Bring It On | 15
Show Notes:
Bring it On was first released on August 22, 2000, and stars Kirsten Dunst, Eliza Dushku, Jesse Bradford, and Gabrielle Union just to name a few. Set in sunny San Diego, this film leaped and cheered its way into the ether and into our hearts.
This movie is about more than cheerleading and its legacy sometimes gets away from that!
This week host Julia Washington is joined by Tami Hackbarth and they GET INTO IT! Cultural appropriation, socioeconomic status, and so much more.
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The Host: Julia Washington
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Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous where we discuss pop culture through the lens of race or gender. And sometimes both. I'm your host, Julia Washington. And on today's show Tami Hackbarth is here and we're talking about, bring it on
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Julia: Bring it on was first released on August 22nd, 2000 and stars, Kirsten Dunst, Eliza Dushku, Jesse Bradford and Gabrielle union. Just to name a few sat in sunny, San Diego, this film leaped and chaired its way into the ether and into our hearts. But before we dive in, let me introduce you to my guest. Tami Hackbarth is the host of the 100% guilt-free self-care podcast and friends.
Julia: You may or may not remember me promoting it on our Instagram because I have been a guest of that show in her work as a life work coach. She works with women who want to get their time and energy back so they can go after their big dreams and create the world they want to live in. She is a certified life coach through UC Davis extension coaches, women privately, and is the host of deferred maintenance, a group coaching experience for women who put their own self care last.
Julia: So basically every woman welcome to the show. Tell me,
Tami: thank you. I am so happy to be here. And so, so happy to talk about this movie. I'm
Julia: excited. You're here for our friends at home. They don't know that we are friends in real life. So when the two of the best worlds collide,
Tami: it's so good. And so is this, can we just talk about, I just have to say this?
Tami: Yeah, fuck. Every reviewer who didn't love this. I'm just going to say it straight away.
Julia: Yeah. Listen, I support you in that sentiment. And we're actually going to dive into that a little bit too, because I've got thoughts and we're going to just, we're just going to, we're going to get in. We're going to get in.
Julia: So let's dive into a really quick summary for our friends who may be, haven't seen it. And I don't know what you're doing with your life because the movie is 22 years old. So here's a summary from bringing it on friends. The summary is from Google. I did not have the time to write my own creative summary, so I apologize in advance, but Google gets all the credit for this.
Julia: Here we go. The Torah, the Torah cheerleading squad from Rancho Carney high school in San Diego has got spirits, spunk, SAS, and a killer routine. That's sure to land them the national championship trophy for the sixth year in a row. But for newly elected team, captain Torrens, the Toro's road to total cheer glory takes a shady turn.
Julia: When she discovers that their perfectly choreographed routines were in fact stolen from the clovers, a hip
Tami: hop squad from east Compton by
Julia: the Toros former captain. Thank you for that rousing. Um, summary Google. Okay. At the time of its earliest, critics had a lot to say, Roger Ebert gave the film two stars and offered this and his August 25th, 2000 review quote, bring it on shows every evidence of being life as a potentially funny hard-edged R-rated comedy there's raunchy language.
Julia: I have new locker room scene jokes about sex and those startling cheerleader songs. I smiled at the songs. I might've enjoyed the movie. If it had developed along the lines of animal house or American pie, instead, we get a strange mutant beast of half Nickelodeon movie, half rated R comedy. It's like kids with potty mouth playing grownup.
Julia: So this leads me to believe that fever doesn't get it. And after several episodes in and quoting his reviews, I'm beginning to think this Pulitzer prize winner is a bit of a misogynist, but that might require a deeper study of his work. In the meantime, critic reviews were all over the place. The San Francisco Chronicle said the film had truly lame dialogue.
Julia: The LA times called it a crackling good script, sharply directed, but the New York times had the best observation in my opinion. The fact that the bouncy teenage sports comedy can even gesture towards serious matters of race and economic inequality is pretty impressive as is the occasional snarl of genuine satire.
Julia: But I want to start with an easy question, Tammy, let's talk about why you love this
Tami: movie.
Tami: Julia. I was, uh, letter girl at de Anza high school in Richmond, California in the eighties. And I will just say that seeing this movie, this movie came out when I was 30 years old, I thought my God. They watching us now and rewatching it 22 years later, I thought the dialogue does suck. The dialogue is some of it is very dated.
Tami: It's like super duper
Julia: duper.
Tami: It needs, it needs a refresh.
Julia: Yeah. Cause some of the dialogue you're just like, oh, you, you cannot say that ever. And I think it probably wasn't okay in 2000, but we let it slide because we didn't know anybody.
Tami: It was the dialogue. Some of the dialogue, especially, um, around LBGTQ was rural bad, real bad.
Tami: I mean, there were some, yeah, there was like a high school boy. Uh, sexism still gross. It was gross in high school. It's still gross. I don't know if it's gross in high school now. Cause I'm not in high school, but you know, maybe that's something that goes through. So I was a cheerleader. I did actually go to cheerleading camp.
Tami: Yes. There was a spirit stick. Was there, there is a spirit stick, uh, superstition.
Julia: Oh gee.
Tami: Um, we, my squad. Okay. So my squad, there was three squads at my school. The cheerleaders red wore red uniforms and they just did like the yelling on the sidelines. Great. Then there was another squad. And then everybody had seven, seven or eight, and then there was another squad.
Tami: They were white uniforms and they had pom-poms and they were called song leaders. Huh? I don't know why, but they also did like sexy halftime dancing thing. And then the squad I was on were the letter girls. And so we were, our colors were red, gold and white, and right. Our uniforms were that golden rod color with the red and the white.
Tami: And so we alternated, uh, doing halftime routines at both football and basketball, as well as rally routines with the song leaders. So like one relatively, they would be the ones shaking their butts and their short skirts, uh, during. Second period, rally. And then they, other than the next rally, it would be our turn.
Tami: And so, um, when I saw it, when I saw this movie, I was like, okay, I can totally legit see people stealing routines. And as someone who grew up in Richmond, California, and the middle eighties, our routine, our squad, my squad in particular, we call ourselves salt, pepper, and paprika because there were white girls, black girls and Filipino girls.
Tami: And so it was a mix. We were all ages. We were all races. We all wore that same stupid yellow uniform. And we vacillate our routines were either, uh, you know, I'll just tell you, you could tell who chose the music, because like we did a routine to push it. We did a routine to weird science, bilingual Boingo and then the one I, the other one that sticks out is, um, you spin me round.
Tami: Yes, exactly. Yes. And that we actually took, uh, we did that routine at cheerleading camp, which is completely insane. And the other commonality is we also, which is very unusual. We had a boy surely. My year. I only did it one year.
Julia: Oh, I bet he got harassed because even in 2000 boy, cheerleaders are being hurt.
Julia: Like that's what that's huge part of the movie is the guide cheerleaders are getting harassed by the football team.
