Clueless | 5
Show Notes:
Clueless made its theatrical debut on July 19, 1995, and starred newcomers, Alicia Silverstone, Paul Rudd, Brittany Murphy, Stacey Dash, Donald Faison, Brecken Meyers and so many more. A modern telling of Jane Austen’s Emma, Clueless was a smash hit with critic reviews mostly positive and all these years later this film is still loved by all.
Let's Get Social:
The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
The Guest: Dana Koster (Broadsides)
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Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous where we discussed pop culture through the lens of race or gender. And sometimes both. I'm your host, Julia Washington. And on today's show. My guest is Dana Coster and we will be discussing coolest.
Julia: Clueless made its theatrical debut on July 19th, 1995. And start newcomer. Alicia Silverstone, Paul read Brittany Murphy, Stacey dash, Donald Faison, Brecken Myers, and so many more, uh, modern telling of Jane Austen's. Emma clueless was a smash hit with critic reviews, mostly positive, and all these years later, this film is still loved by everyone.
Julia: But before we dive into the discussion, I want to introduce you to my guest. Dana Coster has earned degrees from UC Berkeley and Cornell university from 2011 to 2013. She was a Wallace stinger fellow. Her first collection binary stars was published by Carolina run press in 2017. Dana's poems have appeared in multiple print magazines, like Indiana review and the Cincinnati review.
Julia: Just to name a few. She lives in Modesto, California with her husband and two children where she works as a wedding photographer. And for the past six years, Dana has also worked as one half of the art project. Broadsides with her collaborator, painter, Chelsea, America, and friends at home. You should know that literally every wall of my house has some form of broadsides artwork.
Julia: So clearly I'm a fan and I'm very excited. She's here today. Welcome to the show date. Hello, Julia. Hi, it's good to be here. I'm excited. You're here. I feel like I need people at home to understand that. Um, we talk in the GMs on. That's
Dana: my whole social life
Julia: and that you curate the best Instagram stories known to man.
Julia: So I appreciate you for that. It's
Dana: cause I'm terminally online. Yes.
Julia: They're just, they're just too real. Some of the stories you find, it's just like, Ooh, that's just real. And also I need to send the laughing, crying emoji.
Julia: Okay. Let's do a quick summary to refresh everyone about clueless. Even though I feel like if you're on the planet and over the age of 15, you should already kind of know what this movie is, but friends I'm going to warn you. I didn't write this. I pulled it from Google. Shallow rich and socially successful share is at the top of her Beverly Hills high schools, pecking scale, seeing herself as a matchmaker share first coaxes two teachers into dating each other in golden by her success.
Julia: She decides to give hopelessly, collecting new student Ty. Um, make-over when Ty becomes more popular than she is share, realizes that. Disapproving ex stepbrother was right about how misguided she was and falls for him. But honestly, like who wouldn't fall for Paul red lake liberals? We were all, I think we all have.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. In his 1995 review, Roger Ebert said, quote, clueless is a smart and funny movie and the characters are in on the. Variety had a similar sentiment. They said like an episode of Beverly Hills 9 0 2, 1 oh on helium, clueless as a fresh disarmingly, bright. And at times explosively funny comedy, well worth a trip to the mall.
Julia: Even if it eventually runs out of gas. So there's a, there's a couple of Hills I'm willing to die on. And one of them is I'm actually kind of overriding the Brits in school. Cause I feel like I've done it a lot, but the second is, and I will fight on this one when modern retellings are developed from the likes of Shakespeare in Austin, we have a long lasting cultural expression that is relatable, delightful and funny, or in the case of Shakespeare, like really dark and tragic.
Julia: Director Amy Heckerling was interviewed in town and country magazine for the 25th anniversary of the film's release and where she explains how she came up with clueless. She said, quote, I started to think what if there was a teenage girl who no matter what was happening, couldn't have her bubble burst.
Julia: I was wondering about this particular character. What are the best bones for a three act feature? And I remembered, I had read Emma in college, then I re-read it and everything. And it was so perfect. And so relatable in that time period or any other time period, really? Because she's so wise that I started to think of what the equivalent would be in a world.
Julia: I was living in, in California in the 1990s. How could I turn that into a teen comedy for the present time? So Dana, let's just start from the beginning. Tell me about when you first saw this film, how old you were and what is it about this movie that you love?
Dana: Um, so I think that I was about 12 when it came out.
Dana: So it was very strange to rewatch it as an adult, especially when that has a kid. That's like kind of going through adolescence a little bit. So like, my kids are younger than teenagers, but I can feel that on the horizon, but because I was. My kid's age when it came out. So when it came out, it felt like it was this portrait of like what high school was going to be like.
