Bridgerton | 11
Show Notes:
The relationship between Violet and Anthony Bridgerton is defined in a lot of ways. In this week's episode host Julia Washington and guest Cindy Marie Jenkins explore how wealth and position impact motherhood.
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture Makes me jealous where we analyze pop culture through the lens of race or gender, and sometimes both. I'm your host Julia Washington, and on today's show we are discussing an Anthony and Violet Bridgeton from season two. My guest is Cindy Marie Jenkins. But first, this message, if you understand the nuances and intersections of being a Bipo woman, a woman identify, A woman in a male dominated industry and all the microaggressions that come with the daily existence in how media reinforces those stereotypes, but you still love pop culture, then pop culture makes me jealous.
Julia: Best Friends Club on Patreon is just for you. Join an incredible community of like-minded individuals who meet monthly to discuss a different topic in pop culture, access to bonus content, weekly, lunchtime, hangout sessions, and discounts on. To learn more about how to become a part of the best friends club, visit pop culture makes me jealous.com/become a member.
Julia: There's a hyphen in between. Become a Member, become Hyphen a Hyphen Member. See you there. Bridgeton Season two Premiere on March 25th, 2022. Season two focuses on Anthony Bridger's. Quest for Love. Or as Anthony feels, just finding his fight, Countess. But before we dive in, let me introduce you to my guest and you can hear my dog in the background.
Julia: I apologize. Cindy Marie Jenkins writes at the intersection of parenting, tech, work and pop culture, a member of the Authors Guild and the Nonfiction Writers Association. She's been published all the way from the last bookstore in Los Angeles to the Mary Sue and Beijing Kids. Cindy's workshops have been hosted by the National Endowment for.
Julia: Theater Asylum and the Orange County Public Library, among others. She coaches working parents and entrepreneurial artists serving on neighborhood councils and leadership committees like the Directors Lab West and the Los Angeles Female Playwrights Initiative. She now serves on the National Women's Theater Festival Board, an organization devoted to gender parody and radical inclusion in the arts.
Julia: Oh, I love that. Welcome to the show, Cindy. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, I'm excited you're here. You have a lot of, um, your background's really interesting to me because you're very focused on the arts and I love that. And so many people will be like, yeah, I love the arts. And then they have like, Quote a day
Cindy Marie: job.
Julia: You're like, no, you can have a day job in the arts too, guys. .
Cindy Marie: You can, you can merge them. Yeah. Um, yeah, I grew up in a, in a theater quite literally,
Julia: so. Oh, I love that. That's awesome. That's the best. The theater doest, I feel like the theater like everyone. Kind of gives community theater like it's got like a feel to it.
Julia: But I mean everyone, like without it, what are we gonna do? Like I don't live anywhere near a major theater. I have to drive two hours for that. So we are dependent on our community theater and sometimes they do things that major theaters can't do. So, Yeah, we had,
Cindy Marie: my parents ran one from the time I was five till about 15.
Cindy Marie: So it was like just always part of my life.
Julia: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay, so before we dive in, our actual topic, um, as I mentioned offline to you, our to our theme this season is wealthy women in the media. and so I'm asking every guest cuz so far the majority of our guests are women . So I'm asking all of our guests, um, this season, do you remember what you thought of rich or wealthy women or what messages you received about wealth and money when you were
Cindy Marie: a kid?
Cindy Marie: Yeah, I mean, I think that my first. Actual impressions of what a wealthy woman was, was like from the eighties. So we're talking like big hair, like soap
Julia: operas. Yeah.
Cindy Marie: And you know, lots of affairs, ladies who lunch you. You know, it wasn't until like designing women and Murphy Brown that I just saw, like working like peop women who work for their money and who really enjoy it and are like good at their job and mm.
Cindy Marie: But yeah, I just, it's all about hairspray for wealthy women. Yeah. .
Julia: I love Murphy Brown. So hard. Like I feel like she was kind of like the, to me, she was, for me, she was the person who was like, you can be rich, you can have a s like a solid career and you don't have to be liked, but people still love you.
Cindy Marie: Mm-hmm. . There's so many moments from her show that are just etched into my brain and pop.
Julia: Randomly. Yeah. Did you, um, when they brought back, when they brought back the reboot, did you ever watch it? No, I
Cindy Marie: never, I never saw
Julia: that. I feel like that's okay. You don't need to. It wasn't that great , like they took this strong woman who was like a force to be reckoned with.
Julia: Um, and she was just kinda whiny and just worried, like so worried about her 30 year old son, which whatever. Fair, but it the way that it was like, it was like where we missed this growth from Murphy, like with where the season series ended to now I feel like I'm missing something. Like, who is this woman?
Julia: Yeah, that
Cindy Marie: doesn't seem like it would
Julia: fit in an interview with Town and Country. Ruth Gaels shared this insight.
Julia: If you understand the nuances and intersections of being a bipo woman, a woman identifying a woman in a male dominated industry, and all the microaggressions that come with the daily existence, and how media reinforces a St. But you still love pop culture, then pop culture makes me jealous. Best Friends Club on Patreon is just for you.
Julia: Join an incredible community of like-minded individuals who meet monthly to discuss a different topic in pop culture, access to bonus content, weekly, lunchtime, hangout sessions, and discounts on March. To learn more about how to become a part of the best friends club, visit pop culture makes me jealous.com/become a member.
Julia: There's a hyphen in between. Become a Member, become hyphen a hyphen member.
Cindy Marie: See you there.
