Younger Part 2 | 15
Show Notes:
Christina and Julia discuss the love and relationships in Younger. If you haven't seen the final episode then be prepared for spoilers!
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends. Welcome to pop culture makes me jealous. I'm your host Juliet. And on this week's episode, Christina and I are talking younger.
We talked to younger last week, but we mostly talked about the women on the show. This week's episode, we're going to be talking about all the relationships. And now here we go to the show,
Christina, first of all, did you watch the final episode? So
Christina: I did, but I didn't give it my a hundred percent attention. It was like, I know
Julia: no, it's okay. You have a lot happening in your life. I do, but like, I'm not happy with it really. Yeah, I kind of love the full circle that they did. Okay. Let's preface this first by saying hello friends.
This will have spoilers. So if you haven't seen the final episode, you've been warned. Good point. We got to get that out of the way. Okay, go ahead. No,
Christina: I, I love, I, I always love a good full circle moment. Don't get me wrong. I just feel like, and maybe it's because I feel like every show does this, but like, I feel like they try to wrap so much up in one episode at the end and it's not a whole, like, it doesn't give me the whole, like picture of what I need moving forward for it to be the end.
If
Julia: that makes sense. It makes sense. Like the whole time I was like, we last saw Diana trout in Italy, on her honeymoon. Yeah. Where is she? Where are you dying? Well, we see her for the finale. Exactly. Cause you deserve just as much screen time in the finale as all these other characters, because she's a huge part of the show.
I know, plus she's like the,
Christina: she's the character that you never wanted to like, but you ended up loving and so you can't not have her in the last episode. Like.
Julia: I want to know if that was our Herge
Christina: voice, like as an actress thing, or if that was something like with the show that like just kind of got bamboozled,
Julia: oh, maybe they ha she had a scheduling conflict.
Cause everything got derailed because of COVID like so much stuff got derailed because of COVID just in general for video TV, television and film production. So I wonder if they also got affected. Well, obviously they got affected by that everybody.
Christina: No, they didn't not that Julie,
Julia: Darren Star's productions never get affected by anything bad.
That's why everything in
Christina: his universe is, are so perfect.
Julia: Right. I wonder if he's going to be involved in, um, the fuck is the spinoff show for sex in the city called? I can't remember some has happened in. Oh, it's just like that. That's what it's called. They're filming. Now there, they had tape. You said it had happened.
I know. Well, cause I'm thinking of all the things that she's known for saying insects in the city, like, and just like, that is one of them. And then, and I can't help, but wonder is another one. So I don't know why I thought happens was within, uh, in just like that it happens. I don't know. Maybe that's where my brain rent we got there.
Okay. But let's talk about the love and romance of younger because you have this very big question, which is, do you think Liza is different based on who she's with which boyfriend and then the sub question is which boyfriend do you prefer? So that is your question. So I need your answer.
Christina: I know that I asked that when we were doing part one and
Julia: I'm like, wow, I asked that question.
It isn't good question. It's a great lead off maze myself. I think
Christina: that, okay. So I honestly think that Liza is the person that she thinks she supposed to be. When she's with Charles, she thinks that, or the person that society has been telling her all these years she should be, or would fall into or be good with.
I feel like Josh is the person. She always she's. That's the character. She wondered what her life would have been. If she picked that that's the character where she realized like, wow, you really can find like true love and true happiness. Even if you go off the path, people tell you, you know? And I think that, like I would say that she definitely has strong suits with both of them and she has weaknesses with both of them.
But I think that her heart lied the whole time with Josh Moore. And I think it was more on like a. Call it a spirit, call it emotional, call it a whatever journey you want to call it. But I think like their hearts connected in a different way were Charles and her connected because they were
Julia: like, they grew
Christina: up together and like theory, you know, like when you grow up with someone like, and you're in the same age group, you can find things in common.
You can. Yeah. Like if you find something in common with someone who's not in your age group and you find that much in common with them, like it's hard for you to kind of disprove the fact that there's a magic there on the
Julia: flip side that
Christina: leads for problematic things with the age gap in the sense of like, if they admitted a different time and there's that argument as well.