Dana: Yes. Especially being in Southern California where I grew up. Um, I wasn't like that relief. Um, but it was, as soon as it was over my head, it was really interesting to rewatch. It I've really watched it since the nineties, obviously, but not in a while. And I was looking at it and just thinking like, I didn't understand.
Dana: Any of these jokes 12th, you know, but there was something about it that was charming. No matter what age I was, you know, I still, I think I come back to it because it's. It's one of the many movies from the nineties that is very campy. It's a comedy. And it's, I mean like, like the thing you read said, it was it's on helium, you know, and even the titles are really like, there's like slime green and like, The font is really jaunty.
Dana: And I think the interim must've had like four different songs and two, I mean, it was just, it just goes, goes girls and some ways it, um, it feels more like a modern movie just because the pace
Julia: is so fast. Yeah. I love when she's like, I know this feels like I'm not Zima commercial bright, but like it's not, it's my totally normal life.
Julia: Or however she says, I'm just like, yeah, it does kind of feel like a TV, commercial think share. Like I don't get to lay by a pool like that, but I want,
Dana: I like that moment. It was very self-aware because it opens on this ridiculous montage of these like rich teenagers in, you know, shopping and in the pool.
Dana: Like what the fuck is this opening? And then she immediately like skewers it by saying like, I know what you're thinking. This must seem a commercial.
Julia: Yeah. I loved, I just love share. I think that she's well, like, I think. Exactly what the director set out to do this bubbly character who cannot be dissuaded and her joy and happiness and throughout the whole film, regardless of what happens to her, she's still like happy and joyful and helpful.
Julia: Like this scene when she gets, um, kicked out of Elton's car and then like gets robbed and she's like, no, but you don't. Dan. So dresses like super expensive designer wear and she's just like, I can't get on the ground. Like what?
Dana: And it was a great scene. It's very sweet. I find the character very endearing.
Dana: And I think that, um, the movie makes a very big point of the fact that she, she might be sort of naive or come off as ditzy, but she's not stupid. She's like everybody at the school is actually very smart. Um, and I think that's part of it. It makes it feel like they're in, on the joke where she's been on the joke, you know, she seems aware of what's happening even in not of everything, because like I said, she is pretty naive.
Dana: It was pretty startling to realize that they were 15 in it because it's so young. Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. And like you, I was, I think I was. The first time I saw it, I was 12, but it had already been out. I saw, I wasn't, my parents had a hard, fast rule. I couldn't watch movies until I was 13. And so I saw it on VHS at my friend's house.
Julia: Uh, you know, in the, no, you know, yeah, mom, I'm just going to go to my friend's house kind of way. Like they didn't know. And like you, it was like, oh, this might be aspirational for high school. So cool. No, not true, but it was just kind of. They felt so grown up to me.
Dana: Yeah. That was a really strange thing to watch it now because they really, they, especially that moment that you mentioned where she gets mugged,
Julia: it's such a little kid, like
Dana: she just doesn't, she she's got a gun pointed at her and she just is worried about her jacket.
Julia: Yeah. I mean,
Dana: I think when you're 15, you think you'll live forever, but yeah, when it came out, it just, they felt like they were. Grown up and they were talking about sex. None of which I understood, you know, most of those jokes were way over my head when it came to.
Julia: Yeah, same, same. It did appreciate. Um, oh actually, we're going to get into that in a little bit.
Julia: So paint and what I was going to say, if you love our show and want to support it, there's a few ways that you can do that. Become a supporter on Patrion for $10 a month to receive ad free episodes with bonus content. Or you can write a review or rate the podcast wherever you find your podcasts. And if neither of those are your style, you can find us on Instagram.
Julia: Give us a follow and share your video clips with your friends. We are on IgE as pop culture makes me jealous. In 2014, Marie Claire ran an article titled why clueless is important for women. The article highlights the strengths, beauty and natural tone of the leading female characters, friendship. The article also highlights another really important topic.
Julia: One that is still being explored today. In a restaurant scene, Cher Dionne and Ty are discussing their varying sexual experiences. And the article from Marie Claire highlights how the discussion is honest and free of judgment. There is no shaming of share for being picky about who and when she will engage in such intimacies, she even reaffirms how important the decision is to her throughout the entire film share.
Julia: In charge of her person and doesn't put up with anyone's shit and look at it. You Elton, when Christian arrives on scene, she begins to feel things, but even here, she walks down the path to self-discovery. So I want to talk about. This film as a female's Anthem to autonomy and empowerment. Cause there's, there was a lot of that on the internet.
Julia: So it was like, okay, we're I can't just pull one article because there would be unfair to all the other articles because it's been written about a lot. So is share a secret agent for empowerment?
Dana: I think so. I mean, and I think so much of this for me. I didn't know before we were going to watch the movie and talk about today that the director was a woman.
