Bridgerton Pt. 1 | 16
Show Notes:
On this episode, Julia is joined by her friend Melissa. The two are talking the Netflix original Bridgerton and get down and dirty about the first two episodes.
Transcript:
Julia: Hello, gentle listener. Welcome to a very special edition of pop culture. Makes me jealous. I'm your host, Julia.
When Bridgerton exploded all over Netflix and the rest of the internet, we as humans accepted this eight part series with open and eager. And the winter months, I love escaping into British worlds that take place in an era. I cannot exist in my mild obsession with British royalty. You started at a young age, but I first saw picture of young prince William who isn't that much older than me.
And like some girls who grew up on fairytales and Disney princess movies, I dream. Quite often of falling in love with a prince and being swept away into far more glamorous life than the one I was doomed to live in the central valley of California. But deep down inside, I knew that wasn't a reality for a girl like me, a sort of brown child, ethnically ambiguous, even on my prettiest of days.
And then prince Harry and outs his undying love for Megan Markle and that they would be wed soon. And my heart, my princess dreaming, fairytale, loving childhood heart soared. You don't know this about me unless you actually know me, but I received my bachelor's degree in creative writing in 2015. And my master's in the same subject four years later in those classes, there was a heavy amount of reading and the constant praise of British authors storytellers held to the highest of standards that we as creative writing students should strive to.
Such impeccable storytelling technique. And after years of reading about British writers being the gold standard, I walked away with both of my degrees, determined to create a better syllabus for any student I may ever have. If I ever found a teaching job at a junior college or university, when the bridge written cast grace, my screen.
For the first time in my little girl, heart, I felt part of an era that often shows people who look like me in a negative lens over the next few weeks, my friend Melissa will be joining me as we dissect this show. I am so excited to bring this to your ears. In this episode, we focus on the events that happen in episodes one and two, but first, a quick message.
Hey, friends just wanted to pop in real quick and say. Are you on Instagram? Are you following us on Instagram? Find us at pop culture makes me jealous. That's where we have all of our conversations post. And we want you to be a part of it. We want to know. What do you think of the show? What'd you think of this week's episode?
Did you agree? Did you disagree? We won't know any of those things until you go over to Instagram, give us that follow and start having a conversation with us. We can't wait to talk to you there. Find us on Instagram at pop culture. Makes me jealous. Looking forward to talking with you. Okay. Friends. Here we go.
The show, Melissa. Hello, welcome to the show. I'm so happy. You're taught you're here today to talk with me about Richard. I'm so excited to talk about Richard Ted. Did you fall under the duke spell? Like the rest of the world did.
I kind of love that response though.
Melissa: I'm like, I have like moments of loving the duke. I have empathy
Julia: in episode one. We meet everybody for the first time, you know, it's the. Coming out season in London and everyone's sort of doing their presentations debuts to the queen. And so we start with the character start kind of falling into place. And we learned that the duke of Hastings, uh, Simon Bassett returns to London after being abroad or whatever.
And then we get introduced to the. We'll fill down pamphlet, the gossip sheet or whatever. And so we kind of, that's the introduction and we're watching everyone sort of prepare for, for all of that. I, I don't even know where to begin in which angle to take, because the concept of w top balls still exists, which weirds me out, but it take it into the context.
As you noted in our notes of 18, 13 being our starting point. So w
Melissa: so w tot season comes with that area with that. So like with that era we're in Regency time, period, you could tell because everyone's in a fricking empire wasted, everyone's looks kind of pregnant, but like, and please don't think that I've talking shit about that because like, I actually love Regency era.
I thought
Julia: that there, oh God, I just love everything. The costumes were incredible. Even the really gaudy ones
Melissa: that later
Julia: the feathering and why
Melissa: that's a thing. So the revolutionary war is already done, but they've already lost the Americans. Right. And king George is already way deep into his porphyria.
Right? He is. He is just not there. You have to remember that they had like 13
Julia: kids. Yeah. Yeah, I think 13, something like that. They only make a quick reference in a later episode to two of them. And when that reference happened, I know that's a different episode, but when that reference happened, I was like, there's more than that.
Like, why y'all acting like there's only two, like why anyway, but that's not the point that wasn't the point of the show.
Melissa: Um, I think that the reason that they did it that way is because when his porphyria got to that point and he did like, basically when he lost his mind, he, I think that that was a huge trigger for him.
Was he kind of went crazy when
Julia: his daughter died.
Melissa: Right. And that was a recurring thing that he just, he ended up. That was a very, that was a very true thing. He constantly asked her where Amelia was, but then you've got this debutante
season.
Julia: You know, meat market to marry off your eligible, uh, childbearing aged daughters into
Melissa: like this rabbit hole, right?
Of like what a debutante is.
Julia: It's the age of
Melissa: being of a meritable age. It's not the age that they are coming to season and like being, they have babies. Like they haven't been, they haven't, it's not just because you start menstruating, you go
Julia: into debutante season. So in the book, when we were talking offline, Uh, prepping for the show.
I pulled up the duke and I, which is the first book in the series. I borrowed it from the library, which I encourage people to borrow books from the library. It's only 12 hours on audio book. Cause it's like, I'm not going to have time to like, actually like put it on hold and read it. And so I only got through the first three chapters prior to this and.
