Sixteen Candles | 3
Show Notes:
Sixteen Candles made its theatrical debut on May 4th, 1984, and starred the eighties darling, Molly Ringwald. Written and directed by John Hughes, this film has been a cult classic for several decades and is one of Hughes more notable long-lasting works. A Teen movie about a girl who turns 16 and everyone in her family forgets, she’s pining for the hottest guy in school, and generally feeling invisible until her heartthrob crush discovers who she is. Over the course of the night, the audience is taken through a high school dance, a high school party, and the ultimate romantic payoff, if you’re sixteen.
Our guest this week is the founder of the blog, The Goddess Attainable, Libby Saylor
NPR Article referenced in the show: “What's So 'Cringeworthy' About Long Duk Dong in 'Sixteen Candles'?
The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
The Guest: Libby Saylor
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Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous where we discussed pop culture through the lens of race or gender. And sometimes both. I'm your host, Julia Washington. And on today's show, Libby sailor is back and we are talking 16 candles.
Julia: 16 candles made it theatrical debut on May 4th, 1984. And start the eighties, darling. Molly ringing. Written and directed by John Hughes. This film has been a cult classic for several decades and is one of Hugh's more notable, long lasting works, a teen movie about a girl who turned 16 and everyone in her family forgets she's pining for the hottest guy in school, and generally feeling invisible until her heart throb crushed, discovers who she is.
Julia: Over the course of the night, the audience's taken through a high school dance, a high school party and the ultimate romantic pay. If you're 16, but before we dive in, let me reintroduce you to my guest. Libby sailor is a blogger and artist living and working in the suburbs of Philadelphia, her blog, the goddess attainable, aims to inspire and empower women to become their authentic goddess, selves unapologetically.
Julia: She explores topics of dating and relationships. Self-love personal growth and spirituality among others. She loves spending time with her closest friends and family, including her fraternal sister. They share a love of pop culture and stand up comedy and love to analyze all things, pop culture with their Virgo, analytic, and critical minds.
Julia: She also needs nature. Loves to cook and bake and can't go too long without watching a movie in an actual movie theater with popcorn candy and soda. Ghostbusters 1984 is her all-time favorite movie followed closely by Jurassic park, 1993. And the matrix 1999. She was here in season two to discuss when Harry met Sally and I'm thrilled.
Julia: She's back with us today. Welcome back Libby.
Libby: Thank you. Hello? Nice to be back. Glad
Julia: to have you here. And I have to tell our friends at home that since your last appearance, we become actual friends.
Libby: Yeah. Kind of not, I wouldn't say inseparable, but we talk almost every day. If not, you know, every couple of days.
Libby: Yeah.
Julia: Which I love. Yeah. It's nice. I was going to ask you. What's your go-to candy. When you go to the movies here.
Libby: I get it varies depending on the salt, cause I need a salt and a sweet. So if I get I'll get nachos, if I'm at a certain theater, cause some theaters have crappy nachos, you should eat. I can say shitty, shitty nachos.
Libby: My local theater has awesome nachos. If I do that, I got to go with the plain M and M. Um, not very original, but solid every once a while. And if I get popcorn, I'll still go with original m&ms. I might venture off into snow caps. Ooh, maybe junior mints. If I'm feeling off the wall, what about you? What are you.
Libby: I always get, so my
Julia: son and I, we split a small popcorn and people are always like, you know, they always try to upsell you and then like, get the bigger one. But honestly, like I'm not here for spending the money on a big popcorn where I'm just gonna throw half the bucket away. That's wasteful. Yeah. Um, so we split a small popcorn and then I put it in a little container and he keeps the bag.
Julia: Cause then he doctors at himself and then all get assigned a nacho cheese to dip the popcorn.
Libby: Oh, my God. I've never heard of that.
Julia: It's well, I think it's delicious, but I also like live and breathe cheese. Um, and then I'll get, I was doing milk beds for a really long time, but then I got a bad batch of milk duds once and it was just like, Yeah.
I
Libby: feel like every batch of milk beds is bad. Like, I feel like it's just my only memory of milk duds is just them being really hard and just not good because
Julia: nobody buys them. So they get too tough. Um, and then I switched to reason at recently, but then my son will get something like, like fruity flavored.
Julia: So I'll, you know, put my hand up and be like, can I have a couple of years? So I need a little taste way back when, um, When seeing two came out, I went with my really good friend and her daughter, whoever she was my niece. And she was like, what kind of candy do you want? Oh, shit. I have all of my staples, but like I have nobody to give me like a fruity handful.
Julia: I need a fruity handful of candy. That's normally what my kid brings and he's not here. And she's like, I got you.
Libby: Yeah. I don't get the fruity at the movie. I don't understand the fruitiness at the movie theater because I need the chocolate with the, I don't understand fruit can in general. Cause I'm just like chocolate or a death.
Libby: Um,
Julia: I have a problem. I would live off of candy if it wasn't medically awful for you to do
Libby: so, it's pretty bad.
Julia: It is pretty bad. Like after lunch every day I go and get a sweet treat.
Libby: Oh, well, I mean, yeah. Okay. Chocolate sweets are happening every day. That's happening. Oh,
Julia: it's 100% peanut M and M's, that's what I get after, after lunch, peanut m&ms that's my snack.
Julia: After lunch afternoon sweetness. Anyway,
Libby: final thing. Freshman year in college. I all I remember is, um, we had two breaks cause we had long went to art school. We had long hours of like sketching and, and then we'd go to the break room twice a day. We'd have the vending machines. I would get a bag of Lay's sour, cream and onion and a bag of M and M's twice a day full semester.
Libby: Like I was, I, I gained like definitely, I would say more like 30 pounds. You just can't do that. No doubt it's showing on your body, but yeah, it was fun while it
Julia: probably delicious. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. It be, this next statement is going to feel weird. 16 candles and I are the same age and I'm only a little bit older by a few months.