Julia: We have merch. Visit pop culture makes me jealous.com/merch to purchase. Some hoodies and t-shirts are the pop culture staples, but you don't wanna miss out on our seasonal collections. Whether it's specific to the show or a season, catch those limited edition styles before they're gone. Visit pop culture makes me jealous.com/merch to shop and use promo code shop pod to receive 15% off your first order.
Julia: That's S H O P P O D. Be sure to tag us on social wearing your.
Julia: We're looking for advertising partners. When you support the podcast, you're supporting a woman owned bipo small business. We're looking for other small business partners who want to get in front of an audience of like-minded folks looking to smash the patriarchy and make cultural change. Email pop culture makes me jealous gmail.com to get started.
Julia: One of the quickest and easiest ways to support our show is by subscribing, rating and reviewing our podcast on Apple podcasts. Sharing with other users while you love this show and reasons to tune in, is a simple kindness that will forever go appreciated by team pop. Culture makes me jealous. I'm gonna be honest.
Julia: Writing a review is the strongest move because when you write a review it helps that pesky al who them tell Apple. This show is loved, like, subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for all your support friend.
Cindy Marie: Do you
Julia: love to read? Pop Culture Makes me Jealous. Hosts a monthly book club that reads books that have been adapted for the screen. We meet on the fourth Sunday of every month via Zoom. The book club is open to anyone but Patreon Pals can vote on our monthly read and have access to our replay to sign up.
Julia: Hit the link in the.
Julia: Quote, Anthony suddenly takes on this mantle of being the head of the household way, way before he is ready, and also very suddenly this is quite tr a traumatic, shocking moment for him. In episode one, Anthony requests his mother's engagement ring. She's taken aback by this and responds with, she'll turn it over when there's someone to propose to.
Julia: The dynamic between Anthony and Violet is one that I find interesting. She is a woman Lo, who lost her husband at a young age and still has young children to raise while launching her grown children into society. Throughout all of season two and some of season one, we see Violet and Anthony Battle each other.
Julia: Violet was a woman who had it all. She was envied for her love, family, and position. The height of her social standing was cut short by the death of her husband and her eldest son. Becoming vi count. Being a doerr usually conjures up images of older, widowed women, not women who have 12 year olds in the home.
Julia: In an article from Romper writer Michelle Yang writes, each Bridgeton mother breaks free from societal rules and conditioning to fight for and protect their adult children in unexpected, in unexpected, inspiring ways. This is all to say bridger season two gifts audiences with epic mom moments, they were the type of speeches some of us didn't even know we needed to.
Julia: Eloquent affirmations, apologies and regrets we may never hear. Verbalized in real life. This series reminds us of the importance of our relationship with our mothers, which shapes the type of parents and humans we, we become. End quote. So I want to talk a little bit about the relationship between Violet and Anthony.
Julia: How do you think this shift affected Violet's relationship with her son?
Cindy Marie: Um, well, You know, in the, in
Julia: the episode, in
Cindy Marie: the series, just not in the book, but we get, we'll get into that later, um, that moment when she's giving birth right after Edmund dies, and it's up to, and he doesn't even realize that she, that the doctors are asking him that he has to decide who is living or dying.
Cindy Marie: Mm-hmm. her or the baby, you know, he doesn't e he's still distraught from everything and. and she is trying to, to reclaim the fact that it's her decision, which in that time period was not the case. Mm-hmm. and I'm, so, I love, I love Ruth Gael as well, but I love Violet. But then, you know, he does, he can't answer that.
Cindy Marie: And I, I, I have found that scene so harrowing as it was supposed to be. But we didn't see that until episode three, right? Mm-hmm. , mm-hmm. . So, which I thought I, I remembered it like right at the beginning of the series, so it kind of took me for a shock. Um, but from the, you can tell. From even season one when he's kind of an ask, excuse me, can I say that?
Cindy Marie: Yeah. We're,
Julia: we are a, we are a spoiler filled cussing show . Okay, great.
Cindy Marie: Um, you know, he, I still loved him cuz like, look at him, but , he did not love how he acted toward Daphne and his mother very much, but in season one. So I think season two we really had to get on his side really quickly. Mm-hmm. , but not the first two episodes.
Cindy Marie: You know, like I remember when he mentions, oh yeah, I added, added to your coffers for, uh, the mods and this and that. And then we see him struggling with bills and, but then taking money for his prostitutes, you know? Mm-hmm. , it's, he has to control all the money. He's supposed to control the marriage. . And I think that it, it's only because his is getting a little out of control that she can claim her power again later in the series.
Cindy Marie: Mm-hmm. , like, it's, um, I don't, there's just so much, like you said, all of those scenes, all of those moments, and then Daphne coming in as like the father figure near the end. Mm-hmm. , um, it, it, it really runs us through our paces this season. Yeah. And Violet is not, That stronger character until like episode five.
Cindy Marie: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think it was a fascinating evolution that she like, She knows that he's in charge and she really needs to let him be in charge. But then he's screwing up . Yeah. on his own wedding. Like, it's like she could step in, you know, for other kids maybe a little bit more than she could for him.
Cindy Marie: Mm-hmm. . Um, and I don't think she really got to be his mom that much. Yeah. As growing. Cuz he's supposed to be like nine. What? He's only in his teens when Edmond dies. But yeah. Um, yeah, she never, it's like so hard, like never even got to really
Julia: be his mom. Mm-hmm. , and especially too, when it comes to like, you know, I got the sense that Violet was really involved with Edmond when it came to like decisions of the, the household and the finances and all that stuff, which isn't.