Dana: Um, and she also wrote the movie. So it was written and directed by a woman. And this is, I mean, we're still in a time in 2022, where there are not that many movies that are being written and, or directed by women. Um, and I have been rewatching some nineties movies lately. Um, and this is such a stark contrast to something like Charlie's angels, which was very clearly made by a man.
Dana: I mean, the movie is just a one fucking male gaze after the that's ridiculous. The character don't feel like
Julia: people. I did appreciate your story ranting about that movie
Dana: actually. Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's a good sign about clueless that I didn't go on any weird ramps on my Instagram about, um, you know, making fun of it.
Dana: Cause it, it really is just enjoyable. I think that the. Maybe it's that it's partly based off of Emma. So there's a certain amount of like, uh, character work that you could do when you're writing it. You wouldn't maybe manually have to do writing an adaptation, but the characters all felt like people. And I still find that, uh, women written by men don't feel like people.
Dana: I feel like I can tell when I'm watching a TV show and there aren't any women writers. I mean, I will go on DB and check and then I was on my husband. No women and that right here soon.
Julia: And I think that clueless really feels,
Dana: she feels like a, she feels like a person, like she's not a two dimensional or one dimensional figure of like a popular girl.
Dana: She's actually ballsy and the things that she says, she's very biting, but not Janeane Garofalo. Like, no, not like the portrait of what that looked like in the nineties. Like she still gets to be cute.
Julia: Yeah. And sweet. Like she's so caring about her dad. I just, I loved that element where, um, and I, I remembered that that was a part of the story and part of her character, but just seeing how sweet she is about her dad's health.
Julia: And then. Seeing, how should we sweet. She is about the staff's help when they're come to the house to work on that case. And she's like, we need to have, she's very considerate. She's like, let's bring them late. Let's bring them a midnight snack. And, you know, daddy, you can't eat that your cholesterol and the doctor's coming to give you a flu shot.
Julia: Those very nurturing elements to her. And I loved how she was. So self-aware to understand that she kind of maybe was nurturing because she didn't have the mother. So she became the mother, um, which I really. I really liked how self-aware they made her for being 15. I just kind of assumed when I was 12, that all 15 year-olds were that self-aware wrong.
Julia: Yeah.
Dana: Not so much.
Julia: And then you brought up a point about, um, Shit. I don't remember what you said, but I was going to say, I do love how, like, she's always very clear with people, even if they misinterpret it and she's not afraid to say no, that's not my problem that you misunderstood it. Or however Cher says it, right?
Julia: Like with this teen prior to her being robbed and she and Elton are in the car. And he's just like, oh, I knew it. I knew it. I knew that you were into me and she's like, are you crazy? Like, no, like get off of me. And I love how she just didn't have any clumps to do that. I remember now the gal who directed it and wrote it, she wrote class times at
Dana: Ridgemont high.
Dana: Yeah. I was looking through her IMDV and it was really. It was really impressive. The movement. She did look, who's talking. It seemed like she was big in doing comedies in that. And like the eighties and nineties, I mean, it looks like she's still working, but just not anything that I would recognize.
Julia: Yeah.
Julia: Um, which is kind of a deal because I feel like there weren't a whole lot of women writing comedy in the eighties and nineties, like that, wasn't really a thing. Um, Which is kind of a bummer because women can be so funny and there's so many female comics now that I'm just like, I will follow you to the end of their earth because you're a fucking hilarious,
Dana: I think it's the combo too, of it being written and directed by a woman, because I also recently watched 10 things.
Dana: I hate about you. Um, because there, this was like, clueless was part of this whole kind of genre in the nineties of the adaptations of. 10 things I hate about you as you know, is taming of the Shrew. Um, and I looked that one up because it, it felt included. Plus like you were on shares side, like you were in the, you were in her shoes, you were looking at the world from her point of view.
Dana: And even though you could see the things that she was maybe wrong about, I mean, that she was clueless about. Right. You still felt like, um, I dunno, like you were on her team and 10 things I hate about you. As well-written as cat was in that movie, I felt like I was supposed to be on the side of the boys, like the boys that were at going after cat and her spin Bianca.
Dana: Interesting. When I looked it up, that one was written by a woman. So cat speeches are great. Like she's got these great, like feminist rants, and I love that character, but I also feel like it's making fun of her and. You're not supposed to think that she's a great character. You see her as kind of like a ridiculous caricature cause that's what the people around her treat her like.
Dana: Yeah. Um, and it was directed by a man.
Julia: That's really interesting. I really love that observation because you are not wrong. In my opinion. I agree with you. And the opinion of this show, you are correct. Because it is like, shit you're right. Like the whole time, you're just like, share's gonna it's she's you feel like she's your friend, you feel like you're in it with her every step of the way you don't feel like you're trying to like fit in.