Tami: Absolutely. And he shut it down this way. Good for him. He's shut it down by saying, well, I went to cheerleading camp and was the only dude there, there were hundreds of cheerleaders and I was the only guy there.
Tami: How was your summer fellows? Did you guys all hang out together? I was like good for you, FJ. Yeah.
Julia: Yeah, that's smart. I love that. Um, can you tell our friends who may not be familiar with Richmond? I've had my car broken, well, not my car, the car there used to be this club, a punk club in Richmond that we used to go to all the time.
Julia: So called
Tami: girl, if I could remember 20 years
Julia: ago, I wouldn't be able to tell you, but, um, it was not in a part of town. If my parents know is there, they'd be thrilled about, um, but, but you know, people, I mean, it was very much like, uh, don't leave anything in your car. Neighborhood where we would
Tami: go. I still don't leave things in my car.
Tami: What are you saying? I mean,
Julia: I live, I have a false sense of security because of the way that I live allows it. So I'm like, there's all kinds of shit in my car often, but it was like, like the club we went to, it was like 30 and the floor was sticky and the walls were painted black and they were painted like this neon color.
Julia: So that way the, you know, it was just a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. If my child wanted to go to a venue like that, now I'd be like, no, the fuck you're not.
Tami: And I'm like harmless fun, a little black paint, never heard anyone.
Julia: Well, and that's only because I'm like, I remember what some of the guys were doing in the bathroom.
Julia: Like, no, you
Tami: can't go okay. That I, that I can concur with. Okay. So, uh, Richmond is. And was a very blue collar town. It is right on the San Francisco bay. Lots of people moved to Richmond, El Sobrante, which means the leftovers from the dust bowl. And, um, a lot of people came west to words. It was this the kind of question you were answering.
Tami: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah, because that California, they assume, oh, LA or San Francisco. So trying to fill in the blanks.
Tami: Okay. Imagine that, imagine San Francisco and how beautiful it is, everyone. Right? It's like this, it's this tiny, you're thinking of the golden golden coy tower. It's gorgeous. The fog rolling in. Carl's rolling in.
Tami: Absolutely. And then right across the bay is Oakland, which is a very industry. Also there's like a warehouses and a port and manufacturing and a bridge and all that jazz. And then a little bit east from there as Richmond. And a lot of people came to Richmond in the forties, especially after world war II, because you could get a cheap house through the GI bill and you could work at standard oil, AKA Chevron.
Tami: My grandpa worked there for 37 years. They could
Julia: have a good
Tami: pension, right? It's like you have a union job in this town, yada, yada, yada, uh, but back in the day and it could be still today, right? Uh, there was the black side of town, the white side of town, and then the immigrant part of town. And now there's a lot more immigrants from Mexico and.
Tami: Central America. But when I was growing up very black, very white and, um, like Filipino families and Indian families coming over to work at companies like Bechtle and San Francisco, where you come and you, uh, you you're like, I was an engineer in my original country, and now I'm coming to California to be an, uh, an engineer here also because there's a special workspaces for like people who have special talents, special skills.
Tami: Um, and so growing up like half my school was not white. And
Julia: whereas my school barely had a black student union cause there was like eight of us. I mean, I'm not laughing because it's funny, I'm laughing because you know, there's, there's, you know, hints of trauma there.
Tami: Well, totally. And what's interesting is because I, obviously I am white, but having grown up in this very, very.
Tami: Mixed area PS, there was still a lot of bullshit, still a lot of bullshit because white supremacy likes to follow everyone around. But nobody that I grew up with could, could claim to not know other people of other races because you sat next to them in geometry. Oh, speaking of geometry, I'm like, let me just Dame drop.
Tami: So other people from where I'm from, uh, John Kiffmeyer sat, John. Kay. You're like who the fuck is John? Hey, El Sobrante. The first drummer of green day in geometry in high school was also in my second grade class. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Kurt Hamot from Metallica went to my high school.
Julia: I just saw Metallica in October of 20, 20, twice.
Tami: Right. Les Claypool from Primus. Oh my God. It was a great place to grow up and get cause it's and it's interesting. Um, because I had a lot of white friends because I'm white, but I also had a lot of friends who weren't white. And so I went to other people's houses and ate other kinds of food and saw how other people live.
Tami: Do you know what I mean? And it was an interesting experience and what's shocking to me now is that everyone didn't have that. Uh, everyone didn't have that. Right.
Julia: Um, people here think that Richmond like might as well be calm. Or the stereotypes of Compton, right? Like,
Tami: we'll just say that people in the bay area, especially then also thought that.
Tami: Sure. Um, I will just say that there's a town next to Richmond called San Pablo. And at one point they had the highest murder rate in the United States. And I, when I moved to SAC, um, when I moved to Sacramento, I went down to this very fancy gym downtown and this very handsome gentleman was helping me like get set up and stuff.
Tami: And I don't know why. Oh, I asked him, I was like, what brought you to Sacramento? Because I'm convinced nobody is actually from anywhere where they actually are. And he said, oh, football. I'm like, oh really? That's interesting. Football. I know it was like, I'm going to need judge's ruling what? And he said, oh yeah.
Tami: Anyway, it was like, it was a get recruited kind of deal. I mean, I won't bore you with the details cause I can't fucking remember them because I was like, I don't care. He was just like handsome and sparkly. And then I was like, oh, interesting. And he's like, yeah, but I grew up in the bay area and I was like, oh, really aware.
Tami: And he said Oakland. And I said, oh, I grew up in Richmond. And he went like this
Julia: really?
Tami: And I said, does it track? Right? And I was like, let's play a little game of who do you know? It's like, okay. And I said, where'd you go to high school? And he said skyline. And I was like, That's the fancy school. He's like, where'd you go to high school? And I said, DeAnza and he's like, that is not a fancy school.
Tami: We played them. I was like, and I was like, and I was there in the eighties and he was like, damn you don't you'll look like you're from Richmond. I was like, all the people say that. And I'm like, what does that mean? What does that mean? But because I don't look like I'm from Richmond. I have been on the other side of conversations where I'm like, I'm sorry.
Tami: Did you say that out loud? Oh, people
Julia: can hear you. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think it's important. Like one of my biggest pet peeves about people's perceptions of California, I mean, bring it on totally feeds into it, right? Like this whole idea, like San Diego, there's a very specific type of view of San Diego and the Rancho Carnegie pupil totally live up to that stereotype,
Tami: but not.
Tami: Uh, main meat. Every time they're like Rancho
Julia: high school. I'm like, well, I need tacos now is
Tami: that I am like, how's your, your school is housemate Rancho meat,
Julia: but it's my biggest pet peeve. Whenever we watch movies and someone's like moving from like Wisconsin or like Arizona, and they fucking drive over the golden gate bridge to get to San Francisco.
