Say Anything | 16
Show Notes:
Say Anything debuted on April 14, 1989, and starred John Cusack, Ione Skye, and John Mahoney. This film was written and directed by Cameron Crowe.
Host Julia Washington and Guest Megan Morgan discuss whether or not this film aged well, the relationship between Dianne and her father, and the "unconventional" gender roles this movie presents.
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The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
The Guest: Megan Morgan (Megan's Website)
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Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous where we discuss pop culture through the lens of race or gender, and sometimes both. And I'm your host? Julia Washington. And on today's show, my friend, Megan Morgan is back and we're discussing say anything.
Julia: When you join our patriotic community, you get access to all episodes, bonus content, invitations to our monthly happy hour and a weekly drop-in hangout session that feels more like hanging out at a coffee shop. The cost is only $15 a month. When you join, we'll even give you a shout out in one of our episodes.
Julia: When we hit 100 members, there may even be a book club involved too. Book nerds don't wait, join us. Become a pop culture club member to. Say anything debuted on April 14th, 1989 in star John Cusack, I own sky and John Mahoney. This film was written and directed by Cameron Crowe. But before we dive into our discussion, let me get you reacquainted with my guest.
Julia: Megan Morgan is a yoga teacher, author, artist, and marketing Maven, who was born in Bermuda, raised in Canada, and who made California her home eight years ago, adopted as a baby. Her black and multiracial identity continues to inform all avenues of her life from her artwork to her. And even her yoga teaching Mary for 25 years to her college, sweetheart, Richard, and with two adult daughters and two dogs Meghan's life as a reluctant and messy emerging empty-nester is full fabulous and a constant work in progress and friends who've been with us for awhile.
Julia: You'll remember that Megan stopped by to discuss Nella Larson's 1929 novel passing. And the 2021 film adaptation of the same name. She is my friend in her life though. We still have yet to meet in person and I am so excited. She is back welcome Meagan.
Megan: Uh, thank you so much. I couldn't resist a little giggle there cause I feel like we have totally hung out and realized he's hung out so much online.
Megan: That's going to happen this weekend. I think.
Julia: Well, I'm excited. Yes. I can't wait. I'm like. What's human connection
Megan: or so awkward. Now, what
does
Julia: that look like? You keep telling me you're tall, but how tall are you? Really?
Megan: The first thing people say, wow. You are so, and I'm a bad, tall, like, I feel we have friends.
Megan: Family is taller. Yeah. I'm usually got boots or heels and a lot of hair that's up on top of my head. So I think it makes me look taller than I actually have.
Julia: It's like, we don't know how to process tall women, apparently. Like that's not a thing that we see represented in pop culture at
Megan: all. No, no, unless you're a model or like an actress.
Megan: I feel like those it's like expected. You'll be again, not too. 'cause you don't want to be taller than leading man. Yeah, because heaven forbid that's the way love with all like, like the five ten-ish being actors that there are. I love watching the camera angles. They give them to make them look taller than posters throughout the whole movie.
Megan: It just absolutely kills me. That's fine. We know they do that now.
Julia: I love those. Like, this is how we make sure every, if this, if this were real life, this is where the dude would be in. This is where the girl would be standing
Megan: next to over the shoulder. It's always an over the shoulder look to make the lips look taller and I'm like, I know we still do that.
Julia: No, no, we don't do that in theater. Like it does like I've had costars, if you will, who were like. Because I'm five, five. So like it's not hard to be taller than me.
Julia: Even if I have to, I don't know. Anyway, let's move on. And this is not why we are here today. We are here today to discuss, say anything. So here we go. The 1989 Hollywood reporter review had this to say, as an intuitive and sympathetic. Look at teenagers on the verge of big decisions. Say anything, steaks out territory somewhere between John Hughes, adolescent fantasies, and the corrosive satire in heaven.
Julia: This is Cameron Crowe's debut and was generally met with critic praise, the TV guide, which I was like super thrilled that TV guide popped up because I loved reading TV guide when I was a kid and into high school. And shortly before it died, the TV guide called this film a far cry from Hollywood teen romance.
Julia: And later on in that Hollywood reporter reviewed. They said, quote, Cameron Crowe who wrote and directed the film, develops an underlying ideas with a precise subtlety. This is not a melodrama about two kids who fall in love and a parent who gets in trouble with the IRS. It considers the story as if it was.
Julia: Actually happening with all the uncertainties of real life and quote, not everyone had positive reviews of the film though. Variety at the time was not charmed by Cameron Crowe's debut quote, say anything is a half-baked love story, full of good intentions, but uneven in the telling appealing tale of an undirected army brat, proving himself worthy of the most exceptional girl in high school elicits a few laughs plenty of smiles and some genuine fears.
Julia: They even go on to say that Diane's character is flat and claims there is structural problems with the film. So I feel like Megan, we should really just start with, why
Megan: do you love this movie? 'cause I be personally, I was the exact same age as these characters when this film came out and I don't think I realized.
Megan: At the time. Cause I feel like it came out in theaters and I probably saw it a year later
Julia: that because you were in Canada and this is,
Megan: I mean, movies would generally get released on the same, but I don't know. I don't have a comparison of seeing movies in the U S compared to Canada, but I feel like they do get released at the same time.
Megan: Just not as many theaters. But I would just see, I just recall seeing it on me. It's like, I remember putting a tape into the, so I feel like it was a year later and it was like retrospect. I was like, oh, this was kind of my life in a way, like watching it. I'd forgotten about so much of it. The car that he drives is it.
Megan: I think it's a Chevy Malibu. High school boyfriend actually drove one of those. And I was like, what? Like, I didn't get it at the time. Like I think I just saw it all later, but really. I think what I loved most of all, um, about it was, and maybe it's still thinking now, I don't know. Cause I'm so far removed from high school, but it's like, oh, there's the jocks and there's the brains and there's the cheerleaders and there's the arts people.