Daphne. And the show is in her first season, debuting for the very first time Daphne in the book is going into her second season. So I thought that was an interesting change that they made and kind of a crucial one. If you really think about the concept of where the show goes by the end of. Eight. So I'm curious now I'm eager to finish the book to see how that makes a diff if any other like, major changes make a difference.
Yeah. I
Melissa: wonder why they chose to do that in the, in the show, because like that would actually make,
Julia: it could even be the Belle of the ball though. If she's the, you know, like the shining star, if it's her second season, the implication from movies that represent the sort of thing is if you go into a second season, you're not calling.
Melissa: They're like the Bruce dabble, but like, yeah. That's, uh, that's interesting. Like it would, so I guess it would make sense with the way that Anthony treats her and the way the Anthony's like, just trying to marry her off to
Julia: Berberich.
Melissa: He's so great. Super hate that guy. I hate a lot of people in this, by the way.
I'm just going to throw that out there. I'm here for that. Like, you're gonna, you're gonna hear me say that a lot of like, yeah, I hate that guy. So I guess
Julia: I'm here for it. So I feel like Lord bird Brook is like a unifying hatred, right? We all can stand him. We all don't want Daphne to end up with and he's liked about obvious villain.
So determined. And did you, I should have written it down. There was a line that he makes about how he's been. Like, he's like basically so excited now that she's of marrying age and how he's always been attracted to her. And she's basically like, oh, since, since I was a child, like. Yeah. Good for you, girl, call him out.
Like you've been looking
Melissa: at me since I was little, like that's so creepy and gross. And the thing, the worst part about that is that he legitimately thinks that that is a compliment dead ass.
Julia: Straight compliment.
Melissa: Like she should take that as like, oh, you have, you've been waiting for me this whole time.
Since I was little, you must really love me. He really thinks that that's the reaction that he is going to get.
Julia: And she's just like, fuck. We talked about like, you know, Def Daphne it's her first season in the, in the show. And the queen basically is like your, the pinnacle of beauty. Like you're the shining star.
You're the one, the best one, which the way that they do this makes me feel like it feels very much like a cattle call. Like this is the best one. Who's got $2 million to buy
Melissa: her. Okay. But not only that. Like I watched that particular scene a couple of times. Cause I'm just like, I feel like there's like a piece of information that they all have.
They're just like, Daphne's the Belle of the ball. Of course Daphne's developed the ball, of course. And I'm just like,
Julia: well, be like, she's pretty, she Ari, like, you know, I don't think she's the prettiest one personally, but also I came into the show a little prejudice because that actress plays Claire on this show called younger.
It's a TV land original. Now it's gone through. Network jumps, whatever. But the point is, is she plays Claire on the show. And I don't like that her character on that show. Like I can't stand her on that show. So when she shows up on this show and she's supposed to be this like chased, beautiful, the Belle of the ball, and I'm like, that's the bitch that hurt Nico.
I have to work to get past that. So I
Melissa: kind of have that same thing with Dean
Julia: from Gilmore girl. Oh my God. I don't like Dean. I think that he sucks. I think he's really
Melissa: crappy character. Like, so I refuse to watch that other show that he's in supernatural.
Julia: Sure.
Melissa: Whatever I like it. I don't see. I've never watched a single episode of it.
Not a scene. I've never watched a second of it. I don't like him that much as
Julia: Dean. It's funny how that kind of stuff like influences us in like how we consume, like somebody. Yes, I find it hilarious, but, and then, because she's doing an Irish accent on younger, which sounds terrible. So to go from hearing or using.
Mm, Irish accent to using her natural. So then I had, then I struggled with the way she said words like I'm so like there's certain things I'm just like, I just feel like, are you really British? I'm confused. I had a hard time getting into Daphne being the Belle of the ball based on her younger character.
I think that just with
Melissa: the, with her being the Belle of the ball, right. I think that it's just so. Strange this like criteria, what is it? Did she pick the right color that season? And that's like a serious question. Did she pick the correct color that season? Because at that time, like you notice most of these girls are wearing.
The same color
Julia: tones. Yes. Which is what makes the feathering tin. So fabulous. We can talk about that in a moment, but continue your thought. Right.
Melissa: But like, so they all have to kind of pick their bolt of fabric, right. They pick their specific color and then all of their dresses are made from this color wept, which is gorgeous.
And it's such a cool concept of, because then, you know what family is, which that was an easy way for them to know. Who's from what family? Oh, well, this family has these colors this
Julia: year, right? And the daughters are
Melissa: really X, Y, and Z colors this year, feathering Titans, because they're in so many different colors that
Julia: shows two bright, bold
Melissa: colors that.
We're cheap. Like they're wearing out of date, out of season clothing. They're probably wearing clothing that is fitted for them and not test them and not custom made. And based on the fact that they are able to wear so many different colors throughout the season is actually like a negative thing on that.
Like, because it shows like you didn't pick a
Julia: color this season, right? Yeah. There's a reference in a later episode when Madam. CWA com. Yeah. And so one of the daughters like holds up the dress. She's like, oh, this needs to be sized down or like adjusted for me. And I just thought that's really interesting.