Julia: And I'm like, you are not coming from Arizona, driving over the golden gate bridge to get to San Francisco. Stop doing that.
Julia: My biggest pet peeve, Tammy,
Tami: if we're going to be Y well, and it's funny, cause I'm like, so you have a geometry, a geography pet peeve. And I have a, there's only white people in California and everybody's super liberal. W where does that place exist? I grew up in the bay area and I heard some racist shoot that doesn't track.
Tami: I mean, relative to other places. Sure. There is a lot more progressive politics here. Please do not think that we are a monolith. There are 40,000 people, or excuse me, counties. No, there's 58 counties and 40 million people who live here.
Julia: 8,000 people. What is this?
Tami: 1852. I know. I'm like there's 40,000 books in this room.
Tami: Now. It's a lot. You guys it's a lot. So if you're not from California, it's not bay watch. It's not what other shows settings. It's not even bring it on.
Julia: It's not, it's not even though I do think that they feed into the stereo. We are looking for advertising partners. When you support this podcast, you're supporting a woman owned BiPAP, small business.
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Julia: This film was written by Jessica Ben nigger and directed by Peyton Reed. PS patriotism is male. Since who has since directed movies like ant man. Yes, man. And down with love at the time he had been best known for Mr. Show when a film's leading characters are female written by females. It is my observation that they tend to be fleshed out characters.
Julia: Often male writers make women two dimensional and settled into tropes, but when there's a female writer and a male director interpreting her vision, some things can get lost. So overwhelmingly nearly every critic review of the time commented on help bouncy. The girls were portrayed sexual innuendos of bound to refer to Ebert's review again, he says, quote, bring it on yet.
Julia: Another example of the most depressing trend of the summer of 2000, this cynical attempt by Hollywood to cram R-rated material into PG 13 rated movies and equipped. So the balance between raw. And being the right rating to get the right audience seems to be in conflict here, but in a 20 year retrospective refinery, 21 released six things you never knew about bring it on 20 years later, where readers learned that Ben Digger wanted to direct the movie.
Julia: So I can't help, but wonder if this film was shepherded by a female director, how do you think it would be different in the attempts at sexual humor? Cause do you remember that scene when homeboy stretching out Eliza and it's very much the missionary position with her leg up. And I was like, and at the time I'm like, I don't get the joke cause I was 16 and not having sex now.
Julia: I'm like, oh, is this what everyone was talking about? About inappropriate jokes?
Tami: I'm just going to say this. I grew up in the eighties. And I'm just telling you high school was R rated it. I mean, there, you know, those memes that are like, we grew up in, but we were rolling around in the back of the truck and huffing fumes and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Your parents can send you to the store to buy them cigarettes.
Tami: So I think it was a different time that being said, God, if it was a female director, I don't know. It is funny because part of me is like, okay, I feel like, I feel like some of the. Sex sexual humor could have been toned down. It could have just been cut out because it was like super flawless. It was like white, like just like we didn't need it.
Tami: Like this film actually could have just been about the relationships between the squads. It could've been about female power. It could about, about insecurity. It could've been about all of these things with out. Any of that
Julia: nonsense. 'cause there there's another scene too, where he's like that one, the one, the straight cheerleaders, like sometimes it digits slips and you're just like, isn't that kind of bordering on like sexual assault
Julia: and she's in the girls just like, you know, and you're just like,
Julia: And also, it's not funny
Tami: also. Will I be showing us maybe to my daughter? No. Will I be showing her 16 candles? No. Will I be showing her breakfast club? Probably not. But do you have any, like, things were different back then? Um, I just, I felt like that whole, that like the boys storyline, I was like,
Julia: was it necessary?
Tami: It felt unnecessary. It just, it felt like fodder for more like homophobe.
Julia: Bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. Cause like, so there are some scenes when I was rewatching it in preparation for our conversation where I was just like, you know, I, there, I think there could have been better ways through the lens of being a director.
Julia: Not that I am a director, but you know, I'm not on a feature film situation, but I have my fair share of video projects under my belt, um, where it's like, you could have done that same exact scene, but in a way that wasn't
Julia: in a way that wasn't like, I dunno, bordering on sexual assault or like, or actual sexual assault
Tami: or like lazy. Yes. Yeah. Because that
Julia: assumption of like, oh, they're cheerleaders. And so you, of course, they're going to run around half naked in workout clothes all the time. Like, that's kind of how
Tami: hard it's true, but
Julia: that doesn't give you license to phone it in.
Julia: And it kind of bothers me that he's gone on to like direct, like
Tami: bigger shit.
Tami: I'm like mess. Of course. You know? I mean, I felt like that, I felt like the whole guy part was lazy.
Tami: Except was it cliff?
Julia: Yeah. '
Tami: cause he was so cute. He was the interesting new guy. He was the one that had the good taste in music. And he was, it's like a class
Julia: shirt when they first met. And she had no idea who they were. That was my favorite. I was like, cute.
Tami: Exactly. Like you're cute. And also like
Julia: Jesse Bradford.
Julia: He's so cute.
Tami: So cute. Um, yeah. I, I only
Julia: non-growth boy in the movie. Did you already say that?
Tami: No, I think, no, I didn't. I mean, Torrance's boyfriend was a douchey. I mean, he was very, very Eddie Haskell. Very like, I want everyone to like me. Oops. I'm gay. I'm like it just part of it. You're just like, it's so juvenile.
Tami: Can we move beyond like super juvenile shit, because there was so many good parts of this movie. There were so many great themes. There was so much great conversation that like, it's a little embarrassing. It's like,
Julia: well, it's like the, what the New York times guy was saying, right? Like he nailed it on the head with calling out how like that basically you're stealing it's cultural appropriation. It's having, it's the conversation of, um, economic and it, you know, um, so all the inequalities words are
Tami: words are hard, but what I think what you're getting at is the discrepancy between the haves, the have nots, the intersection of race, class, gender.
Tami: Yes. The intersection of, um, white guilt. Yeah. And. Black female anger. Yeah. Like there was so many things that could have been even just like only having the snapshot of the actual competitions. Do you know what I mean? Like I get just, it could have been smarter. Let's put it that way. Like there was parts where I'm like, I hate when people do the obvious when you're like, but you, you had great source material.
Tami: Why do you have to like dumb it down?
Julia: Yeah. And I think that might be part of a byproduct and I'm generalizing of who the director was because it's not his baby. He's not invested in it. He is seeing it through the lens of like, oh, I'm making assumptions on how he's seeing the lens he's looking through.
Julia: But based on the final product, You know, the New York times author of that article gets it. Everyone else doesn't get it. And I think that's a by-product of directorial decisions.
Tami: Okay. But who's, here's the question. And this is what I wanted to say earlier is who do you think the target audience for this movie is?
Julia: That's a really great question because you know, they're seniors in high school and it's about cheerleaders where they trying to tap into that summer teen market in the two thousands, because think about all the movies that came out in 2000, 1999, 2000, I mean, that was a big summer. Those two years alone were huge
Tami: for us also.
