Bridgerton Pt. 2 | 17
Show Notes:
Melissa's back and we are dissecting episodes 3 and 4 of Bridgerton! It's starting to get good.
Transcript:
Julia: Welcome back gentle listeners. Our Bridgeton discussion continues as Melissa and I discuss episodes three and four.
I'm your host, Julia. And this is pop culture. Makes me jealous. If you missed last week, go back and give it a listen before you dive into this one. But for. This quick message.
Hey friends, I just wanted to pop in real quick and say, thanks for listening and sticking with. I really appreciate it. And you taking the time to listen really means a lot. If you are listening to us on apple podcasts, I would love it. If you could drop us a review, I know it's not always an easy task or sometimes we think we'll do it real quick and then we get distracted.
Heavens don't. We never getting distracted. It would really mean a lot to me. If you just drop a couple of notes on what you think of the show, I'd love it. If you gave us five stars, but you know, you do, you, I understand you have to be true to what your, your belief system is about this program. With that said, I'll let you get back to the show now.
And now here we go to. Okay. So that brings us into episode three, where the queen basically brings her. Friedrich of Prussia. You know, she's getting restless with like the duke and Daphne taking their sweet ass time because apparently if they've been hanging out this much and there's no proposal, that's too long per nephew comes to visit, he's the prince of Prussia and he's, you know, just cute little nugget.
And human and he's just enthralled with Daphne of course. Cause you know, she's the timing of the season. Why wouldn't it be right? And so then it becomes this whole conflict of like Simon, if you're not serious. Yeah. Like if you're not serious, you need to let her go. Cause the prince is like paying attention now and like that's huge.
Do you really want to hold her back from being a princess? It's hard
Melissa: because they're essentially telling him like shit.
Julia: And he wants to, because he's clearly in love with her, but he's conflicted because of, like you said earlier, his childhood trauma, the relationship with his dad, he knows that Daphne wants a big family because she came from a big family and you know, all these things that he's just like, I can't deny her, those things that she wants, but also I want her, we have to talk about the scene in Somerset.
When they like sorta touch hands, you know, so good. It's like just that rate
Melissa: amount of tension and Shonda Rhimes is really good at that.
Julia: And you, I am an avid Grey's anatomy watcher. I might be the only person on the planet who doesn't watch Grey's anatomy. I love
Melissa: things that have that type of tension too, because that's a really hard thing to capture that tension buildup and that's really hard to do, and they do it so well with just that scene in
Julia: British, in that moment, my takeaway was they both have a moment where they realized that they love the other person, but they haven't.
The ability to say to the other person, I love you. So they're simultaneously experiencing this intense romantic emotion, and then, but then they don't realize that the other one's experiencing it as well. So they feel vulnerable and they don't want to share it. Especially the Duka Hastings. He does not do vulnerability that great.
I mean, he does like his care, like the actor does a great job, but like he's only vulnerable. Sometimes it just really like highlights. How much they feel free. I love
Melissa: seeing people in love before they know it. I was watching that and we've all seen it before. We've all seen like two people, like hanging out with them and you're just like, wow, they have really good
Julia: chemistry together.
Like, it's interesting to hear. Daphne's curiosity keeps growing, like as they're in this sort of facade of being in a relationship. And now she's genuinely curious because now she's having feelings for him. Why won't he get married? And when she confronts Anthony about that, and Anthony is just like, you don't need to know anything.
This is none of your business. Don't worry about it. I'm not letting you marry him anyway. I'm like
Melissa: part of me is like, does he know? Because that would be a really vulnerable thing for the duke of Hastings to divulge to his friend. Like, even if they are like drinking buddies and they go to brothels all the time, like, I can't really see them having like this in-depth conversation late at night.
Sitting together and, you know, the duke of Hastings telling him his deepest, darkest secrets of at, in childhood, I had a stutter, right. Because I was, you know, B rated and essentially made. Unworthy of my title. And then my dad died and on his deathbed said, how great of a duke I'm going to be? And I said, fuck you,
Julia: the duke I'm going to be, even though you basically ignored me my whole life and called me an imbecile.
Okay.
Melissa: But I've, but you're so proud of me. Like what, what even is that? I highly doubt that he told the vice count that, so I feel. Like that is something that he says to Daphne, because he really doesn't know. And he doesn't want to show vulnerability by not having information.
Julia: Oh, that's a good point. I just assumed it was because he does see him going in and out of like brothels and whatnot.
And because he's been so adamantly vocal, but that doesn't. Yeah, I buy it. I believe you. The narrator of the show, as we all know, is one of the best voices in the world is Julie Andrews. In the episode, there is the prince, obviously we've talked about the prince, but you know, so all the ladies are trying to get at him.
And so while the duke and Daphne are in this room in Somerset house where they're having their moment, you know, they get drawn back into reality because one of the gals whose name. Spoons. And so before we learned that she swoons lady whistled down voice comes on and says, you know, these days the modern young lady must display a litany of talents in her quest first suitor.
She must be a witty, conversationalist and accomplished musician and an expert in the art of this. And for me, I was like, oh, that sounds like every guy's dating profile. When he's talking about what kind of woman he's looking for minus this spooning, he must be a Woody conversationalist and you must entertain me kind of shit on gay.
Nothing's changed in 300 years. And then back to our conversation earlier about how spooning is like an art form that you gotta know how to spoon to get a guy's attention. Ladies, bad spooning. Doesn't get you a husband, weird.
Melissa: Like, let me get this straight. You have to be a good conversationalist. You have to play.
The instrument or sing well or something, you have to be entertaining. And you also have to know how to faint on command at the correct.
Julia: Let's just, let's just talk about how, you know, you're thank you for confirming that we're only allowed to be ornamental.
Melissa: Why do we have to be so ornamental that we have to know how to fall on the ground
Julia: without breaking a bone,
Melissa: or like giving ourselves a concussion like that?