Megan: And there's like, everybody was in their boxes. Pretty well defined, but you didn't go outside those lines. And I kind of forgot, you know, how that, how that was. And I love that story of those boundaries in lines start to blur together and that, um, Diane and Lloyd get together and she kind of. Gives him a shot and she never really, I don't know if she fully explained why she does that, but there's something she just trusts about it.
Megan: And I feel like that's the nature of love. Like that's the nature of trust when we're just like, I don't know what it is about this person or this, this situation, but I want to explore more about those people who take that leap. That's kind of sometimes where all that magic happens. Cause we're always told, you know, longterm divorce rates and.
Megan: That's actually the whole other thing and be watching this before I get too off topic. I'm like, I actually really want to know why Diane's parents divorced because they don't get into that. I feel like they never reveal that. And divorce was so common in the eighties that they, there was no need to do it because it was just like, well, this is happening everywhere.
Megan: So. Have to get into it anymore. But a lot of people will say, a marriage is doomed to fail. If you don't have all this stuff in common. So like, if you're both jock or you're both breeds, you know, this is the recipe time from the same church, the same community, the same neighborhood. Those are all the things in your favor.
Megan: And so I feel like with Floyd and Diane, because they weren't. You know, rebuffing, all those things and people are like, you're doomed, you're doomed. And they probably had the best intentions. Um, but it's not necessarily what's best for the people. I
Julia: think people didn't give Lloyd enough credit because he is an army brat because he's constantly having to grow and change and adapt that maybe he could adapt.
Megan: Yeah. And, and heard too, like when you think about how much he had to adapt through. Her parents divorcing and also his situation like he's living with his sister whose husband left her and he's like, kind of co-parenting his nephew, you know, like they really were coming from totally fragmented families.
Megan: So they actually had. And calm. And that could have been explored more in the movie. Like if Diane had met his nephew or it spent time together, I feel like that that could have been another connection point.
Julia: You know, what's interesting about you bringing up how they never explain why the parents are divorced.
Julia: It didn't occur to me to think about it until like, after the fact when I was sort of debriefing in my brain about it, like, cause there's that scene with her mom where she's like, When dad's getting picked up from the IRS and she's like, and she's like, mom, please just be, you know, kind about daddy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Julia: And she was like, I'm not basically, the mom was like, I'm not surprised your dad's getting busted by the IRS IRS. That was the tone I, I took. So that's kind of the extent of what you get about the,
Megan: uh, Issues
between
Julia: the, between the two of them. Cause Diane's telling Lloyd about it, but from her perspective as a child, not, you know, the being in the relationship with her parents and it is interesting that she chose her dad over her mom that you don't, I don't know if we, I don't know if that happens a lot.
Julia: I feel like a lot of the kids I knew whose parents were divorcing, they wanted to. Stay with mom
Megan: more. I feel like that's not knowing a ton about family court. I, I feel like they do usually prioritize moms, you know, and the things that I've, I've heard about, um, that, so yeah, it, it stood out to me at the time.
Megan: It still stands out to me now as something that's a low again, that's another thing that's a little off the beaten track of what you expect and now it just made me think. Ferris Bueller's day off. And I know we're not talking about this movie, but I feel like it was made around the
Julia: similar time. Yeah.
Julia: Ferris Bueller, I think is 86.
Megan: Oh yeah. Okay. So a few years, a few years later, right? Because this was 1989. Yeah. And there's something about, like, with that, it was more like, I felt like those were totally unparented kids and in this insane anything. Oh. And also. That was that's so sorry. So close to the beginning of the movie where her dad says, you know, you can say anything to me.
Megan: That's actually, I was like, wait, no, I thought that was totally between her and Lloyd, but it was actually between her and her father. Yeah. Oh yeah. Cause they were super, super close and I feel like that's also something I sure didn't see. Like I had one friend growing up in the eighties who I'd say had maybe that kind of relationship.
Megan: Her dad, but also like her mom was around too. And so I feel like just to see a father and daughter that were that close, I had never seen anything like that screen before. And so I liked it because of what it showed was possible.
Julia: Right. And we'll get into that and a little bit, oh, high school love and the innocence of it all can feel so fulsome, even when you layer the complexity of their lives in because their life experience is still a vacuum.
Julia: Roger Ebert's review had this to say, quote, the romance between Diana and Lloyd is intelligent and filled with. That special curiosity that happens when two young people find each other not only attractive, but interesting. When they sense, they might actually be able to learn something useful from the other person and this particular theme isn't new to people being from different worlds, parental concerns about being worthy, compatible longevity.
Julia: Et cetera. These always come into play. So I want to talk a little bit about this because all too often, parents just don't understand, comes into play with high school stories. But in this one, it feels a little different to me. So do you think the story theme would work if the two main characters were from the same.
Megan: Almost not at all. I kinda think it's because their worlds were so, so different. And that was constantly, um, the tension I was listening to another park at the Titus. I swear I was listening to another podcast and somebody asked someone what their favorite show was. Frazier. Oh, I love Frazier. I love Frazier too.
Megan: And I was like, they asked the person, why do you love it? And they're like, cause it's that tension? Like, there's that Daphne and Niles, like, there's always just like, you know, there's about this next thing to happen. And you know, that it's friction and it's like, it's funnier because you know that existing friction.
Megan: So you can sort of anticipate where it's going to go, but it's like, it's endlessly entertaining because it's still really funny how it. Plays out. And I think that's what happens when you know that there's a tension going, going on there. And also because third, I feel like. Diane's character was expected to be so worldly, inexperienced and smart.