Julia: Typical for that time period. So to go from being so involved to having this sort of kid who's like, I'm supposed to be a man. And you're like, yeah, but men don't say that. , like men are just
Cindy Marie: men. . And even from the very beginning, like he says, okay, I'm gonna get someone. I'm gonna find somebody. Here are my qualifications.
Cindy Marie: Yeah. And she will be the new vi count. And then like, what does
Julia: Violet do? Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's what I thought. Like, so I thought the scene where he asked for the ring was so beautifully done because she like, to me, she, she responded. Initially you're like, okay, she's responding very practically because it's like, honey, you don't have anybody to give the ring to.
Julia: But really the layers are, she's not ready to part with it because she's still like, she's still in love with Edmond. She still has all these emotions about her engagement and the life that's sort of unlived because he died so young and, and I thought they did a really good job with making that feel more deep than what you initially think.
Julia: Um, I can't even to keep it back
Cindy Marie: where? Mm-hmm. in their country house. Yeah. You know, their ring isn't even, is nowhere near Tom. Yeah. I say
Julia: Yeah. And I just, yeah. I just wanted to smack Anthony. Oh listen to your mother. Like use her as a guidance. Like it wasn't like he understood, like, cuz it wasn't like he had the training that he would've had if his dad had been alive all this time. You know, he would've probably brought him into the fold and shown him how things work, et cetera.
Julia: And then, you know, so they're both sort of missing a piece, um, that they don't get to Yeah. Grow into. a scene that I forgot
Cindy Marie: about too was that like when she breaks down, you know, after, after that she gives birth to Hiin , um, and she breaks down and in front of him about how she's trying to keep it together.
Cindy Marie: Yeah. And I mean, my parent, my, my mom did that occasionally. My, I try not to do that, but, but still show like emotional. Um, growth and everything with my kids, but like you can just tell he's not ready to see her. That fragile. Yeah. And it's not really fair to him, but she has nobody else to talk to about it.
Cindy Marie: So it, that, that scene, especially on the second, um, viewing really just. My heart because like they just both need each other so much. And she is, you can't give it to him right then. Yeah. Yeah. So he lo he kinda lost both his parents, um,
Julia: especially with the kind of marriage they had. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Because it becomes this thing of like, I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm always in a situation where I'm just like, you know, there are days where I'm just like, I can't with my parents, but then there are days where I'm just like, I'm like, I'm a grown ass woman and today I need my mother
Cindy Marie: Yes. Oh no, I, we love my, my husband reintroduced me to mash the TV series. Yeah. And there is this amazing episode. Frank after, you know, having an affair with hut lahan and everything. And then she has another uh, guy and at the end radar calls his mother
Julia: and
Cindy Marie: he said like, Some days, uh, you just really need your mom.
Cindy Marie: Yeah, yeah. And well, it's like, yeah, I, there are many days I'm like, well, text. That's great, mom. Great. Okay, cool. And then I'll just call . Yeah. She's, she's lured to just pick up whatever, because like, when is
Julia: that gonna come again? Right, right. Oh gosh. So, you know, not a lot of parents and mothers are in a situation where they have.
Julia: The wealth and power that the bridger's have. Do you think having that wealth and power changes the relationship between mother and son? Son?
Cindy Marie: Um, like would they have, would their relationship have progressed differently without the wealth? Yeah. Yeah, because there's so much pressure to keep it mm-hmm. , you know, so she really feels like she becomes in charge of keeping the face.
Cindy Marie: Keeping the, their standing, you know, cuz to a certain extent he can do whatever he wants, um, outside of virgins, but like he has to keep the whole fortune and the whole family together. Mm-hmm. . Um, which seems like more of a challenge, even, even with that society. Um, Because it's just, it's all inherited.
Cindy Marie: Right. , like we don't even have time to get into where they got that
Julia: money from. Yeah. Oh seriously, . We're just gonna sidestep that conversation for another day. . Yeah. I only
Cindy Marie: have
Julia: too many rabbit holes. Yeah.
Cindy Marie: But they have to keep it, you know? And I love, I actually love all the parallels with the families in this one, because like, Can't stand lady feathering tip.
Cindy Marie: And I grew to adore her. Yeah. But there're such an, a great example of what happens when you lose your money and you're just desperate and, um, you know, it's, there is a chance that you can lose it. Yeah. And there's a, a great chance, you know, that Colin almost gets caught up in, in as well. Mm-hmm. . Um, so.
Cindy Marie: It's strange, like they have so many, they, they, they have constant streams of income it seems, from being landowners or investments or whatnot, but it could all end mm-hmm. and, and I think that, you know, I know how, how extremely stressful it is. Like when my husband stepped into the primary caregiver prison, I mean, primary.
Cindy Marie: Moneymaker mm-hmm. position in our family. And, um, and that puts so much stress onto every little stress of the job. Yeah. You know, so, and it, and it stressed us out together, um, with that dynamic. Mm-hmm. . So it, I can't imagine like as the mother being dependent on the son to understand how to keep all of that together and how to.
Cindy Marie: You know, how much can they spend on the mod East? It seems like it's endless to us, but I'm sure he has budgeted for Eloise's coming out. .
Julia: Yeah. Feather.
Cindy Marie: Yeah.
Julia: Minus the feather. Yeah. The feather was a little much , but the dress was beautiful.
Cindy Marie: Yeah. And like, and I know like there's this whole thing about, you know, if you didn't have new fabric that season, then mm-hmm.