Julia: So I'm going to insert a crying emoji right here, because I'm not ready. This movie has all the classic eighties components. We love parties, high school hi-jinks and Anthony, Michael Hall and John Cusack. I think it's actually John Cusack first, like major motion,
Libby: him and Joan Cusack. I think they were like local Chicago kids.
Libby: Yeah.
Julia: They're so cute. Even now to this day, I'm like, I think gossip on John Cusack he's animal, but he's just, I just love them. Yeah. Roger Ebert's 1984 review was positive. He said, this is a fresh and cheerful movie with a goofy sense of humor and a good ear for how teenagers talk. It doesn't hate its characters or condescend to them.
Julia: The way a lot of teenage movies do. Instead, it goes for a human comedy and finds it. Everyday lives of the kids in the story. I have to make a note here for our friends at home. I am fully aware of the problems with 16 candles and we will be discussing it a bit later in the show. But for now we're going to start at the beginning, which is 1984 and work our way forward.
Julia: So I do want to offer a content warning as we will be discussing the cultural understanding of rape of the 1980s versus current era. So just putting that out there for people who might not be ready for. Ebert later goes on to say 16 candles contains most of the scenes that are obligatory and any teenage movie, the dance, the make-out session, the party, the, that turns into a free for all, but writer and director, John Hughes, doesn't treat them as subjects for exploitation.
Julia: He listens to these kids. The New York times at the time also gave this film a decent review and raved. Directorial debut stating 16 candles shows Mr. Hughes to be well able to direct his own dialogue and to juggle a cast of all American comic caricatures. So I want to start in the sense of our own innocence and naive team.
Julia: Do you remember when you first saw this movie and what was your overall impression at the time?
Libby: Well, first of all, you feel bad. Cause you're the same age. I was five in 1984, so, but it's okay. I'm cool. It's cool. I'm cool.
Julia: Yeah. I find you to be a very delightful and cool person. This is one of the reasons why my friends
Libby: useful.
Libby: Right. I said like I'm 16. Okay. Um, yeah. So I tried to remember, you know, So I was five. I don't think I saw it when it first came out, but I had, I grew up with an older sister, eight years older than me, who was a full blown teenager in the eighties. So I think a lot of my pop culture and eighties influence all comes from her because she was in it.
Libby: And I so looked up to her. I worshiped her. Um, so I'm sure she introduced me and my, my sister and I. Movie and a breakfast club and all the other John Hughes movies. Um, I remember as a kid feeling like it, I was appalled by the vulgarity. I like as a kid, I was definitely like, whoa, there's like a lot of raw stuff going on here.
Libby: Like this is not like an innocent, like I probably shouldn't have seen it like that scene where
Julia: she gives a Molly Ringwald, Samantha. Gives Anthony Michael Hall who's credited as the geek, her panties. Like that was just like, to me even still, like, there was never a point in my life where I was like, that's normal.
Libby: I would never, oh my God. I couldn't even, or even just, I mean, just the scene. I mean, nudity is not like, but still like for a little kid, like when they flashed to Carolyn's naked showering body and they're both staring at her, like talking about her and, um, And just like, just all us. I mean, I was so innocent, just all the sex talk, all the focus on sex.
Libby: Um, it was definitely just like, oh, this is a grownup. You know, up kind of movie. Um, yeah, I don't know. What were your first impression? I mean, I remember the only other thing I remember is even at a young age, I was like, Jake, Ryan is fucking dreamy. Like, it doesn't matter how old, you know, and I remember being really low.
Libby: My hugest crush. My first crush, like, you know, I might've been six was David Hasselhoff in Knight rider. Oh my God. He's just so captured my everything. And I remember feeling. That Jake Ryan feeling when you just, you, can't not, I mean, if you're, yeah, you just, can't not, if you, I even want to watch it this week, I got that.
Libby: Like, when he's at his car, a whole wedding, you're just get that like, oh my God. Look at him. Cute.
Julia: Also kind of an asshole, but he's so high. It's ridiculous. Like I, okay. So I don't remember. I have these very like. Vague memories. We used to go to this cabin up in the Hills. When I was a kid, the TV was old.
Julia: It was like very much a click, click, click kind of situation. Nice. Because there was only so many bedrooms. I always got banished to sleep on the couch cause I was the littlest. So I, you know, eight o'clock in the morning, I'm turning on the TV and it was always either a breakfast club or 16 candles or some other like obscure movie.
Julia: Like I've seen some movies that I couldn't tell you what they're about, but I have very clear memories of the scenes that traumatized me. But with these two. That was always kind of in rotation for whatever the network television was of that, of the nineties. You know, when I was like a little kid and probably shouldn't have been watching them.
Julia: Um, and I don't think my parents had any clue that that was what I was doing at six o'clock, seven o'clock in the morning when I couldn't. Yeah, but because of that, you know, it's one of those movies that once you kind of get old enough to be openly watching movies, when you have strict parents, it's in rotation.
Julia: And one of the things that always struck me as odd and still strikes me as odd in teenage movies in general is showering after gym. We didn't have time to do that. Our PE teacher literally was like, so classes were 55 minutes and you had six minutes to, well, when I was in high school, you had five minutes to get from one class to the next.
Julia: They upped it to six. I think my senior year, because our campus was so huge. It just wasn't realistic. So to me, it was like, who showers after gym? Like our PE teacher would be like, all right, go, go change. You have, you have eight minutes to get to your next class kind of thing. So I just, that always and will always confuse me because that wasn't my high school reality with gym class.
Libby: Yeah, I had, we, I remember a couple traumatizing times where, and it was in grade school, I think, where they made us, like the gym teacher was like, this is a thing that you all have to do. And just everybody was petrified, especially, you know, there's the skinny girls and then there's like the, not so skinny girls.