Julia: You're just in man. That's yeah. And that's a hard part. Sorry,
Dana: go ahead. I was gonna say, I want her to get some sort of come up in, so I feel like you're supposed to feel like that. I mean, it's maybe partially because it's based on. Tammy the taming of the Shrew. So like you want, like, you're supposed to want cat to get teamed and there's nothing like that include, plus you're just, you're just kind of along for the ride.
Dana: Yeah. She does show a lot of character growth and I find it to be much more like positive. Like I kind of feel like cat was fine
Julia: already. Yeah. You don't need to fuck with cat. She said leave her alone. I love her. Yes. Also, I love letters to Cleo. Thank you for being in that movie.
Julia: Oh man. I loved Dion and Cher and I loved just how honest they were with each other all the time. When she was like, would you call me selfish? And she's like, not to your face?
Dana: Yeah. It felt like a very true friendship. And I think even though they start off, um, trying to. Like treat tie like a project and the movie it's obvious by the end that they really do care about each other because they have, they have a very tearful fight and they have a sort of emotional makeup. So it, it wasn't just, it wasn't like Cher does it out of pity or even if she does, she does end up developing a genuine relationship.
Dana: And I mean, I, actually, my husband pointed out that, um, this movie passes the Bechtel test so hard. I mean, they talk about boys a lot, but they talk about so many things that are.
Julia: Yeah, which I love. And I love that. She's like not, they're not boy crazy in the way that some other teenage girl movies are. And that's always really hard because it's like, you know, I don't know about your experience at my experience in high school is like, yeah, I had crushes on boys.
Julia: Like I'd love for this particular person to notice me because he is beautiful and what have you, but it wasn't like my girlfriends and I were sitting around like pioneering and wishing and hoping, like we went to punk shows. We were like, how are we going to get to the mall? And none of our parents want to take us, like, how are we going to get to the book?
Julia: Like we had so many other things about us that when movies did come out with. The teenage girls were just so obsessed with falling in love. It was just kind of like, yeah, I'm obsessed with falling in love, but that's not the only element about me.
Dana: Yeah. I think it did a really good job of making her seem like a person w which is hard, especially because she is such kind of a caricature of what a girl from Beverly Hills would be like.
Dana: Yeah. But I, it really was very believable and. I dunno. And you just really, you really like her. I was a reading up on Emma and I, Gina Austin said that she was creating a heroine that, um, basically only she would like, you
Julia: know, I love that.
Dana: I read something else too. That was, uh, that said that in pride and prejudice, like the main problems in pride and prejudice are.
Dana: The Darcy and Elizabeth, Elizabeth like pride in their prejudice. And the main problem in Emma is Emma.
Julia: Oh my gosh. I love that.
Dana: True in clueless too. Like the main, the main problem is
Julia: sharing. Yeah. Yeah. I do love Emma more than I love pride and prejudice and that's pride and prejudice, I think is the one that has.
Julia: In almost every AP lit class or advanced lit class in high school, which is fine. But I was telling my son, I was like, I just wish you guys had read Emma because I feel like that's way more of like a female Anthem and like gets you into the mind of like, you know, uh, not better female characters. That's not the way I want to say it, but like, there's just something about Emma that you're just like, Yeah.
Julia: She a bad-ass like, don't fuck with her. Cause everybody loves her, but also she knows what's up kind of thing. And I wish that they would just dissect it in high school and in, and I think that would help a little bit with some of those gendered issues that come up when people want to fight about like
Dana: equity.
Dana: I mean, in terms of the casting too, like, I mean, it was. Um, especially for its time, relatively diverse cast. I mean, it reflected more what my friend, group groups looked like in that era, then something like 10 things I hate about you. There are a lot of just like very, very white movies from that period.
Dana: And from this one also, but yeah, but that one kind of stands out for 1995 and the same with, um, gay representation. I mean, I, I think it's probably the first movie I saw. Where they were like the, the fact that characters were gay, especially in like a teen comedy where that was referenced or like where it wasn't just coded into it, but it was made explicit.
Dana: It's discussed a lot. I loved that. She was, uh, Amy Heckerling, uh, was trying to make a movie that was like, what would Emma look like today? And I thought that that was great that instead of. Christian. Cause I think Frank and Emma, instead of him being engaged, that he would, that he would be gay. That is what that would've looked like.
Dana: You know, Los Angeles or Beverly Hills in the nineties. I thought it was a great, that was a great update. Yeah,
Julia: I agree. Which is a great lead in. Thank you. I appreciate you for that. The ringer also jumped into the 25th anniversary conversation of clueless and had this to say, quote, clueless is littered with contemporary cultural references and.