Megan: Like here she is like, has this really progressive relationship with her dad? And she's got these scholarships and she's the valedictorian. And she's the president of this, this, this, and that club. So, of course she's going to go far, right? There's this assumption that she has everything. Whereas with Lloyd, he was, every time he looked at him, he was just so genuine and heartfelt and he like, he's so good with little kids and he wants to make it his mission to just like, love Diane.
Megan: Don't think there's a person who can see him expressing that. That's a really earnest life. Like I think it's okay that you just wants to, um, love to. And so if, if you'd been like the equal, you know, brain or whatever, or even
Julia: just social class, right. Like the social class.
Megan: Yeah. That, that tension. Wouldn't be there.
Megan: And I think the tension helps to like amplify their relationship and like the stakes are higher. So it's more exciting as a story to see if they pass or fail or, um, fly or fall. Based on that tension
Julia: I was thinking about too. Like he could totally, his parents didn't have to live in Germany. Like they could have just all been living in that apartment.
Julia: Right. Like he could still be lost even if his parents were. Living in the community with him, like living in the Seattle close proximity. What have you, cause you, they never explained, oh, PS friends at home. John Cusack is also in this movie, his delightful sister. And that always makes me happy because I feel like she's always in one of his movies and
Megan: it makes me so happy.
Megan: Yes. I love that that there's siblings. And so when movies together, I would love to be fireside with them one time, right. In the chat.
Julia: Um, but you know, even in her situation, like, you know, she's got this child in like his parents, his father isn't in the picture. So, so clearly, like, even if. Even if Lloyd's parents weren't out of the country, they're still at a different level than like, cause John Mahoney's, I'm assuming I was, I assumed he was the business owner.
Julia: Like he owned the old folks home. Like I didn't think it was a part of a frame, like a bigger conglomerate. I thought he started the, like, I got the impression that he started the company in that, that. So there's a difference between, you know, being a business owner, not that there's anything wrong with people joining the army and being in the armed services, like that's whatever, but it, in where I live, there's definitely joining the military is definitely, um, a way out of poverty for a lot of people in my community, because there's not a whole lot of opportunity here.
Julia: And I, I I'd be curious, like, A little bit more about like where they originated from Lloyd and his family, because Seattle has a lot of opportunity. And I don't know if it did. I mean, I feel like it has always had a lot of opportunity comparatively to some other areas
Megan: and on-screen. There was a few scenes where I'm like, that is California.
Megan: I get that in Seattle. And I meant to like dig into it a bit more and was one to now. Cause there's, there's a couple of scenes when he's packing to leave to go to the airport. Later, I don't want to spoil anything, but I don't know how much we talk about the movie is
Julia: over 30 years. It's okay. It's not our fault if they haven't
Megan: seen it yet.
Megan: Yeah. The scene where he's packing with his sister to go to the airport and they show this view out the window and I'm like, that is Hollywood hit. Like, those are California Hills. There's no way that is Seattle. But when they show the pan shots and like, obviously that Seattle, but even their street scenes are driving around.
Megan: I'm pretty sure that Cisco or LA, I don't know, but I want to, um, look that up, but I feel like you're right. The access point to growing up is very different in, in those worlds too. Like you said, like going into the military, I almost feel. It's that divide that still exists with kids that go to four year colleges and those that go to community colleges.
Megan: Right. And there was, I know in Canada, it's also very different than here, um, where I grew up. So if you went to like college, it was trade school. And if you went to university, it was a four year degree. And I know that's not necessarily the case here. Everything's
Julia: college here.
Megan: Yeah, I know. We were so confused when we first moved here.
Megan: Cause I'm just like, I always say university. It's called no
Julia: university. We have it wrong. We, as in us Americans, we should be calling it university. Yeah.
Megan: Um, but yeah, I feel like it was a little bit of that. Cause she's like, oh, she won this scholarship. She's going to go overseas. And that's kind of the whole thing about the characters being from the same world, even the position that Diane was placed in.
Megan: That was the thing that stood out to me the most about how this movie aged and not in a, in a bad way, but it calls out like the expectation she's going to do so well, she's going to go international. She's going to have this great career. She's going to travel the world that as a woman, she's like still expected to like be working in, serving in the.
Megan: Um, home that her dad, like there is still. They didn't show a whole lot about their home life. But I was like, is the expectation that she's still going to be a wife and mother and doing like domestically oriented things while at the same time being like a Fulbright scholar or whatever it is. And like that's a double burden that I think is really placed on women.
Megan: And then Lloyd coming in and saying, well, I just want to be here to take care of her and love her. And that's the one. Usually we ask women to play in movies. So I think that was part of the tension of the story. Like, wait, who's this guy who's so good with little kids. And he's really good with old people.
Megan: And he wants to take care of her. Nobody knew what to do with that. And even though they loved it and it made him really charged with. It just throws everything, right? Like all the gender roles up into the air. And I love that. Like, I love seeing it now, like that age, so well. Yeah.
Julia: Do you think that this is why we love John Cusack so much because he played Lloyd cause he, I mean, he really can't do anything wrong in my
Megan: mind.
Megan: My, um, I worked with somebody who dated him very briefly, very briefly. Um, when he was filming a movie in Alberta and Canada and Calgary, Alberta, and I still remember her telling me this story. And I was like, what? She's like they've met in this bar during the Calgary stampede. For whatever reason was like wanting to hang out with her, like Marlboros and sh and she said the whole night, it was nonstop, nonstop women, like coming up over and over for autographs.
Megan: And she was like, it gets, it does get really irritating after a bit. Cause she was like, I wasn't interested in talking to him. And eventually they just had to like leave and people were trailing them and this isn't CA. Pretty famously people will leave you alone. So a lot of starters will go there because even if people recognize you, they're kind of like, Hey, I'm, so-and-so, you know, it's not like mug media.