Libby: These for everybody who had just, it's just awful. Um, and I think at a certain point, Maybe the teachers gave up on it or maybe they realize this is weird and not necessary. Um, But we did have to do it a couple times, but yet in high school, like just hanging out naked showering, the way shit is like in a spa.
Libby: And then also just is a little weird that that Sam and her friend were just kind of staring at her talking like as if she wouldn't have noticed. Yeah.
Julia: There's a lot of suspension of disbelief that has to happen with some of these scenes. Yeah.
Libby: Which is like Holly.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. Very true. But yeah, that scene just always bothered me regardless because it was like, who's going to openly stand there.
Julia: I mean, I don't know. Maybe nowadays people would be more comfortable because we're more comfortable with our bodies now, and there's a little bit more self positivity going around, but like, I don't think. Yeah. I, I,
Libby: I'm not going to feel bad for someone who had to do
Julia: that. I have friends. I've never seen me, like girl, you know, we're all getting ready for the night.
Julia: I show up ready because I'm not changing in front of you.
Libby: Yeah. I don't have like a long list of people who like, know what I look like naked. No one may be my twin. Well, definitely my twin sister, but it's not like we prance around, take it in front of you to,
Julia: right. So that was always, that scene was always really strange to me, but I did, you know, like I said, it in the film always made it into rotation.
Julia: Um, I own it on DVD if I can't, if I'm too lazy to dig it out. Find word streaming so I can just watch it on streaming. Oh yeah. But yeah. And I loved it for the longest time. And we'll get into when that changed in a little bit. I mean, I still kind of do to an extent, but you
Libby: know, it's like a love hate kind of
Julia: like, oh, that's sticky.
Julia: Like now you're like, oh, that's kinda icky too. So the first record I could find, and this doesn't mean it's the earliest record, but it's the first one I could find on the internet. I've true. Criticism of 16 candles was the New York post in 2015 writer. Sarah Stewart offered that this film is racist and sexist.
Julia: It needs to be retired and suggested 16 candles should be filed under cautionary tales of the 1980. In a 2018 article from Vox writer, Constance Grady goes into depth about the cultural difference between rape culture of the 1980s. She begins her argument by stating in the 1980s, rape used in quotes meant an attack from a stranger in a dark alley, not something that acquaintances did to each other out at house parties where everyone knows each other, Molly Ringwald herself.
Julia: Wrote the now famous article in the new Yorker about her time working with John Hughes and offers context to the blossoming 1986. Quote, it can be hard to remember how scarce art for and about teenagers was before John Hughes arrived. Young adult novels had not yet exploded as a genre on screen. The big issues that affected teens seem to belong largely to the world of ABC afterschool specials, which premiered in 1972.
Julia: And we're still around. When I came of age in the 1980s, she goes on to say that portrayals of teens and major motion films were exploitative and remembers just how groundbreaking it was when fast times at Ridgemont high released, because this film was a much closer portrayal of adolescent. Constant screening makes a keen observation though.
Julia: One that would live in storytelling and Hollywood for the next 40 years and is likely, still being used today. Jake Ryan is the embodiment of fantasy. So compelling. It instantly makes 16 candles iconic. What if the object of your romantic high school dreams decided to pursue you without you having to expend any effort whatsoever?
Julia: Just because they could see that you were. Deep and more special than the rest of the school. What if they somehow saw that without you ever having to have a conversation or interact with them in any way in the early 1980s, nineties, and I'm going to go. Uh, as far as the two thousands, we weren't really having these conversations about intimate partner abuse and rape.
Julia: And what mutual agreement for sexual intimacy is. I mean, there was the conversation about like date rape drugs, but that was more of like, uh, you know, someone's going to slip something in your drink at a party, which still has that sort of like predatory, like scary vibe, but. Does the longing, many of us have to be seen as something desirable and exciting to a person.
Julia: Who's our romantic interest. They fall in love with us based on intrigue. Does this type of trope blind us to harmful representation in Hollywood? Because at the end of the day, Jake, Ryan did some really shitty stuff to his girlfriend in pursuit of Samantha.
Libby: There's so much here and it's, it's actually so relevant to even just me as a woman, like right now, in this day and age, but like the, the, I have so many thoughts about it.
Libby: Like the first thought is like ever reminded me of when I was like, this was back when I was single years ago and I was going to go on a date and I was talking to my coworker about it and she was. She just went right into like, Ooh, you got to put your makeup on and get your nails done and get dressed up and make sure you wear like a, and I remember, so I'm like such a, goody-goody like huge.
Libby: Goody-goody always have an own Lowy. Um, and I remember being. Kind of horrifying. I was like, um, no, like I'm going to do the opposite. Like, first of all, I don't, I mean, it was like an online date, so you don't know 50% chance. He's a super creep, you know, rose, sleazy, he's yucky with everything like his pictures.
Libby: He's lied about. The last thing I want is to like, give him a boner, you know, And so I remember, like, I always, like when I'm dating is very strategic, I'm kind of like downplay my looks in a little bit and it's this weird way to like, I don't know, test him or something, or just to be like, I don't want this to be about sex.
Libby: I don't want this first meeting to be about that. Um, so you know, that came to mind when you were talking about that, but I also thought about, um, the. Experience when I was in seventh grade and I, cause I was so conscious, I think I was so conscious of like, I know this sounds weird, but like rape stuff when I was like my whole life, like, and I don't know if that's cause my father was protective
Julia: and I think too, as women, you know, it's one of those things that we're just kind of aware of because there's always that cautionary tale of like, don't, you know, don't do that.
Julia: You have to do things in pairs and especially now in the world of online dating. Tell me where you are and what does he look like and where are you meeting and what time? And, um, just that whole sort of vibe of how we have to protect ourselves from predators. Like that is a thing when it should be the other way around where it's like, just don't be a predator.