And that's really interesting because we never see them in the shop getting like no fitted. We always see them in the shop today. To the , you know what I mean? Like we don't see them on the little pedestal, the way that we do with the Verger 10
Melissa: girls and they're doing it. That's a very purposeful thing that they're showing us that like, huh, they're in this world kind of,
Julia: kind of, they're trying real hard.
The other thing that in the first three chapters of the book that you learn is that Mr. Uh, Lord feathering. He was already dead in the book. They referenced him in. I think the third chapter, when lady Farrington says he's been dead already for three years and there's a fourth sister and her name doesn't start with a P.
It was like, what, what am I doing? Why am I listening to this right now? Why should I be a TV show purist at this with
Melissa: why doesn't her name? Start with a Pete that appeared.
Julia: Yeah. Did they not like that one? I don't know, back to the feathering ringtone. So when we sort of first meet them and their family, Penelope is breeding and lady feathering, tin says to her Penelope put down that book at once.
You'll spoil your thoughts. It's just like, oh my God, I
Melissa: love phrases like that. I love them because like, you really have to dissect the right. I mean, we'll spoil your thoughts, like spoil them
Julia: with, I don't know, can you no longer manipulate me into believing whatever you want me to believe? If I'm thinking for myself
Melissa: pretty much, like that's exactly what that means.
And you're just like, huh?
Julia: Yeah, it feels lucky. That's why I love her relationship with Eloise. So Eloise is the second sister. But she's number five in the line of the eight bridge written children. And so that's what I think makes her relationship Eloise in Penelope, his relationship kind of special because Penelope kind of wants.
Have the freedom that Eloise has, the Eloise is very much like she, you could see it in her face. She's like panicked about how she has to debut and like, she doesn't want to do any of those things. Oh, I
Melissa: want to stay here and read my books and I want to go to university and I want to be awesome. Okay. In the book though, have you read anything about.
The other sister
Julia: Francesca? No, I haven't made it that far yet. So I'm at the point where they are at the street first. Yeah. Like she, I told her, cause I totally forgot about her until the end when they're like, oh, Francesca aunt Winnie has written, Francesca is coming home and I'm like, oh yeah, there was a friend Jessica,
Melissa: because there's an, it would be weird if there was.
Julia: Yeah. So for anybody listening, the Bridgeton siblings, there's eight of them in there named in alphabetical order. So Anthony is the oldest boy than Benedict than Colin, then Daphne and Eloise, Francesca Gregory and hyacinth, which are that name. So much, it's so extra, the whole concept around Daphne being, you know, of marriageable age and trying to get her married off.
And Antony's just blood dedication to making that happen. But then with her two older brothers, and I think I noted this a couple of times in our notes, two older brothers who were deemed too young to get married, but Daphne's totally. Age appropriate to get married. Every time that came up, I was just like, fuck this shit.
Come on. No, Colin can totally get married. The young come on. If Daphne can get married, Colin can get married.
Melissa: Part. Part of it is that during this time period,
Julia: women would usually die during childbirth. So like the
Melissa: idea was you marry off earlier as a female. Probably gonna die. The younger you have your children, the less likely are you, you are going to die yet in that time period.
Like while it's, it's bullshit that they are not of marital age and she is a meritable age. In retrospect, it does kind of make sense because the longer and longer it takes for them to get pregnant and local, the longer and longer it takes for her to get pregnant. Like it's, it just increases her chances of like basically
Julia: hemorrhaging and dying.
I forget which episode it was, but we see that in the episode where we learn about more about the duke of Hastings and. Yeah, his existence coming in to the world and just the way that his, um, that whole situation with his mom, which is very sad. I know like the vine count, the older brother, Anthony being the head of the household because you know, his father is no longer with us.
Gosh, that's gotta be hard. Cause you have seven younger siblings that your mother is still technically,
Melissa: I guess. Uh, and his mother, he also has his mother to now care to now be in charge of.
Julia: Yes. And so just kind of unpacking. Anthony. Cause we first meet him. He is totally having sex with some chick. We don't know who she is yet.
We meet him having sex against the tree. He's running late for whatever they get ball or
Melissa: whatever. So I'm not even going to lie when that happened. I was like, oh my God. I was so taken aback by that whole thing. I'm like, okay, well, well then
Julia: I'd be in that place. That's one way to do it. And I guess, I
Melissa: suppose that seemed really uncomfortable to me.
Like I definitely would not want to treat in my.
Julia: Yeah. And you're so out in the open, right? Like,
Melissa: oh my God, that Coachman does steady there and he is just due to
Julia: do,
Melissa: please hurry up. Oh my God, this guy, I can't believe that we're doing this again. You can tell that this was not his first rodeo.
Julia: The first time that this happened.
Melissa: Again, I hate, I really, really dislike him so much as like a character. So I hate him as a brother. He's got bad brother. He's like all over the place and he totally tries to, I don't understand his reasoning for making this a match. It literally
Julia: makes no. Yeah. Yeah. He talks about cause you know, the conversation that he and his mom have about like your, cause I thought it was really interesting how she's like, you want to be the head of the household, but you're not really being the head of the household.