Because all of the floors are marble. I just don't understand where it came from. Like, what
Julia: is this practice? But, you know, again, in this episode we learned that Eloise is still kind of is still her own person. You know, she says something to Benedict. The relationship is. Just so adorable. So the swimming happens or at Somerset house, all these things happened.
And then later that night, you know, Benedict and, um, Eloise are in the backyard or in the yard smoking and Benedict's conflicted cause he's the second son. And you know, he's kind of an artist and he's feeling a little lost, which I feel like is true for second children. I don't know. I'm a third child after this mooning in Somerset house and there are the families back at home.
And so now Daphne's like conflicted because. Obviously she's discovered these feelings that they're real for the duke. And, you know, she's trying to figure out what to do. And then it becomes very well known that the princess like, Hey girl, Hey to her. And so she, and, and, and Eloise have this conversation later where Eloise is terrified by the fact that her mom has, was in so much pain in child.
One to the idea of, again, the whole coming out, being a marriageable marriageable age, like Eloise is struggling with this. So then she says to her sister, you wish to follow your heart. And I wish to nourish my mind. And I thought that statement was so powerful in not just demonstrating or highlighting Eloise's struggle, but then also reminding Daphne that they are very different, even though they are sisters, even though they're basically bred to do the same thing.
I think that
Melissa: that goes into the idea of women have always been different and there are some of us that really do want to follow up. And do all of those things and get married and have children and being maternal. And there's nothing wrong with that. There are also women that equally inherently want to not have children and not be partnered and be independent and work hard and nourish their mind.
And I think that that's something that kind of plays into this has always been a thing that feminism is not. Raymond didn't just suddenly wake up one day and go wake up one day and be like,
Julia: I like having a job, I strongly relate to Eloise's storyline, big time. Like I, this is going to sound very, I'm just going to risk it.
So I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine about how, like there's a level of protection when it comes to certain types of racism, because I've always been like the most beautiful one in the room. And there's like this exotic appeal and we live in a community that sort of fetishizes. Type of stuff.
Right? So there's a level of Daphne that I relate to being, you know, the diamond of everything. So like when that was statement was made, I was like, oh, I get that. Like, I've been there. I've been that girl. The difference is I was that girl, but with an LOE spirit commitments, not a thing. To do. I mean, now I'm like, okay, maybe I can't commit, but like I wasn't, I wasn't chasing the fit those things.
I didn't care about having boyfriends. I didn't really like, I wanted life experiences. I wanted to travel. I want to do all these things. So I really heavily related to Eloise her character in that way, because she's desperate to make herself into a better person and explore all these facets that she knows about herself already that are such at a primmer level.
She's not allowed to. And so when she says that to Daphne, it was just like, yeah, girl, like, listen, just wait. 300 years. It gets a little
Melissa: slightly lane.
Julia: We get to go to college.
Melissa: Now we do and get to go to college. You get to wear pants. I love when Daphne and Simon are discussing their nighttime
Julia: rituals.
This was such an interesting conversation. And this was so not something that I was expecting.
Melissa: Same because it's
Julia: so it's so improper to talk
Melissa: about touching oneself. That would not be a topic of comfort that would just not be a topic of conversation. So the fact that they threw that in there,
Julia: which makes me wonder if it's in the book.
So if I get to that part and it is there, I'll let you know.
Melissa: I really hope that it is because that is such a game
Julia: changer to know that you can. Handle your own business,
Melissa: handle your own business and, uh, get a, get satisfaction yourself. First of all, they don't know what sex is. We don't know what's going to happen in the marital bed.
They don't know that at night, they're going to be expected to take up their closely with a naked man
Julia: to do all kinds of things and do all types of things.
Melissa: And they have no clue what's coming, but they definitely don't think that any satisfaction or pleasure
Julia: is going to come from that because it's not about them.
It's not about them. It's never about them. It's about the guy doing his own satisfaction to have the duke of
Melissa: Hastings, go into this and be like, no, it's actually great. You should try this. I feel like you need this. You feel a little, you look a little bit. I think you need
Julia: to try that. And she's so naive too, because we've taught, we've already, you know, we've mentioned this a couple of times, like she literally has no idea about any, none of them do it.
Hence Eloise's mission to find out how you become with child when you're not married.
Melissa: So then he gives her this like life changing information. And if you don't think. That learning how to give yourself an orgasm is life-changing information. You don't know how to give yourself an orgasm and you should really try it sometime.
Julia: It's going to throw that out there. I am what I said. I am not sorry. I'm going to let you throw that out there. I'm also going to refrain from commenting because my mother, so
Melissa: the
Julia: show in every episode, she's playing this, this piece and it doesn't have an end in this particular episode, like. Figure out how to end it.
And even her mom calls her out on it, like, oh no, Eloise calls her out on it about like, are you are going to finish this? It has to be, have a name, blah, blah, blah. Right. Then they have that scene when they're nodding. And like you say, when he's like, what do you need to touch yourself at night? And then the next day after she figures out how to handle her business, Oh,
Melissa: you finished.
And you notice that she asks, did you give it a name? Well, did you give it a name? And she says yes, but she never tells us the name.
Julia: Yeah. I just, that scene was so perfect because one the way that the ma oh, you finished, like, I just thought that was like a really great, like, oh yeah. Unexpected, double
Melissa: entendre definitely did finish.
It was well done. And it, like I said, I think that that is a very important. Yeah. Spoken part of
Julia: sexuality even now. Yeah. Even like
Melissa: just this year, I'm now just starting to see more
Julia: information coming out about female masturbation and about, and about that
Melissa: topic in general. And it's starting to become a little bit more normalized.
Right. I think that was very appropriate that they put that in maybe not for the time period, but for this time period,
Julia: it's definitely their way of sort of modernizing the show. In other than obviously the casting decisions, but as well as timely topics that are happening, marina Thompson's situation, you know, she's come to the feathering tins because she hasn't had her courses.