Megan: Um, but yeah. Wow. Only six degrees of separation. Yeah. I
Julia: love that. I love that. I think it'd be interesting. He seems like such a genuine guy. And when I was doing research for our episode and I just, you know, I can't think of a John Cusack movie. I didn't enjoy if I'm going to be honest. Um, you know, he had a lot of really sweet things to say just generally, like he's always very positive.
Julia: Cat like his coworkers and he's just, and two, it says something when you constantly are willing to work with your sibling, I don't know.
Megan: It's weird, but it's quirky. Like cute. Weird. Yeah. I just love it. This scenes of them together. I was like, oh shit. So, I mean, they're just looked like babies, um, that she was so, um, as our friend Tammy was saying, she's so classically beautiful, but there's something about that eighties, hair and makeup, this whole movie, actually, that's one of the things I loved about this movie.
Megan: So. I know they were wearing makeup and they had their hair done, but it's not like other eighties movies. I feel like other eighties movies, the hair was like so extreme. It's so much makeup on. And the clothes were like, so it's like an album cover, you know, like it wasn't people being themselves. And then this one I'm like, it's just that.
Megan: 13. And they're like everything, just my Hollywood. Perfect.
Julia: Yeah, because weren't you the one saying like the nice thing about eighties movies is that everyone was still like, you know, people weren't, what did, how did you phrase it? They, everyone was still kind of soft. Yeah. Is that how you feel? Cause you know, now you watch these teen movies and everyone's ripped and you're just like, listen, nobody in high school has a body like that.
Julia: Like that is not an okay thing to be telling our children.
Megan: It's so true. Everything is just chiseled to perfection. And like their faiths is now too. You can tell like people in their teens and twenties have had surgery on their. A lot of reasons for that. I don't want to throw shade on, on equal for making choices and their acting careers, but it made me realize how like untouched in a certain sense, those were like, you just look the way you look and if your teeth weren't perfect or your skin wasn't absolutely perfect.
Megan: Or your body wasn't like a size two, like people, the. I feel like more body diversity too. And I was really feeling like, oh God, it's something. So something racist happened in this movie and it does it. There's like, oh, there's, there's some black kids at the party. It's like, he has diverse kids and it's like karate class.
Megan: I was like, oh, okay. That was all scared. It was going to come up with something awful. Like it was just genuinely a really nice, I feel like it's all actually a whole.
Julia: Yeah, I agree. I agree. Definitely captured. I think that post high school, romantic summer, you know, life is on the cusp of two coming of age, life change situation in a way that feels true and like real, not forced, um, not contrived just very much like this is a realistic situation that could happen, you know, and I thought it was sweet.
Julia: Somebody asked her at the party. Or a later on, I forget when the scene happened, somebody asked her at the party why Lloyd? And she's like, you know, he made me laugh and I, you know, and she was just so happy that somebody was like willing to like crack a joke so she could chuckle, like, that's adorable.
Megan: It really there's something about being able to laugh with.
Megan: I feel like a partner who can always like, see the brighter side of things, always scores a lot more points. Right. Because you see everything differently because of the way they can see things. It's not always about like, what's right in front of your face, plain face, literally face value, right? Like.
Megan: There might be a chink in there, like aesthetic armor, but like, you're going to appreciate like the intelligence and the wit and all those things that they bring to the table that makes them so much more attractive.
Julia: Totally makes them so much more attractive. Like he can be a beautiful person on the outside, but if there's nothing inside, we've got a problem.
Julia: I need to have a conversation. That's actually a reoccurring theme in my dating life. My friend, a really good friend of mine. She is always like, you, you hit word, you need to find somebody like, like I'll start dating somebody and I'll tell them, you know, filler fill in the details and she'll be like, oh, that's nice.
Julia: And then when things kind of fizzle out, she's like, yeah, I know what fizzle does. So give me please. And it's always ends up being like something like you're you're going to get bored is essentially the theme. I feel like I've run through every eligible
Megan: and there's the fashion thing. Can I tell you? I forgot about his like rain coat with his like high top shoes and his like baggy sweat pants. I don't know. That is kind of attractive. Like, I feel like there was a whole look, uh, look to that, to, that was just like, it was kind of completely unpacked together.
Megan: Almost like maybe even thrift store finds or something, but I dunno, combined with his personality and like earnestness and eyes and humor and. You know, the ghetto blaster scene, like, yeah. He's
Julia: just, he's just adorable. You know what I thought about when I was watching this cause like, okay. 1989, that little boy looks like he be between the ages of like three and five.
Julia: Like I could have totally played
Megan: her daughter. Yes. Where is he now? I would love
Julia: to know where he is now. We need to look him up. 'cause I'm like, did you keep out? He was so adorable with this little blonde mullet, so cute.
Megan: It's probably like, no. It's like Sean asked. That would
Julia: be hilarious if it was OMG RA, I gotta pull it by MTP real quick.
Julia: Standby. Don't worry. It's on it's my frequently used
Megan: tabs. I believe it. You know what? That reminded me of his best. Oh my gosh. What's her name? She's the one. Yes, he was trying to get over Joe and Joe
Julia: Lily. Taylor is,
Megan: yes. I love her and I forgot how much I really love her. And also that trope of, of her and Joe, like that's very real.
Megan: And present day. Like, I feel like that happens to people over and over and over again.
Julia: I wrote 63 songs about Joe.
Megan: Right. But then he keeps coming around that like, I love that Lloyd stands up to him too to say, can you just leave her alone already? Cause she's written these 63 songs, so we don't want to hear about it anymore.
Megan: And like he makes light of it. But at the same time, it's like, we've all had, we've all either been that person or we've all had that friend who's gone. Through that, and it's just torture. It's just torture to keep rebounding.
Julia: It really is that actress. I forgot she was in a, and she's been in a ton of stuff.
Julia: And then Eric Stoltz makes it like a cameo, which I think one of the quotes I pulled talks about that. And then, um, Pamela Adlon. She had a different last name in the credits in the movie, but I was like, why does that actress look like, feel very familiar. She's done a ton of stuff. She's like voiced. The king of the hell, the little boy on king of the hill.