Like your father would be doing what he needed to do to get an appropriate match for Daphne. But then somehow he can't interpret that correctly. So he finds like, The actual biggest douchebag in all of London too, like, well, he's not seen going in and out of brothels and he doesn't have any debts. And like all these things that you would think are like good on paper, um, which they are good on paper.
But in reality, like the reason why he's not seen coming out of brothels is because Lord Burbrick is disgusting and probably not even a prostitute would have sex with him, or he's
Melissa: gotten, he's probably gotten.
Julia: Kicked out of the bubble kicked out. That's probably more likely, right? Like his behavior was so atrocious cause he does
Melissa: things like don't get it twisted that brothels were just a place for men to go and do whatever they wanted in women.
Those women were taken care of by the amount of that ran that brothel. So if you did something that was. Shameful to those women or hurt them in some way. You're not
Julia: right. Which is totally believable for his character to be somebody to get removed because as we meet him and learn more about him through the episodes that he is in, you see him displaying just really ghastly behavior towards Daphne.
And it's just like douche. With Anthony being like, he's like grasping at straws. He doesn't know what he's doing. I got the sense that dad maybe died, said Lee, I don't know. Cause I'm not the, at that part in the book. And they never really addressed it in the show. You know, the way that the girls are groomed to be these debutantes and then good wives.
And what have you, I didn't get the sense that the same happened for Anthony becoming vice account. Well,
Melissa: I think that pretty, that's pretty evident to all, uh, These younger men that we see the vibe, even the duke, the duke was groomed. Technically yes, be well-educated. And he
Julia: was he,
Melissa: like I said, well educated and he was very, he was very well-educated socially and academically, but he stayed far away.
Or at least at the show, he stayed far away from the Hastings household. He did not really realize the depth of the job until he became the duke. And until they're married and way into the, um, like, you know, way later on in the season, And so it kind of seems like, and that's referenced over and over and over again, how the girls are.
Roomed to know their place in society and know that their only job really is to get married and have babies. And that's the only thing that makes them worth anything in this society. And then you have the men they are encouraged to like, so their oats, so their wild oats so that they can be good husbands.
And it is encouraged for them to do all of their wild partnering, partying, and get all of that out of their system as a young man, because women aren't allowed to have that they don't have to do, they have to be demure. They can't do like wild partying and doing all of these things. You get that freedom when you are married.
Right. Kara, which is so
Julia: interesting because you could be so easily ruined if you even, you know, Innocent kiss with somebody or not with somebody there's not a lot of innocent
Melissa: kissing in the show. I'm going to
Julia: throw that out there. Nope. Whoever the intimacy coordinator was like good job.
Melissa: There was a, some definite coordination.
Julia: Very believable. Nice work guys. Good job. Sorry, mom. I know you're listening. Please. Don't watch for certain, we will work for me. You have no idea what it's like to be a woman to have one's entire life be reduced to a single moment. This is all I have been raised for. This is all I am. I have no other value.
If I am unable to find a husband, I will be worthless. That statement is so heartbreaking because there are women today who still believe that
concept.
Melissa: It just proves once again, like just how much of a company. Dick her brother is. And like, why? Like, why is he almost hell-bent on. Ruining her, like he knows that that's a bad match.
I don't care what he's saying. You can tell when he's talking about it, that he's like almost trying to convince himself. Yes. He doesn't believe that this is a good match. He's like 25 years older than Daphne. What? 45. Okay. I'm here with this guy and her mother is just like, so. That would be so terrifying as a mom because you know that he's supposed to be taking care of this.
And he's like, he's the head of the household. You have no control. Even as the mother, you have no control. All of the control has been given to your fricking dumb son to screw people against trees.
Julia: I agree with you because that particular couple has a scene later in, I think episode one that is actually very intimate and beautiful and vulnerable.
And I was like, now this is a beautiful scene, like post coitus. And so that contrast really struck me because I felt like that contrast showed like his conflict internally about that character. Whose name is Sienna back to the, you know, lady Burton to your point, you know, watching. Dumb ass son make a terrible decision for your daughter.
When you basically bred your daughter to be this beautiful person or whatever, and then also emphasizing a love match. And then also you're relegated to being like nothing because your husband. We clearly get the sense that you guys were a partnership and valued each other is no longer with you. So now you have to be put in a position.
Yeah. Like you're put in a position where like your son's in charge now. Like, fuck that
Melissa: pretty much. Like I, no, no, thank you.
Julia: You know, I've really felt for her having your time. The V count tests being cut short that had to have been hard. I think
Melissa: that it's just, it's kind of degrading at the same time, like to, to have to give up your control to your son, you know, is not doing the right thing in his own life who you know, is not taking his own role seriously.
And now all of a sudden. Seasoned time. And it's her oldest daughter having to go through her in this case, in the show. It's her first season.
Julia: Like
Melissa: that would be really difficult, especially after getting coined as the Belle of the ball. And then like she thinks that she has such a high chance to get someone wonderful in high rank, not only high ranking, but someone that she can have a good relationship.
Yeah, down the line, like a potential good relationship. And then she's got herself. Fucking it
Julia: up just wailing in the worst way. It's sad too, because you're watching these couples who clearly like the feathering tens, clearly aren't in love. And then you hear all of these loving moments between violet and her husband.