Libby: And I remember feeling so weird as a kid because honestly I didn't get the sense that my fellow female. We're equally as cautious and I, in some ways I was very like envious because I was like, oh, I wish I wish I could be fearless in dating situations or enjoy myself or whatever. And I was basically like, don't get raped, don't get raped.
Libby: Don't get right. And I remember even, but so young, like this, there was this dance and it was seventh grade and I went. I was begged my dad for this amazing puffy pirate shirt, which was in the nineties. That's like the thing, all the express is that express. Oh my God. I could still picture it. It was the perfect.
Libby: So he bought it for him. I wore that with this like tight miniskirt and getting ready for the dance. I w I remember looking in the mirror and being like, I am too gorgeous, and I'm scared that I'm going to like, attract some, like, I was like, so conscious of my, whatever, I felt really, really uncomfortable, but it turns out like when I got there, I was like, so underdressed.
Libby: Everybody else had like velvet dresses, like full on dress, like prompts situation. I felt like such a dumb ass when I got there. But anyway, it was just, I remember being very scared even when I felt like overly attractive or something. Um, yeah. I don't know if any of that is making sense.
Julia: That makes sense.
Julia: Because we always hear, oh, she was asking for it. She wouldn't have worn that if she didn't want it and shit like that. And you're just like, wait, well, what was she wearing? Qualifies as asking for it, because I don't want to be accused like that. Like I just, you know, so you don't really get to fully be expressive with fashion and, um, your style and especially if like your body is a little bit more, what did they call developed?
Julia: She's very developed. Like I, you know, people say that a lot about women who are large chest, uh, Or just curvaceous and, you know, I understand what you're saying, because like, there are some styles out there, especially when I was like super fit. I'm not like I'm, I wouldn't say my body is bad. It's just not what it was six years ago.
Julia: But I w I have always been very aware that there's certain styles I can't wear, because they will be deemed like sexual. If I wear it, like, you know, like, uh, um, Like a little cut or something low cut, or even just like Calvin Klein went through a period where he had like all these really great business attire, dresses, but there were, you know, tight fitting and it just accentuated my butt.
Julia: So it looked like my big old booty was quote asking for it. And it's like, no, this is literally Calvin Klein. Like I got it on sale at TJ Maxx. Like you have yourself. And it's so
Libby: hard. Cause it's like we there's the whole other school of thought, like own your body, shared show off your body, love your, you know, like don't express your sexuality and it's like, look, I would love to, but I.
Libby: I don't want to get
Julia: raped or yeah. Or accused of asking, like, that's my biggest thing like of being, cause you know, we, I was seeing these girls who were built similarly to me and that was the accusation. Well she's flirtatious and she did this and she did that and she led me on and it was just like, Ah, that's terrifying because what does that mean?
Julia: If I think you're funny, like, are you going to think I'm leading you on then? Or like, what does it mean if I'm wearing like, like pencil, like, um, cigarette pants were really popular for a while and like, I love the way they look. I love the sixties vibe. Like for awhile that was, you know, a style I wore, but I had to modify it.
Julia: So I w I didn't look too sexual and it was just, you know, Frustrating in that way. And then you have a movie like 16 candles and granted Caroline was. My favorite character. She was, you know, kind of, they were kind of shitty to each other. Generally she and Jake, um, you know, her comment about like, oh, let's go to Jake's house and have a big party.
Julia: And then like, they, she doesn't care about trashing the house, that kind of stuff. But that doesn't excuse the fact that Jake's like, basically like, you know, take my girlfriends so I can go find some other chick and then yeah. She's so blind won't even know what's going on. Like that kind of shit is
Libby: not like I could file it.
Libby: He think he said I could violate her 10 different ways. If I wanted to, she was like passed out in his bedroom. Which is like, Ooh, God, that's why we even have to worry about that. It's just like a whole other store, you know, a whole other thing. But, um, yeah, but I
Julia: wonder, I wondered when I was watching it this week, I was like, I wonder how much of that became sort of subconscious about just, and then that re that affirmation from, you know, Society with the whole like, cause his comment about like, oh, I could violate her.
Julia: She's not paying attention, blah, to the affirmations of like, well, she was wearing a really short skirt, so she was asking for it like that. To me, it's like, when you hear those messages, when you're little, it's hard for it not to get twisted in some way that does make you like more conscious and aware of like how you look and what you wear.
Libby: Yeah. And that's why I love your podcasts actually, because the same thing happened with our Harry met Sally episode. I can't remember what exactly, but like you pointed something out and I was like, honestly, this is the first time I've ever thought of that. And when I, so with the 16 candles, you know, when you like sent ahead some of these thoughts and you were talking about rape culture, I mean, honestly I was swearing.
Libby: My first thought was like, wait, rape, call 16 candles. Stop and think about it. And then I watched it from the, you know, from that angle and now as a grown woman and with my blog and everything else, I'm so super conscious of all of this stuff, but I'm talking like now, like as of the last, maybe two years, you know, like, and this is really like an evolutionary thing.
Libby: So I just think. Pop culture and things that we see and absorb, like nobody's thinking these things. I mean, unless they're like scholars who are like, it's their job to think about this, they're constantly catching things, but I think it's, it's so subconscious. I think it's, you know, when people see this movie, they're thinking about.
Libby: It's so fun. He's so cute. So cute because we all want
Julia: our hot dreamy crushed to realize, I mean, oh my God, you're the girl of my dreams. Where have you been like, yeah.
Libby: That part. Yeah. And am I a jerk by being like, cause when you were reading about the part about, you know, like. Dream die, like notices you like it's.
Libby: So it's just so unrealistic. And maybe that's just because I had like, not, you know, everybody had a shitty high school experience, but like that never happened to me. That's you know, like who does that happen to? Right. Um, or even if it does, it's like, what is he re what did the, he's going to go off to college and he's going to still like, be.
Libby: Calling Samantha when she was like in junior and high school. Like, I don't know. So, but I hate to say it. I, I don't know if it's just because I saw it when I was young and innocent and into had so many crushes, but why do I still get giddy?