Tami: Can we remember? That was when the fucking end of the world was coming course, we're going to have every goddamn teenage movie, like every remake of every love story, like it's all happening because it was just going to crash because the computers did not have the capability for that fourth digit dammit.
Tami: And so it was going to all end, right? Like. So, but I, and it's funny because I was shocked. I saw this. I don't even remember how I saw it to be perfectly honest, but I remember maybe it was like, I was just like flipping through and it was on TV or something and I watched it and I was riveted. Yeah. Yes.
Julia: Because how is it going to end? What's the pay off?
Tami: Yeah. Are they going to get caught? I mean, as soon as, okay. I didn't know that anything going into this, and as soon as I saw the routine, I was like, that's not their routine. Yeah. Don't even know song. Right. And it's before everything was online. So you could, you know what I mean?
Tami: Like where you actually had to go places, you, you met your friends places and if you were going to be late, that was it. Your friends were just fucking sitting there waiting for you because you couldn't text them. Like, there's a lot of context that I think is missing. Um, because you can't put a 20, 22 lens over.
Tami: A big part of the movie and the big part of the movie is like the appropriation. Let's just call it what it is, stealing something from someone else and claiming it as your own that could never happen now. And in,
Julia: and in the way, I mean, it does kind of happen, but it can't happen in the same way. Right.
Julia: Because
Tami: you can't have it in secret.
Julia: Yeah, exactly. Because if it hadn't been for Missy who came from LA, who competed against east Compton, Rancho Carnegie would have stayed in the dark about the fact that big red was stealing routines all this time. Because when are they going to play? They're not in the same league, literal districts.
Julia: They're not in the same district.
Tami: Julia, the other part that just this movie gripped me, you know, who the target audience was, Tami. Hackbarth check this out. So. When I was a freshman and sophomore in high school, my high school DeAnza was in the Richmond, Berkeley athletic league. I got
Tami: people
Julia: from California know people from our parts of California. No.
Tami: Okay. I had the biggest crush on this dude, swimmer from Berkeley high, or I was just like all heart. I emojis. Like I invented it. Oh my God. Oh my God. Anyhow. And then in my junior year, Our boy's basketball team went to state that year.
Tami: And one very exciting. They played at the Oakland Coliseum. Anyhow, uh, we first, I don't know what district decision makers thought. This was a good idea. We left the Richmond, Berkeley athletically, and we went to the Alka Lonnie's league. And the alkaline is school district is in Walnut Creek, Orinda Moraga.
Julia: I have a running joke in the family that I need to go to Walnut Creek to find my sugar. Daddy who's appropriately aged that I actually want to spend time with. Like, that's a literal joke because that's where I would go to find him. I
Tami: will just say this. We went from playing schools that looked like us very mixed, very blue collar, small, whatever, to like playing the rich kids.
Tami: Like I was like our real limit of a John Hughes movie. All of a sudden what the fuck is happening? I kid you not. So my senior year is the year that I was a letter girl. And you might be asking yourself, well, why were you gonna let her bro girl before you clearly love this? Because I had poor academic grades people because I was too busy cutting school to get my shit together.
Tami: So I could do this and I wanted to do it because it was super fun, blah, blah, blah. It's not because I'm a stuck up bitch. It's because it's actually hard work and it's fun. It's a great bonding experience. If you're on the right team squad, um,
Tami: we meet. And my girl, Tess, and a couple of friends were leaving a football game. And these girls in a convertible BMW
Tami: drove by us, said some racial slurs out and you know what happened? We ran after them. And I think they wet their pants.
Julia: Yeah. Cause they basically like, so the equivalent in, bring it on is you're going to pump our gas someday.
Tami: They did that chair stalk. They did that chair to us. They did that chair to us.
Tami: I am not kidding. I am not kidding. When I was like, what the fuck is.
Julia: Yes. Oh my gosh.
Tami: And people like you're going to pump our guests someday. There is some cheer where the opposing cheerleading squad comes to the other side of the field and does some like sassy, like
Julia: that's okay. You're a good guest some day basically implying that.
Julia: Cause you know, for friends who don't remember, you used to actually have somebody pump your gas for you in California.
Tami: And who are those people? Julia
Julia: gas pump truck.
Tami: jockey blue collar, blue collar, well working people, perhaps people of color, it was such an asshole and have to edit that part out. I'm coming from the
Julia: context of like, because in how, how to marry a millionaire, the millionaire guy, it keeps, she keeps calling him that gas pump jockey. I'm not going to go out on a date with him.
Julia: He's what he can buy me a hamburger, blah, blah, blah. And then at the end of the movie, because, because of the way he's dressed, right? Like she feels that way about him because of the way he's dressed. It's all about appearance. Like he's wearing a sport coat, like. Uh, refined millionaire. Like some of these cattle guys they run with.
Julia: And then at the end of the movie, he pulls out a wad of cash and you're just like, and everyone passes out. Cause they're shocked that this person could look like this and be a millionaire. So I apologize for potentially being offense for having been offensive. It was not okay. And I will do better next
Tami: time.
Tami: Thank you. Thank you. The point being is going to bring it all right. Pack. Who's the target audience for bringing it for bringing on Tami? Hackbarth like, again, I don't remember seeing this. I, but I will tell you the first time I saw. I did call him a girl test. And I was like, what the fuck have you seen this cheerleader movie?
Tami: And she's like, girl, it is us. It is us. It is us. I was like, I know it was crazy town because was there, uh, I don't
Julia: recall cheerleader specific link. They may reference some, one of the articles. I found about another cheerleader movie from like the seventies. But honestly, when I read the name, I was like, the fuck is that movie, like, who is, who, who are you movie reviewer that you're pulling some movie that literally nobody knows about turf to make reference.
Julia: Maybe in 2000 people didn't know about it, but in 2022, I was like, I don't know what the fuck this movie is.
Tami: I don't remember what it was. And I don't think I knew what it was then. All I know is having again,
Tami: that cheerleading camp thing is. I I've never watched dance moms or anything, but I feel like there's some like connection to, like, you got half grown adults, all dressed the same cutesy hair bows the whole, like the whole shebang. Cause you, cause you got your uniform, you haven't gotten your uniform yet.
Tami: Cause these fucking things are expensive and it takes a while. And because they stitch your name on them and they like, there's a thing. Like it takes a while you get measured, you do the thing and it, it doesn't come before you go to Chile and camp. And we went to UC Santa Cruz for, for cheerleading camp.
Tami: And I was like,
Tami: but while I was there, um, Like, I got to witness how this chili thing happened at other schools. And I was like, oh, I don't, I don't think I would have done it somewhere else. Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. Cause it's totally different. And you see that too, between the Toros and the clovers, like the clovers, like this person, this review on Google calling them like a cheerleader, hip hop squad, first of all.