Cindy Marie: People can know. People understand they have nothing more to do than keep track of what fabric you're wearing. Yeah. .
Julia: Um, right. I, I thought it was really like interesting too because when I reflected on season one and how adamant he was for Daphne to marry, um, That gross guy whose name I'm forgetting. Oh, yes.
Julia: And, and you're just like, and and you know, um, Violet's just like, I don't understand what you're doing to our daughter. Do you not, do you not get what we've done here? Like, your father and I are a love match. I want you all to be love matches, like, Like, and then, and then that really sets up for season two in a nice way because again, Anthony's not thinking like, I should find a love match.
Julia: I just ha he's like, I just have to get this done. And poor Violet's like, Like I was just in my mind she's like, girl, I need you to get your shit together and figure out that you do need a love match, . Yeah, and
Cindy Marie: And I've been trying to show you this whole time. Yeah. Oh my God. I couldn't stand him in season one.
Cindy Marie: I'm like, the Duke is actually a nice guy. Yeah.
Julia: Like cool. Your jets Daphne could totally do worse. Which you tried to do to her. . .
Cindy Marie: Yeah. And I, I always find it fascinating too, that like having listened to both books Yeah. Um, it's like the guys have this major mental block, this like, and it's a ridiculous mental block, but at least the Dukes, you understood his motivation for it.
Cindy Marie: Um, and I thought this like shifting it in the series to being more about. His responsibility to the family and the checklist really worked well. Mm-hmm. cause it was mm-hmm. , um, it gave, it gave him and Kate a much stronger connection, um, which I thought was beautiful. And, um, I know people hated the strung out.
Cindy Marie: Glares and I was like, give me more. Yeah. , . I'll see Benedict do whatever he wants, but like, give me more seductive stairs, Kate. Like, she's hot too. Yeah. So, but um, yeah. Back to the mother. Yeah. It's, I, I cannot imagine having to ask for money. Mm-hmm. , you know? Yeah. For, go, sorry. Go. Yeah, no, I mean, I know that like, even for instance, I know many couples for whom the, like, they have separate accounts and they work it out together and it's great for them.
Cindy Marie: And like, we've never been that way, but we are also just like extremely open and, mm-hmm. , um, uh, like, you know, there was, there was a thing when we lived overseas that because everything including the bank account was in his name. There was, if you didn't get find a, a way to get through it, he would have to essentially give me an allowance every time we got in.
Cindy Marie: Oh gosh. And we were like, no, , no. What can we do? And we figured out a way around it, but cuz it was just like, no way. Yeah. Um, it just didn't feel right for the dynamic. For the dynamic we have. Mm-hmm. , which it's close, it's closer to Edmond and Violet. So. To go from like that kind of collaborative relationship in life to your son who, as she said, was born out of this body.
Cindy Marie: Yeah. You reremember, you saw his diapers, you brought him up, like, ugh.
Julia: Yeah. It's like when I, when too, when I was kind of reflecting on this week, I thought, because as we know, the queen passed away in, you know mm-hmm. September, and just thinking about. My friend and I were talking about the Crown, and you know, I told her, I said what the Crown did for me was, help me understand just the hurdles.
Julia: Elizabeth had to be queen because of this patriarchal bullshit and this, you know, the way that women are viewed and yada yada. and she said, love that, me too. And she said, what the crown taught me was Elizabeth hated Charles. Right? . And I was like, you know what, that's actually kinda like, like how hard is that to be like, I know you're next.
Julia: So it puts like, it's almost like you have this immediate barrier to mothering because you know that that's your replacement and it almost is, this si it almost, not as dramatically, but it ki you can kind of apply that also to Violet and Anthony because even though like the vi count, whatever the term, however, Tense is supposed to be in that scenario, even though like that is a pass down thing, it's not, you know, you're not always necessarily like looking at your child and thinking you're next and I'm not ready.
Julia: Right. We're . Yeah. But you are thinking like you're next and we need to train you up for this and da, da da. And so it, you know, I always, I felt like, God, that's gotta be hard to be in a position where you eventually have. Pass your titles and everything to the next person, like how would that affect mm-hmm.
Julia: because my son and I are, well, I'll say it, I don't know if he agrees, but I'm gonna assume he agrees. My son and I are close, like mm-hmm. , you know, he came home one weekend for, um, from college just because, you know, he was like, I just wanted to come home and we talked. Sort of regular. So I can't imagine being in a position where we're immediately set apart from each other.
Julia: Mm-hmm. , because of our situ, our station in life. Like that to me, would, and I would probably be like Diana, where I'm just like, screw your rules. . . I'm loving on my babies. . I know. Oh yeah. Like, I mean, I had
Cindy Marie: about five minutes of sympathy for Charles and then, Came back for like spurts and then it was done. Um, but yeah, they did a good job of making that relationship weird.
Cindy Marie: Um, and, and yeah, I mean if she, if Violet was really that involved in the day-to-day and the books, which really feels like they were, I'm sure that after he died, just like they did for her birth room, like everyone in charge. just, okay. It's Anthony now. Yeah. You know Edmond's the one that opened up for her?
Cindy Marie: Yeah. Edmond's. The one and what a sweet actor they chose for Edmond. Yeah, but like what? He's the one that like made it, that had the power to make it a relationship. I actually wanted to find out if he was the vi count or if, if she was with the title and he married into it, but I couldn't figure that out.