Julia: Unabashedly inhabits the specific cultural MULU of wealthy, if also tacky 1990s LA and doing so it remained surprisingly true to Austin's novel themselves, which focuses largely on England's high bougie GWAS society, and especially Emma, which features Austin's richest heroine by. So I want to keep this conversation going about what clueless gets, right?
Julia: Not just in adapting Austin, but also encapsulating a period of time that still resonates because even though it's 1995, like it doesn't feel like 1995 to me. It was,
Dana: I think it's because it was forward-looking at least that's what I felt like. I felt like the fashion was not what was in my middle school when clueless came out, but it was w it reflected what was in my middle school after Clinton's came out.
Dana: I think that was really well done in the movie. Like. It was pretty out there. And I looked at the costume designer and she designed a bunch of iconic nineties. Yes. She also did the costume design for Romy and Michele's high school, which I also consider to be a very, very iconic costume mean. Yeah, I think in some way she kind of defined that, like I said earlier, like campiness, I think that's part of why it doesn't feel like it's set in 1995.
Dana: Cause it's not like it's not euphoria. It's not like a hyper realistic portrait
Julia: of right. Well,
Dana: I suppose that's not really what euphoria is either. Um,
Julia: but it's not the, it's not going down the gritty road. Right. It's not. And, and Ty, yeah, they smoked pot and ties excited by the idea of, oh no shit. You do Coke here.
Julia: Or have Coke here. And they don't understand that she's means drugs. And they mean Coca-Cola, but you know, but still it's like that scene when Travis is like giving up his. 'cause bong and she's like kitchenware and he's like, yeah, that's all right. Just to keep it. So, you know, there's still those elements there.
Julia: It's just euphoria is like way more sad and intense and dark.
Dana: Yeah. And I suppose the costuming is pretty over the top in that too. It's just maybe less. Um, fun. I don't know. Like, I think that's part of why it, it felt almost like a period piece, like, like it had been made now about the nineties and could have been made in the nineties because it was cause everything
Julia: was dying.
Julia: Yeah, yeah. That costume, when the first opening scene, when she's trying to figure out what she's wearing and she's wearing doing that computer program, which PS, all of us who love clothing are still waiting for that shit to exist in real life. And that lands on the, um, yellow plaid out. That is, and it's recreated so often at Halloween.
Julia: Like I love how Alicia Silverstone on Instagram will reshare the stuff that people tag her in when they dress as her in that scene. It's just, you don't, you, you instantly know clueless just based on that alone.
Dana: Yeah, it was very, very recognizable there. She also did the costuming for, I should look up her name, but, um, you find it on IMDV, but she also did the costuming for never been kissed, which had very few, like they, all of them had very little.
Dana: I dunno, like floofy other boas. It was just, it was so over the top, I think that added a lot to the movie in some ways, or it reminded me of some of my other favorite, uh, nineties movies or the Adams family movies. And they feel very campy, like very rapid paced in terms of. Dialogue and stuff. And I can't really think of movies like that that are made now.
Dana: I think there is sort of maybe a move more towards like earnestness and realism. Yeah. I mean, not that share's not incredibly earnest. I love that about her actually, but it's not trying to be realistic. The movies not being
Julia: realistic. No, but it feels like it when you're 15 or 12, because you don't know any better, which I think is another really great.
Julia: Element to, um, Heckerling storytelling capabilities, because she can make you feel like when you're young, this is aspirational. And then there's an element of nostalgia to it too, when you're older like that, wasn't my high school experience, but it feels very familiar in some way.
Dana: I think that, that, that campiness makes it feel more escapist.
Dana: You know, you really are leaving your world and going into this other better world. It has nods to ours, but they don't intersect exactly.
Julia: Right. Right. I do love that. She kept Elton as Elton, right. Like Mr. Larson. And like, that was my favoritest thing ever. And when clueless had come out, I hadn't read any Austin at that point because.
Julia: No, that was 11, like who who's going to do that at 11. Um, unless you're worried Gilmer, which still, I don't believe. Um, so when I actually sat down and had to read, Emma was like, look at you girl, like, get it. I love that you gave us Elton and kept him Elton. And the actor super cute. He was so adorable. I mean, not, he's not a cute character in the movie, but like him, the, the actor they cast to play Elton, he's definitely got that dreamy vibe where you're just like, yeah, you'd be a boy in high school that I'd be like, you're cute, but I'd never say it out loud because I'm the punk rock girl.
Dana: I don't know. I mean, he can't hold a candle. DePaul red though. No,
Julia: the door and this movie. Yeah. I just, who looks exactly the same. It's unfair, but we'll get into our love for Paul red in a moment. The other things that I really love because so I made, I was like, I'm going to listen to em on book because, or on audio, because I'm going to prepare dinner that, well, I ended up not borrowing the right version of Emma for it to actually be Emma.