Julia: She's the voice of, she has her own show now on better things. She's done a lot of stuff with an actor that kind of hit a little bit of a issue and whatever. Um, but she's actually like kind of famous and I totally completely forgot. She had this tiny minor role in this movie and it was, and then when the credits rolled, I was like, Pamela.
Julia: So I hit the, I am DB and I was like, Pamela hotline, like de. So that was exciting for me.
Megan: Yeah. There's people actually, we had a discussion the other day, my partner about this, and we were saying that I'd love to be one of those Hollywood people. Like you don't really know their name and you kind of know their face, but they've been in like 150 movies.
Megan: Yeah. And they probably have had a bully great life and made a really great living. Yeah, doing what they love, but like, no, one's going to run them down the street, like with cameras, like they can go to Costco, you know, live their life and do whatever and, and just be fine. I'm like, like those aggregates don't get enough credit because they have steadily worked.
Megan: They've probably worked a lot more than the big actors. Cause they've always played these like kind of minor roles, but consistently. And so they're like formed in your psyche as, you know, part of the American landscape or at least the movie land. Yeah, they've had normal lives. It's like the
Julia: dad and the new Bel-Air series.
Julia: And it's like, this guy feels familiar, but I can't, couldn't tell you who he was. Look them up on IMDP. He has 154 screenings.
Megan: When I'm saying,
Julia: you know, 44 years old, 47 years old or something. And I was just, well, I failed, but also good
Megan: for you. Nice. See, that's what it's all about. I think the aim is for so many, it's like, you have to be.
Megan: On the cover of people and yeah. Maybe married to Tom cruise or that, you know, like there's that whole, you know what I mean? Like these dreams of, of stardom and I'm like, that probably wouldn't be that much fun.
Julia: No, we just recorded. I just recorded an episode about Amanda Bynes with some friends. And when I was doing research on her Shelia 25 screen credit, like actor credits, and I was like, that's it for the level of stardom that she became and still kind of is.
Julia: That's you've only been in it. Two of them are there. Three of them are TV shows. So that's, you know, a couple of years worth of work, but still the point is, is compared to, again, like some of these other actors and actresses that were just like, that person feels familiar why, and we don't really know their name off the top of our heads, but then here's Amanda Bynes who.
Julia: Well, we had 25 screen credits
Megan: or like Gabrielle union. We talked about her recently on, on an episode she's I can't even go to the drug store. Feminine products or whatever personal needs she may have, because it becomes like a front page story somewhere, or it means she's pregnant or it means her marriage just like, it all means something.
Megan: You can just do the activities of normal everyday life. And I was like,
Julia: yeah, that's why those gossip things are really dangerous too, because it creates a whole level. You know, what does this mean? And it's like, it means that I needed,
Megan: yeah,
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Julia: When looking for retrospectives at the 30 year mark for say anything, there really wasn't a lot, which actually surprised me. The Hollywood reporter threw their hat in, of course, because that's what they do. One thing I thought was beautiful in their interviewing of the cast was John Cusack's observation about Diana and her father.
Julia: He said in the article quote, one of the very underrated parts of the film is just how great the story works. Uh, father and daughter story, Kuzak said besides the love story with the two characters, I think the acting with John Mahoney and I own is incredible and kind of underrated in a weird way. If you can have something that's underrated in a movie that's so beloved, he said, and this was in April of 2019.
Julia: So this is almost exactly 30 years later. So I want to like dive in a little bit more. We touched on it a little bit earlier, but I want to dive in a little bit more about the relationship between Diana and her father, because. I mean, she full on tells them that they sleep together and I thought, oh my God, would I ever, no, I still deny to this day that I in front of my parents,
Megan: I forgot about that scene and full on screech cap gold, like in the room.
Megan: Richard came running out and he's like, what? I was like, I totally forgot about this scene. I, I attacked him anyway. And like the look on his face, like everything and I, the same thing I'm like, I don't know that I've ever had that. That honest have a conversation with any parental type. I mean, to make matters worse.
Megan: I mean, my was raised by my, my biological grandparents, so guaranteed that kind of conversation was not going to reach that level of honesty ever. And, um, but at the same time, like they kind of think it's cool. I like, I love. She could say anything like going back to that first time, he says that the movie, you know, you can tell me anything and I'm like, yeah, I bet you're regretting that.
Megan: Now
Julia: the other thing that kind of stood out to me was how, okay, so earlier in the movie, you know, he's walking around, um, Lloyd's at the house. Having dinner with dad and associates and Diane, and then they're talking about the jukebox and all the other things, the house. And he's like, oh yeah, the two box, blah, blah, blah.
Julia: And then somehow it gets brought up that he, like, what he paid for the two box was like $9,000 or something like that. And then later when she's in the IRS office and he's like, like it's so casual and just kind of like out there real how quick they throw, like anything that's like less than 9,000, like a, roughly $9,000.
Julia: And I was.
Julia: And then, but she was smart. She's a smart girl. And she was like, no, you're not going to trick me into saying something about my dad. And that loyalty she had in the various throughout pretty much the bulk of the movie until,
Megan: yeah. It was clear that the strength of their relationship was, um, wanting to see her just keep standing up for her bad.
Megan: And I think her knowing deep down that he wanted a really good life for her and wanted what was best. For her. And even though ultimately what he did was wrong, that to see like how the hell Dawn, as long as she possibly could to the idea that, um, he didn't do what everyone else was telling her that he did.
Megan: So that specialness of their relationship, I think, helped contribute towards that. Like just believing in somebody at lunch is pretty, it's pretty special. Yeah. I agree.
Julia: Cause it's not too often that we see in pop culture, like. 'cause I felt like the relationship with semi-healthy in terms of some other ones that we've seen between parent children.