Julia: Oh, I bet that's interesting. There is a prequel with about Violet and Edmond. Oh, right. Yeah. I forget what it's called, but there's a prequel. I wonder if it explains it in the prequel. Okay. I might have to read that next. Yeah. I haven't gone down that road yet. I read every single bridger book this this year.
Julia: Um, well, I read the, the Duke and I and the VI count who loved me last year, and then the rest I read this year. Or maybe I read the vi count, who loved me this year? , what is
Cindy Marie: time? I'm really, I'm really torn cuz like, I really wanna get to Benedict's story, but of course Colin and Penelope are next. That makes sense.
Cindy Marie: They're
Julia: wonderful. I loved Benedict's story. I think it's my favorite .
Cindy Marie: He's, he's
Julia: well, and Colin and Penelope was good too. And I actually was, and we'll get, we'll get it more into the book to screen stuff in a bit in a second. Mm-hmm. . But I was really irritated that they announced. whistle down is, um, in the first season because I was like, this is literally the whole Penelope Colin book.
Julia: Mm-hmm. . You're telling us. And then now what are you gonna do with Penelope and Colin? Like how is their season gonna go? What are you doing Shonda land? Anyway,
Cindy Marie: they better not shy away from the sex scene . Right. Like they do. I will be so angry. . Yeah. . Those
Julia: actors deserve it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
Julia: If you understand the nuances and intersections of being a Bipo woman, a woman identifying a woman in a male dominated industry, and all the microaggressions that come with the daily existence and how media reinforces those stereotypes, but you still love pop culture and then pop culture makes me jealous.
Julia: Best Friends Club on Patreon is just for. Join an incredible community of like-minded individuals who meet monthly to discuss a different topic in pop culture, access to bonus content, weekly, lunchtime, hangout sessions, and discounts on merch. To learn more about how to become a part of the best friends club, visit pop culture makes me jealous.com/become a member.
Julia: There's a hyphen in between. Become a Member, become hyphen a hyphen member. See
Cindy Marie: you.
Cindy Marie: We
Julia: have merch visit pop culture makes me jealous.com/merch to purchase today. Some hoodies and t-shirts are the pop culture staples, but you don't wanna miss out on our seasonal collections, whether it's specific to the show or a season. Catch those limited edition styles before they're. Visit pop culture makes me jealous.com/merch To shop and use promo code shop pod to receive 15% off your first order.
Julia: That's S H O P P O D. Be sure to tag us on social, wearing your swag.
Julia: We're looking for advertising. When you support the podcast, you're supporting a woman owned bipo small business. We're looking for other small business partners who want to get in front of an audience of like-minded folks looking to smash the patriarchy and make cultural change. Email pop culture makes me jealous@gmail.com.
Julia: To get started,
Julia: one of the quickest and easiest ways to support our show is by subscribing, rating and reviewing our podcast on Apple Podcast. Sharing with other users while you love this show and reasons to tune in, is a simple kindness that will forever go appreciated by team pop. Culture makes me jealous. I'm gonna be honest.
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Julia: Do you love to read? Pop Culture Makes me Jealous. Hosts a monthly book club that reads books that have been adapted for the screen. We meet on the fourth Sunday of every month via Zoom. The book club is open to anyone but Patreon Pals can vote on our monthly read and have access to our replay to sign up.
Julia: Hit the link in the.
Julia: In a variety review written by Carolyn from Maki. I don't know if I'm saying that right, and I tried to find how to pronounce it and I just couldn't find it. It was so irritating. But anyway, I tried . She notes that quote. The eldest Bridgeton this season emphasizes had to grow up long before he was ready after his father's son and death, as both his mother and sister Daphne learned in a series of genuinely moving scenes, the only way Anthony could cope with both the loss and subsequent rush of responsibility was to force himself to prioritize logic over all emotions at all cost.
Julia: End quote. So what do you think of Anthony's evolution in this season? Um, I
Cindy Marie: think it starts to crack because Kate knows what he went through, what he's going through. Mm-hmm. , like, if they did not have that oldest sibling giving at all up for the oth for the family, um, they would not, they wouldn't have nearly had that connection.
Cindy Marie: So the cause even with other, possibly other VI counts or, you know, other. oldest sons, it's very possible they never had the kind of pressure that he was under, or no. Seven children to think, seven children under him to think of. Um, it's very odd to be that we're gonna get Gregory and HIAs. . Like that just seems very strange
Julia: at this point.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah.
Cindy Marie: But, uh, they, um, Obviously I wanted him to go faster because like, come on, . Um, and I loved the part, I think around like episode five or six when he starts to, like, the whole time he is like, this is the way, this is the way, oh, maybe no wait. This is what I'm gonna do. Um, and, and Kate doesn't do anything to help on the other side of it.
Cindy Marie: It's not until episode five or six that he's like, oh, I, if it's her idea, oh, there's a, there's a way to do this that he hasn't quite thought as far, so far as to like, not then get Kate, but it's the really the first time. And his mom gives him this idea. Mm. That he can turn this around. Mm-hmm. , it just has to be edwina's idea.
Cindy Marie: Yeah. Um, and still, you know, they push forward, but, um, but she deserved it. Edwina deserved her moment to tell them off a few times. Yeah,
Julia: totally.
Cindy Marie: Um, but yeah, it was very, his evolution was like, was just so slow. Um, , but I always, I love the moments when he and Kate are almost there. Mm-hmm. and more times than not, she's the one that pulls back.
Cindy Marie: Yeah. And I thought that was great.