And who knows how long there's this fella at home, but he's not at home. He's away at war who she is. Situation with, and lady Farrington's trying to marry her off to any old fart who needs an error. Cause they won't question her child being born six months later. Right. And then taking her to the poor side of town to show like, this is your future.
This is what it's going to look like for you kind of shit. And Marina's like, you're not scaring me. You don't scare me. I came from a farm lady, I think. Sort of S a narrative that still sort of rings true today. This idea of like you are unwed and pregnant and have no employee skills you need to fix. And the only solution to fix it is marriage and an 18, 13.
That really was the only solution to fix it because women weren't allowed to have anything. They were still sort of property. I don't know. I liked marina. I liked that. She held out, I liked that she was like, fuck, you know, like that she was
Melissa: too, but at the same time on lady, Farrington's part like, can you
Julia: blame her?
No, she's, it's gonna bring dishonor to her whole house. If anybody.
Melissa: Well that, and not only that, like she already was getting screwed over by this girl coming into the household in the first freaking place. Like she's got these three daughters that are like, they are playing, they are Dowdy. Penelope is definitely the prettiest one.
Oh my gosh.
Julia: But then
Melissa: you've got this gorgeous, gorgeous girl who has who's coming from no money. She's coming with a dowery. She's coming with something. Why is she coming? We don't really know. We know that dad has gambled away all of the debts and that she's coming in. She must have a dowery
Julia: yeah. Or something, or they're paying her to take off, take them on that's the impression I got that Lord Featherston was getting paid to have her for the summer and to marry her
Melissa: off.
Right. Because he was in debt
Julia: to. Everybody, everybody,
Melissa: including her father. And then like lady Farrington has these like gaudy choice of seasonal
Julia: colors are so bad. I mean, they're great, but they're so bad. It embarrassing to the rest of the cast.
Melissa: And like the thing is she has to just keep, she has to act like it's on purpose.
She has to act like those are the colors of her choice and she likes it this way. And like, you know, this is just how they are. They like to be seen. And they like to like, no. That's a total that's total bullshit. You're having to buy the Claire. She's essentially having to buy off the clearance rack guides and her daughters wardrobe.
Total clearance. K-Mart special.
Julia: Yeah. Cause at one point in Pell, Penelope was like, I think this is a later episode, but Penelope Penelope is like, oh good. It's yellow again.
Melissa: And then the one ball that she goes to without everyone in a really. Uh, really not, I can't remember what color it is, but it's not, it's not super like obscene.
Right. When she even says something of the nature of like, yeah, it's not, it's probably not yellow enough for my mom's liking, but can you imagine how stressful that must be for lady bettering chin to know that she has to buy these expensive clothes, they have to have these ballgowns. They have to have multiple ballgowns for all of these different balls, because you can't be wearing the same dress to two different balls.
Nope.
Julia: Cause everyone's going to know. They're
Melissa: all going to literally see you and they're going to talk shit on how toxic is that. And so she knows that she has to do all of these things. She has to spend all of these, this money. And she knows that just by the colors that they're wearing, everyone's going to know.
So she has
Julia: to downplay it. It is a point to where the pressure of having three daughters in a Susan and Penelope even asks her mom, like, you know, can we delay just like how many. Bridger tinted with, um, Eloise and no, no, we, we can't, we can't. And I thought that was interesting that she was choosing not to delay cause how expensive is that?
Right. Every girl comes with a dowery. And so we're talking a generational wealth situation. As we learn later on the feathering tens are, you know, well, we kind of always know, but we really start to know as Lord Farrington is a philanderer and he just kind of is a wasteful human and he's very suspicious.
And so now it's like the pressure on him to be able to like provide three, if not four to Hillary's, that's a lot of pressure for a guy in that time period, but also can really off with the diary. It's like months fucked up. You shouldn't get money because you married me. Like that's not cool.
Melissa: No, I should get money for marrying you.
Amen, sir. If I have to deal with your nonsense ass, you better be giving me some fucking
Julia: capital. Amen. I have to train
Melissa: you. I definitely think that everyone in, in the feathering 10 situation, it just has to be very stressful, just constantly stressful. And I think that when you're in that stressful state, You
Julia: are just grasping.
Melissa: And that's what I see with lady Farrington is that she's just in this like blinded survival mode because she doesn't know all of the information. So she's just trying to do whatever she can to help her families, their mission, their situation, and not their reputation. It's right. She's trying to help their family's reputation by being able to have all of the, all of the money to let their daughter, but all three of their daughters come out in the same season.
They have to do it all at the same time, because if they, if they say that. Uh, Penelope stays out. Then what does that say about Penelope while she's confusing? Her thoughts? We know we know how lady federated feels about that. She's definitely not as progressive as lady Bridget in that sense. So there's that and the bridge curtains are by count of family versus a Lord and lady feather ringtone.
They are literally just Lords and ladies they're under a lot of heavy pressure and a lot of heavy scrutiny all the time.
Julia: Right? To make
Melissa: sure their reputation is good. So like, I just, I, it must be so stressful having to live that way.
Julia: When lady Danbury gives the duke the speech shit or get off the pot, but in her elegant way.
And, and they meet to have their, um, flavored. It's clearly painful for him to dump her because, you know, lady Danbury is like, you have to stop if you're, if she, if you're not serious, like the prince is a viable option, like don't get in the way of her becoming princess. And so when he's like, Daphne, we can't be together anymore.
Like you got what you wanted, which was the prince. And I got what I wanted, which was all the MAs getting off my back. But he's clearly like in so much pain doing this. It's so
Melissa: sad. It like, it reminds me of
Julia: those other movies where, you know, they're letting
Melissa: go of the wild animal. That's
like, it kind of reminds me of that. Like just the pain in
Julia: his voice. He's like an agony and something shifts in Daphne, right. Where she's like, well, if all I am is to be a beautiful ornament, Kind of, you played into all season Daphne, but okay then fine. I'll give them what they want. And then she definitely like hones in on the prince.
