Jess Mariano We Love You | 21
Show Notes:
Join host Julia Washington and she discusses her love of her favorite Rory Gilmore boyfriend Jess Mariano, with guest Brianna Sexton.
Let's Get Social:
The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
The Guest: Brianna Sexton
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, it's pop culture makes me jealous. And I'm your host, Julia. And on today's show. Brianna Sexton of the cup of coffee podcast is here and we're talking about Jess Mariano.
Jess Mariano is boyfriend number two of Rory Gilmore on the cultural phenomenon that is Gilmore girls. He is played by Milo Ventimiglia and was first introduced to Gilmore girls and season two episode five. But before we dive into our topic, let me introduce you to our guest. Brianna Sexton is a dog mom podcast.
Email marketer and T and French fry. Officiant auto. When not working, you can find her dancing around the kitchen while cooking, making new tea blends, or enjoying the Washington rain with tea and a book in hand and a puppet her feet. Welcome to the show, Brianna.
Thank
Brianna: you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
I'm
Julia: excited to hear it. And also, um, I love this fun fact you shared with me about being, um, a competitive and performance ballroom dancing.
Brianna: Yeah. Yeah. I've been dancing for, oh my goodness. Um, I got introduced through a program at the YMCAs in 2006. And I did in college and I had my first performance my sophomore year, and I fell in love with just dancing and choreographing, choreographed a few weddings, um, and help taught that and teach classes for kids.
And yeah, it's, that is my therapy. Yeah, for sure.
Julia: I love that all that makes me so happy. I feel like dance fixes everything. So it makes me so happy when like someone actively pursues dancing. So just so for listeners, Brianna and I sort of came in contact with each other because I was, we were in a group together on.
And I was a guest on her show and we just connected. And after that, after we were done recording, it was like, um, we have a shared love for this. You should be on my show and he or she is. I love collecting new people.
Brianna: Yeah. It's absolutely fun. I love how the internet makes the world smaller. I
Julia: know. Okay.
So before we dive into our discussion friends, I'm going to give you a quick summary of the Jess Mariano. Gilmore girls saga. It's a couple minutes long, so bear with us, but it's going to be worth it. I promise. Jess Mariano is Luke Dean's nephew on that hit show. We all love that Gilmore girls, which ran for seven seasons and it stars Lauren Graham as Lorelei Gilmore, and Alexis Bledel as worry Kilmer, the mother daughter duo for whom the show is named aired on the WB and concurrently be watched on Netflix.
In season two, episode five, titled naked, Nora slash Sid and Nancy. Luke receives a call from his sister. She's clearly in a panic and asks her brother to take on her 17 year old son, Luke agrees and efforts to make it more welcoming for the nephew. Laura line bites, Luke, and just over for dinner or just meets Rory, thus sparking a new conflict and stars.
Rory still believes she's madly in love with Dean, but over the last 25 episodes, we have watched the Rory and Dean saga. And for me personally, it was a little painful as a bookish type, curious about the world and full of ambition. Dean's cranky attitude toward about Rory's. Irritated and an article written by Amy Macklin titled the moment everyone fell in love with Jess.
She argues that this moment took place in justice. Very first episode, the scene where he and Rory are standing in Roy's room and he picks up howl by Alan Ginsburg. It's in that moment. The viewer can see that Rory and Jess are going to come together often and justice going to make Rory feel things.
Dean doesn't he's brooding and mysterious, but really he's just a kid looking to fit in and be loved though. He won't make it easy for anyone who treats. For me at the time, the show aired on the WB, I was in high school, they would have been my peers. And I think that's why I completely and totally favored Jess over Dean Dean was a square and came off as kind of a bully at times.
And he did. Read. And for me, that's a red flag. Like if you're not a reader, we've got a problem. Brianna, Brianna feels my pain. She's also a reader
by the end of season two, Rory and Dean have started to grow apart. In my opinion, this is natural. When each person is on a different path in life, Dean becomes worried about Ann a bit clingy. By this point, justice funky and out of high school, which is ridiculous. Considering how focused he is when it comes to his reading and learning about non-school subjects.
In season two episode 19, teach me tonight, teach Luke asks Rory to tutor. Jess, Laura lies against it. And Rory agrees regardless because she's a good kid. Rory and Jess are at Luke's diner and decided to get ice cream. Later we learned the pair were in a car accident and justice sent back to New York worry who has rarely done anything wild or bad in her entire 17 years is now unsure for relationship with Dean.
And over the next few episodes, the audience sees her grappling with the events of the actual. Her emotions about Jess and figuring out what her next move for the future should be. This season two finale ends with Jess and Rory kissing and secret, which becomes even more complicated when Rory asks Jess not to say anything about the kiss.