Julia: Okay. But they definitely have a different vibe. They're definitely more fun. They're more like they're a little bit more. Let me put it this way. Rancho Carney is so buttoned up that when you watch them do the birds cold in here, and then you see the clovers do duper it's cold in here. You're like, no, honey, that's how it's done.
Julia: Like, I don't know what you Toros think you were doing, but that wasn't it
Tami: again, if you know nothing about music, if you know nothing about cheerleading that first senior. These things do not belong together. These do not belong together. One of the things,
Julia: things is not like
Tami: the other, like there's no, there's no connecting these dots. These dots are wrong. Like, I, this is, I would like to speak to the manager because this is said, like somebody poured coffee in my IC.
Tami: I don't know, but this is wrong. What's happening here. These things don't belong together. And I'd like to get down to business to find out where does this thing actually belong because it's not here. Right? The other thing I did not enjoy, um, is, and maybe I didn't enjoy it because I saw some of it in real life, but not, but it's again, it's weird going to cheer camp.
Tami: You get to witness a lot of weird shit. Uh, and it was weird shit because I didn't become a cheerleader because I want it to be the most popular. Like there wasn't, I didn't feel like
Tami: people who were cheerleaders at my school were assholes. Sure. We were, uh, people who apparently, um, it wasn't like we were the most popular people, but we were people who were like, you know, what sounds fun, going to every single game, wearing a short skirt for free, for free and shaking our asses. Maybe there's a little exhibition assist in all of us.
Tami: Maybe, maybe, but it wasn't like the whole big red and the like, be mean to all the girls and the, this and the, that, that,
Julia: wasn't your experience. That wasn't my experience. It's kind of makes me sad that like, like we could do a whole episode alone on big red. That girl was. Not balanced.
Tami: I was going to say touched,
Julia: which leads us to later. EBIT went on to say that, bring it on is the citizen Kane of cheerleader movies. But that doesn't change the fact that he initially didn't get it. And AOL Scott from the New York times did, but regardless of critic, understanding it doesn't change. The fact that Torrance Shipman's world is turned upside down when she learns the truth behind her team's champion status.
Julia: There's a few scenes. I want to point out one when big red confronts torrents, after the first competition at regionals, their routine, they hired. Torrance has learned that the routine was stolen from the Clover. So they hire this guy
Tami: so bad.
Julia: 13 is so bad and it gives a bad name to spirit fingers. Big red is furious.
Julia: Torrance has decided to not use the routine, even within the Glovers were there. Y'all like, come on. The second scene, I want to point out is when torrents brings a check for the entrance fee, so the clovers can compete. It could be argued that she sees this as righting a wrong, but I have an issue with it, but we'll get into that later.
Julia: What could women do? Who are not people of color learn from Torrance's experience her mistakes, her efforts, as she embarks on this journey of discovering injustice exists in her world. Because I feel like Torrance is doing all the things that she thinks is right, but they keep missing the mark.
Tami: You mean.
Tami: Like she doesn't like her world is over like, like it's, but then again, okay, so I'm going to say yes. And she is young. It is a long time ago. We have come a long way in the last 22 years in a lot of ways it's cringy. Right. But how many conversations did you have? In the summer of 2020 that we're fucking cringy because people woke the fuck up for the very first time when you're waking up to anything for the first time, let's just say we are unsophisticated.
Tami: I handle things. Well thing they're very, very rudimentary there,
Julia: however, or, um, that's a fancy, but however, with that said, I feel like if you're 40, 35, 25 is like the cutoff for me. Like if you're 35, 45 55, and you're just now realizing there's injustice. If 2020 was your awakening and you were like in your thirties or older, that's a problem.
Tami: I will just say as a white woman at a lot of conversations over the last few years, That were very uncomfortable because I just wanted to grab people by the lapels and go, where the fuck have you been? Yes. Yes. And, and that is a bit that is, uh, I'll take this. I will have those conversations with people.
Tami: So you don't have to, it is a bit like when you finally call someone and they're like, it's about fucking time you called me. And you're like, okay, well it's a yes. And I'm hella late to the party. Uh, fuck some shit up on the way here I have arrived. I'm going to try not to knock some more shit over and make it about me going to try not to make it about me.
Tami: It's it's like a toddler with a bottle of booze and a cigarette. You're like, you don't have enough experience with this. Just put it down, put it down, put it down. You're not, you're not ready for this action. Please and
Julia: observe. Yeah. And, and I feel like Torrens, his age is kind of her saving grace, right?
Julia: Because she doesn't hurt. She's 16, 18, 17. She doesn't, she's a senior in high school. So her life experience is like this big and I'm holding my fingers like a half an inch apart for our viewers at home, yours at home,
Tami: her entire existence has been in this white bubble. Very
Julia: privileged, very, very isolated, you know, it's.
Julia: Yeah. So I give her some grace in that and I do, and I think that towards the end, you know, she does like, she, her, she convinces her dad to write a check. So that way the clovers can go cause they couldn't raise the money and time to go to nationals. That's. Fine and dandy. I think, I think, like I said earlier, I think that's her way of writing.
Julia: What she sees is a wrong, but it also kind of had a savior complex to it for me. Maybe that's why it bothered me instead of like, being like, okay, how can we help you get the money? It was like, here, I got the money for you. And it should have been more like that's not empowering when someone just gives it to you.
Julia: That's not empowering.
Tami: Well, it's also like here's a check to make me feel better. Yes. Right. And so, and it's one action. So one of the things I'm like, so let's, if we were going to bring these seniors in 2000 with us, and now they're 40, how is like, what's torrent's doing, is she working at the ACLU? Did her, did her great awakening last, last right?
Tami: Um, is big red on the real Housewives of. Rancho Carney. Right? Like, because I don't think it's fair to be like, okay, at this time this happened. Yeah. It's I think it's still think it's a yes. And
Tami: because if you notice everyone around her still an asshole. Yeah. Like you should
Julia: have taken the routine anyway. And then, and then when it's like, um, when everyone's like, oh, you know, the clovers couldn't get the money. And everyone's like, great. We're like, we're going to win now. And Torrance's is like, no, if we're going to be the best we have to compete against the best.
Julia: And everyone else was like, who gives a shit that they couldn't make it? And she's like, you should give a
Tami: shit. They didn't make it. I mean, how many times have you wanted to wear a shirt that says I shouldn't have to tell you. To care about other people.
Julia: Yes. And that's, and I feel like it's such a great what's the word is analogy the right for like how life is because you have the one person who's like, oh, I see it now.
Julia: Why doesn't anybody else see it? It's
Tami: never has no clothes on. Right. And so the kid's like he's naked, he's naked his leg. And there was like, quiet yourself. We did not want to change. Yeah. Things are fine where we are. Do you like my accent? Where the fuck did that come from? I guess it's talking about royalty.