When you have parents who are a love match, like that's easy to fall into. Like, I would want a love match if my parents were loved match, but when your parents are not happy, you know, it's. Right. And it's random
Melissa: and it's not some random person making this match. Like if it was like, if it was like in different cultures, you know, where you have matchmakers that are coming from outside of your family, that didn't know that your parents were in love match.
They don't know these things about you that intimately. Right. It would make more sense that like, well, here's your match. Like wherever you're going to learn how to love this. That's how it works, but this isn't the case here. He knows that his parents were in, well, he knows this information to me. He's being a big petty man-child yes.
He doesn't want his sister to marry any of his friends. Right.
Julia: Because he knows everything about his friends and they're not good enough. Like maybe, maybe
Melissa: don't be that guy he doesn't, or he doesn't want his friends to spell out information
Julia: about him. Oh, I never thought about that. That's a fair point.
Cause you're, you're not, you know what? Cause he thinks that nobody knows about him and Sienna and everybody knows about him and Sienna.
Melissa: All of his boy, no about him in Sienna. So if she marries one of his, one of his friends, what's going to stop them from telling her. And then what's going to stop her from telling her mom or confronting him and calling him out.
And then all of his fun is all over. Cause he's fucking an opera singer. Yeah. Who, I
Julia: just, I didn't need all of her sex faces. Like that was just not good. She's not an unattractive person, but her sex faces were just real uncomfortable for me.
Melissa: Just aren't that great though. So I kind of appreciated having that.
It normalizes that like sometimes sex isn't that sexy looking.
Julia: Sometimes it just is what it is sometimes against. I do love that by the end of episode one. Oh, that's the other thing about the book lady, Dan Barry, you know, in the show, they give us this perception, that lady Dan Barry had a lot to do with the duke of Hastings upbringing and his education and all this stuff.
But. She, yes. He references her as being like an important person in his life, but all of those key marker things that we see happen in the show with the confrontations of his dad, that wasn't lady Danberry instigating those, it was his nurse or whatever the it's, you know, the person who's raising him. So I guess technically at the time it's referred to as a nurse, but she did.
Medical, right. It's like his governess. Yeah, but they call it, you know, like the color a nurse. Cause he's so little. I don't know, but I love how lady Dan Danberry and lady violet are like, you know what we should do. We should encourage this love man makes this happen. Cause you know, violence like. Yes exactly.
It's a while it's like we have to stop my son from being from ruining everything and lady Danbury's like, you know, the equivalent of a nephew, my nephew. An idiot. Let's fix this,
Melissa: let's fix this because they obviously like each other, like, it's so interesting because like neither of the parties, like on male or female side at this point in time, how can they really know when they like each other?
Haven't been
Julia: taught these things?
Melissa: Women are just taught to sit and be,
Julia: yeah, they referenced, you know, oh, she's an ex, um, an accomplished middle worker or whatever they call it. Right.
Melissa: Her needle work is exquisite and accomplished or she's a pianist or she sings or she plays the flute or she does. She's a little bird that does tricks for you.
That's what was a good woman? But in that sense, how, like, how do you know when you like someone, if that's all that you're taught to do, perform these tricks
Julia: and like just exist, which makes kind of the introduction that the crash and the crash meet cute that the duke and Daphne have so much fun because she genuinely has no idea who he is and he's.
You don't know who I am, first of all, that's okay. Douche, but like at the same time, but he's coming into this as like, literally he's been swarmed by moms who are like meet my daughter and she's an accomplished media. Stitcher
Melissa: worker.
Julia: He's just like, okay, whatever, I don't care. Yeah. And then here's staff and he was like, quickly tell me your name.
And he's like, you don't know who I am like. Wow. Um, man, I actually really loved that scene. I thought it was really adorable. Yeah, I did too. Cause she wasn't afraid. Yeah. She was just like help
Melissa: and like, but it's also, it's also like a very true being that like I think even that still happens now, like yadda party.
So we're guys following
Julia: you and
Melissa: you see. Looking guys that you are getting like a good vibe off of
Julia: and you just go up to him and he was like, help me. Yeah. Or you say something like, oh, you know, my boyfriend's on his way to pick me up. Like somehow we have to throw in a man, even if he's not real in our lives to sort of be our savior because our word isn't enough.
Melissa: And even lady violet, um, says, remember that like the Lord might not take your notes.
Julia: Seriously,
Melissa: but he will take the word of another man. Right? So therefore she has to fight. She has to make it work with the duke of Hastings. She's not going to have a choice, but to marry this guy, right. Total
Julia: crap. It really is.
It's so upsetting. So at the end of episode one, this plan is concocted from Leni Danberry and, um, lady Porter tend to sort of match, bring, uh, Daphne and the duke together. And then, but then, then Daphne and the duke sort of come up with a similar plan. Like let's pretend we're dating. So that way we can sort of elevate the vulgar mommy, the vulnerable.
Mama's we'll leave you alone. And then like, my position will be elevated because now the duke is interested.
Melissa: Right, right. Like it's such a cockamamie scheme, right? Yes. But also, like, it just shows
Julia: like that this whole thing is just a game yeah.