Julia: Yeah. Um, yeah, I thought, you know, the actress that plays Kate, whose name is escaping me, she is so
Cindy Marie: good. ,
Julia: she did such a beautiful job with like, you know, the, I don't wanna call 'em withering stairs, but you're just like, yeah, girl, looking at you, you're in love with that man.
Julia: Like a hundred percent in love. Um, and just their banter. I thought they had great chemistry together. Um, just the whole thing. I thought, gosh, you guys did it. Whoever the casting director was like, well done, you, because it all fit really nicely. I think this season. And they had such great
Cindy Marie: parallels too, of the other families, like with the other mothers and, um, oldest siblings or mm-hmm.
Cindy Marie: or just the mothers and the, and what they were going through with like Lady Feathering was actually quite cunning. And then her big moment at the end, which I just wanted to, ugh, I loved her. She was fantastic. Um, and Lady Danbury, you know, and her wonderful. Speech to Kate about, I earned this. You know, you don't really go into life hoping to be a widow.
Cindy Marie: Right. And I earned it because I loved, and I earned it because I lived and yeah. Um, and, uh, and who was the other one? Oh, lady Sharma. Mm-hmm. , um, the. And there's scenes with each other and like this understanding they have of each other and how they, they need to, to act and what they're doing. And I mm-hmm.
Cindy Marie: I felt a little betrayed by Violet when she was so angry at the Sharmas. Mm-hmm. after the, after the in-laws came over. Um, but I also get it because I think if you found out that they might have possibly only. To marry your son because he was, um, help, yeah. Yeah, for money. Um,
Julia: Yeah. Cause that's, sorry, go ahead.
Julia: Oh no, go ahead. So yeah, cuz that's another element that's hard too when it comes to wealth and power. It's like how do you trust that somebody really is falling in love with you and not just pushing this match because they know it's gonna be security. And that's, we see a lot of that in regency era stuff.
Julia: It's like the women you need to marry well. So that way you're secure and all the way, even up until like. Oh shit. That's, it still happens now. .
Cindy Marie: Mm-hmm. . Well, I mean, I, it didn't hit me until I was really looking at it in terms of wealth for this, that that's why Penelope is making money. Mm-hmm. , like she loves it.
Cindy Marie: I'm sure, you know, she obviously enjoys what she's doing, but like she's making bank.
Julia: Yeah. And she has to. Yeah. Cause
Cindy Marie: nobody thinks she's gonna get married. Yeah. Nobody, um, Nobody thinks she's doing anything and like her family's completely ruined and you know, so it, and, and yeah, the whole this, that whole idea that like maybe Anthony also Anthony is also just not.
Julia: Willing to believe that he could fall in love. Yeah. Oh, that's a great point. And you know what, it's so that's such a believable element too, because the way that we meet him and the way that he behaves all through season one, and you know, the relationship between he and the opera singer, you're just kind of like, Like you could, like you think like you love her, but you're scared cuz the social stuff and all that stuff and that, that's really hard.
Julia: You, you, you know. And then also too, bringing up the feathering tins, like I think that's a really good, they were a really good counter to what was going on with the Britons. Yeah. Um, and. I think like you lady, by the end of season two, leading feathering to, I was like, girl, you, I am in your corner. . Mm-hmm.
Cindy Marie: I hated her. Hated her. Like through the
Julia: whole, up until that last bit. Yeah, because that's scary. Like I and you. and I think they do a really good job at getting you to appreciate how scary it is for a woman to not have money and to be in a position where like the reputation of your husband is now gonna also potentially ruin your daughters and like their prospects and just the delaying of the eldest.
Julia: Is it the eldest or the second daughter? I think it's the second daughter for second. The second daughter. Um, her marriage because the dowry hasn't been paid yet and you're just like, oh my God. Like just dow Just kidding. I know. Just can't With the dowry,
Cindy Marie: I'm like, somebody mentions to Anthony after the, the big blow up dinner, like, you know, and they're not gonna get a dowry.
Cindy Marie: He's like, Like a do matters to me. That's not the point. .
Julia: Yeah, exactly.
Cindy Marie: I just, it's a big luxury not to have to
Julia: worry about that. Yeah. Big time. And it's interesting because I always thought like vi, I don't know, I didn't think vi counts were super high on the chain of the um, uh mm-hmm. hierarchy when it came to being, whatever you wanna call them, part of the ton.
Julia: fourth rank. Okay, so fourth rank.
Cindy Marie: They're below a Duke Mar Marques, is it? Marques and Earl, but they're above a baron,
Julia: so that makes sense on why the comments in other Regency era stuff about Barron's. Okay. Hmm.
Cindy Marie: Little. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of Regency material. Mm-hmm. .
Julia: and I eat it up. I don't know why, because my people were enslaved during that time.
Cindy Marie: like, and there was this, there's somebody was talking about how it's just such a weird period where anybody, anybody who's adapting a regency novel or just making a regency story is just putting whatever they want into it. Mm-hmm. , you know, which is what most adaptations are. Like whatever the need of the audience is at the time.
Cindy Marie: But like the regency just seems very like, oh, we can do those. Those are cheaper costumes. Or like, yeah, has a ton of stock of those. We can just do that, you
Julia: know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Gosh. So funny.
Julia: If you understand the nuances and intersections of being a Bipo woman, a woman identifying a woman in a male dominated industry, and all the microaggressions that come with the daily existence and how media reinforces those stereotypes, but you still love pop culture, then pop culture makes me jealous.