Julia: I did too. I'm not going to lie because yes, because it's like, I think for me, it's the whole like, oh, he realizes that he's in love with, or.
Julia: He's not in love with her who they're too young for that, but he realizes that she's like amazing and interesting and different
Libby: and, or even sees her, like, I love, I forgot about, you know, of course the end scene with him in front of the Ferrari is like amazing. But like, yeah, it's just, oh my God. But I, I forgot.
Libby: Awesome. See that I love is when they're at the dance and she first gets to the dance and she's looking for Jake. And then she spots him dancing with Carolyn and she's just like staring like a dope and he looks up and he sees her and he smiles at her. Okay. Yeah, it's fucked up. Cause he's like dancing literally with his girlfriend, you know?
Libby: I don't know from Sam's perspective, it was just like, oh, I,
Julia: yes. Yes. If you're Sam you're, that's exactly it that's exactly
Libby: it. It was visible and not even, and then you're comparing yourself to Caroline. Perfect. You know, and you're like, what would he ever see in me? But like the fact that he's just that smile, that kind of stuff I kind of can relate to.
Libby: I have like these teenage angst memories of like, you know, a popular boy that I had a huge crush on. I thought he thought I was invisible. And there were times where I would feel someone looking at me and I looked over and he was. Looking at me smiling at me. And it was like, oh, so I think Jake just kind of awakens that.
Libby: I totally
Julia: understand. I know it's so complicated. I just can't with the complicated, because again, I just want to walk out of work one day and then a bus drives by, and then there's my version of Jake Ryan leaning against, you know, my version of whatever hot car I want a guy to drive.
Libby: Although wouldn't would that be creepy?
Libby: If he was like, Wouldn't you be, if he was like, I've been watching you, you know what I mean? Like, where'd this guy come from and just like, wait, who are you? Why do you know who I am and where I work? Yeah.
Julia: Yes. See, that's the reality of this religion. It's just not, it's just not good. It's just not good. But also we've well established.
Julia: I want my life to be a buttoned up.
Libby: I think every woman does. I mean, come
Julia: on, I will take any kind of rom-com. I'm actually very excited about, um, Dan Dan levy has a romcom that he's working on and like big headways are headlines because it's. Totally like, um, LGBTQ storyline and like, that's the love that they're going, you know, they're the whole cast and all this stuff.
Julia: Right. And I was like,
Libby: yeah, I feel like if anybody's tackling romcoms, they're usually in that vein, I feel like the days of hetero sexual cisgender just from comms are probably, you know, they took. They had their time in the sun for years and years and years. And I think that anything that's going to be done now is probably going to be of that vein.
Libby: It's really
Julia: interesting. And I'm, I'm here for it because I fucking love it. Yeah. So now I'm like, can I be the straight best friend? Because you know, there was always a gay best friend. I'm like, I want a straight best friend. It's like amazing. I'm like, I will be the one there. Over the last few years, more conversations have been emerging about the character long duck dong and NPRs code switch in 2015, ran an article titled what's so cringy about long duck dong in 16 candles author cat chow explains why she says quote long duck dong was an Asian American cliche for a new generation and like most media cliches.
Julia: IRL implications and IRL. For those of you listening, who may not know is. She explains how Asian men have been fighting negative stereotypes for years. And in 2008, Getty one to NABI is on record stating quote. I was making people laugh. I didn't realize how it was going to affect people. And honestly, I don't think either one of us can speak truly on this issue, but I wanted to bring it up here.
Julia: So it we're not ignoring it. We're acknowledging it. And then I'm going to, I'm going to link to the code switch article in the show notes so everyone can read it and, and start exploring that on their own. One of the things I always thought. Was that was very fascinating, was the layers of the family dynamics.
Julia: Sam's parents, Sam's grandparents, and then Sam sister and her fiance and his family. The background story of Sam sister's wedding could totally be its own movie, but it's a secondary story, but also the crux of Sam's plight. But I read. Find the fiance to be skeezy. And it bumped me out the entire film that the sister was getting married to him.
Julia: So let's talk about family dynamics and the relationship between the sister and the fiance. Because this time around, I noticed I was like, it kind of parallels a little bit to, um, Sam's grandparents in a way. Because one of the grand moms is like smoking while the other one's cooking breakfast. And she was like, how can I help?
Julia: And her like long cigarette ashes. And she's like, when's
Libby: the donuts. I was like, oh, I'll just open the donuts. It's
Julia: like, please hold the cigarette asphalt.
Libby: Well, that's where I love also why I love John Hughes movies is because they're, it's not just one storyline. There's always, he puts a lot of thought into like every aspect of.
Libby: All of it. So I love that. So I actually feel like I'm obsessed with Jenny mostly because she's so terrible. Like she's a terrible older sister. She's selfish. She's just could not give two shits about Sam. She's very, self-involved um, she's just pretty ditzy and out there, but I think that, um, I think that.
Libby: The boy with the oily bow hunk variety. It wasn't Rudy. Rudy. I think that Rudy was actually written as a skeezy guy on purpose because I think the whole point is to pit Sam against Jenny and to show. Here's one way to like, be a woman and be making choices. And, but Sam's not that Sam's above that. Sam's better than that.
Libby: Sam's deeper than that though. She's going to get the better guy and, um, and it was reiterated too with, um, you know, I do enjoy the mother. Daughter and the father daughter, I just think that that's, that was sweet. Even when the mom like forgot the birthday. And I think that the talk with the father on the couch, like that was, and he talks about, he's like, I'm kinda worried about Jenny.
Libby: Like, you know, I'm not worried about you cause you like have a good head on your shoulders, but Jenny out on now. So I think that he would, that Rudy was meant to be gross and scuzzy, but yeah, when I watched it again, I was like, Like really bad. Like they're like in the mall, the parents are like in the mafia or something, he's just
Julia: like gross and
Libby: tacky.