I
Melissa: feel like she didn't really like hone into that, like being an ornament because she played the game so well, she, she could talk, they concocted this plan together. Like she felt in control, right. She felt in control of the whole situation. And then she gets fricking dumped, which was not supposed to happen.
She was supposed to be the one. To end it and she was supposed to be the one to have the control. And so I'm sure that that hurt her pride. And then she's just like, well fine. They want me to just be this beautiful little flower and be demure and be like, perfect. And be the diamond of the season. I will show them, I am the fricking diamond of this season and I'll give them exactly what they want.
I
Julia: kind of felt like, well, you, you. I don't know. How did you guys not prepare for this to happen? Because the goal was, was to get you a proposal from somebody. No, one's going to propose if you're like you're engaged. Yeah. If people think that you're getting proposed to, or engaged to the duke at any moment, because that's literally the gossip,
Melissa: right?
Like he was never going to propose to her because then the, like another engagement wouldn't happen for her. Right. So they were always just supposed to be courting. And promenading and like essentially dating in this time, period. Well, then she really becomes the diamond of the season after she decides this and kind of tells the, kind of like says off to this entire city to this whole cording thing in season four, when she gets that.
Julia: Oh my gosh. Yes. Also her imagination running away with her as the princess putting it on her, but she's like totally having like this sexualized fantasy about the duke
Melissa: touching her neck, like, oh my God. It was, so that was a great, that was a really great
Julia: scene. I actually loved those scenes more. I don't want to know what you look like having sex personally.
That's not really a thing I'm into. I don't need to
Melissa: see the actual act. I don't, I
Julia: don't need to see the grit, the grunting. I don't need the grunting. I'm sorry. And that's my issue with the, with the opera singer, I think because there is a whole lot of grunting in there.
Melissa: It's a lot it's I appreciate that.
They're trying to that needs, that is something that needs to be more normalized is. Sex, does it sound like Corrine? That's not real. And if your sex doesn't sound like this, it's okay. But I just love that fantasy that she has. And I love all of those little, those little moments that built up sexual attention.
To me, it's better than like all of the scenes except for the staircase scene. That's her.
Julia: That's her casein is pretty high. And also I'm going to have to agree with you about all the other stuff too, because I love that sort of build up moment. Like those are the ones that are romantic because it's, in my mind, all of those little pieces and components is what really helps elevate the physical connection.
Physically connecting in intimate ways that are small and delicate and personal, rather than just like never having affection for each other at all. And then just like saving it all for the bedroom. Like that. To me, doesn't make sense if I'm dating somebody, I would like to have little tiny physical connections throughout the day because that's what you build.
That's the foundation in my mind.
Melissa: It's realistic when you're in that place, that like that new relationship energy. Right. That buildup happens like all the time when you're with that new person that you really like, you're in that honeymoon stage. And like, just really like that person and that feeling is just there all the time.
That pent up feeling you're going throughout your day. And maybe you see them like throughout the day, a couple of times here and there, but you can't do anything because there's no time and there's no whatever. Then that tension builds up when you have those little intimate moments. And that is a real thing that happened.
Julia: Sorry, mom. I know you're listening on top of
Melissa: the tension though, with the necklace, like the necklace,
Julia: just so. Amazing. It is beautiful. And I find it interesting that for all of its beauty, Daphne doesn't seem to be that into it. Rightfully so, because she's totally in love with the dude, but she just gets like very suffocated by it.
I think
Melissa: that they, I want to say that that was on purpose just by. The design of that necklace. It's like a bolt it's like a full
Julia: choker. Yeah. And then kind of has like a Dingaling down to the bottom type of situation. Yeah.
Melissa: Yeah. It's like a full, it's almost a full chest piece. And like I looked at, I looked at some of the crown jewels, like I just kind of went into a small rabbit hole.
I didn't like. Too far into it. I routinely look up the crowns, the English crowns to match them to whatever, you know, Monarch I'm learning about that week. Just to see if like maybe they based it off of one of the real crown jewels at that time, it doesn't look like it's specifically. It looks like they kind of did like a mashup of like a whole bunch of different things.
But I really think that that was the point to make it.
Julia: Something
Melissa: like she's being suffocated by the crown. She'd be suffocated by the royalty and like the pressure of becoming this princess, like she was going to be a Duchess, like in everyone else's mind because she was gonna marry duke. Right. Right.
Not really. But, you know, we all thought she was, we all thought that she was, and then now she's going to be a princess and she has to, she really does have to just keep playing this role. Now, now she can't get out of it. And I think that was like a good representation with that necklace. He could've given her anything.
He could've given her a ring. He could've given her a bracelet, pretty broach, a set of Combs. Anything during that time period
Julia: set of calms, it makes me think of that scene in little women, the 1994 little women, when Lori puts the Combs and Amy's hair when they're in Paris. Oh, that is so, ah, anyway.
Melissa: Yeah, but making it look like stifling, like, oh my God, this is what it means
Julia: to be trapped in a royalty,
Melissa: like, okay, this is my life now.
Julia: Like, okay. So here's, what's interesting to me, nobody made a big stink about the color blind casting and the slight changes that the Shonda land media group did with Britain and compared to the books, right?
Like that, wasn't a thing. Outraged on Twitter. I don't know if you remember this, but when like hunger games came out, they cast Seneca and Lenny Kravitz, they cast Lenny Kravitz and like the internet lost its shit, because they're like in the book, he's not a blood guy, which I didn't read hunger games. I had enough of dystopian youth novels in my high school years.
So I can't really, like,
Melissa: I did read it and they never specify what color. And
Julia: so, and that was the counter argument, right? So the counter argument was like, no, this isn't you're being stupid. And I think that highlights just how much we read through certain types of racial lenses, because we assume that the author is white.