Season three opens with Rory being conflicted. Dean has written her quite a lot of letters while she is in Washington, DC. We realized she hasn't made any. To reach out to Jess. And when Rory returns to the hollow, she's brought back into reality. When she realizes Jess has replaced her with a bimbo bottle, blonde whose name I can never remember.
I think it's. I think so. I think so it starts with an S it starts with an S I mean, we're not meant to remember her name, right? Like, that's not the point, but in episode seven, titled they shoot Gilmores don't they Dean fed up with his girlfriend's confusion. Cruelly breaks up with Rory in front of the whole town just later finds Rory confirming its officials so he can break it off with the other girl.
It is now clear that Jess has been antagonizing Rory and Dean to the brink of break on purpose and that's, and that this other girl was just part of the. By the end of episode eight, Rory and Jess finally have that long anticipated kiss, making them officially a couple over the course of season three, just as life becomes less idealic while Rory's moves right on track to an.
Education by the end of season three justice left telling no one in search of his father. Season four, we find Rory as a freshman in college, living her best freshmen life. Jess is still nowhere to be seen or heard from by the end of season four, just as back Dina's back. And Rory's right back in the middle of season two with her love triangle and feelings though this time she chooses Dean who is now married to a woman named Lindsay.
In the season five opener, justice gone, and we did not see him again until season six, episode eight, where he finds Rory a Yale dropout by now offscreen just appears to be doing well. Despite his high school dropout status, he's published a book he's living in Philly. And he seems more settled, less angry.
He comes back again. A few episodes later in episode 18, when Rory accepts an invitation to visit his publishing house opening. Once again, this is horrible timing for our fair couple as by now, Rory is with local. Fast forward to 2016 and we find Rory and Jess in the Gilmore girls a year in the life. And it's clear Rory and Jess still have young unresolved, hopeless romantic feelings for each other.
That due to complicated variables still have gone unexciting. Okay, now that that's out of the way let's get into our just Mariano appreciation discussion. There is no way to bring up Jess Mariano without the question of which Rory boyfriend was best. And since this is adjust Mariano appreciation episode, we clearly have a bias.
So let's talk about it. Why is Jess your favorite boyfriend of the Rory Gilmore boyfriends?
Brianna: Well, I think that he's, he's the boyfriend that I wanted.
Like I, so here's my thing with all three of them. Um, Dean is he's that first boyfriend, right. Where you're just trying to figure out and you're just like, everyone has a boyfriend, so I need a boyfriend. And if I feel the butterflies, then it must be, Jess comes along and just is. Basically a foil character to write, like they have their differences surface level, but there's this.
Intellectual connection. There's this deeper knowing between the two of them that is so tangible. And then Logan just gets on my nerves. Oh my goodness. And he's the same character that he plays in everything. So that doesn't help either
Julia: Matt Zu, CRE,
Brianna: but for me, he is so. And tied, what is Rory and his quest to not be what he's forced to be?
I think he projects that onto Rory and like brings out the worst in her. And like, as she's getting in trouble and getting arrested and drinking and like all these things, I feel like that. Her moving so far out of what she is trying to be with him. And I think even in that episode, um, what was it? Season three, whichever one were where they went to the publishing where she went to the publishing.
It, it doesn't make sense. I don't know why, but I love him even though like I get it. I've been in a relationship that was not healthy for me. But I stayed in it longer than I should have because I'm like, I still love him, you know? Um, but I think that Jess was there on a level of knowing that was so much deeper than just like the cute, pretty boyfriend or like the rich angsty.
What was grandma's name? Grandma would've loved Emily Gilmore, Emily, Emily approved red, Yale.
Julia: Well-bred they said that a lot.
Brianna: Yeah. I think that's what it is. Like he was so on her level and then just being like a super nerd and reader and not liking the small talk as a person. I'm like, he's an Aquarius, like.
So much there, right there. Yes. So just as, just as my favorite, just because he is, he's a well-developed character, he's not one side or the other. And I think the biggest thing, yes, you
Julia: totally get that. He's multiple that he is. Not a flat character because Rory calls them out. And one of the episodes she's like, answer me this, you can make words, right.
You know how to make a conversation, right. Like you and I have great conversations. Why is it when my mom shows up, you go monosyllabic. Like, why don't, you know how to make words? He's like, I don't know. I just don't feel like it. And I felt, I felt like that was such a great example of showing how he's in this sort of strange place.
Not just stars hollow, but too. You know, his, whatever, whatever we think of Liz, the character, like that's gotta be hard to be 17 and shipped off somewhere that is completely unfamiliar to you. Like what, what, like, how does, that's why you don't even mean? Like, so he's probably just ends to go from a big city, like New York city to stars hollow.