Tami: Cause we
Julia: have to get a little high
Tami: faluting, but it is that, I mean, it's also interesting that the kids who come from the other side of the tracks, Missy and cliff are the ones who were like, uh, Thing already ha like they, you know, so they're, they're like, it says, I'm trying to think of it in terms of the hero's journey, right.
Tami: Torrance is not going on the shit by herself. Right. Like, so really who's the hero here is not Torrance. I mean, we could argue that it is actually Missy.
Julia: Ooh. Oh. I say you're going to go in a different direction. Unpack that Missy for
Tami: me. Well, just that, like she's like I went on a journey compared to these knuckleheads.
Tami: I went on a journey I have now come back. Okay. Now I have to drag you with me and now I'm coming back. You know what I mean? And then coming and saying, Hey, this is the real deal. This is the, and then I think Torrance's, uh, She's kind of caught in the crossfire in a way she did not go looking for this.
Tami: Right. She didn't never questioned anything. She didn't question where the routines came from. She didn't, she, in her mind, they were the best like unchallenged. They were the best because they had been given this crown of being the best. So, I don't know if Torrens is really the hero at all. Right.
Julia: I thought you were going to go in the direction of clovers because in the end they do win, which makes everybody happy.
Julia: And if I ruined that for you listeners at home, I'm sorry, the movies 22 years old, and there's like six sequels. So it was your
Tami: fault. And I'm trying to watch one of the sequels. I was terrible, terrible mess with SQLs.
Julia: Cause they completely move away from the whole core of the story, which is what the times calls out or call, you know, calls to attention of being what the story is about.
Julia: And everyone else just kind of missing it, which is ironic.
Tami: Well, what's so funny is I feel like people have given me shit about loving this movie, but I'm like, it's not a fucking movie about cheerleading chat. Fuck.
Julia: Right.
Tami: I mean, that's, that's really, the real thing is here's a hint. It's not a boot cheerleading.
Julia: He used by Juul offers, custom artwork and original prints, specializing in watercolor, focusing on the human form and different shades of skin. If you're looking for that perfect gift for a birthday or have a special memory you'd like to commemorate visit Hughes by Juul on Instagram, or find the Etsy shop of the same name that's Hughes, H
Tami: U E
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Julia: And the times review I mentioned earlier, AAO Scott touches on race and economic inequality. He leads with this statement a whole movie, rather than just a subplot might have been devoted to east constant struggle for recognition and to the out of uniform lives of ISIS. His squad played with Gusto by the members of the singing group, black, as it is, the clovers are on hand to serve as symbols of a complexity.
Julia: The movie isn't quite able to explore. They're better dancers and better athletes than their white counterparts and also for their gumption. And self-sufficiency the agents of a white girls, moral awakening, which we've touched on. Yes. In the summer of 20, 20, 20 years after this film's release the great white awakening.
Julia: Bookstores could barely keep books on race on their selves. White Americans were shocked and appalled by what was happening in America and appeared to be eager to learn in September of 2021 entertainment weekly ran an article wherein they recapped Gabrielle union's at parents on good morning America.
Julia: When she was asked about her role on, in bring it on. She said, quote, I was given full reign to do whatever I wanted with ISIS and bring it on. And I chose respectability and to be classy and take the high road, because I felt like that would make her be appropriate. The right kind of black. Black girls aren't allowed to be angry, demonstrably angry.
Julia: And I muscled her to black Americans. The events of 2020 were of no surprise, but for white America, the world seemed to come crashing in and Pandora's box was open conversations that were in corners of the internet. Like cultural appropriation were now front and center in major publications. So my question is this, if bringing on had been a serious movie gritty and deeply dramatic, do you think people would have paid better attention to the fact that this teen rot movie called out injustice that had at this point already been happening for several decades?
Tami: I, you know, what's funny is I don't even know who the fuck saw this movie.
Tami: Like I'm being a hundred percent real, like. I'm still like, who were they making this movie
Julia: for? I went and saw it in the theater. I don't know if I saw it when it like the weekend it opened, but it definitely was
Tami: like, wait, how old were you? In
Julia: 2000? I was 16 years old.
Tami: Ask me every movie that happened in 1986.
Tami: I also saw it in the movie theater. That's when I was 16
Julia: at the time, our summers were still in August. Like we didn't go back to school until after labor day, my same high school. Now these children start the second week of August. It's bullshit. So like I'm solidly in summer. So we probably went and saw it.
Julia: We probably saw it at the Briggs Moore movie theater, which is now a safe way, which is hilarious because it was a safe way, way back when, and before it became a movie theaters talk about full circle, but it wasn't that far from our house. So we probably walked to the movie theater. We probably paid our $3 to see it.
Tami: Right. You're like, we're going to see whatever's here. There's air conditioning and other teenagers.
Julia: Five screens at the time. So it was like, not even, I think maybe there was like four. I dunno. So, but I loved it. I went out, I had the soundtrack, I bought it, I had it on VHS. And then I upgraded DVG when they came out on DVD.
Julia: Like my DVD of bringing on is so old that like, I think that I was worried the plastic
Tami: was gonna break. I have to say like, you know, people have a list of movies that they'll watch, no matter, like when they come on, if they catch it from the beginning, they dropped their plans. I just sit down and watch it.
Tami: They watched the last, the whole shebang. They like do other stuff, bring it on is one of those movies for me. Um, although I do want to mute everyone who isn't torrents Missy cliff or the clovers, you know, and I feel like.
Julia: That's what gets in the way of people seeing the truth about the movie?
Tami: Well, that and people are, they had their buckets wedged pretty firmly on their heads because, okay.
Tami: I going to try not to pull a muscle, rolling my eyes, but I have been told on numerous occasions that I see too many things into things and culture. Why can't it just be a movie about cheerleading
Julia: because it's not well, and that's the thing, Tammy, you and I are in the same boat. I get told that shit all the time.
Julia: It's not always about ruse. Isn't it
Tami: though. Thanks. Yeah. I was just say at the end of Thelma and Louise, I was like, of course that's how. That's why you, why you got to take it so seriously, it's just a movie. Why couldn't they work it out? That I'm like, oh, for the love of God shot
Julia: also, we don't deserve Gina Davis.
Tami: Also. Can we talk about hot Brad pinch cheeses? Because I am not, but I am not a blanket. Brad Pitt gal income, Thelma and Louise, and our river runs through it. I'm like, okay, I get the Brad Pitt anyway, we're off on a tangent. The point is this, I forgot the question.
Julia: Do you think that the point would have been.
Julia: About the shit. Hold on, let me just read it exactly how I wrote it because life's hard if bringing it on had been a serious movie, gritty and deeply dramatic. Do you think people would have paid better attention to the fact that this teen romp movie called out and injustice that had at this point in 2000 already been happening for several decades?