Melissa: Game and they all just have to play these days. But the worst part about this game is that everyone's playing by different freaking rules.
I'm like this same board. And you're like, what's even happening here. Right. Does anyone even know what we're playing? Does anyone even, does anyone even know what the end game is? Well, the end game is to get
Julia: married, but like, by any means necessary apparently.
Melissa: And any means necessary.
Julia: We get this done. Yeah.
That's the only rule that's consistent from every family by any means necessary. This is going to help it
Melissa: well, because they can only get. What's in the season, right? So like, yeah, of course there's all this pressure because they have to get married in this
Julia: certain time period. So in episode two, we now see Simon and Daphne sort of like in the throws of their like fake courtship, but we know it's fake.
The rest of the world doesn't know it's fake. And then Anthony, the big brother is very upset by this new. 'cause I guess we should have said, we should have said earlier that the duke has made it very clear that he plans to never get married. And that's a direct result of his poor relationship with his father.
Like he does not have a positive relationship with his father, so you can draw the line there he's like that guy. I don't want to be a dad.
Melissa: It's not only that he doesn't want to be a dad. I think that he would like to be a dad. It's just that being a dad means that he's continuing his family line and that is something that his dad wanted.
Yeah. And he doesn't want to get his dad anything, but he wants, we learned that in the second
Julia: episode. Or do we learn that later? I can't remember.
Melissa: I think that we learned a little bit of that
Julia: in like every episode gives us a little nugget, right. It gives us a little bit because
Melissa: everything goes out of order, which is.
Julia: Yeah, we get everything in the book, the first chapter, that's all, it's all, Simon's horrific upbringing and you know, the death of his mother and just the crap that his dad puts him through. Like that's how the book opened. And I was like, oh, okay. So we're just diving in and just diving
Melissa: right into that.
Okay. Well, I'm going to have to read the book before the next season comes out. Cause I would really like to get a better.
Julia: Uh, cause, you know? Yeah. Cause I didn't feel, I guess I didn't realize they were books, but then why would I, when I went to go check it out of the library, it was in like the romance section, which isn't my.
Not my genre. Yeah. It's not my choice. You know, the show releases and everyone's like, oh, these things. And then everyone's like the book versus the movie and oh yeah, I guess it is a book series. I should look into this more because now, because you know, when everyone lost their shit, that the Duke's not coming back, I was like, well, let's look at the books and see what the deal is.
And each of the eight books in the series is for one of the eight children. So not knowing the behind the scenes. Drama stuff about him. I'm thinking, oh, he's probably going to be less prominent because the next book is about Antony and his search for a match. And then, and then you enlightened me about him having a little bit of a fit about not being so prominent the second season I thought, oh, that's interesting.
But I think it's in this episode that we get the view of the duke of hasty of his mom's Simon's. Going into childbirth, delivering the baby. And it's just, it's kind of a horrific scene. I mean, if you're sensitive to maternal deaths on, on screen, you know, it's definitely like a content warning situation because they do really get into it and the loss of blood that she experiences.
And then the, just, again, back to that cattle mentality, the dads just like, you need to tell me now, do I have a boy or not? And you're just like, they just got the shoulders out, like calm down.
Melissa: Right. Like, you need to chill for one. And then like also, like, there was just no maternal medicine at this time and they treat her like
Julia: a cow pushing out a calf he's so belligerent who knows.
I would like to think that if he was drunk, then that at least kind of not excuses his behavior, but cause if you're a sober person behaving that way during a childbirth, like, fuck, you know, He was so he's so demanding during the whole thing, you know, and he's the. As you highlighted, you know, this blatant disregard for, um, women's health and just women in general, during childbirth.
And it was just so upsetting to watch, not just because of the extent of how awful he was, but also because that kind of shit still happens today or not. I don't know what the actual statistics are behind it, but I do know. Black maternal health is not great. And you know, the U S isn't exactly at the top of their game.
We're like number three in the world for maternal deaths, which is mind blowing to me because we're such a developed country. And we have quote, the best medical system that this should not be happening in the way that it's still happening. No, it
Melissa: really shouldn't just the maternal mortality rate for women in the United States is, um, it's 18.5 maternal deaths per every hundred
Julia: thousand lives.
That's a lot. That's high,
Melissa: that's really real high guys. Um, and then if we add in the statistic for people of color for black women alone, it is 37 deaths
Julia: per hundred thousand. April 11 through April 17th. This is black maternal health week. And a lot of public health agencies will do education and awareness for black maternal health.
And then like one of the days in that week is like specifically like black maternal health day. Maternal. As a whole, we need to do better, but especially for our communities of color, the
Melissa: fact is, is that women of color darted off being manhandled in obstetrics, died in obstetrics and died for obstetrics.
And there's a reason that they're still dying at a higher rate. And it's because of the way that,
Julia: and I think that if there's such a push for us to have children and to be mothers, then we need to be able to trust the system that is going to help us deliver said child, because if you're going into it believing one thing.
And then coming out of it, not alive. That's a huge problem. Kind of a
Melissa: perfect segue though, into your next point
Julia: into Eloise asking. Yes.
Melissa: How one becomes.