He's allowed to be angry because. Stars hollow special.
Brianna: Yeah. But like your mom just kind of like your mom basically says, like, I can't deal with you go somewhere else. Yeah. Um, to have like that one person that's supposed to be on your team, just kind of like, let you go and then be in a smaller place where that is stigmatized.
Julia: Yes. Yes. And what's interesting is the difference between. Lorelei and Liz, like, I kind of feel like Justin Rory have a lot in common because they both have a single parent and it's the female parent that the it's the maternal parent they live with. But Laura lies more grounded than Liz ever was. And so I feel like that's another like, layer that they relayed on, but we don't, but it's not.
A huge part of their storyline together. Right? Like it's something that you just kind of put together and like, oh yeah, they're both single parents. And I think there's something about like, Ooh, do you remember the episode where she Dean and Rory are at the book sale? And like, Dean's like pissed because it's been four hours and he's just sitting on the stairs, just cranky as all get out because he's like, we've been here river.
And then Gypsy's like, did you see that. The astrology section or the astronomy section over there. And she's like, what? And he's like, go look like he's just so like unsupportive about her book. Love. And that really made me angry. Like, no, you don't make her feel bad that she wants to look through a book, sell for five hours.
Like that's not okay. Um, but I feel like if that had been just, he would have been right there with her picking through books with her making recommendations or, you know, whatever. And like, there's something very romantic about having being a reader and then dating somebody. Who's also a reader because then they get it.
Like you're not having to justify. Y you devote time and energy to this activity. Yeah. And I think,
Brianna: I feel like it's a love language, right? Like having books and explaining that. So even if Dean didn't understand it, Because there's, there's a point. And I think all of them say it at different parts where they're like, this is boring.
Like, I don't want to do this. Like, but they all do it in different things. So like with Dean it's like books, this is boring. I want to go with Jess it's parties. He's like, I'm bored. I don't want to go. And then with Logan, like anything, that's not drinking, like
Julia: anything that doesn't involve him. Right.
Brianna: I don't want to do this anymore.
And brace is like, but I do. Yeah. So I think that there's there's that in different themes, but like, if Dean was just like, go, like, I'll be right here when you're, when you're done, that would be entirely different than him just being like, oh my God, another book, another hour, another, um, Yeah, but I could see how that's frustrating on his part to not knowing how to communicate with her in that way.
Julia: Mm, good point. Yeah. Okay. I need to be kinder cause that would, I would be the girlfriend. Who'd be like, I'm sorry. You knew what you signed up for. Link you should know better. I literally buy books weekly.
Brianna: I just got two today. Oh,
Julia: I love that. I agree. I think they definitely fit better on an intellectual level too.
I think. And I think that's largely in part because he's also a reader, so he's using his brain in a critical way and there really is something that's special about that kind of bond. I get told a lot. I have a really good friend. Who's always cry too. When like, things don't work out with relationships and like online dating and stuff.
And she's like, or if I'm excited about somebody and then it ends, she'll be like, well, why do you think it ended? I'm like, I, you know, I just she's like, because you got bored because they can't keep up with your conversations because they don't read because they're not challenging you on an intellectual level.
And I was like, I mean, fair.
Brianna: I've had, I still had that relationship. Like I think there was one guy and like he was the chef. So like, food is my love language. Like if you feed me, we are best friends for life, like just to start. Um, and so he was like taking me to this places and like painting. I love painting.
I'm like, I'm an artist, like. I just, I have to create with my hands, whether it's food or tea or whatever. So he took me to all these places, but we would have conversations and. He's like, you make me feel really dumb and I'm like, this is this, uh, this I'm sorry, like you're great. And you could make me gain like 20 pounds.
Like I'm, I'm okay with that. But like, uh, sorry,
Julia: this isn't going to work after all. I'm sorry, sir. Thank you for trying,
Brianna: but I'm gonna, like, I will hardcore personality type me as an Aquarius. I don't do small talk. Like I can't so nice weather we're having, I'm like, can you tell me your deepest, darkest fears and why, why you have the relationship with your family that you do show up in your life?
Oh
Julia: my gosh. And I think even then just would be like, no, I'm not answering those questions, but he would definitely engage in a conversation with you more than, you know,
Brianna: We could relate it to, to Tolstoy or just stay up ski. It's like, that's, that's totally fine. Like I can, I can have that conversation. And I loved, I loved how, um, in that first episode, no, it wasn't that first episode.
Yeah, it was as season two, episode five when he called or when. Worry called him Dodger. Yes. Like that's a whole language in itself to be able to, cause he was like Dodger. I'm like ha Oliver twist. Um, and then it took him a second and then I was like, that is such a great parallel. Like there are a few things I could see differently, but for the most part, like I could see that.