Julia: Um, he was just a normal guy who had expectations of his daughter and she met those expectations and wanted to meet those expectations. Um, like there was a scene where she called home and every, when they were at a party and they were like, oh my God, you called home crying. When you go home.
Megan: Yeah, but that, that actually, I'm glad that you brought that up because he just had this as long as you call me and tell me you're okay.
Megan: And like, check in, like do what you want. Like she she'd leave and be like, I'll see you in the morning with the expectation she was going to be gone all night. There's no, I don't think that's the norm in most hosts and teen teen parent households, because they're just like, you need to be back by 11 o'clock or whatever the curfew is.
Megan: Like, you certainly can't stay out all night. So the level of trust. You know that they kind of had, and again, exemplified by her coming out to her father when she's eventually intimate with Lloyd was like, yeah, I feel like that that's uncommon. Yeah.
Julia: I still had a curfew even after I graduated high school.
Julia: So it's like, must be nice.
Megan: Diane must be nice. There was some Nellie think back to it. I'm trying to think back to high school. There's kind of a bit of, I went to two different high schools and lived in like three different residential situations while I was in high school. And they were all very, very different.
Megan: And so I feel like I had, when I was with my grandparents was super strict. Like you're going to the dance and it goes from seven to nine. You'd be back by nine 15. Like literally the time it takes you to get home. That's when you need to be here. When I lived with my uncle, my cousin. And another province.
Megan: Um, I'm going to be like, see at three, like go have fun and I'd be like, I don't like it I'd come home at one 30. Like I'm dying. Like my friends will have to be home, so it's time to go to bed. And then when I was in, I was in actually in residence in like a boarding situation for my final year of high school.
Megan: And they. I had a curfew. You had to clock in at a certain time. Oh my God, it'd be like 1158. And you just see like 50 girls running up to the door to try to get in. Because if you were even a minute late, you get written up. So first year of college was like nuts, right? Because now everybody can do whatever they want.
Megan: And I feel like. Those party scenes. Like when I think of college movies that get that's a whole other discussion, I'm sure you can have. And that's a big part of that because people are like, kids are so repressed at home and there's so much they're not allowed to do because of their parents' fear. What they'll get up to that, all that stuff just happens in college anyway, because they just know nuts in their first year.
Megan: It's like the write off
Julia: here. Yeah, like in the party scene where they're a key master key master and everyone throws their keys in a bag. And I was just
Megan: like,
Julia: Yeah, what a magical world the
Megan: eighties were. I didn't remember that scene at all. I totally didn't remember that scene at all. And I loved how he checked on her.
Megan: Like she was like, see, she's making a tram. Okay. Like he's not crowding her. Yeah. Not creepy stalker. Like who are you talking to? Yeah.
Julia: Stage five clinger situation. I've had one of those where you're just like, okay.
Julia: You're cute, but not cute enough to be this clingy, bro. Like, come on. Yeah, they were sweet. Oh
Megan: no, I just want to watch that again.
Julia: It doesn't help. Unreal unrealistic fantasies that my life could be just the most perfect idyllic romcom or romantic movie that isn't overtly grotesque in any way, shape or form.
Julia: Like, just keep reaffirming those ideals. Say anything.
Megan: Go ahead. Oh.
Julia: The other thing that I thought was interesting. And I mentioned this a little bit before, a little bit ago too, was how Diane's mom basically wasn't surprised about her dad being, um, involved with the IRS, like the IRS coming for her dad.
Julia: So again, it makes you wonder, like, What kind of person he is with his daughter. And is he being genuine because like other people are just, well, and ex-wives are a hard one to convince that anyone's positive to, I guess, cause that stare that portrayal of like the Xs hating each other is such a strong trope that it's hard to break away from that.
Julia: I think even in reality
Megan: now I totally. We
Julia: are supported by Maya, my yoga audio, looking for a great read and a great listen. Then you want to read the short but powerful life and death memoir by Meagan Morgan called the end of me. It's about Meagan's three brushes with death. And believe me, when I say that it is meant to be a movie one day friends.
Julia: Also check out Meagan's interviews with wellness professionals and creatives, as well as yoga and meditation classes on her podcast. Maya, my yoga audio, you can find the book and the podcast on our website, my yoga audio.com. Turn into my yoga audio. Wherever you listen to this podcast and buy the book directly for Meagan.
Julia: The end of me is also available on Amazon Barnes and noble and other major online book retailers. It can be really hard to not watch movies from a different decade with the current era lens, but at the same time, those of us old enough to live through the status quo of Hollywood filmmaking can have a complicated relationship with movies of the past.
Julia: The boombox scene in the film is referenced often in romcoms or other points of pop culture and John Cusack's image, holding the now Relic of an item above his head with the look of earnest and love is ingrained in. Culture infamy, but with all the re-examination is going on, we must include say anything.
Julia: So, and you already kind of touched on this. You already mentioned it earlier, but did this movie each well,
Megan: it did. I feel like it, it really did. Um, and it goes back to those, like even just today or yesterday and like a popular account that I've fallen into. Talked about like calling the radio station in the 1990s, like the early nineties to call and request your favorite song.
Megan: And then two hours later, it comes on. Like we had such a personal relationship with music and I don't know about you. Cause I know like we have a bit of an age gap, but like me and my friends, me and my boyfriend, we used to make each other mix tapes and like mail them. Like if we weren't in the same town, I get mixed tapes from like my best friend who lived in England at the time.
Megan: So she'd send me all the new music I was happening in England and then I'd make stuff. Um, cause I lived close to the border with Detroit. So there'd be like all this really cool stuff in there and I'd send it to my cousin who lived. West cause music always traveled or how I've always learned it. Music always traveled slower out west than from east.