Tami: I love this question because my, my honest to God, first responses, this would have never been made. If we didn't see half naked teenage girls, I mean, where's the light wouldn't have been made. If there wasn't like homophobic, sexist, bullshit. It just wouldn't have been made because they would be like, who's going to watch a movie about cheerleaders talking about race and class and gender.
Tami: And I'd be like, just tell me, find me, run a fucking pig for me, without all the bullshit with all the stupid stuff. And the answer is I want to edit this movie because there's so many pieces that are actual perfection where you're like, oh God. And then there's pieces that are very cringy.
So
Julia: like when they do the carwash and they're all like, it's like, uh,
Tami: you know, Which by the way I've never seen, but do you really have to see Porky's to know what it's about?
Tami: Because it's
Julia: always used as a point of reference for raunchy, teen movies or young adult movies.
Tami: And also, can we talk about in the big scheme of things, this movie is actually not that raunchy, so it like, it, like it fail, like you're like, wow, you missed the mark with the thing that you were going for. So hardcore, like, so can we just cut that part out and again, do you okay.
Tami: Do now I have to talk about another thing. Yeah, it could because it's did you ever, does anyone else also watch call the midwife.
Julia: I seen the first season and then I stopped after that. Okay.
Tami: But it's been on forever, right? I think has been on forever. And I, I resisted watching it cause I was like, who fucking cares about midwives in the fifties, but this is what I'm gonna tell you.
Tami: The reason the clients love it. The reason why I come back to it is because that, that show is not about midwives people. It's not about babies,
Tami: babies. It's about female friendship. It's about birth control. It's about women's empowerment. It's about fucking freedom. It's about bodily autonomy. It's about race class, gender war. It's about love. It's about poverty. It's. It's not about babies,
Julia: but it would never have been made. Had they not put some sort of very buttoned up what men think women should be concepts in the title.
Julia: Right. What's so
Tami: interesting though, is that it's really about the relationship of all the women in the town. And it's about the relationship between the medical nurses and the very religious nuns. And I am so every time I watched it, I was stunned. So it's says that same thing. I feel like, feel like, uh, there was a missing opportunity with bring it on with, bring it on to really explore what it, what this movie was really about.
Tami: Race, class, gender equity, equality. Relationships between like some of the characters were so incredibly one dimensional. Yeah. Like everyone except cliff Torin. Um, and Missy, Missy and ISIS, everybody else was a
Julia: caricature maybe
Tami: caricature. Yes. I was going to say stage set design, like, but caricature, I, I felt like the clovers were characatures because while Gabrielle union's character went high, when they went low, um, the other girls, I thought we're depicted in a very late.
Tami: Manner. I felt like there was some parts, some parts that maybe were just fucking lazy and obvious. Like you couldn't do, you couldn't take that anywhere else. And I'm going to beat you up after the, at the multi pulled me back. Like really?
Julia: Yeah. And again, I always go back to, I wonder what would've happened.
Julia: If you did have somebody who was a little bit more empathetic to the female, play in charge of the direction directing, because you know, a lot of times actors have ideas, you know, and I've, you know, this I've done acting, we have ideas. We're not coming into this with the expectation of being told exactly what to do.
Julia: Like,
Tami: well, you're not a vessel to be
Julia: filled. Yes. In my mind, you're not doing your job as a director. If you're not getting the best performance out of your actors, right? Like, isn't that the point, like, you're the manager of the show essentially like your, it is your job to get us to do the best performance.
Julia: And if you're telling me that. I can't, I have to stop right here and I can't go any further than you're not doing your job as being a director
Tami: and resist, but there was just a lot of flat, flat peop people, flat performances, flat storylines.
Julia: I think he, cause I think he didn't get it. I think because he didn't get the whole point.
Julia: I think he's in the camp of Roger Ebert who later eight has words.
Tami: All right. I mean, I did, when I was a kid, I didn't watch Siskel and Ebert. Yeah. Right when they disagreed, I, I didn't because I was always like, why, what the fuck, why middle-aged white guys get to tell us what to fucking watch.
Julia: So here's my thing about Roger Ebert after doing 50 plus episodes of the show and pulling just as many articles that he's written.
Julia: Yes. He's a Pulitzer prize winner. That is impressive. I had dreams of doing that one day. But when I read the articles that he writes about female led movies,
Tami: it's not
Julia: overtly problematic, but when you read them weekly in succession, you know, you're just like, I'm noticing a pattern here. I'm noticing a pattern.
Tami: And again, in time
Julia: it could be the product of time, but he was the gold standard, right. There are some journalists out there, entertainment, journalists out there who you could tell clearly grew up on Siskel and Ebert because they're trying, they're not Ybor, but they're trying. And it is like, Can, I mean, I don't want his dad plus his heart rest his soul.
Julia: Um, so I don't want to like pull them out of the grave and like, you know, have a from talking to yeah. Yeah. But it's one of those things where you're just like, you shaped multiple generations on how we view entertainment. And now, now I can see it now that I've done, not a deep study, but enough of reading of your work for the last year and a half where I'm like, you're not, you shouldn't have been the gold standard,
Tami: somebody, well, but this, but, but it's the same.
Tami: It's exactly the same thing. Well, I'll say this again and again, and again, we live in the actual best time because tastemaking has been democratized. Right. We can have this conversation. Dozens of people will fucking listen. But I'm going to tell you, but back in the day,
Julia: download in the first hour,
Tami: right?
Tami: All of our friends, hi dad, like whatever I'm like, but I am going to actually put this on my personal Instagram and shout out my dance of people so that maybe they'll listen. Um, but back in the day, and that day was all the way until the beginning of the arts. There were only a few people who were allowed to be a, tastemaker just fucking ridiculous, because again, I'm going to come back to this again and again, and again, and people are gonna be like, what the fuck is her problem?
Tami: My problem is is Roger Ebert was not the target audience, right? I'm gonna tell you what this movie ticked a lot of boxes for me. Also does everything that I consume have to be high art? Nope. No. Does it have to be stunning commentary? No. Does it have to be perfectly executed? No. And it's like me, like me deciding that I'm going to be the arbiter of like, I'm going to do sports fucking casting.
Tami: I don't even know what it's called. It will be like, why is the person who got. Zero shits about this, talking about the thing that we love.
Julia: Well, and that's, you know, that's part of my argument too, on one of the reasons why, and we talked about this however long it was, we talked about it where it was just like, there's not a lot of people out there.
Julia: There are now more now since like in the last year, but there weren't. The major publications are still hiring the Roger Ebert's of the world to talk about entertainment. And that bothers me because when they review film female led stuff, you're just like, you're not coming from a place of experience or person like your, not the person who should be talking about it.
Julia: I'm not saying that every black movie needs to be reviewed by a black critic. I'm just saying that, you know, maybe hire a black critic because their perception is going to be a little bit different. Is this helpful or harmful? I feel like they are more equipped to say like a black reviewer is gonna be more equipped to say that a movie is helpful or harmful to the black community.