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Julia: Do you love to read? Pop Culture Makes me Jealous. Hosts a monthly book club that reads books that have been adapted for the screen. We meet on the fourth Sunday of every month via Zoom. The book club is open to anyone but Patreon Pals can vote on our monthly read and have access to our replay to sign up.
Julia: Hit the link in the.
Julia: The Netflix original is a screen adaptation of Book of the book series by Julia Quinn, book two, the Vi Count Who Loved Me. The premise for both the book and season two is Vi Count Bridger's Quest To find the perfect vi count test. There are major differences between part two of the Bridger Saga. So how do you think Season two compares to book?
Cindy Marie: um, watched a series before the book I need, so I had my prejudices. Yeah. And I had the people in my head. Um, although it was actually difficult cause I think the per I did the audio books and I think that the Voice for an Anthony was also the voice of the Duke. And it was very hot. It was hot. Oh,
Julia: interesting.
Cindy Marie: Either. Yeah, it was very close. If not the same. It was very weird. But um, . Well, one thing I have to say, and I didn't notice this as much with the Duke who loved me, is as much as they changed, they, they did what really good fairytale adaptations do, and they kept all the symbols. Mm-hmm. , they slightly changed the ring conversation, but they had it, they.
Cindy Marie: He couldn't express to anybody, of course, that, like her smell of Lily was part of what attracted him to her. And he had this whole thought process on why it was Lily. But like they mentioned Lily soap in the bath. Mm-hmm. . Um, and, and there were other scenes where like they touched on those things so that if you read the book before, like you had those touchstones and you, you felt still in the same story.
Cindy Marie: So I thought adaptation wise, that was really great. Um, And I remember like after I watched season two, all of this algorithm, you know, my algorithm just gave me all this like bridgeton back behind the scenes bridge scenes and I'm like, ok, fine, I'll read it all. And what, and what a lot of, you know, I think what the Showrun said is like in the book,
Cindy Marie: Um, they are Anthony and Kate. He is wooing Edwina, but they are caught in a compromising position because of the beast thing, and it's because of that they have to get married. And then like most of the half, second half of the book is him just admitting he loves
Julia: her . Yeah. Yeah.
Cindy Marie: Um, and it's good. It was interesting, but it was very weird.
Cindy Marie: And the showrunner had said, we can't do that again. Like in a, in a series. We can't do that again. Yeah. I'm really glad they didn't because, you know, is, is her, is like really odd as it was for Edwina to not see it. I get why she didn't. Um, I thought that led in the series letting her have that moment af you know, of.
Cindy Marie: She's so sweet. She's so virtuous and so perfect. Mm-hmm. . And then she's like, , fuck you all . Yeah. Um, and, and in the book she's kind of like, oh yeah, well I thought everybody, I could tell he preferred you. I'm surprised anybody thought he preferred me and that's it. So I, it was weird cause I didn't like the Edwina part of the storyline in the series until I, until it was nothing in the book.
Julia: Yeah. Um.
Cindy Marie: Yeah, I, sorry, go ahead. Oh, um, we also don't, we don't get those motherson scenes. Mm-hmm. , we don't get those awesome speeches you talked about. Mm-hmm. , um, near the end, I was like, is this a, is this a time, is this the time we're gonna get? Is he gonna go to Violet? Is she. finally, like say something to him of note.
Cindy Marie: And like, it got to the point where I got to the epilogue and I'm like, I skipped a chapter. I must have skipped a chapter. Right? . But no, it, um, his brothers kind of do it to him, but, um, but it's not the same. And it, yeah. And he has this, I, I, I liked, like I said before, I liked his struggle in the series a lot better.
Cindy Marie: Spoilers, but in the book, he just has this idea that he's never gonna, he can't surpass his father. And because, and that includes his age. Yeah. And it's so stupid. Like, I got it, I bought it. I bought it, and then like halfway through, I'm like, no, this is dumb. Yeah. . Like, it's one thing if, if, you know, he thought that there was.
Cindy Marie: Disease or something that they, they got, but yeah. , um mm-hmm. .
Julia: Yeah. I read the book first before watching season two, and then after having read all of the books mm-hmm. , because at first I was like, oh, I can't believe they deviated, like from the formula, like, whatever, so irritating, blah, blah, blah. And then I read all of the books.
Julia: Mm-hmm. and I was like, Yeah, you cannot do four seasons of this formula. Because by the time I got to Gregory's book, I was like, okay, get it. Like, let me just, I like skimmed it. Is it the same, it's the same formula. Every single book. Every single book. And, and, and I think those, um, Because they're second Epilogues too.
Julia: So I don't know which version you rented, but I got, I got second Epilog the second. Okay. So I'm like, so did she come in after with the second epilogue to kind of give us a little bit more So we had a better, so we weren't left with like, I just read the same book over and over and over.
Cindy Marie: I. I thought their second epilogue was fun, but like it
Julia: didn't add anything.
Julia: Yeah. So, you know, initially I was just like, okay, whatever. I'm so irritated with this. And then after reading every single book, it was like, okay. , I get it. You had to. You absolutely had to because you cannot have four seasons, five season, eight seasons, whatever many seasons they're gonna have of this same formula because we're gonna get tired of it.
Julia: I don't care how steamy the scenes are. I don't care how withering the stairs are it after a while, unless you space them out far enough for us to be like, we forgot what Season one was about and all the details of season one. But I Did you make fun of it?
Cindy Marie: Yeah. With the feathering kids, like, yeah. Can't do that again.