Megan: So she'd have this brand new stuff and she'd bring it to a party and she'd be like the cool kid. Cause she had this stuff that was from England and a tray. It was just, um, that scene with the ghetto last year. Um, encompass so much of that, right? Cause you could listen to the radio, you could play your own mix tape and make it so personal to connect with that person.
Megan: And also I totally remembered the CNO wrong. Like in my head that memory of him holding up to get a Lester was the end of the movie. I'm like they're together forever. And that was the romantic moment and blah, blah, blah. I'm like that. It's not even, it's like the three quarter markers.
Julia: It's his, it's his big, big gesture.
Julia: Yeah, which I thought was really sweet. I agree. I think it ages well, and I think a lot of that is because they are so focused on the core. Diane and Lloyd rather than the surrounding, right? Like, so, because you're dealing with intra intra personal rather than right. Interpersonal, um, rather than the external, it really makes a difference in how a movie can age.
Julia: Um, and I, and I think that if we were to drop this movie now with current stars, not, I don't think you'd have to change a thing about the script, maybe. Well, cause cause the other day was like, well, yeah, like the main characters are wide and the dad's wide and the mom's white it's also Seattle is just so brilliant.
Julia: Yeah. Um, but like you mentioned, there were people at the party who were, you know, there are people of color at the party. And, um, I really do think that you could drop it in. Now with current celebrities that are, you know, 20 something playing high school kids, and it would still work,
Megan: you know, you haven't that make me think of now.
Megan: It's like if they remade it in that time period in Detroit, like how different that means that what would the lead song be just from growing up there? Like, yes, I knew in your eyes, by Peter Gabriel, like the back of my hand. But the other songs that were popular at that time, I want to say like cameo and.
Megan: Yeah, like prince and Michael Jackson. And when I think of, um, the black artists or artists of color that were more popular at that time, like what would that look like in that community? Yeah know, and it's, it's not a criticism of this movie. No, it just has my brain thinking of besides house party. Like that's the only one I can think of that has kind of like a mostly black cop black cast.
Megan: Um, but again, very different kind of setting and genre, but I was like, what? I've seen anything more. You know, in a predominantly African-American or Latino community or an Asian community, unlike was it 16 candles that age so badly, like the whole narrative. Yes. That's, that's what I was holding my breath and say anything.
Megan: I was like, did that happen? They wiped it from my memory. And I was so relieved that it didn't cause you know, watching those other ones back, I'm like, oh, I love these movies, but this is so wrong. Big. Big old, but
Julia: yeah, cause it's comp we have a complicated relationship with them. Cause people, I would say like even people five years younger than me, we never really started that conversation of examining these movies until 2015 ish.
Julia: So you've got a couple of generations now who grew up on those films where you're just like, Listen, we didn't know it was icky until somebody said, and I'm sorry. I was 30 something when I realized that,
Megan: which is terrible. It took watching it with my kids probably. Five years ago, six years ago, shortly after we moved to Sacramento.
Megan: And we did like a whole John Hughes festival over Christmas holiday season. And they were like, they were just like, I can't believe you watch this stuff. These were kids movies in the eighties. And I'm like, well, they were like teen slash adult movies and they agreed same thing. Like there's parts of them that are really, really good.
Megan: And they like the storylines, but they're just like, that's not okay. And that's not okay. Very cool to have those conversations with my kids and for them to point it out. And I'm like, but I felt it too. Like even at the time I was like, oh, it's just like, you know, feeling that comes up and now we know how to name it and point it out and say what was wrong.
Megan: But like cap back in that time, it was, it was just
Julia: norm. It's not, I mean, yeah, I do. Um, idea though, about what would this move you look like in a different setting, because music is such a huge part of teenager hood, hood teenhood yeah. Words are hard. Um, and you know, when you were talking about how you, your friends and you would send mixed tapes to each other and you know, all that stuff, that's like such a fine art that is lost.
Julia: We would make, you know, I was at the cusp of. 'cause I know CDs were introduced in the eighties and whatnot, but you still had to be fairly wealthy to afford a CD player in CDs. Right? Like they really started coming into common practice and like, you know, more in the nineties, but we still had, we would still make mix tapes for people and it was not like.
Julia: Oh, I'm going to take it from the CD to put it on the mix tape. It was like, I'm going to wait for the song to come on the radio and work really hard to not get the DJ
Megan: voice. Yeah. Press both buttons down to record.
Julia: And then in our house, we would put the tape over the punched out part. So you could record over whatever that tape was.
Julia: If we couldn't find more blink tapes and you know that that's an art form. It's translated to an extent in streaming world, but it's not the same because, you know, with streaming you can put something on shuffle and the order changes for what you know, and artists
Megan: and Adele with you hear about that.
Megan: Yeah. She
Julia: made a kind of a stink to Spotify and was like, please don't let them shuffle. I'm very careful about how I curate this list. And I felt that because it was like, yeah. Cause when you make a playlist for somebody. And in her case, it's millions of people, but like that, one-on-one like I have a crush.
Julia: I like you, or are you're my best friend. And I'm making a list specifically for you. You're very intentional about that order. And there's something super romantic about it. Not just romantic, like, Ooh, I love you, but like the intimacy of a friendship too, to know that you are like, Being very diligent in what you're giving to them.
Julia: I wish that level of artistry still existed.
Megan: It's so true. It's very, it is. It's a very curated experience. Like that's like very formal language, but music has the power. And so to movies to write, to bring you back to that moment, I think. That brought me back to that moment and watching it. And I was just like, even the way that felt, because it was filmed like in 1989, this was still film and I know it's been digitized and actually that was the thing it's on HBO.
Megan: I think that's what I watched it on. Yeah, it looks so good. There's so many, um, 1980s films that I've watched through. They're not really digitized. So it's just like stretched film and it looked terrible. And I was like, oh, and it's sort of like, this is just such poor quality and, and it's not. So seeing something that's been like artfully redone to still capture like the colors and the film called, I don't know.