Julia: Yes. Like, oh man, at first I'm just heartbroken that this is not a conversation that girls and women. Talked to about, and even now to this day, we still have like a weird, awkward relationship with being able to talk with young girls and women about how this happens
to be. Yes. Yes. Penelope is family. The feathering tins have this distant cousin that comes and stays with them for the season. And lady Farrington realizes that her courses haven't come so clearly that means she's with child. So they're availing it as she's unwell. So Penelope and LOE is their friendship and LP open, but doesn't say that it's marina, she says that it's somebody in the house.
So then it's the made the main. So then like Eloise is like, but how does one become with child if they're not married? Because up until, I don't know, 20 years ago, we still believed that you could only get pregnant if you're married and
Melissa: like, please let's, let's just dive into that just a little bit. And they, with.
That until the day you took your vows of marriage to your husband, you physically could not become pregnant. It is a, it is actually a condition that happens with pregnant with marriage. They know that it's in their body. They know that they're the ones that grow the baby because they know about their.
Julia: Right because you don't know you. No. One's talking to you about the honeymoon. No, one's talking to you about your body. And so when Eloise bursts out in the drawing room and says, how does one become pregnant? If one's not married? And like, violence is like more Eloise is absolutely terrified
Melissa: and God is going to magically become pregnant.
Like some man is going to like, look at her wrong more than. Hello, magic fairy dust on her. She is going to have a baby in her stomach and she's like, how the fuck does this happen? I need to make sure that this doesn't happen to
Julia: me. Yes. And so, and so Anthony violet. Benedict, even calling, they all know, they all clearly know how this works and everyone's just like, um, and the boys
Melissa: snicker about it, the voice snicker about the whole thing.
And it's so irritating to me because like, they could just tell her they're her brothers. Like they don't have to tell her right there in the drawing room. They could like pull her aside and be like, okay,
Julia: Especially because Eloise and Benedict have clearly a special relationship and we see them in their own scenes together being very vulnerable about expectations in the type of family that they are and just, I love it too.
And so, you know, so that's the part where I'm just like, this is kind of heartbreaking because you can be really close to somebody in your family, but yet there's still going to be a level of mistrust. Yeah.
Melissa: Because you know that they're not telling you really important information that is important information and that, like, I can only imagine how
terrifying
Julia: and that would be Eloise already.
Doesn't want to be in the Marin. She already is having a hard time with that. We've learned that she's asked violet to delay her a year from being presented violet degrees. So to already be sort of scared of that whole marriage concept, because that there's a lot there. And then to think about. You can, you can become pregnant without being married.
Like
Melissa: what you can, like, I can do all of these things and I can not get presented and I can not get married and I can do all these things that I in my head I want to do and start all of these things that I want to do, and I can still end up pregnant. And then if I end up pregnant without a, without
Julia: a husband, Ruined forever.
Right? Terrifying. I think Eloise is my favorite character on the show. She's definitely up there in mine.
Melissa: I really love her a lot. I really love lady Dan, very too
Julia: takes. Shit like it's so great. I think we still have, Lord Burke is an issue in CS. In episode two, we have that whole issue of answering. You're not really fully considering the arrangement with Bart, Brooke, and like you, to your point, he knows that this guy's not a great person and he sort of makes references in the early part of episode one.
But then for some reason, by episode two, he's forgotten all of the things that he hates about him and moves forward, which is
Melissa: stupid. Let's just start grasping at straws.
Julia: Yeah. But I do love that. Like, violet kind of always calls out Daphne and she's like, I can see that you're in love. And like, she's just like, you guys are in love about her assignment.
Like you guys are totally in love and in Daphne's just feels so guilty because she's like pretending and faking. And you're like, are you though?
Melissa: But like, and then that's such it, but it's such a true thing that people say. People still do that. Like, it's still a thing. People don't ever want
Julia: to catch feelings as now.
Like
Melissa: no one ever wants to admit that to the other person, because you would submit it to the other person then that it's real. And that you have that. You have the pressure semi obligation by social standards to like be together.
Julia: Yeah. And in a co in a current cultural context, it's, you're being vulnerable to like, if we reference it as today, you're being vulnerable.
And then what if they don't reciprocate? And you're just like, shit, I put myself out there and they don't reciprocate. That's horrifying. Nobody wants to get hurt.
Melissa: I know. Is that like a big thing a while back? Because I remember. I've always been like just a really forward person. I was like, I'll tell you if I like you.
I
Julia: don't care if you say that you don't like me, like, oh, I think for me, I am similar to you in the sense of like, if I, like, you you'll know if I don't you'll know, but there's maybe been one or two. People guys I've dated where I was like, oh, this I'm like totally vulnerable and falling, and this is not okay.
And I don't like it cause I don't know where you stand and both of those ended badly. So,
so now I'm like, 37. And I'm just over here, like I'm ready to like catch feelings, but you're ready for the feeling. Yeah. But also like, I'm just, I feel like I'm too old to get hurt. So let's like, let's make this work. People like I've had enough hurt in the last 17 years. Can we just like, bring a good
Melissa: one and like you don't want, and someone to end up acting like Simon the total fuck boy in this situation.