So then the characters are white or whatever it is. And so that was a big thing. And like, they actually had to address it. And I just remember thinking this is fucking stupid. Lenny Kravitz is beautiful. Yes. Put them in a movie fast. How many years later that outrage did not happen when Burton was announced and they sort of have this like very robust cast.
And then when I, you know, you watch the series lady, Dan Barry has the speech with the duke and episode four, about how significant it is that she and the Duke's father and several member and the queen Charlotte, and all of these people who look like them are in positions of power. And. Part of this Royal lineage and et cetera, and how significant that is and how life-changing that was when Charlotte marries king George and like all of these little pieces.
And it's the only time in the show that they address the diversity of the cast. So at the time I was like, oh lady Dan Barry. Okay. You know, whatever. And then fast forward. And I'm learning more about the series. I'm learning more about the author, whatever. And then I'm like, do. Did we need that scene? I thought it was a great scene because I feel like when you're doing a period piece, when there's like really awful shit happening to nonwhite people, Yes, you have to sort of explain it, but like I'm, so I'm, I'm in this weird place in my life.
I'm like, I'm tired of the fact that we have to explain why people are related when they look different from each other, but also at the same time, they're dealing with a very real historical period of time with very real historical characters queen Charlotte. King George. So it almost is like, part of me is like, did we need that speech?
And the other part of me is like, well, yeah, we needed that
Melissa: speech. I totally understand where you're coming from. And like, because this is all based on just a theory that queen Charlotte was part black. Okay. And it's that, and the theory is that. Part black. She was mixed, not fully unapologetically black, the way that she is in Bridgeton, which I fully love and accept by the way, love her.
She's wonderful. However, this is really taking. Uh, Liberty with this, with this conceptualized theory, right? That queen Charlotte had African descendants in her background. And part of the reason that people think that is because of the language that was used to describe her, they used the same word. That they would use to describe black people at that time, plain ugly, a lot of really negative words, really rude words.
And she was, and I definitely looked her up. Uh, she wasn't a Looker, but let's just pretend that this theory was true and that Charlotte was black. Okay. That would really need to be discussed on how
Julia: that
Melissa: would. Play into what Regency time period would look like because in conjunction with this time period, it's 18, 13 on the other side of the ocean fully enslaved,
Julia: right?
Like, so when the duke of Hastings talks about how he's gone on his world tour or whatever, and he's back in England and I'm like, did you go to the Americas? Cause I feel like that's the thing you're not coming back from.
Melissa: Definitely.
Julia: And I know that England abolished slavery first, but I don't recall exactly what year that was.
So I never even bothered to look it up. I meant to, to kind of put that into, cause we're talking to 18, 13, was it 50 years before the, the states did. I feel like it was a significant amount of time in 1807. Okay.
Melissa: So it had already been abolished. So in this type, so with Bridger 10,
Julia: just a few years earlier.
Yeah. And so then you have the whole thing of like, they have 47 million children, the king and queen, and clearly some of those children kind of be like older than when it was a baller.
Melissa: There is the fact that queen Charlotte was very vocal about abolishing slavery, and she is part of the reason why slavery was abolished.
And that also is part of the reason why people think that in theory, she was part black because vocal about abolishing slavery. And why would a white queen. If black people are enslaved, why would she care? She was
Julia: also, yeah, it affected her family, effected her. So it forces us to have the suspension of disbelief too.
Right? Like how literal are we going to get to enjoy for me the first time I watched Fredericton, I didn't get literal about it because the duke of Hastings is hot as shit. Uh, but I, and I also think that the white count is attractive. I know that he's not your favorite. Oh, no,
Melissa: he's still hot boy. Oh, he's so all the bridges
Julia: and boys are hot.
Melissa: Was that what you going to say? Cause I feel like, yeah, I was going to say that, but like addictive stuff. I think he's cuter
Julia: than Anthony personally. Okay. So let's get that. We won't be fighting over which brother Richardson brother we want. And so, so you know, the first time I'm not. Living in I'm living in this suspended disbelief situation.
So that way I can enjoy the show and, you know, I love something that has beautiful men in it. The second time I watch it, then I'm like, wait a minute. Like I paid better attention to lady Danbury speech. And then, and then you start thinking of the historical context and whatnot. So I think it's bold that they chose to do that and, you know, bring the speech in when you know, People like us are going to like, just a little bit of research here.
I'm really like, remember remind ourselves what we learned in school,
Melissa: but it would mean for lady Danbury's speech, it would mean that lady Danberry lived through a time of enslavement and Ingram. Yeah. It means that she witnessed the changeover and the way that they're portraying it in the show, it sounds like they just like abolished slavery.
Julia: Boom, granted titles and land
Melissa: titles and land, and everything was just magically the way that it is. So historical context definitely lacking for the context of the show and the storyline. I find it very appropriate that they would have this conversation because she would have to like slap some sense into him.
If he is really young, be like, you need to fricking remember how bad it used to be for us. And the fact that we are part of court and you're acting this way appalling and I will.
Julia: Yes. And nobody wants your auntie to slap you. Cause that shit hurts. I honestly didn't think the world was going to be changing in the way that it is in my existence because 20 years ago, we weren't talking about being mixed.
We weren't talking about all of these issues that are existing, that, you know, gen Z is sort of blowing up right now, which thank you because we tried. As millennials tried, but like, we didn't get very far. So now it's like, it's crazy to see and nice because then that means maybe in my lifetime, there will be some peace for people who are mixed.
It's something that we haven't talked about, but we've sort of, sort of talked about was Antony and Sienna, Sienna, you know, the opera singer who he. Do you want against the tree when we first meet it, this whole like push pull, will they won't, they, he can't be with her because he's a vine account and he has all this family, but he's like, so in love with her, but is he in love with her?