Julia: Ben. Yeah. So I wondered, I wondered how old Jenny was, because it was like, well, if I. To get married. I never planned to get married, but like, if Sam's turning 16 and they're at that point in time, so that means you're born in the sixties. So like is Jenny 18 then? Because like, I can't imagine they'd have a child.
Julia: And then five years later have a child because so much of the forties, fifties, and sixties kids are born in quick succession.
Libby: I want to say she'd be like 20, cause I don't think she was in high school. I guess she liked opted out for college. Um, Yeah. And maybe they just didn't put that much thought and Rudy's like a very grown man.
Libby: Yes. Which is another thing
Julia: creepy. That's another thing that bothered me, but I agree with you about, um, the father daughter. Relationship with Sam and her dad and Sam and her mom. I loved that scene where she comes up to her the next day. And she's like, I am so sorry. We forgot your birthday with all the hubbub of the wedding.
Julia: And then the little brother who just doesn't give a fuck.
Libby: No awful. He's
Julia: so bad. It's the worst. I want to smack him. I'm like, he's such a jerk. I hate you so much.
Libby: He's so awesome. And then it's just like, huh? They forgot. We forgot classic that's classic. And we forgot your birthday. Yeah.
Julia: He's terrible.
Julia: Terrible human. I hate him.
Libby: He's he's really gross.
Julia: Oh man. And then at the end, when she's walking out of the church with Jake and the dad sees them and she's like, she's like this
Libby: he's and like the dad is like a huge dork. Like, you know, he's not like some. Dream debt, you know, whereas like hands on and, you know, he's just this kind of dorky guy and, um, just kind of, he just clearly loves her, thinks the world of her, um, is just like, like I kind of feel like, I think I loved them too.
Libby: Cause it's like, you know, everybody wants to have like the perfect parents and like know me as the perfect parents. So when you see sort of perfect. And a movie you're like, oh, they're fantastic. So I feel like the dad pretty much hit the mark and the mom, you know, I mean, she had a lot to juggle with the wedding and all these other things.
Libby: So yeah, those new
Julia: in-laws are attached to that. I would not want to be seen with in public. I, yes, I am a stop.
Libby: I mean, they're really not there. They're off. Like I just, I don't know if. Any, I don't know, like these days, like, would, would parents like, let your daughter like marry somebody like that? Like
Julia: yeah.
Julia: I'm like, why would you agree to it? Especially if she's like, just shot, like not even 21 yet. Like, why wouldn't you be like, do you think this is, but then he made that comment.
Libby: And he met us
Julia: at the end. And the thing when it, when they're screaming about Jenny getting her period, and she's like, I don't want the whole church to know she got her period.
Julia: And then the, um, the guy goes, well, I guess all those people who said we had to get married, feel dumb now. So like applying that Jenny, we thought she was pregnant or something. And so they had to get married and I don't know.
Libby: Yeah. And they were only, I think I really together for six months. Cause remember when Jeanie's like, I've never, I've had men who've loved me before, but not for six months in a row row, which is just like, whoa.
Libby: Okay. Like I just don't get how the parents are not. I don't know, talk to her or something. Yeah. Because
Julia: you know, almost 40, 40 years later, we're gonna pretty much assume that they've gotten a divorce.
Libby: Yeah. Pretty sure. They're not going to make it. I hope. I mean, I hope they don't make it. Cause I mean, she, I would be worried for her.
Libby: Yes. I mean, yeah. I
Julia: don't know. Yeah. Meanwhile, Molly Ringwald and Jake, Ryan are still together in my head. No,
Libby: they're not. Are they. Um, really cannot, you know what? This is, I'm such a jerk. I say I did the same thing in Harry met Sally. I'm such a jerk, but I did it the other way. I don't know if like, you know, is it like a, uh, an equal comparison?
Libby: Do, do you know what I'm about to say? I don't want to say it cause I don't want to be a jerk. Like, you know, Uh, being in the same league. I'm sorry. I, I said it, you know, not like totally adorable, hot, awesome, Jake, you know, at the very least he's going to have a million gorgeous women throwing himself all the time.
Libby: Especially even if he's madly in love with Sam. Like, I mean, what guy is going to look. I don't know a guy. Yes.
Julia: And, you know, it's interesting is I feel like 16 candles is one of the few films and Molly Ringwald is beautiful. Redheads do get a lot of shit for, you know, um, just generally. And so I love that, you know, Molly Ringwald is this lead and she's sort of like being this beautiful lead, but you know, she's not dolled up to be beautiful in the way that Jenny was.
Julia: But I love that. Like an average looking I'm using average and air quotes. Yeah. Teenager gets the hot guy, because so often in movies, especially these teen movies, we grew up with like the average looking dude, getting the hot chick or the hot guy getting the hot check. So like, it's honestly the first time I can recall watching a movie where like un-normal chick, a normal girl gets a super hot guy.
Julia: Yeah,
Libby: I think that's why these, like John Hughes, these movies were always kind of. Y everybody was such a fan of them because it was that like underdog heroin, even in like breakfast club, like, you know, Allie Sheedy ends up with like the, you know, I mean, I wouldn't say Emilio S was like the hot jock, but you know, she's like, like in the eighties he was dreaming.
Libby: Yeah. Yeah. You know, So, yeah, I feel like, I mean, it's funny. I'm like, I can be like so critical of like all sides. Cause I'm also like, oh, you know that like, I don't know, like, like that would, that really happen or that would never happen. And maybe there's this part of me, that's just like jealous of Sam.
Libby: Cause I'm like, well, that didn't happen to me. Any of us, why does that get to happen to her? Which is really fucked up, but I'm
Julia: also, I feel like that's, you know, a normal response to at the same time, because. Yeah, you're not wrong. Somebody who maybe isn't in a situation where they have that sort of ideal idyllic because she's living in this beautiful house.