Yeah. He totally likes her. She totally likes him. She'd jumped. He liked her. He liked her because he, she didn't know who he
Julia: was. Yes. And he, and she just like, could have a real conversation with them and he wasn't, she wasn't like faking spooning to get his attention. The swooning. I love, I love the sorting.
I think it's so funny. I don't want a spooning couch for my house, so I can just, you know what, I want to get out of a conversation.
Melissa: I like, I actually liked the duke of Hastings. I liked him more than the bike count because the bike count is just a Dick because he's selfish and narcissistic and wants to do what he wants to do.
The duke has a very obvious childhood trauma. Yes. Yeah. Like he's not processed
Julia: one. He's not allowed to process. He has to go to the best even to the state men. Can't aren't we do not value men being vulnerable. Sorry to cut you off. I apologize in the book when they're at the ball and all of the women are like, oh, it's so nice to meet you.
I was, my husband was a dear friend of your husband's. You know, Simon would just bristle because nobody understands that he went through hell and back because of his dad. He doesn't want to be in society. He doesn't want to do the season. He hates it because his father was so awful to him. We see that in show.
I think they play it down a little bit, actually comparatively to the book. It
feels
Melissa: like to me, they try to condense it so that like, we just get all of the information and then it's just like done. We just understand where he's
Julia: coming from. And yeah. Yes, because his, like you say, his childhood trauma, he's trying, he can't, it hasn't processed that he, he's not allowed to process it.
And even the little bits he gives to Antony, which isn't much.
Melissa: Right. And I think that like an event and like talking about it now, it makes sense why Anthony would be so against her being with the duke because. For Anthony, he doesn't want to get married because he wants to sow his wild oats and he wants to be a party boy.
And he wants to do all of these things that he knows are not right. He's doing all of these things that he knows he shouldn't be doing. Right. He wants to be a party. Boy. He wants to be a party boy, and he doesn't want to get married. So you've got. The duke saying he doesn't want to get married. And I'm sure that Anthony is just like, well, it's the same reason he sees him going and traveling and going to brothels and having all of these women's.
So he just assumes that he's a bad guy like him, but in my opinion, I don't really think that that's true.
Julia: He's coping with this. But
Melissa: even though he's not necessarily a bad guy, we see in this with Lord Burbrick and the Dukes confrontation, and they're both, they're both fucking comparing the women, two horses, both doing it.
Like he's still, even though he's not a terrible guy, he does have Daphne's best interests at heart in this. As much as he can, but systemically that's still in that.
Julia: Right. Because that's basically what they've been bred to understand or raise to understand is that this is, you know, this is just an, um, an ornament to your life.
And Lord kind of makes that sort of reference about Daphne all the time. It it's, I'm going to be the one who has the diamond of the season. And you're just like, because she's just this
Melissa: trophy. That he wants to have on his arm. I can be. And then like, to top it all off, like, so then they have this big fucking
Julia: fight.
Oh my God. When he like, just be like the duke of Hastings, just beats the shit out of him. I was just like, it
Melissa: was really was, and I'm a pacifist. So I just like, was like,
Julia: God put that man in his place. Gross human. He really is.
Melissa: And like, I, I'm not a pacifist. This is a great fight scene because he really does just lay into him.
Right. And then like on top of that, so he gets his ass just completely handed, handed, handed to him, then he tries to fix it. So he goes to the court system special. I got a special. He got a special license to marry this person without their permission. In three days in three days, what is the, what is this special license?
The lack
Julia: of consent that women are allowed to have, right? Like it's, she has no choice. And to me is like angry as all. Hell like you did what? Like. Which, you know, his role in this whole situation is very clear. He's enabled it, but then I love how indignant he is when the Viking, when Lord Barbara comes in is like, I have a special license and then we can get married in three days.
And I expect to be married to her in three days. And, and Anthony is just like, you, he puts even murder on his face. Like he's going to murder this guy. And part of
Melissa: it is. He knows that he messed up. And I don't know if anyone else was confused by this, on like, okay. He went to the court and he got, especially like, what the fuck even is this?
I think that this is what happened. I think that he cited that. Inappropriately touched her. And I think that he could go to the court and plead it. If anyone has any information on this, please let us know because it would be really interesting. But this is my understanding of it. If he went to the court and said, I already kissed her, she's already mine.
Julia: She has no left.
Melissa: She has no virtue left. We were in the throws of passion. Wasn't assault. If we were in the throws of passion, we love each other. So. And he could go to the court and say, well, I love her so much. And I've already been. Done this right. And her and her parents are not giving permission. Her family's not giving permission.
I need permission from the court. And then the court would give permission.
Julia: Yeah, that's interesting too, because of the way of the protocol, right? There's this protocol in place on, you have to apply for a license. You have to, it has to run so many times in the paper. You have to wait 30 days. There's like all these little markers, right.
That like exists throughout history. If anyone has any information on that. Yeah. Where's our, where's our marriage history. Yeah,
Melissa: we need, we need help. Yeah.
Julia: without any digging, the surface of fairytales and princess movies is that marriages feel like a love batch and all Daphne. Is a love match. And I feel that so deeply. If you have a watch Burton yet, what are you waiting for next week? You guessed, right? We'll be talking about episodes three and four.
Can't wait to talk to you next time. Y'all have a good week.
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