Julia: I borrowed. There was like a performed version where like Emma Thompson reads all the narrative, but then the scenes are acted out, which was really interesting. And I kind of enjoyed it, but now I'm just like, shit. And I actually need to read Emma again because I don't know how much it's like was true because somebody had, you know, somebody adapted it to be that.
Julia: But when I was watching the movie last night and I had just finished the book, um, earlier that day there, that scene at the, when, um, There's a dance. The Alton's have a dance after Elton Marios, Mrs. Elton, are they married yet? Whatever the point is, is that Harriet Smith who is Thai in the movie is like kind of alone and whatever.
Julia: What have you. And then, um, Mr. Knightley comes and like dances with her and like, you know, it makes her feel better or whatever. And I just love that they did that also in the clueless where like, it's like, Hey Brittany Murphy, like let's dance. He just doesn't give a shit about how he looks. He just wants her to have fun.
Julia: And I just loved that.
Dana: It was, I think that scene was really great and I really liked. I didn't know, that just reminded me of cause Christians there. Yeah. I really liked watching it now. Like, uh, how queer coded, uh, he was pick up on it at all in that era, because I didn't understand. Anything about what gay people were.
Dana: Right. I mean, beyond like my mom's cousin who was around, you know, but like, not like you can extrapolate, but there's just like a great moment in that particular scene where he goes to the bar and he's clearly flirting with the bartender, like in the very background. You can't hear anything they're saying, but just the body language you're like, oh, sure.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, look at how he just ignores every woman because this puts her hand on him and he's like, no, thank you. Yeah,
Dana: exactly. But he does that in order to flirt with the bartender. And it's one of the ways in which. Clueless and the movie. Um, and I really enjoyed his character just in general, like the complete absurdity of him being like a 1950s James Dean type of character was, it was so weird and specific.
Dana: And then I really liked it when he figured out that she was. Hitting on him. He immediately removed himself from the situation like it
Julia: was, it wasn't
Dana: like he was trying to make her, his beard. He didn't have any ill intentions. He just thought like she has a really cool chick and he wanted to be friends with her.
Dana: Yeah. And I appreciated that there were no, there was no ill will between them. And then he ends up being, like being her friend and shopping with her afterwards, when she gets clued into
Julia: what's going on, what's going on here. I do love that. You know what? It's so funny because I've been watching this movie essentially my entire life for the most part.
Julia: And, you know, it's just so normal, that element of the film is just so normal to me. And then, you know, as I've brought other guests on and we talk about other shows, it's not normal, it wasn't normal. Like, that's a very, that was a very, I guess you could, I don't know if you want to call it a bold move because everyone uses the term bold and revolutionary for everything anymore.
Julia: My friend from high school. And I were talking about how we had friends in high school who were gay and just were absolutely like, we knew that they were gay. They knew that they were gay, but they were not going to see anything because of where we lived and like that. And that's, you know, the late nineties, early 2000.
Julia: So in 1995 for to have this fully, fully confident character and who he is, like how empowering for people who. Feel like they can't be fully who they are to see that. And maybe not necessarily fall down the path of being fully who they are, but at least now they see it and they, they can say, oh, this is all right.
Julia: Cool. I'm not weird.
Dana: Yeah. I mean, it wasn't, I thought it was. Telling that he doesn't come out in the movie, he gets, he gets out, but he's not actually free to be who he is. He just disengages from share. He doesn't tell her what's going on. She can ask to figure it out. Um, that felt very of the moment for me, you know, like it was sort of all communicated through secrets on whispers.
Dana: I don't know if that's what it's like an Emma, does she find out through the grapevine that.
Julia: He. Okay. So Mrs. Watson. Calls her to the house. Does she call her to the house there at Mrs. Watson's? Okay. And she basically is like distraught because she's like, I have this thing to tell you, Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill have been engaged since you basically last, you know, this past, whatever it was because what is time and she's, and they're devastated because, you know, they all got their hopes up that Franken and Emma.
Julia: Get together and be a thing. And he flirts with her and it makes Mr. Knightley so mad because he's like, he knows that this isn't it's disingenuous. He does no intention of being with Emma. He's just basically using her. Um, while he's at Hartfield Hatfield, Hartfield, whatever their accents made me confused.
Julia: And I haven't physically read it in a long time. It's been, you know, probably seven years. And, but that's not the point. The point is, is that it's this whole thing where. Mrs. Watson tells her blatantly, like they've been married, they got married, sorry. Or they're engaged. They're engaged. Sorry. And that seems like a
Dana: major change because he's not, that's not what's happening in clueless.
Dana: He's not trying to like flirt with her. I think in fact, like I, I thought that that was what was happening in previous watches of the movie. And I was watching it very carefully and no, he just. He just really thinks she's cool. He just wants to spend time with her. And I really, and I thought as soon as he figured out what she thought was happening, he was like, he removed himself physically from the situation and was like, we're still friends, right?