Julia: Yep. But like you, I loved all the little touches that they did that kind of tied in the, the main stor, uh, their book. Um, as much as they did, I thought that they did a really good job. I appreciate how much more they do involve the moms, um, in the series compared to the book. Because what the books do, it makes it very much, this is.
Julia: Phoebe or Phoebe, that's her real name. . This is, um, Daphne's story and we're only focusing on Daphne and the Duke. And here's Anthony and Kate. And then here's, you know, Benedict and the gal he fell in love with and so on and so forth. And the series is a really good, does a really good job at being like, this is a whole family story.
Julia: And I, I love that change because we don't have a lot of representation of families who love each other but can also sometimes hate each other. But then they come back and love each other like you're either one extreme or the other on tv. And I love that they sort of tie in this like, because it feels like how families, if you know how families could be, not everyone's family is like that, but if you remove the wealth and power, Like we mentioned earlier, there's days where I'm like, I just can't with my parents today.
Julia: And then there's days where I'm just like, mom, I need you to come over . Yeah. And I feel like they capture that really, really well. Yeah. And
Cindy Marie: I, I do love that, like Colin and Benedict and Anthony, um, like they get drunk and mm-hmm. and those younger brothers are just relentless. Yeah. with, they're like, dude, You're being an app like you, you know it.
Cindy Marie: Why they don't even know yet that it's Kate. I think it's only like the second drunken . Yeah, . They, I think Benedict is like, come on, we see this. Yeah. And yeah, but I, I, it, it, it was interesting like for her too, that. In the book. She's so much more, it's so much more about her believing that anyone could love her.
Cindy Marie: Mm-hmm. , I think she was beautiful compared to Wena. And again, the, the way that they, they strengthened the bond and made it, made both their attraction and why they couldn't, didn't feel like they could be together. So real from their, their bond of being the older sibling. Mm-hmm. was just like, Oh, horrible.
Cindy Marie: I loved it.
Julia: Yeah. And I love that they didn't tie in the whole like, I'm not good enough and pretty enough to be in love with Like, that in the book really bothered me. Cause it was like, can we, I mean, I understand that the series was released like 20 years ago. Okay. But still like, we need to stop telling that narrative.
Julia: We need to stop creating things. Like, and now like, see, she can be loved even though she's homely looking. Mm-hmm. like, I hate that shit so much.
Cindy Marie: Yeah, it is
Julia: not a fan. . Oh man.
Cindy Marie: That's another reason I'm like, don't shy away from Penelope sex scenes. It's like, yeah.
Julia: Oh man. And I thought their book was actually really good.
Julia: I don't know if I was into it more because it was like, oh, the Z knew she's whistled down and Colin and all these things and I'm so here for it. Um, so I don't know if that like changed it for me, but by, like I said, by the time I got to Gregory's book, I was just like, okay, I get it. Like I know what's gonna happen.
Julia: I'm just gonna skim to the good parts. . .
Cindy Marie: Okay, good. I don't have, maybe I'll, I'll read recall it. I'll read the next two cause I like those two, but yeah. They're probably gonna have to skip ahead a few years if they're gonna keep
the
Julia: series going. Yeah. Honestly. And the books do that. Um, because they're pretty much so, like the way I read, the way I read 'em after I got through to Eloise and Francesca too, like the, they're all concurrently happening.
Julia: Hmm. Like Colin and Eloise are happening at the same time, but they have their own separate book. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I was like, oh,
Cindy Marie: that's interesting.
Julia: Mm-hmm. . So, I mean, she, the Julia Quinn does a good job at like, Telling, like showing you how they're happening at the same time, but they're their own book.
Julia: But still, again, after a while, it's like, oh, you've gotten into some scam that somebody saw you do and now you have to get
Cindy Marie: married. Like, oh yeah, I don't
Julia: want Eloise to get married. But in the town and Country interview referenced earlier, Ruth offers this insight into. It takes him falling in love to have a brutally honest conversation with his mother for not only her to realize, but for him to realize the enormity of it.
Julia: That's exactly what I love about the complexities of human frailty, your cause and effect, and the implications that every decision you make, intentional or unintentional has consequences. End quote. The relationships between mothers and sons often have a negative representation in pop culture. But what I love about Violet and Anthony is she understands her job as a mother isn't over just because Anthony has grown.
Julia: Thank you so much for coming on this show today and joining me today. Um, can you tell our friends at home where they can find you? If they wanna keep up with you, show her. Um, uh,
Cindy Marie: my website is easy. It's cindy marie jenkins.com and, uh, Twitter and Instagram are at Cindy Marie J. Um, and, uh, pretty soon I'm gonna have a, a fun announcement if people are interested in more about parenthood and pop culture.
Cindy Marie: Uh, but I'll announce it all there too, and I'm just so glad I had a, a reason to delve into the book and yeah, get to wa and watch that. Season again.
Julia: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Cindy Marie: There's some really good side
Julia: stories on that season too. Yeah. I'm excited to see what they do, um, in future seasons too. Um, and we'll link everything in the show notes for our friends at home, so you have no excuse not to go and check everything out.
Julia: Okay. Pop culture makes me jealous, is written, edited, and produced by me, Julia Washington. And I am fueled by the incredible support system of women who allow me to run ideas, cry, melt down whenever I feel overwhelmed. I also wanna do a big shout out to our Patreon community. Thank you for your continued support.
Julia: It brings me great joy to bring you quality content, and monthly get togethers. Thanks for tuning in y'all. Until next time.
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