He's totally in love with her. Like, there's just this whole light situation because. Class systems and status and all this stuff. It's just, you feel for her throughout the whole show up, you know, even through episode four, because she clearly loves him. He clearly loves her, but then there's all these hurdles that are getting in the way that aren't their own hurdles.
Like, guess they're their own hurdles, but really it's societal hurdles that have been placed that keeps them from a PR, keep them apart.
Melissa: Everyone needs to understand that, like the only reason that they can't be together is her family doesn't have a
title
Julia: singer. She makes her own way. Like how could you possibly marry a woman who can't be a gentle lady, right?
Melissa: Like you can't, you can't do it. She literally, she can't be presented to society. She can't do any of those things that you're supposed to marry into with all of your rules of being a by count. Right. Do these rules suck. They sure do, uh, patriarch is that's, it's sad. It's sad that they can't be together because of a caste system.
She does make her own way as an opera singer, but she also doesn't because she has to rely on finding of a man. To support her financially because he was supporting her financially. He had an apartment for her and was paying for an apartment for her to live in so that they can across town. They had their own little, you know, they had their own little love shack and
Julia: the constant, like, I'll take care of you and you know, I've got you and all
Melissa: that stuff.
And like, did he have to like, was the intention to just keep her on the other side of town in this apartment forever and never get married? Or was his intention to eventually get married? To someone in society and keep her in the apartment across.
Julia: Right. Which I can't see her standing like tolerating.
You can't, you can't watch the person. You love being married to somebody else. That's just, you just can't live through that.
Melissa: No, like that's not a, it's not a logical arrangement because of the time period. Like. Can't do that. And, but he's insistent that he's going to take care of her. That being said, I feel like that actually was the plan of, they both knew, well, eventually he's going to have to get married, but it's just going to be, it's just going to be a contractual marriage when he breaks up with her in the first episode and is like, I can't do this.
I bet it's a huge slap to the face. Cause I bet she was always like, well, I knew you were going to get married. Like what? The, like she never, she never thought he was going to marry her, but he always intended to take care of her and be true to her in a sense.
Julia: Right. And that puts her in a weird position because while she wants to believe him and she wants him to take, you know, to provide in this way, she also still has to figure out.
A plan B because he does do a lot of that back and forth with her heart. And she knows that she's in a precarious position because she is not necessarily a well-bred gentle lady. This position he's put her in with the will, will I won't die. Care for you is completely unfair. And it mindfuck because she just can't like, she just like, she can't rely on him.
He's pulled through, but then he doesn't pull through. And so it makes it inconsistent. And so now she has to actively make a choice. I need to find somebody who's going to care for me. Who's going to love me no matter what kind of situation. And she does start exploring that through the rest of the episodes.
And he just does not handle it. These
Melissa: are real jealous guy. He gets real upset. And then like, I love that he kind of like starts hallucinating seeing
Julia: her everywhere. Like he
Melissa: kept thinking that he would see her passing the corner and you'd see
Julia: her in the.
Melissa: What is it? Is it like a pub? Is it a lounge? Is it like a gentleman's lounge that there is
Julia: probably, they probably refer to the club.
Yeah. I'm going to the club. Speaking of Richardson, brothers call-in from the beginning, we know that we see that Penelope is in love with Colin and Colin just, you know, older than Daphne, but still deemed a child.
Melissa: And he, you know, how much older though, does it say in the books how much older he is then?
Julia: Yes. I want to say they're like 18 months.
Melissa: That's what I thought. Does it say the age got between him and the other two brothers? I don't remember because I feel like that's a thing. I feel like that's a significant reason why they're constantly referring to Colin as like so young. I feel like he is significantly younger than the other two brothers, Anthony and Benedict are very close in age
Julia: and they're both university.
Like they make reference to Anthony and Simon having been at university,
Melissa: they do reference that he has come from Eaton and that they should have, uh, they should have. Let him, they should have taken him out to more brothels after he was done with Eaton to sow his wild notes, because that's apparently how you deal with boys in this time period.
You just take them to process and let them practice
Julia: sex.
Melissa: But, so we've got like Penelope at Collin and poor Collin hasn't sewed his wild oats.
Cute.
Julia: And he'll, you can tell he loves her too, but the love is different because he comes to a rescue a couple of times, like, you know, in that party situations. And he like is always happy to see her and have conversation
Melissa: with her, which I love. I feel like there are those friends that, and I feel like everyone has had.
Friends in there. Like if you have a friend group and like, I feel like everyone's been in the situation where you have those two friends that are just like, they're just super friendly with each other and they get along real well. Right. And you all know that they have good chemistry and you all know that they're going to get together, but it's going to take them a really long time, long time.
And they're not, they're not too that you could be like, oh, cute. And like make fun of them. No, because then. Yeah, and like, never talk again. So you're just like, we're just talking. We're just going to let them handle
Julia: their own business. Let them handle that. Just let you know, Penelope stare longingly at Colin from her across the ballroom, as he talks to marina and other women books for his colon and Penelope.
I'm a purist. I reached it in order. And part of me feels like I want to like jump ship and just read the Penelope and call them book for that's the one that we
Melissa: really
Julia: want to know about what I really care about. Let's be honest. Um, just because in this season they go through so much. Oh my God. When lady Farrington finds out the truth about the situation, how devastating.
And as you mentioned, they're already probably living on a shoe string budget. And so then to find out that you can't even marry off your daughters because they have no dowry like that scandalous.
Melissa: I don't know if they ever referenced this in the show. I can't really remember if they say that this is their first or second season out.
I feel like
Julia: it's their second. I feel like the older girls. Yes, the younger daughter's first season. That's the impression I got. So like,
Melissa: Lady Farrington as real bitchy as she is because they make her character real unlikable. But I also think, you know, what? You get real unlikable when you're real stressed,
Julia: all that pressure, the rumors, everyone already knows that Lord Farrington is the type of human
Melissa: is.