And so that, that language that they have. Fantastic.
Julia: Ah, and I kinda want that, like, I think that watching that and watching them sort of have that inside conversation made me want it because it was just so I dunno, it was kind of romantic to see it going on and no one really, no one else really knows what you're talking about unless you, they also know, but it stars hollow.
It only knows, you know,
Brianna: you know what it reminds me of tell me. So their entire relationship is so Jane Austin, just like the miss that Mr. Darcy, dark and brooding. That's exactly what I saw. I just like I, Mr. Rochester, like all of the Austin guys that these ladies are attracted to, like, they have that same, not bad boy characteristic, but like this misunderstood story that nobody talks about.
And it's uncovered only through having this other person there at the center of the story to discover.
Julia: Yeah. Oh, that's a really good point. And that's exactly Rory and Jess, that's a great point because she does get into his heart. She does get to the core of things like. She does pull things out of him that no one else can not even Luke, like no one can pull these things out of him and here she is, and here they are.
And you're just, you see the vulnerabilities in him and you're just like, God it's. So your one year beautiful jazz Mariano, my 11 to Amelia gorgeous man. And then to see him sort of melt around her, ah, who does a want that? He wrote a book, he wrote a book.
Brianna: And thanked her for, it said done. This is not for you.
Julia: Who doesn't want that? I was hoping that in the year in a life they would finally get together, but we all know how that turned out. Or if you haven't watched it, people listening, if you haven't watched it, then you don't know how that turns out. But I'm gonna tell you right now, it's not Jessen Rory.
It makes me. I would argue that Jess is Rory in some ways, because if his mother, I think I said this already, if Liz was more grounded himself, he might've also had a fighting chance to be in the IB educated world. I really think he could have handled it. I don't know if he would appreciate it. Maybe he's more of like an NYU type of guy, but I definitely think that he could have held his own on a, on an academic level for sure.
Brianna: Yeah, I like, I will go back to the, the foil. Like I believe that they are foil characters of each other, which is also why they work together so well, that one difference is, is the reason that they went on. Such different paths, but they had this same realizations just at different times. Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: You did say that earlier.
I'm sorry. I am like, my brain is fried, apparently. It's
Brianna: okay. I can probably pull out like seven different foils. Cause I'm like Luke and Jess are so alike. Mike Murray and Jess verses Luke and Laura lie are very parallel in there. And their situations and their relationships as well. Um, but I think Luke's, and Loreleis ended a little bit more cohesively to the viewership than.
Worrying Jess, we could talk about Joey and Phoebe and how that didn't work out either. We were all, we're all written for it, but it happened
Julia: in 2016. We were all a flutter about the new edition of the Gilmore girls universe, pop sugar, dropped a slide show titled why Jason. Undeniably Rory's best love interest.
And number six on this list is stolen. Glances that made you melt. And you know what? Becky Chrish Kirsch, Becky Kirsch, I think is how you say her name. You're not wrong. She doesn't listen to this podcast. Mama tell her she's 100%, right? I always thought Jess was a better suited match for worry on an intellectual.
As we just got done discussing, but the bad boys style was just a bad setup for all of us in the real world, because most bad boys were exactly that bad, no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Whereas just had multiple redeeming qualities that he really only showed to Rory. What are some of justice redeeming qualities that sort of counteracted his bad boys style in your opinion?
I
Brianna: think the biggest one is. His awareness and that even when he was hurt, his intention was never to hurt, worry. Like he held in his hurt and like everything he did, like. He made her cry, like when they were at the party. And she's like, I don't know what I did. And like storms out of the room. The first thing he says is you didn't do anything.
Like he realizes that all that anger was misdirected and he goes after like, so that's, that's a big one is that he cares deeper than he shows. Um, but his goal is always to protect. Her in that. And I absolutely love it. Like, I know it's toxic at some point, cause he deserves so much better, but like just having that and knowing that, and he tried like he, he went through what he needed to go through, like all the anger and.
Leaving and leaving worry in that love to go write this book, right. To create this publishing company company, to do the things that people told him that he would never do. Like he had to have that growth and he took it upon himself and then he could see it in others. Like he could call you out on your BS the same way Laurel.
I called him out on his. And with all the deep and brooding. And, um, so I think those are the, the biggest ones that are his redeeming qualities. And I like hindsight 20, 20. I can totally see it in my relationship. Like having done the, the bad guy, the bad boy things that weren't really bad boys. They just like try to be very successfully
Julia: they're wannabes.
Brianna: Not want to be bad boys who are like super, really nice on the inside. Like if you're not that person who knows them as that, that's not what they show. So like super hard exterior, but really deep, soft, complex, layered inside, like best that would probably be. His best redeeming qualities.