Julia: Also the black community is not a monolith. We are different all across the board, but when you have somebody who's coming from experience, it's like quibble with single moms stuff on, in public, in public, in pop culture. I fucking hate half the shit that's represented for single moms stuff, because there's very one trope.
Julia: They pick. And it's or two there's, two that they pick and then it's very, you know, flat and you're just like, cool, thanks for upholding the stereotype asshole. And then I got to read an article by a guy who's 27, who doesn't have fucking kids and never had to like deal with single mom shit, right. About it.
Tami: He's like, well, he's like at my, mom's not even a single mom. Yeah. Just to bring the point. He's like, I don't have this experience on any of it, but I did get paid to write this thing. It wasn't fucking meant
Julia: for me. Yep. And then I wonder too, how many people, if somebody were to say to Roger Ebert, Hey bro, this is probably not the best way to say this.
Julia: Now their careers ruined, like how, how real was that?
Tami: I'm just happy to live in a time where I don't just have to listen to one person's opinion about something that isn't for them. Like, I'll just say like, I'm trying to think of. Like young, like gen Z pop culture thing. This is how far away from it. I am, I don't even know what it could be.
Tami: I'm going to come back again and again, it wasn't made for me. No one should give a shit. If I get it, it ain't for me. So leave it alone. I don't need to be critical of things that are not meant for me.
Julia: Yeah. And that's, I think one of the things I struggle with sometimes with critics, because they're coming at it from an angle worth, but it's like,
Tami: I'm like, so you watch a lot of movies.
Julia: Yeah. So then it's like, well, what can you maybe give us an inkling on like whether or not it would be appropriate or good for a different type of audience? Like, just because I don't watch Handmaid's tale doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge that it's a really good fucking show.
Julia: I've seen the trailers, I've seen the acting, you know,
Tami: I skipped the whole thing and just read the fucking book in the nineties. I was like, I don't want to live like that. I think I'll spend a decade working in reproductive politics. Yeah. I don't need to watch a fucking
Julia: show. Yeah. When people ask, well, have you watched it?
Julia: I'm like, I'm still recovering from the book. I don't know if I can watch the song, but like there's things like,
Tami: look in 1991, I am also still recovering from that book.
Julia: Thank you. Let's
Tami: start a support group. Totally. And people like us such great shot. I'm like, didn't read the book. Did you get out of the sentence?
Tami: Do you? Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. And so I'm just kinda like in this camp of like, just because it's not for me, doesn't mean I can't appreciate that there's artistry there or that people are like working for it. And like, and that's the thing with bring it on. Like you don't get it. I get that. Roger. Uber. It's not for you, but it also wasn't for ale Scott and he got it.
Julia: So where's the
Tami: disconnect. Privilege is a real, like the P word goes deep, right. Because it's like, oh, that doesn't affect me. Like, oh, that's so silly. Those girls are, they're just, they're just talking about surely routines. Okay. Well, like I can't like how much do I have to hold people's hands to be like, oh, is that what this is about?
Tami: Oh, that's funny because you know, I spent a decade in the classroom as a teacher, working with kids on what you would think. I would say math and reading. I worked on their critical reasoning skills because I didn't want to have another generation of people who were dumb. So here's a, here's a thing that we did that for some reason they were, I think, I dunno when Pocahontas, the movie came out
Julia: in the nineties, I think.
Tami: Right. So I was teaching and the early aughts and they were all after me to watch it. And I was like, I was like, okay, we'll do this. I was like, but we're going to read this other thing about Pocahontas. We're going to read this other thing about Pocahontas. We're going to read this other thing. We're going to do this.
Tami: We're going to, we're going to dive a deep dive. Then we'll watch a movie. Then we're going to talk about what's truth and what's fiction. Yeah. And every kid in that class, they started with, I love this thing. I love it so much. And by the time they were done, they were like, excuse me, please. In the Disney movie, she married that guy.
Tami: But in the reality. He was like her captor. I was like, Megan's friends. And they're like, this thing says this. And this thing says, I was like, oh, hello, welcome to the world of critical thinking. Right. I could have just let them enjoy their fucking movie there. Historically inaccurate movie. You had to ruin it
Julia: for him, but it wasn't ruining for him.
Julia: It's just helping them identify. Like you can still enjoy something without, without losing the integrity of what actually happened.
Tami: Right. Like, and culture does not exist in a vacuum people like you I'm like what? What's about nothing. What's what's just this what's what's. So by the way, I, if, if, if somebody presented me a story, With no cultural meaning, I would be like, why are we watching this fucking drivel?
Julia: Well, you know, my stance, I'm, I'm all about consuming nonfiction or excuse me, correction consuming fiction. Because I think you actually learn more from it than when you do nonfiction and you know, NonFiction's is more prestigious again, but fiction is a safe place to learn and challenge your ideals and challenge your stereotypes and perceptions and learn empathy and empathy and to travel if you don't have the actual funds to travel.
Julia: And I think that that, and I said this in a post. Not too long ago. It was today, but we're not saying today because this episode goes out later where I say, this is why representation is so important because people are taking in we're consuming these things. And with the attitude of, well, let's just want to ever is actually pretty harmful because it's shaping whatever you just watched is shaping your perception of that group of people or that situation or that scenario.
Julia: So if you're doing a shit job, John Hughes and 16 candles with long duck dong, then you know, it has real life implications.
Tami: And then I don't know why people don't want to mention that came out when I was in high school. Yes. Well, I mean,
Tami: If the only thing that you're filling your feed with or your YouTube to, or your Netflix queue is
Tami: stuff that perpetuates stereotypes and girl is real easy to do that, um, that you, you take that with you. Yeah, yeah. Again, I am so much of, it just comes back to where I'm like it's called critical thinking and critical by the way, does not mean tearing things apart and being negative. It means watching with your whole fucking brain and being.
Tami: That's interesting that out of all the people, this is how they, this is how the director chose to portray that character. They could have chosen any other storyline, but that's how they, that was the choice that they made. Interesting choice agreed.
Julia: I've had the discovery a lot this season on the show, the movies and television of my youth and adolescents shaped a lot of my beliefs fundamentally and intrinsically intrinsically my heart ached for the clovers and ISIS.
Julia: She was the stronger captain and definitely a better leader than big red. And yet no one knew until torrents knew. And in 2000 didn't wield much power. Now we can take to social media to call out such discrepancies and issues. Tammy, thank you so much for joining me today. Can you please remind our listeners where they can find you if they want to keep up?
Julia: Yeah. Yeah, love it. And I will link friends to everything in the show notes, um, her social, her website, and plus all the resources we talked about today about voting, because voting is such an important action that we can do as citizens and staying informed. And it's really easy now that the internet exists.
Tami: That's not true.
Julia: Friends. Thank you so much for tuning in today. We appreciate your time until next time.
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