And then, so like then you've got her and she's portrayed as like this really bitchy lady. Right?
Julia: You could, you can't have fun because you're in survival. Yeah, and
Melissa: I feel like that's really where she's at with it. And that's so hard. And so with this, she probably has been on this budget for a while.
Unknowing. Why? Because she was married to all Lord who should have money because Lords don't just have money. Like it's not just, it's not just, um, you know, family money that you're born into this Lordship. Like you're a Lord of a land. It's not just a title at this point in time. Yeah. You're essentially the governor of a bunch of property, right.
She in her mind, she's just like, we should have money. Like we should, like, I should be able to go and get my girls, their dresses, like maybe not the most expensive dresses. So it must've been really stressful to have this budget and not really understand why, but then like,
Julia: you know, it seems like she's just, she's just, okay.
Melissa: Is what it is. You know, whatever. And then she fricking finds out that it's all just gone. It's like the equivalent of him gambling away, like in this day and age, like a kid's university fund, like who does that? Who steals from their children? Aye.
Julia: Mind-blowing to me, like, I hear all these stories all the time about people who do like these really shitty things to their kids, like financially, before their children are even 18.
I don't understand it.
Melissa: Like how. Desperate. And how bad is your gambling addiction that you. Money from your children, like literally their livelihood and it's your daughters. It's their only way that they can make it in this life. You have gambled it all away.
Julia: And then like, what is the thought process, right?
Like what are you thinking that justifies this type of behavior? Cause you know, I, with food, I have a complicated relationship with food and I do this all the time where I'm just like, oh, you know what? I earned it today. Did it. I probably shouldn't eat that whole entire ream of thin mints after I've had already some candy today after I have had, you know, like all these things.
There's a part of me that I'm like, okay, I understand how there can be this sort of mind spiral and justification and bad behavior. But that only affects me. I'm not taking the money. I've been saving for his college for the last 17 years. And like,
to Las Vegas or doing all these things with it. Like, yes, it's my money that I've earned really hard, but it's in his account. So it's his money
Melissa: gamblers thing. Well, I lost it, but the loss is temporary. Habitual gambler are not good at
Julia: gambling. So in episode four, we finally see, um, Simon and Daphne fall into their.
Emotional desires kind of physically. Cause you know, Daphne is like they were at this party. I forget who hosted the. And they're just kind of like, she's just kinda like feeling overwhelmed. Cause the prince is getting ready to propose. So she's like, fuck this shit I'm out. Oh, I'll be right back. But she's polite about it, right?
Like, well, excuse me, I need some air and she wanders out into the garden and she's out there and she's like freaking out and she's feeling, you know, um, chokes by the necklace. The prince gives her and then she rips it off. And then there's Simon. I don't know about you, but I loved the garden scene. Damn it, it was sexy.
It was really good. And it
Melissa: showed like that throw
Julia: with passion. Yes. So for everyone listening, they have this very steamy, I guess, is you can use steamy when everyone's fully clothed, right? Like that's appropriate making out session. They just lean in, like at first he was like, oh, I'm sorry. I kissed you.
That's inappropriate. You're now like defiled with. If that's what qualifies as being defiled then ups and then, and then she's like, she's like, no, she's totally into it. And then like goes, and then they just like have this like deep, passionate handsy make-out session and Antony finds them, right? Yes. And like
Melissa: bus in.
So over the top and dramatic about it and like punches Simon in like the rose Daphne out of the way, and like punch Simon in the face and like knocks into the ground. And he's like, you've done filed my sister. You're gonna marry. Tomorrow or some shit like ridiculous timeline. It's just like all of a sudden you're getting married right now.
Julia: Yeah. Like over a make-out session. Because apparently now this means that she can't get proper marriage because they've just had this passionate make-out session, which damn 18, 13, like Anthony and Simon are banging all kinds of chicks. And then just one passionate kiss with a chase woman means that she's ruined forever.
Okay. Not
Melissa: only that, how. Make sense, someone, someone make it make sense. Give it to me, give it to me. All of it, because like I'm so confused. How does it make sense that Anthony has been how bent against this match? Hates the duke with his sister. Okay. Hates him. And then. Has done the worst thing, the worst thing that he could have possibly done to make him is defiled her.
And now, because he's done something so terrible, he gets to marry her. First of all,
Julia: while that kisses very passionate by today's standards. On the innocent side for grownups in my mind. Right? Like they didn't go very far because they got interrupted. Right. Or maybe it's not innocent. I don't know. The lines are blurred in my head because I, whatever.
Anyway, so then it, the only way to save her virtue, that's what it is. The only way to save her too, is that he married her. But like also, maybe guys just don't tell anybody, act like it didn't happen at this point. We think that you're the only three that. Right.
Melissa: And so at this point, wouldn't it make sense if you, if you really hate this guy so much, right.
And you'd like, you really don't want your sister to marry him and you see this happening. What did it make more sense to be? Like, if you tell anyone I will kill you. Yes. If you would mess up her prospects for this prince, I will kill you. Yes. Yeah. Problems. Yeah. Sure. Okay. What did that make more sense to just keep it hush and be like, get back to the castle until Daphne get back to the castle, go to the powder room.
Go fix yourself. Yeah. Yeah, versus you have, it's like, it's like he kissed her and like, she was.
Julia: Well, according to Eloise, she could be pregnant after that. So
Melissa: they
Julia: rightfully so then there's this huge fight between the whole unit, but then Daphne is rightfully angry with Anthony. At some point after the garden party, she says to him, you think just because I am a woman, I'm incapable of making my own choices.
So. Frustrates me about that. Cause you know, he's like, you can't like you, you can't make this decision for yourself, right? Like he's basically like you're not allowed to make this decision. We're making this decision for you, which even number one, fuck you too. Earlier in the episode. When he, before the ball, Anthony comes into the drawing room and he's like, I have good news.