Julia: Yeah. I'm, I'm inclined to agree because whenever anybody makes a plea for him to do the right thing, he does the right thing.
Like, cause he's probably was going to do the right thing anyway. Right. But he needed that little nudge from somebody to remind him like when Luke's toaster breaks, like the big toaster breaks and Roy kind of calls out just for not like being more helpful. Mysteriously the toaster gets. You know, Luke's been struggling this entire episode with fixing the toaster and he can't do it.
And then suddenly the toasters working and you re you put it together, like just did that for him to try and make us, you know, help a little bit. I mean, just little things, you know, when Rory had struggled with those sprinklers and he runs into her. Soaking wet before they get together. And he like goes just immediately into problem solving mode for her.
Um, that was really sweet and he's just very thoughtful as well, which I really thought was a wonderful quality cause sometimes bad boys. Aren't thoughtful. Cause they're only thinking about themselves. And I loved that. I loved that. He was very, I don't know, consider it. I loved it though. When Luke remember when Lucas and watch it breeds all the self-help books about.
And then gives them to, just to read.
Brianna: That's awesome. I don't remember that, but I was thinking about, um, like the, the blurbs, like the things that just does. And one of the things that I absolutely love is that he never pushed boundaries. Like I know you were, you were talking about how, um, he kind of pushed.
Dean and Rory away from each other. And I really, I really don't think it was that I think it was, it was enough of a catalyst, but I don't think that he was necessarily perpetrating it. Cause if you ask him or like, if you realize he's like, Even with Logan, like, he's just like, I'm just the friend, like he's, he's all the way back.
And, um, when Rory's like, I'm with Dean, he's like, is your boyfriend like clear boundaries? Like, is this something that I can touch? Is this something that I can touch? Like I'm not, I'm not coming near you and getting in the middle of. And the
Julia: relationships. Yeah. Now that I think about it a little bit more, he was more antagonistic towards Dean than he was Rory.
When it came to their relationship, like everything he did wasn't about Rory. It was about just irritating Dean. Like the basket number to just get a task it basket episode where they've been on a basket, some of the stuff that happens in, in stars hollow, I'm just like, it be interesting. If this was like real, like been on my basket by a date with me with four, you know, whatever basket food basket, and I would be 100% Laura light in the sense that there'd be like expired food in there.
I don't keep groceries in the house. Like I buy my food daily, which is why I will not survive in a pot, in an apocalypse. And also why a panicked a little bit about when the world shut down, because I was like, I don't have food for four days.
Brianna: We all need just in our lives.
Julia: We, yes. Yes we do. And I just love that so much as the baggage though.
Yeah. But I love that by the time we see him again and like the later seasons, even though it's briefly, he's definitely come to grips with it. And he's definitely like doing a lot better. It's clearly healthier, you know, being a teenager is hard just in general. And then you add in the fact that your parents are those two people.
Um, so, and then by the time we see him in a year and a life, I'm just like, oh, I just want them to be together so bad. I think that they finally were in a, I mean they aren't, but you know, it felt like is this the time they're finally in the right place to be together? No, but still. And how do you go from just to Logan?
First of all, I mean,
Brianna: I don't, I don't even know. I feel like she just needed something that was so not,
Julia: yeah, he's completely the antithesis. He's like, he's like, he's like the book, he's a book reader, but not in the same way that Jess was a book reader. Right? Like he's more into like nonfiction business kind of shit.
And he's like a philanthropy. So he's got that part of him and then he's, you know, oh my God, it is painful to me to watch the Dean and Rory kissing scenes, because I feel like, I feel like Dean looks like he's a bad kisser.
Brianna: I was watching. Um, gosh, was, it was season three. I don't remember which episode it was.
I think it was 19, 18 or 19. It was the same episode where she went to the publishing house, but she was like mad at him and, um, wrote his essay or wrote his, his, um, his line, his byline for on textbooks or something. Oh. Um, but like the fact that like, Logan went in, like grabbed her for a kiss. Like it wasn't like she prompted it.
It wasn't like, it was a mutual thing. Like there was, there was gross tension there and I'm like, that felt so hoarse and it looked weird and that was just Ugh, but I have, I have my. I just, I don't like Logan. I don't like, I don't like his character. He plays the same character and everything. He was the same in the good way.
It was the same one. What was it? The resident like? Oh yeah,
Julia: the resident. Yeah. Yeah. Um, cause the same person, cause you know how they were going to do a spinoff. So you know how he goes to Santa Monica or Venice to go visit his dad in California and all that stuff at the end of season three, when he just disappears from, um, That was kind of like a soft pilot situation where they were going to do a spinoff show with him and his dad in California.