And that weirds me out and I don't want to get into it, but I think for where they met in their life right now, how they are, I think that their journey of like breaking up and getting back together and doing all their things, like it was right for them. And Josh did. He was a true guy that, you know, like really is a good heart for her.
And I think Liza proved to herself that she doesn't have to just be this like mom, or it doesn't have to just be this like grownup lady or doesn't have to be this or that she can be whatever she wants to be. And she could be happy doing it with no judgements. And I think that that's what was super nice full circle at the end, in my mind.
I just, I selfishly want more. I want more, I wanted
Julia: them to like really fall in love before that happened or I wanted like, you know, I mean, I mean, maybe it's, open-ended like that on purpose because I read somewhere that Josh might be getting a spinoff. Okay. So like be on board with that. So after I read that, I was like, oh, I like the way that they ended it, because then that opens the door for the spinoff.
Right? Like Sutton foster doesn't have to necessarily be, uh, much of a character on his show is he was on hers, but the door is now open and yes. And yes. Give us all the hot Josh. Oh yeah.
Christina: Oh yeah. Okay. I think Charles and Josh are hot.
Julia: Like, yeah. There's no hotness wise. I'm not going either way. I don't care, but I'm just saying like, I can do a spin off.
Yeah. So my thought was in the beginning, Charles and Liza seemed like a really great fit. Like you say, like there's a lot of what you said. I agree with. Especially after her time with Josh, because Josh gave her, like you said, that bit that she missed from her twenties and you know, she was married. She had children right after college.
So she didn't do the whole, like I'm trying to figure out my career. Like I know my career and I'm trying to make my career happen. The dating, the self-discovery that 20 somethings do. If they, you know, graduate and don't have a partner that they married. Um, and like, Josh totally gives that to her. So I agree with you on that.
But then when it comes to like her partnering with Charles, you can almost feel like this sigh of relief in her that she can kind of get before Charles finds out right before he finds out that she's 40, she's kind of got this sigh of relief where she can kind of relax back into being a 40 something year old woman, because they are peers, but it's not, it's not, I mean, she doesn't get to relax that much because in the final episode, he kind of, he doesn't, what am I trying to say?
He gets a little like. He's so on edge about her lying about her age, that like everything gets called into question. And, and in my opinion, I feel like she's banked more reasons to be trustworthy than she has with the age than the age lie that it like. Get stressed out. Like you can see it on her face.
So for, for those of you listening like Kelsey and develop, has somebody developed this app, she has this concept that she wants to do, which I hope happens in real life because shit, that would be amazing called incubator. It starts as this sort of writer salon thing. And then they sort of move it to this app platform and I would 100% pay for it if it became real.
So that's a digression, sorry. But you know, when she applies to the writers fellowship program for him, and, but then also Charles finds out that Kelsey is not intentionally looking for investors, but gets an evaluation of the, the con the concept to see if, you know, if the deal that she's getting from America empirical is fair.
You know, he's just on edge with her the whole time, because he's like, when is she going to tell me about. App thing, but it's like one, it's not hers to tell. Cause that's Kelsey's business. And two, when she does confide in him, like, Hey, they've got this great news, because if you've been a watcher of younger, you know, that Charles wrote a novel about his affair with a younger, with an older woman when he was, when it was in the nineties, when he was like 26 years old, writes a fiction book slightly based on that.
And so like, she's like, oh, I did this thing. And you got in and this is so amazing. And I'm so proud of you and your writing, and you're an artist and you should do this and I'm supportive of you. And then like the whole time, he's just like, would you have told me if I hadn't gotten in, like, he's just doubting her intention and I'm just like her intention, but just the whole thing.
And I'm just like, come on, guys, writers are vulnerable. We don't always have the confidence to share our work. Sometimes you need that person to send you into the abyss without you knowing, because that's not, that's a thing. Like it happens in Anne of green Gables, her aunt Shirley's best friend submits a story for.
For a contest and Diana Barry thinks, oh, if you don't get it, you'll never know no harm, no foul. So it's, to me, it was like lies. His actions were normal in that, but then he's the whole time he's just like pushing on her, like what you have told me. And I'm sorry, we can't have any secrets in like,
Christina: you know, he gets kind of hung up on this secrets thing.