The prince asked for your hand and she's like, well, what did you say? And he says, I know better than to answer for my sister because of all of the Lord Bert Brooke situation. So then to go from saying that to her about the prince proposal, to basically saying you have no say in what happens now that you own the print, you and the prints you and the duke have made out in the garden.
Like how come like pick a lane dude.
Melissa: Right. And like, I even put that in my notes, like just pick one, pick one, like, but also does he only say that because he's because Frederick has the
Julia: prince. Ooh, that's a good point.
Melissa: And like, you can't really tell the prince that you're not good enough to marry her sister, his sister, like you can't tell the prince that he's prince, he literally, that's really the only thing that he can say verse or like, yeah.
That's a great idea. You would, she would make a wonderful addition to your family. Like you're not gonna throw your sister under the bus. And so maybe he only said that to the prince because it's like, it's
Julia: yeah. Like honestly performative in a way to appease everybody. So then that way Daphne does feel like she has some autonomy, but really like, we all know, just say, yes, he has a cute little button guy that plays the prince.
Who's so cute.
Melissa: He looks very much like prince Frederick too. So that was really
Julia: after everything sort of implodes in the garden, they're like, we're going to duel. Don. So like, listen, when I think, which at the time it's outlawed by this point. Right. But when I think agency era and like pre pre, like America being established, I think of duels.
Like, I feel like that's so late 17 hundreds, early 18 hundreds. So it only seems even though it's illegal and it just felt very appropriate when duke is like, I am not marrying your sister or sorry. And Anthony is like, you can't dishonor her. And then they go back and forth. Dawn kind of shit.
Melissa: He made out with your sister in a garden. She didn't
Julia: assault her. No, he just like had got a little boob action. Like
Melissa: she enjoyed it and now we're dueling willingly. We're all willingly. And then not only, not only are we doing. He holds his pistol up to the sky to not like he's just going to die. Yes. He's going to die on this fucking hill.
And he's like, well, this is easier than not getting
Julia: married. I guess. Like,
Melissa: it's easier than keeping this Val that I've made to my dead father. I could just die in this dual and then,
Julia: which is just so weird to me because I'm like Simon, at this point, I'm feeling like you are unwilling to have a conversation with the woman.
About why you don't want to marry her. And, uh, and unwilling to explain to her the trauma, the pain, the trauma, knowing that she wants kids, whatever wants to be wife, all these things, but like you're so convicted to your moral or you're so committed to your morals to be like, yeah, that sounds. You know,
Melissa: like I'd rather be dead, dead, but like what morals are like, they're not even morals because like, if he was convicted to his morals, if he was dedicated to those, he would marry Daphne because he knows that that's screwing her
Julia: that's variation.
Right. So could we committed to his. Uh, oh, to his father of never giving, you know, dying the Hastings line, dying with him. God, that's so dramatic. She's like, I can't believe that you would die rather than marry me. And I told you have any regard for me. And she, and he's like, it's because I regard you so highly that I can't marry you.
For me, that's like such a fuck boy move because in the fuck, boy, you know, it's like, oh, I can't change. I refuse to change. I won't change. I'm unwilling to hear your side of it. I'm making my plea constantly. And then, you know, I just have too much respect for you. Like those are the guys who end up married to somebody else in a month.
Melissa: Awful. It's because I regard you so highly that I cannot marry
Julia: you. Then be honest, I think Daphne would be willing to hear it, but I think she's so like, she's so good at being a communicator when she doesn't understand something and she gets shut down. So often that I think in this situation, this was a really good opportunity for him to be like, look,
Melissa: this is what's happening.
Okay. Like, this is why this is the explanation. Like. Mary you. I really, really like you. I never thought I was going to really like a women, a woman like this, but I do, but I can't marry you. Like maybe they could have had a conversation about it, but no, that's too complicated because women can't handle anything because we're going to get
Julia: confused and right.
And men have to solve everything with violence and duals. So episode four ends with them shooting at each other and we hear the guns fly in. Daphne's come running in the middle of the, you know, at Dawn to try and stop them. So it's an episode five when he says that to her. So then we get into like,
Melissa: not smart running into the middle of a dual Daffy.
Like I, I understand you're worried. I understand that you're like real frantic, but like don't run in the middle
Julia: of gunfire. Jewel before he go, before they meet and dual Anthony goes to Sienna, remember, and he's like, you know, cause, so this is like for him, he's found his way out of being the bike count.
Cause if he, if he dies, then he's free. If he duals and doesn't die, then he can't come back. Cause now he's like an outlaw. And so he goes to Sienna and gives her this plea of like, we can finally be together and like, oh my God. And run away with me and all these things, it's going to be amazing and blah, blah, blah.
That's how we ended in season four with them. And she's just like, okay, I believe you, like, this is going to be great. And then he, even, he even. Benedict and says, you know, if something happens to me, here's the name of a woman. You have to take care of like wa while I'm dead. So you're like, okay, maybe he's finally got his shit together.
No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. He's never going to get his shit together. He'll get his shit together. And season two, I'm sure. Well, I
Melissa: hope, I hope that he doesn't. I hope that he just gets totally screwed over in season two. I want to watch these into, I want it to. Fuck Anthony. I want him to just get royally screwed over the whole time.
I want to see him have to marry someone that hates. I want her to like get pregnant with someone else's baby. Like I want all the, all the things to happen. Anthony. I want him to lose all of his fortune something, something had happened because he sucks.
Julia: Yes, but he's so hot. The actor is so hot on Instagram. I'm just like, thank you for all the thirst traps. Yeah. I might have to follow that.
isn't talking about words written so much. There's a lot of things that I'm most than I could have discussed and we didn't, but today's discussion was lively and spirited and fun. And, um, mom, very sorry, but also not. Sorry. So there's that next week we hit episodes five and six. Thanks for tuning in y'all.
We'll talk to you next time.
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