And then they ended up not going through with it because it's very expensive to film, especially in Venice, California is one of the reasons I think there might've been other reasons and I kind of wished now it had happened. I think out of all the characters and the character growth, we see he has the most character growth, but we don't see any of it.
It's all done off screen.
Brianna: That's true. I think Luke did a lot too. I think Luke went through a lot. I mean, between just being Luke at the diner to being Luke, and now I have to take care of. My, my nephew to Luke is a dad that cut out that he's not. And then getting, getting married, like he's still like gruff he Luke.
Right. But at the same time, like you see him go through these different stages, um, as like, uh, a parent, for lack of better words in all of these. That just adds layers to Luke, but
Julia: especially considering how much they emphasize, how much he hates kids, keep throwing them in situations where he's got to be around kids.
Brianna: And now the soccer
Julia: team. Oh my gosh. That. So funny. I don't want to coach soccer. That's not what they were asking. Like he wasn't even listening to the
Brianna: cracks me up.
Julia: They were like super violent. I know. And then at the end when he's like, I'm just saying, oh my gosh, that's a great show. That's a great episode.
In season three, episode, 19 pig. That's what it's called. Lane's band has their first gig at a house party. And every teen in stars hollow is at this party, including Dean and his new girlfriend. Lindsay, Jess is deeply emotional, but channeling. In all the wrong ways, as you mentioned earlier, and he and Dean finally finally have that physical fight.
The fandom has been anxiously anticipating since just arrived in the hollow. So let's talk about it. The fight is clearly about Rory. Right. I think it's clearly clearly about Rory, but I also can't help, but wonder how does that make Lindsay feel? Because Lindsay, so for listeners, friends at home, Lindsay comes in after Lori and Dean break up.
Lindsey's like dating Dean, but it's like awkward. Cause like worry doesn't know and like all these things. And then she finds out at a hockey game and that's the same night that just, or, yeah, that's the same night that Rory state got stood up by Jess. And they're just having this weird interaction because Jess is just having a hard time because his mom doesn't want him and his dad, Brandon, Lee's showing up places.
But that night when Jess and Dean fight, Rory's like, stop it, stop it. And Lindsay is just, just there. She's just there. So let's talk about the fight and let's speculate on what we think Lindsay was feeling.
Brianna: So. I watched that. And I think the, the impetus, like the, the starting factor was not with just said coming down the stairs, he's like, of course, but I think Dean threw the first punch because he felt like.
Jess had done something wrong, Tori, like it wasn't, it wasn't just the tears. It was the fact that they both came out of the bedroom and like Roy came down in tears and she's had nothing. So his first, his first objective was. To avenge worry,
Julia: right. Because he's never stopped loving her, like, sorry, Lindsay.
I understand that you are now dating Dean, but Dean clearly is still in love with Rory. And I feel like this fight was that, was that saying like he's never stopped loving her?
Brianna: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I can, I can see that. I meant more just like, like from that perception of event. Gotcha. I think that's what that was, but I think.
Coming back, like hitting him back. That first punch was a culmination of, along with everything that he had going on. And then being told he can't take his girlfriend to prom because, because he was flunking out. So like there was, there was a whole lot of self-talk and then he, he knew that he didn't do anything wrong and he went to go apologize.
And the first thing. He comes down to his worry with Dean worry, finding comfort in Dean. I think that just like send him over the edge as far as like. He loves her so much and for him to go or for her to go to him, like that was just, that was icing on the cake. So I think it was more of just like a projection of like, I'm not enough for the people that I love.
Right,
Julia: right. Because that's what he's dealing with since he got to the hollow.
Brianna: But Dean's base is just like everything that those actions. Um, and I think that's why I worry, couldn't stop it. Like it wasn't one of those things where both of them were like men enough to be like, we both love her. Like I get it.
Like, that's it, like, it was just, they had to, to duke it out for all of the, all of the years that they had been in that situation. But I don't, I don't think that either of them was in, in the entirety battling. For worry. And for her love, I think that there was, there was a lot of other things that they just kind of projected onto themselves or unseen.
I can't
Julia: again, I go back to, I can't imagine being in justice position, being told that you're going to, um, basically have to repeat senior year, which should be the easiest year you have, if you've like picked all your courses, correct? Or at least I'm okay. Correction. I shouldn't make a generalization like that.
For me, it was the easiest year I had because I got all of the classes that I needed. That sounded like they sucked out of the way first. So that way I could have an easy senior year. Um, But to also meet Rory's expectations. Like she has a very clear expectation that she wants to go to prom and she wants to be like a couple of things and to be in a relationship with him.