Julia: They have, you know, this beautiful neighborhood. She's got a structure of a family
Libby: thing. I don't feel bad. That's the thing. Quite feel bad for her enough. Like she's totally adorable. She's got like friends, she's got her good parents that I never, you know, like it's
Julia: not like her character in pretty in pink.
Julia: Worse got the single dad. Yeah,
Libby: he was rather, yeah, that's a little bit more like, oh God, that sucks. And the mean girls in that movie were so. I mean, and yet in this one, it was more just like, she's going to be fine. Like Sam is going to be, she does not have there, there are so many kids who have it way harder than her.
Libby: Um, the one thing I will say though, is, and I forgot to mention, what do you think of the, um, the girlfriend, her girlfriend? I think she kind of socks
Julia: me
Libby: like, mean stuff. Like I remember her. Yeah, go ahead. We'll like being, I remember being upset, like the very first scene where, you know, she's like, I can't believe they fucking forgot my birthday, which is an amazing line.
Libby: So then it flashes to at her, her friend's locker and her friend. Invalidating, all her feelings just like, come on Sam, like, what did you want a breakfast birthday? And it was like, what the fuck? Like, and she was like, no, but they could have said happy birthday, you know? And so the friends like doing that and then like, she just kinda, I think when she revealed, when Sam reveals that she likes Jake, her friends, like he doesn't even know you like sit, which is like, I mean, yeah, no shit.
Libby: Like you did reality checks from your friends, but she just it's like, not that night. I guess I just, I don't like how not nice she is.
Julia: I always thought she was kind of a throwaway character and like the scene when they're at the dance and they're sitting on the bleachers and then he comes and sits by them and the dirt, she, and the guy that she's with who also is very attractive.
Julia: So they is very attractive. Um, you know, they're just kind of awful to him, but I mean to him. Yeah. But I think like that scene doesn't necessarily have to exist either. Like the movie would have. I still worked without it, but I, to me, she was just kind of a throwaway character. There wasn't really a whole lot there for
Libby: me.
Libby: Maybe it's also to show like, look, Sam has a best friend. Like she's not this like friendless person. Like she has a friend who calls her and they ride the bus together and they showed that the dance together, you
Julia: know, and she finds out that her, you know, she's the one who tells her that her panties have been shown off in the locker
Libby: room.
Libby: I would say my favorite all-time favorite, favorite, favorite person. And you might for not sure if we're getting into this later, but the Anthony Michael Hall, I just feel like I could not say enough good things about him. He's
Julia: such a good actor. He was so like
Libby: is beyond his years for sure. And he was, I think he had that like innocence that I.
Libby: I liked that I feel like was missing through the re you know, everybody else was a little bit like had an edge or even Sam was like, kinda too cool. Sometimes. Like she was way mean to him. She was too cool for like long duck dong. She was kinda too cool for like a lot of people, but like, he's just like this refreshing open-hearted guy.
Libby: So yeah, I just, I love him. Just,
Julia: you know, classic geek in the sense of, he just wants people to like him. He's bordering that whole, like, these are my friends and we have things in common and I love these things, but also I want to be cool.
Libby: Yeah. But he's also sort of is cool. Like even when they were in the car and he was just like, yeah.
Libby: You know, but I'm kind of like the leader kind of like the king of the dipshits. She's like, well, that's sorta cool. Like he does have this like authority over his friend. Yeah. So, and then he also has this amazing rapport with Jake first, seeing each other. He's just like, look, Jake. He like, I don't, which is so awesome.
Libby: Cause it's like, he could be totally intimidated by this guy. And he's like ends up talking to him like a normal person, because he's kind of like with a geek, he just, he knows who he is. Like he knows who he is. He's not trying to, he just is who he is. So. I loved him. I do too often in this
Julia: movie. Yeah. You know, he's on the Goldbergs.
Julia: He's one of the teachers on
Libby: the TV show, the Goldbergs. He is, you know what, I haven't really watched that. That's okay. It's
Julia: like nine seasons long. So like the first four seasons are great and I'm sure. You know, all the other, all the, all the seasons are great, but after a while, my son and I just didn't tune in every week too much, just like, okay, we
Libby: get it.
Libby: What also like older Anthony, Michael Hall is way different than like eighties Anthem. Like, is he, does he have any of those? Qualities as an adult and the show or not re yeah. No. And, and I think
Julia: it's an assaultive factor to have him on the show as a, sort of, not a reoccurring character as an every week, but he does make an appearance when they are at school.
Julia: Um, so, but still, like, I didn't recognize him until I saw his name in the credits.
Libby: Wow. Yeah. He totally looks
Julia: different. Yeah. Yeah. How old were you when you realized there were problems with 16 kids?
Libby: Okay, so full honesty disclosure, um, like last week when you had me. Oh my God. I love it. No, I'm, I'm partially kidding.
Libby: I'm also like, I had to really think about it, but definitely, you know, Grown woman. Yeah. I say 32
Julia: when I realized that there were probably maybe a little bit older because I was, I was like, oh my gosh, I went through this phase. It was like, kid, you have to watch all these movies that I loved when I was a kid.
Julia: I want to have this, like, I want to share this experience with you and we're watching it. And I was like, so when you're watching it through the lens of being a parent, you're just
Libby: like, You must have to make a disclosure, like every scene, like, okay, well, wait, this is this because of this, but don't
Julia: do this.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, he doesn't have the same affection, which is totally fine, but that was also a full, full on grown-ass woman.
Libby: I think it has to do with just like, cause this is the thing, our awareness as women about women. It, we each, I feel like we each have our own awakening. Some people awaken really, really early maybe because their parents are all constantly pointing things out.
Libby: Like these types of like political things, but like, For me, I mean, and I think for most women, it's, it is so embedded in the culture. And it's almost a survival thing because we're also taught if you want to survive in this world, like you probably need to get a man who has a fair amount of money or, you know, and just
Julia: that's my joke is that.