Megan: But I don't have the brain to know. I do all those things, but I feel like this is the first 1980s film that I've seen where they've kind of done it, justice, that you kind of feel like you've been transported to that time without, without it seeming like the lack of technology was so bad. It's a term of technology more than anything else, the lighting, everything.
Megan: It was just also, it's a bit of a battle. But when the, when, um, Diane was talking with the IRS and they were saying, oh, did you have nice things in your house, but not too nice. And like nothing over 10,000, $9,000 or whatever it was. And I almost feel like that's a playbook. Um, it was a starting of a playbook of what they tell women to watch out for now, like Tinder, swindlers, and like, you know, all these, these warning signs of like, of a potentially predatory partner.
Megan: And it was in her dad. And yet here was her dad telling her don't trust lawyer, but it was really her dad who was doing that trustworthy behavior. Yeah. And so just to me, I connect back all those things. I'm like, that was just sort of the beginning of those types of conversations happening. And, um, yeah, anyway, maybe it marked a wave of what was to come next, but just to help women be, um, more aware of what's going on around them and never thinking that your own dad could be, somebody's pulling one over on
Julia: you.
Julia: Right, right. Oh, that's a really great observation. I love that because again, you know, we watch some, we watch things so often and so regularly, especially the older things that you kind of forget. And Molly. And I bring, I bring, I brought this up a couple of times on this season, but you know, Molly Ringwald really puts into perspective that era of high school, eighties movies, because she called it out in her new Yorker article with this didn't exist for us.
Julia: We had afterschool specials that were cheesy and
Megan: kind of. Dom. Yep. And
Julia: that was it. That's why this is so revolutionary. And then kids today don't realize that because they didn't, they've always grown up with content specifically for them, you know, like I think when I think back to just even my own childhood, like sure.
Julia: We had TGI Friday on, you know, ABC 10 and then we had Saturday morning cartoons. TJF was still family friendly. It wasn't specifically for children, right? Like the Disney channel now has like Disney Jr. And like all these channels that are very specific content for that age group. And that just did not exist 40 years ago in any way, shape
Megan: or form.
Megan: To help in Canada, you're going to laugh. So we did not have MTV, um, at all, or like B E T any of that, we had a show called video hits and this blonde woman named Samantha. I can't remember what her last name was. I still remember her to this day. And she would like sit on this couch and be like, and next we're going to hear from Cindy lopper.
Megan: And then they put on like, girls just want to have fun or whatever. And it was just, but it was so exciting. Like that's the only like curated afterschool kind of teen focused show. And then the original Degrassi series, Cressey junior high, um, one. But other than that, and like you said, Saturday morning cartoons and, and stuff like that.
Megan: Really that curated experience we did there was after-school special, but you had to have special cable, which we didn't have. So if I babysat and happened to be at four o'clock, then I'd see it. But Nope, I didn't see most of those.
Julia: It's a, it's a, these kids today,
Megan: they don't know how good they got it. It got everything,
Julia: everything that channels just for this.
Julia: No, they don't have total request live. So that just makes me sad for them. Cause that shit was awesome. My best friend Abbey, they had cable, they lived down the street and it's like, let's go to all these house and we'd put it on. And it was just the greatest.
Megan: Oh, you know, all the people just, you know, anyway, I wonder if that's, I feel like Canada.
Megan: I don't want to speak out of turn because I don't know enough about it, but much music. So we didn't have MTV, but eventually we got much music, which was basically modeled after MTV. And then Toronto got speakers corner, which I have heard the reviving. And it was literally like a phone booth looking thing on the corner of, I think it was king and Spadina, which is like this major intersection.
Megan: And you could go and just say whatever, like you could record up to like 10 minutes and then this radio station and this TV station would just play excerpts of it, like late at night.
Julia: I see a lot of Lloyd Doppler in William Miller from almost famous. And I kind of love that. So that to me says that when.
Julia: Cameron Crowe writes about love. He has a very specific type of guy in mind. And so now it makes me wonder, is he like that guy? Because to see men portrayed. As sweet and kind and caring and loving and not malicious or all about them is such a far cry from what we see traditionally in romance, in love stories and romcoms that it's kind of like, whoa, like.
Julia: Here's a theme like w as we went down the line of what Cameron Crowe had done, you know, the William Miller's and the lawyer dabblers of the world are the exception. They're not the rule, but it should be the rule
Megan: I think, to help make it the norm. Like, I like to think. Like Cameron co was kind of advocating for that, like a new way of thinking about masculinity.
Megan: Maybe we're giving him more credit than is deserved, but the more we're talking about it and thinking about it and seeing the similarities and those characters I'm like, was that a grownup like Doppler and. You know, I want to go watch. I want to go watch that again. I love almost
Julia: famous. It's so
Megan: good. I haven't seen it.
Megan: It's just been years. I watch it every year.
Megan: Billy
Julia: Crudup is so beautiful in that movie. I mean, physically like his characters kind of trashed, but yeah. That's like looking at them in a seventies, retro style. It makes me happy. Sorry, Billy. Crudup I know that you're human. I should be more generous. Anyway, Meagan, thank you so much for joining me today.
Julia: I'm so happy to have you back. I love when you stopped by and I just love our conversations in general. Can you please remind our friends at home where they can find you if they want to keep up with you?
Megan: A couple of places, my main, um, Instagram. Loving this life. L U V I N T H I S L I F E. And, um, I also host a podcast called my yoga audio, which Julia has been a guest on.
Megan: So you can head over and listen to that episode in any of the others. Um, and that's my yoga audio.com or on Instagram. It's my.yoga audio.
Julia: Awesome. And we will put all the links to the show notes so you can easily find Meagan. Friends until next time. Thanks for tuning in y'all.
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