And he's, I don't think he was ever intentionally trying to let her down. I think that, you know, like when he stands her up and they like, he's like, oh, I'll call you, but then doesn't call. Cause also. He's working two jobs. He's working at Walmart, which that when Luke finds out, he's working at Walmart is hilarious.
Um, but he's working full time at Walmart and he's dropped out of school, but we don't know that he's dropped out of school until I think the episode that you're taught until that point, when you're talking about how he can't buy, um, prompt tickets, because he hasn't been at school. And that's the other part of that episode, too, where Lindsay is like, oh, you used to go to our school.
Yeah. Whereas, like he still goes and Dean says, does he though? Or I haven't seen him or something to that effect. So there's, there's a lot of like unintentional dishonesty because just doesn't know how to deal.
Brianna: Yeah, I see that. And I think watching it, the frustrating part for me is that the principal was so.
Far against helping Jess, like so far into his perception of who Jess was and why that, even if he said like, I can catch up, I can do the work. Like he's like, oh, well you missed the days. So yeah, there was no discussion to be had there because he had already had this belief and it was like cemented in his mind.
That just just was, I don't know. Luke said it, the kid in the back of the class, like 20 hours, 20 years later with the beard. Yeah. 11th
Julia: grade all over again.
Brianna: Yeah. So I think that was the most frustrating part for me. Um, but having coped the way that just does, like I, uh, it just, it, it frustrated me because I'm like he's doing all the things that he can, and he's trying to do the best that he knows how the way that he knows how.
And he's in that process, unintentionally hurting the one person who actually can get him out of that. So that was, that was just like a sucker punch. And I wanted to be like, really Dean really like, go somewhere, go with your girlfriend. Goodbye,
Julia: go somewhere else. Nobody likes you. Actually, there are a lot of people that like him and I don't get it.
Brianna: He's the pretty boy. He's, he's the. First crush that people want. I
Julia: mean, I appreciate how tall he is. He's like, yes, you're six too. Cool. That means you can reach the top of the refrigerator for me. That means you can get all the shit. Why did I put all that stuff in the top shelf? I can't reach it. I don't know how it got there.
Like, you can reach that for me. Great. But I just feel like, I just feel like he was. Sort of measured and then blow up better. And, and that was, that's hard for me to watch because I've been in relationships like that. And I don't like it. He argues in a way that feels like he's not listening to the other side.
Like he's not actually having a dialogue he's just angry and is gonna push you and give you unrealistic ultimatums. Maybe I'm projecting now, but he just, I hate. I hate that I bottom line. I just hate that shit. Don't hold onto it so much that you have to blow up in front of me, blow up at me in front of people.
That's rude. That's disrespectful. Our dirty laundry. Doesn't need to be aired out on the dance floor at a fucking fundraiser. If you're mad at me. Yes. Let's have words, but not in front of everybody. Like, that's just, I don't know. I hate that. I hate that feeling. I hate watching stuff like that because it brings those memories back for me.
I know Gilmore girls is a light-hearted show. They just like went there. But
yeah,
Brianna: it's a thing when he, when he did that, when he does it for me. He keeps, he used the words. He's like, I'm sick and I'm tired of it, but he did it like right in front of Jess. I'm like, you just gave permission. You just gave AMO everything that he said that he was like tired of. And he didn't want, like, he had so much time to have these conversations with him.
I also don't like the way that Rory was just like super fixated on Jess. I get 24 hours of tiredness. Your, your best judgment is not there, but at the same time, like she literally just drilled for 30 minutes. She's like, oh my God, he's kissing her. Oh my God. He's like, there was, there was no presence in the fact that she was.
With Dean. So I could, I can see his frustration because I have been in those moments where I'm just like, if you're in that relationship, go be in that relationship. That was, that was literally what I just told my ex. And, and I didn't realize until the day when I went on to Netflix, I'm like, I, I don't want to see her name.
And I didn't realize how angry I was about it, but that's my own stuff. That's my own stuff, but at the same time, like I think that she was in the wrong, in that moment to, to like, so her super fixation on somebody who wasn't there rather than having that conversation with herself, even with her mom say, Maybe it is just like, I'm not sure what I should do with Dean instead of keeping up the appearances of that couple.
That was Dina Marie. Yeah.
Julia: You're not wrong. There, there, her mom gave her plenty of opportunities to admit that she had. Have feelings for him and she didn't take it. She kept denying it. She kept saying, no, no, no. I'm with Dean I'm with Dean we're together with Dean. And then that final scene in season two or three, whenever it was when they have, you know, they secretly kiss it, Suki his wedding.
There's something about the way that when she does sort of admit to Lorelei that she ingest kiss that Laurel, I like, I feel like lore. I feel like Rory felt attacked. Bye Lorelei and got super defensive. And I don't know if there was a better way to handle that because that's shocking news to learn three months later.
