like, or like women's lit or like, you know, every, unless it's a specialized
Amy: class, it's all
Julia: white dudes.
And then maybe, and then maybe they'll throw in like my Angelou or Jane Austin, and I'm over here. Like, I can't, like, I just paid you all a lot of money and this is the shit you're giving me. Like, I read this stuff in undergrad stuff in advanced, like honors English in high school, like, come on. I was so pissed.
So now it's my mission in life to like, create courses that do the same thing, help you achieve the same thing, which is that, you know, deeper thinking and whatever, when it comes to literature, but we're doing it with texts that aren't written by white men.
Amy: Yeah. I'm really, um, I'm currently reading minor feelings by.
Um, minor feelings by Cathy park, Hong, which I have been waiting to read this book because it's, I've been on the wait list at the library for like, I was like 130 eighth on the list. Um, so definitely I, especially as a creative writer, you should read it. Um, cause she's a poet originally, like, or by trade or whatever.
Um, and she speaks to this. She speaks, first of all, she speaks a lot about race in general and like covers things like the black experience and whatever. And um, but one thing that she specifically talks about is, you know, she, she teaches also creative writing and, um, she talks about that, like, you know, Asian stories and also just minority stories in general or always having, they required to be the required to be told.
Um, Our response to white people, or like for white people to be able to understand an Asian experience or a black experience or an immigrant experience. And it's like, well, why can't I just write about like being an Asian person, but not in these contexts? And I think it's, yeah. Like, I mean, look, everything we're talking about is full circle.
Right? It's in, if it's in the written, the written media, you know, it's in the onscreen media and then that cycles into things like what kind of Barbies are we gonna make for kids? And yeah, it's just, it's all connected. It really
Julia: is. And the importance of like the importance of. Being able to tell our own stories.
I mean, we could totally go off, which on theirs, there was a lot of controversy. The year American dirt was rented, was released from the Latin X community. And I come like, I'm not even though I misidentified as being Mexican all the time. You're there. Not
Amy: necessarily mildly enough. Me too. Oh my gosh. So like, it's just a mind blowing the weirdest.
Julia: Right. Um, but I understand like that plight of like, Hey, like you're you watch it? I don't know. That's a whole other segment that we could do. It's really hard to watch. Authors and creatives of color, trying so hard to make it and creating really amazing work by us for us. And then they're not given the respect or the courtesy or somebody steals elements of it and makes millions of dollars off of it.
It's just, it blows my mind that it's still happening in 2021. Like that shit sounds like it should be happening like a hundred plus years ago, but it's not. And it's heartbreaking. And I think, yeah, the part of grad school that really broke my heart, I started grad school in 2016. I finished in 2019. And we're still like the decolonize, your, um, bookshelf movement.
Didn't start last year. It's been a movement for a while. And so for me to be in grad school and that's what they're pedaling, it was just like, Come on guys, like let's move forward. We've got like all, we've just got so much work to do still, and it's exhausting, but we're here, we're here.
Amy: Right. Right. And then, and I mean, and like, yeah, we can talk about this forever, but like, yeah.
Okay. And then, you know, things like the decolonize, your bookshelf movement, it's like, oh, because that's like a niche movement that like only what, I guess only people of color are doing it because they're tired of reading books from white people about themselves, but it's like, no, it should be a movement in academia.
Right. Where you're going to start teaching people, these books, or like reading them. But I guess it's like, oh, then you're probably going to have to hire all new. Uh, faculty, because all of your faculty are not people of color are not well-versed in literature by people of color and oops. Okay. But yeah.
Um, I love how in this podcast we have just overturned the entire film industry, um, the literature, you know, uh, and academia as well. So yes, we're coming for all of them.
Julia: Cause it's so important. Like I had my friend Cheyenne talking about never have I ever, and I told her, cause she's literally my only Indian friend.
We also live in a community that's super, predominantly white. Um, and I told her, I was like, I appreciate the show so much because I learned it was like a starting point of understanding that cause you know, they show Indian characters all the time. Indian characters have to have an accent, like they're not allowed to be non accented characters.
Again, I don't understand that kind of stuff. So for that show to come out and be in same with reading crazy rotations, like I didn't realize how diverse Asia really and truly is. Sure. Crazy rich Asians has its issues and there's a lot of criticism about it, but it sparked enough within me to be like, I need to read more.
I need to do better because I didn't learn this shit in school. It is infuriating to grow up and get into adulthood. And now realizing like the diversity and the differences and what exists within the land mass that is Asia. Like that's like help what it blows my mind. That was. And it just blows my mind.
It just blows my mind. And so this collective lumping together that happens is a disservice to everyone. But especially to the people who are descendant of Asian countries and cultures, like that's just not okay. That's where the roots come from, that it informs some of their decisions. And then to just kind of lump them all together and be like, you're Asian just seems so unfair
Amy: also on that note, just the last note.
And that's so important also on the topic of that we've discussed of othering, right? Like Asian culture. Or things about Asians. I think it's, it'll be easier for people to kind of see them as less foreign one by knowing about them, but also like we're all humans at the end of the day. Um, and I think that's also a really important thing.
Just about representation in general, you,
Julia: yes. Ah, Amy, I am so glad that you are willing to speak about these things, you know, being Jewish on your, you know, figure out being Jewish, speak up, being Asian and putting it out there publicly on your Instagram. So people like me can learn more and sort of dive a little bit deeper into what it is that you're speaking.
And then it challenges me to reevaluate what I've been ingrained to believe or to think. And I think that's so important and that's part of the moving forward and better accepting all of us. I think it creates a dialogue. It creates a dialogue and gives us language to those who know how they're feeling, but maybe have unsure how to express it in words.
And I just, I just. Like I said offline before we started recording, I was like, every time I'm like, this is, she just like taught a lesson. What's her Venmo. Like I need to pay
Amy: the
key.
Julia: Everyone Venmo me. Yes. Yes. Like it's a, that's not a lot of people are making the effort and time to do that kind of work. And I think we need to respect and honor those who do
Amy: thank you.
Julia: Can you remind everyone where they can find you if they want to keep up with you
Amy: online? Sure. Um, the best place to find me is on Instagram.
Slide into my idea, memes me whatever you want. Um, that's at the Amy Albertson, the a M Y a L B E R T S O N. Um, and Julia, it's been such a pleasure. I know we can always talk for hours and hours. Um, I love the podcast. I listen to it pretty often these days, I'm just like really excited that we had this conversation and I can't wait to have more of
Julia: them.
I'm excited too. And I would love to have you back to talk about Jewish representation in the media. I think
Amy: that's an also related to it conversation, super important, super important, and
Julia: friends. I will link all of Amy socials so that way you can hop on and learn along with me. As always you can find us in between episodes on Instagram at pop culture makes me jealous.
And if you happen to enjoy this episode, drop us a review either on your podcast, listening service or on Instagram, we want to connect with you. Let's continue this conversation outside of this room. Anyway. Thanks for tuning in y'all until next time.
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