Dana: Yeah. It w it wasn't like it wasn't like Emma in that sense. And yeah, it's a tough wholesome.
Julia: Yes. Which, which I do think that they did take them, you know, there were some elements of Emma that they did sort of make more wholesome for the, for the movie, which I appreciate. Cause you're dealing with teenagers, like there's that age, age, old conversation of like, you know, teenagers don't talk like this and this isn't real and this is how not, we don't behave this kind of stuff.
Julia: And so when you have. Somebody who one has an affection for the source material, because I think that's huge. And then two they're nostalgic for an era. Like, even though she, I haven't read anything where the director blatantly says she was nostalgic for high school, you can still feel it in the way that she creates these characters and sort of cultivates this environment, that there is an element of nostalgia for her.
Julia: Um, I think those things make a big difference when you're putting something together. And when people. I'm dying on this hill, too. He's all that, you know, the remake of she's all that is that movie's trash because they got away from Pygmalion. They didn't stay true to the themes and the core of the characters in Pygmalion in the way that she's all that did.
Julia: So he's all that was a garbage movie and feels trophy and feels tropey and feels stereotypical and feels icky. And you know, there's those elements too. And she's all that we're just like, this is kind of icky. But it still rings true to a lot of the stuff that happens in Pygmalion and with some of the way that the characters are.
Julia: So it just, it makes a big difference when you don't get away from the source material. I guess my point is is when you remake a remake, you gotta, you can't do that. Like let's, don't do that where you make the original or retell the original,
Dana: I think what you said about, um, About her, uh, like about a nostalgia for high school is even explicit in the movie because like through Josh, because Josh explicitly.
Dana: Share like that she should be in, she should she's in high school and she should be out having fun and going to the mall and going to parties and enjoying herself. And she gets offended by it because she's like, is that all you think I do is go to the mall, but you can tell like, what he means is like, you don't have the responsibilities of adulthood.
Dana: Like enjoy it while you can, you know, that's a good. I think that's coming, you know, directly from the, the adult who wrote it.
Julia: Yeah, he used by Juul offers, custom artwork and original prints, specializing in watercolor, focusing on the human form and different shades of skin. If you're looking for that perfect gift for a birthday or have a special memory you'd like to commemorate visit Hughes by Juul on Instagram, or find the Etsy shop of the same name that's Hughes, H U E S by Jules, J U L.
Julia: We can't have this discussion without doing a few minutes of Paul read appreciation. So let's just do it because Paul read, because he's Paul Rudd, he's the never aging man and his beautiful eyes. And we love him. So let's just wrap about Paul Rudd. I am partly what I love about
Dana: Paul red is just that he's very funny and that he's very nice.
Dana: I mean, my husband was just listening to a Seth Rogan podcast. I can't remember the name of it. But, uh, on it, like somebody talked about having an encounter with Paul Rudd and it like changed the course of her whole life where he, he there, she ran into him at a screen of Inglorious bastards and, uh, there was nobody else in the theater and he invited her and her date to come and sit with them.
Dana: So it was just like the four of them watching the movie and he convinced her to keep trying at current. And now she like lives in Los Angeles and is like, is a comedian, but she was on a date with, she was a Jehovah's witness at that point. And she was on a date with a guy. And she was, I guess, after about four dates, you get married.
Dana: So she was like really about to start a life in Philadelphia. And he like, and he just encouraged her. He was like, oh, you did second city. You know, I have so many friends that went through there and Seth Rogan called it, Paul red and Paul red had no memory of it. And I thought that that was so telling because it's clearly the sort of shit he does all the time.
Dana: Yeah. I think that's part of why he's so great in this is because he like, and part of the reason I think he's aged, well, I do think he's aged, but I think that he's aged. Like somebody who's very kind, you know, he, he has. The hat, the smile lines. You can just tell he's a good guy.
Julia: I love it. Whenever the picture of him circulates, where he dressed like weird Al for Halloween that one year, I don't think I've seen that.
Julia: I'm going to find it and send it to, okay. It's so good. Cause you're just like, of course you like weird Al you're just a good human and weird. Al's just one of those innocent things that I feel. I don't know, I feel like he's universal. I could be wrong, but also my dad loved weird Al so I grew up on weird Al um,
Dana: Paul rats also just very funny, like, I mean, I always have crushes on comedians and I love his weird dancing.
Dana: I mean, he's utilized it in so many movies and it was really cool to see that this was his like breakout role. This was the first movies of his that was released. And then he gets to do like historic stupid test. I, it was nice to go like, oh, your whole career is based on that.
Julia: Do you have a favorite Paul red movie?