Um, but again, I think that if Dean, instead of him sitting on the doorsteps foots, you know, uh, porch steps, waiting for worry to come home and then seeing the Lorelei, she likes just doesn't she, I think. Should have been a conversation. He had started with Rory. And then, I mean, then we wouldn't have the TV show that we had loves hard.
Brianna: I feel both sides, especially with, with my ex, like I'm like our relationship was like a foot out the door before we got married. And in hindsight, I can see that. And like all of these other conversations, like seeing it with Dean I'm like, yeah, she, she did your dirty. And I don't think she, I don't think throughout the show that she learned that, like, it never was a conversation that she had, even when she kissed Jess.
And she's like, oh, I don't know with my emotions and between all these people. And I just, I'm sorry, I didn't mean, and you deserve better, but I don't think that that realization came that within all of these relationships, like. It wasn't the other person that it was always her and that might've been because of the relationship that she had with her dad, not being able to commit to that kind of relationship in a way that was vulnerable, insecure,
Julia: vulnerabilities, hard, man.
I admire people who can do it.
Brianna: One of the things that I always say is, um, it's a decision of practice and a process. So for, for me, um, Even in like having conversations online or having conversations with my ex I'm, like, I can see where like, if I'm hurt or if I'm in the middle of my hurt, like no words, like I am the most terse I can be, but there are also some times where I have enough space or I give myself enough grace and I'm like, okay, This is the space that I'm in and I'm welcoming you into it.
And this is what I need. This is what I don't need. This is what I don't want from you. Like, I just, I need someone to come into this space and to do it in a way that will help me to create trust and safety in this container. So that's what that is. And. I feel like we got away from our feelings for Lindsey, but
Julia: we did woopsie.
Oh, I guess in a way like roundabout way, like. So I've been in positions where like, I dunno if you know much about the story about Johnny Cash. Um, there was a biopic in, I don't know what year it was with Reese Witherspoon and Joaquin Phoenix, where they portray, um, John and June cash. And they have this whole early segment with his first wife.
And I just remember thinking I am, so the first wife, he, like there was this very clear line. That you thought you were supposed to be with me and to do all of these things, but then at some point you probably already always knew, but at some point you realized it and was like I'm out, but then like kinda got out in a shitty way to relate it back to Lindsay.
She's kind of the opposite of that. You know, she's not June Carter cash, she's Rosanne cash and she has two. Rosanna, whatever his first wife's name is. I can't remember off the top of my head. So she has to sit through this relationship and watch her person be in love with somebody else. And that's, you know, so I can, I feel that for her, I just throw out the whole, it just made me hate Dean Moore, all the shit she put, he put her through, it made me hate Dean more because I know what that feels like.
Brianna: I think that. On the precipice of, or while going through this like divorce breakup process, like in all of it's fun, realizing how important relationships are, um, and, and what that means. If we can set expectations and we can have those boundaries and, and we're clear on all of those that. The most important, but also creating space together.
And I'll say it that way, creating space together so that I can have my safety and then include other people in it. Yes. 100% heard safe. Loved that is my responsibility. And I know it. But I, I want to take that atmosphere and like add electrons to my cloud and create an element. No, wait, create an Adam element elements or the form is Melissa.
That works. There you go. There you go together. It has to be chemically separated.
Julia: That's what I want. Yeah. I don't disagree. There's a reason why I want my life to be a button. Hour and a half romcom, because that feels, it feels like that though. Jess has his fault and we could certainly do a whole series of Jess analysis on its own, but that's not the point of today.
The point of today is to discuss our appreciation of Jess Mariano, his beautiful face, and a sexy mind, his mind. Oh my gosh. Brianna, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Brianna: Thank you for having me. This is Uber fun, talking and psychoanalyzing
Julia: and all the things. Oh my gosh. Can you, will you tell everyone where they can find you if they want to keep up with you on
Brianna: absolutely best places to find me, um, are on my website, Brianna sexton.com.
That is I a N N a M Sexton. Exactly. Likes it. Like it sounds or just leave that there.
Or you can find me on Instagram at Brianna Sexton copy. And those are probably the two best places to find me find anything about me. Um, and then have a conversation. I love having conversations with tea, water, wine. What have you?
Julia: Wonderful. And listeners I'll link to her website and her social handles.
So it makes it easy for you to find her as well. Um, As always you can find us in between episodes on Instagram at pop culture makes me jealous. And if you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to hit that like or subscribe button. So you never miss when we drop a new episode. Thanks again to Brianna for being here.
It's always a pleasure to connect with you one day. We're going to actually get together in person since we're in the same time zone. Yes, indeed. Thanks for tuning in y'all until next time.
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