Julia: Hollywood hot. So I can be a trophy wife because paying all these bills myself, isn't working out
Libby: totally. You are not alone woman. Like, I mean, it fucking sucks. It's just, we all want that. And I mean, what's funky now about times is like even men are in position. At least younger men are in positions. Like they actually now need women to help them out.
Libby: But that's a whole other thing, but I mean, I think that it, I was just so. So obsessed. Finding a man or being desirable for a man, but making sure I was a too desirable to get raped, you know, like all of these things. And, and then at a certain point, and I always attribute, like, my blog is like just a huge part of my awakening because I just, I had that like snap moment and it was after a date and it was after.
Libby: The guy was okay, but he skeeved me out. He wasn't aggressive. It wasn't. But like, I was like so mad that I had to, that I, that it was in a situation where I had to be polite to this guy that was really gross and that I wanted nothing to do with, and I got in the car and I was just like so angry and it felt so.
Libby: Good to be angry for the first time and to not be like giving the man the benefit of the doubt or giving society the benefit of the doubt. And I was like, no, this is fucked up. This is how I feel, you know? And then the blog kind of came from that, but it's been like this journey, every. Experience that I have in life kind of on a daily basis.
Libby: I have new feelings of like, oh my God, that's fucked up. We've been dealing with that for years. And we didn't even realize it cause it's just like a part of us. So yeah,
Julia: I think gen Z has less deep programming to do, because I think gen Z is the first generation that's been able to like, like we, and I talk about this with my friend all the time.
Julia: I was, you know, we still have, we had friends in high school who still didn't feel safe to come out. And I know that. Still now, but we didn't have conversations that are existing in media. Now we didn't have, you know, um, LGBTQ creators making television shows, normalizing being gay or lesbian or non-binary, you know, and so Jen, I, I feel like gen Z has less programming cause sometimes, sometimes things will happen and um, and still to this day, I'll be like, Because, you know, I'm pretty, we were pretty progressive growing up in the sense, cause we're a mixed race family.
Julia: And like there's a lot of things that we have to think about, but there's still, I mean, I still grew up in a conservative area. I still grew up in a religious home and there are still things I'm just like, wait yeah, my thought process on this, the way I think about this, I need to challenge because now I'm seeing these things, these conversations happening around me and I.
Julia: Confused. So I'm glad that gen Z has less program deprogramming to do, but also it's hard. And I sometimes wish that there was more grace for the generation and older who is trying to get better and who is trying to deprogram and who is trying to understand cause like, I said earlier, you know, the idea of like that statement that Jake says, like how much of that got into my subconscious about how he could violate Caroline and then, and how does that influence, like the way in and inform everything else that I've done?
Julia: Because I was watching it at such a young age.
Libby: Totally. And he was so hot and like this there's this fucked up thing that we as women and probably men do too. If he's hot and the story he wins, he, he, there's no fault. Like, there's this fucked up thing that we do with women too. If she's gorgeous, she's perfect.
Libby: We're not going to hold her accountable for half the things that she's probably accountable for because she's gorgeous and she gets a pass. And obviously we do that with men too, but, and yeah, I mean, I identify with generation X actually. Born in 1979. So I feel like, yeah, deprogramming, if for me, it's just kind of constant.
Libby: I'm almost kind of like, I'm pretty much going to be doing this for the rest of my life. And also like, there's still shit. That's like being under. Like in society, like all the time, like new things. So, um, good for gen Z for just like, at least having a handle on being like, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's some fundamental things here that are ridiculous, you know?
Libby: Um, cause I didn't have that until honestly, you know, like five years ago where I was like, This is fucked up.
Julia: Yeah. The conflicts between loving this movie and understanding the problems with it is so real, but I'm really glad you came by today and you agreed to be on my show again
Libby: because yeah, I'm glad you had me watch the movie again too.
Libby: Cause I, I don't know. I really enjoyed watching again. I'm not going to lie. I just love. After all that we've talked about, I'm just going to say, I just love those Jacobs. I do
Julia: not the ones with him and Caroline, but him and him and sell
Libby: him and just smiling or him just like them. They're awkward moments that was like, I don't know.
Libby: I just like needed that this week. So that was like really nice because
Julia: he's so cute. Stupid, Jake Ryan stopped being so hot.
Libby: He's probably not hot now. I mean, I think he, you know, he lives on a farm. Oh,
Julia: I did know that I kind of loved that. I kind of loved that hotter. Yeah. All honestly it would be, it would be so ideal to like, cause I do kind of like a little rugged cowboy look.
Julia: Yeah. Like sometimes I can't deal with the politics, so I'm just like, oh, that is tricky. Can I get me a rugged cowboy who also. Doesn't think that some of the things that I believe are the devil. Yeah.
Libby: You'd need like a progressive east coast. Organic farmer. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably who you need. Maybe I lasted.
Libby: Yeah,
Julia: maybe definitely not a cattle farmer. There's a lot of them around here. I can't deal with that smell. It's awful.
Libby: Oh, Okay. We'll find something else for you.
Julia: Yeah, we'll figure it out. Um, Libby, can you please remind everybody where they can find you if they want to keep up with you online?
Libby: Um, yes, you can follow me on my blog.
Libby: It's the goddess attainable.com can sign up for my newsletter on that website. You can follow me on Instagram at the goddess attainable. And those are pretty much my two main channels. So check them out. If you're interested and
Julia: friends, we will link to them as well. So to make it a little bit easier for you and I am.
Julia: Just so glad that you were here today
Libby: for us to talk about no. So nice to talk live. You don't usually do that.
Julia: I know our friends at home don't need to know the inner workings of our friendship.
Libby: Okay. Got it. Sorry to see you.
Julia: I'm so happy to see you, like actually in time. Yeah. Friends. Thanks for tuning in y'all until next.
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