Julia: Um,
Dana: man, I don't know if I do. I really do love, uh, the 40 year old Virgin. Like I think that he works well in an ensemble cast in terms of movies that he headlines. I mean, I really like him and ant man. Yeah. I don't know. I think personally, I like his sketch comedy stuff. Like he did a lot of stuff on, uh, Tim and Eric.
Dana: Um, so there's a lot of like weird clips from that where he's doing his, his ridiculous dance. I don't know. Do you have a favorite?
Julia: I have rewatched. I love you, man. So many times I could probably act it out for you.
Dana: I've seen that one. I don't think I've rewatched that one.
Julia: I own it, but whenever it's on TV or like right now it's streaming on Netflix and I'm just like, cool.
Julia: Put that on in the background, clean the house.
Dana: He's great in character work too. Like he's in forgetting Sarah Marshall burnout, uh, searching teacher. He can steal scenes. I mean, cause he's hardly in that movie, but yeah. Like I remember him more than some of the main characters
Julia: for real though. He's just so cute.
Julia: And I just love him. And I think one of the reasons why I think I love, I love you, man, so much is because Rashida Jones is in it and she's also a team, black dad she's team mixed girl. We have something in common. So I love seeing him, like people like actors, like Paul Rudd, who are like in movies with girls that kind of look like me.
Julia: I'm like, yay. We get leading men to.
Dana: She's great. I love it again. I mean, she's hilarious. Like I'm very into comedy. So I think I would have a hard time picking a favorite Paul Romina because
Julia: of that. I did like that they brought him in to be ant man for the MCU, because I feel like he brought like a necessary level of like, cause you know, some of the movies you're just like, this is a lot and please know Dana, I don't know if you know this about me, but I literally.
Julia: Any movie that captain America is on in the background probably every weekend while I do stuff around the house. So like, even though these things are happening and I've seen them millions of times, there's still something about the element of how Paul read performs that I think really makes it the movies, the ones that he's in so much better.
Julia: Like I will sit and watch civil war all day. I mean,
Dana: that's just a legit good movie though. Yeah, I think he, um, he does a lot of, kind of, like I said, with Tim and Eric, he does a lot of surrealist comedy and I really, I like absurdism, that's like dry absurdism stuff that like where you're telling jokes and they don't seem like jokes or they're, um, off putting, he does that really well.
Dana: I don't know.
Julia: Yeah. He appeals. He doesn't have any like arrogance to him either, which I really appreciate, like when you see him in interviews and stuff, he's just like a genuine guy. And I think that also helps make him even funnier because you're just like, you're just like, ah,
Dana: it must be exhausting. I mean, if he's having these really genuine talks with people on the interviews and being really like great with his fans, cause I've read this.
Dana: Like that, I mean, and apparently changing their lives. Also curious about the podcast episode. Um, yeah. I don't know, like that, there's a lot of energy that goes into that. It's not like he's just passively. Nice. I feel like you really have to work hard to be, um, present with people in that way, especially with people who are your fans.
Dana: Like, I don't know. I would struggle I think with that. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. I don't know. I just think he's pretty
Julia: great. I agree. I'll watch any movie he's in. He's another one. I'm like, I will follow you to the end of the earth because I know one, it's going to be a good time into like, you're just like a cool dude.
Julia: In variety's 1995 review, they said, quote, clueless carries on the tradition of movies. Fast times at Ridgemont high in dazed and confused and skewering, the social strata of teen life here taking advantage as well of the exaggerated rich kids setting where spoiled teens call each other on cell phones as they parade down the halls and quote.
Julia: But it's more than that. There's a social commentary happening to. Which I think I, you know, like we touched on those elements, like with, um, Christian's character and just some of the other things that happen, like the conversations about sex between D and tie to Dana. Thank you so much for joining me today to discuss clueless.
Julia: Can you remind everyone where they can find you if they want to keep up with you on.
Dana: Oh, um, the best way would be at the broad sites, Instagram account. It's just at broad dot
Julia: sites and friends. I'm going to tell you, sorry, sorry to hype you up like this. Dana. No, no pressure, no pressure, but it really is like, I'll be laying in bed and I'm like, okay.
Julia: So let's see what's been on Instagram and then here's all these like stories. I'm just like, I don't know where the fuck she finds the shit, but damn, I feel seen.
Dana: I just have a very bleak sense of humor. And I feel like that has really resonated with people. So I've always been like this, but it's nice. I guess that the rest of the world has.
Dana: Caught up also. I'm sorry.
Julia: Well, I'm J I love it. Oh, and the way friends go quickly run, follow broadsides. The artwork on that page is amazing and it's definitely worth the follow as always. Thanks for tuning in y'all. We'll catch you next time. Pop culture makes me jealous as written, edited, and produced by me, Julia Washington.RIPTS from episode duplicates, and that’s zero fun, let me tell ya.
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