He gets real instead of like, uh, and I don't know if maybe that's another, like, it could be a generational thing or just like with time thing, like the younger people tend to like, forget or like forgive and forget quicker. Like Josh was like, once he found out, like, yeah, you have your feelings about it, but then you, you also like kind of recant and you see why she did it.
And then you go, oh, that was one genuine love. Out of it. I'm going to say one genuine life, because I feel like she had to, to create all of this wonderful, good where, and she keeps talking about all the like, or she goes and tries to be as honest as she can everywhere else to make up for that one lie.
And I feel like everyone else in her life that she surrounds herself, aside from Charles, once they found out after they had their feelings, which you're totally allowed to have, you know, like, cause it's a Shaun. Yeah. Like once you have those feelings and you come back and you realize you go, okay, like you want to stay hesitant for a little bit, like on the trust front for her.
But then like once you see that her character has stayed the same, her personality has stayed the same. She is the same person. The only thing she lied about was how old she was. Then I think that that could be dropped. I don't think you need to keep questioning her. And I think that, yes, you're correct.
Like it does wear on Liz's face. You can see like that. She's always worried. And I don't know if you've ever been in a situation like that, but I've been with someone who doubted me
Julia: constantly, Christina people don't and I'm like, what did I do? I don't understand. Is it because of my age? Is it because I'm a woman?
Like, is it because I'm brown? Like why the I've proven myself time and time again? Why aren't you giving why? Like society says at this point, I should have all of these things in place because I've proven myself and I'm still fighting for that shit. Like my resume is fucking ridiculously packed that I shouldn't be, I should not be treated as if I'm an entry-level position.
Sorry. That was sorry. Go ahead. I felt like it felt good. It did
Christina: feel good. I'm glad. Sorry.
Julia: And you're right. You're right. You shouldn't be. And your
Christina: resume is very qualified, but that's what I'm saying. He's part of that kind, that Charles kind of has that mentality or mindset where once you mess up, like, it's really hard to get back in his good graces and Josh doesn't have that.
Or like none of the other characters seem to do that to her specifically. I don't know. I'm not going to say Charles does that with
Julia: everything, but
Christina: he seems to kind of get a little brunch wholly, and then it, it makes for a situation where she
Julia: can't move forward. She can't ever see if they're gonna,
Christina: where Josh is like, whoop that's over with.
And well, now
Julia: what we can change in our minds, like in the end, when he's like, I've always been right here and I was just like, oh my God, Who doesn't want a person who unconditionally loves them and maybe you don't know how you feel about them, but then when the time is right and you're finally coming back together and they say, they basically say, I've never left your side.
Cause he's never left her side. I got okay. That gives
Christina: me all I've I don't know if I've told you ever about the dream I had that made me go on the date with Taylor, but that gave me all the same fields because in my dream, Taylor said, all you had to do was ask. And that's something that Taylor tells me anytime I have like a problem or issue with him, he's like, all you have to do is ask.
And it's like, so I had that same little like.
Julia: Like little heart, like for
Christina: Lysa. Cause I'm like, that's, that's it. That's all you want. You don't want someone who's going to genuinely unconditionally love you because humans are flawed and you're gonna make mistakes and you're gonna fuck up and you're going to trip and fall and you just want someone who goes, okay, let's not do it that day, but I'll
Julia: help you out.
Yeah. Like how can we help? How can we make sure that we're successful together in the future? And I just didn't feel like Charles was willing to do that. I feel like he was. So, and your point about it being generational is actually really interesting because after you said that I kind of started thinking like, yeah.
Some of the people that my hurdles in life with are a few older
Christina: persuasion, I would say I'm just going to throw it out.
Julia: Anecdotally. I think it's valid. Anecdotally. I would need some actual hard science of course, between.
Christina: What is it? It's boomers, gen X, millennials, gen Z. Yeah. I would say at the end of gen X, getting into millennials, that's when people kind of stopped caring about age or qualifications to earn your respect.
And we just like, you're a person and I'm going to respect you. And then we go from there for, yeah. You know, and I think that's all, I mean about the generational thing is like, it was genuinely taught for so long that you just respect people that are older than you and you don't fight it. You don't say things back, you don't do anything.
And then we kind of got to, I would say like more of our generation. We want to listen to our kids. We want to listen to people younger than us. We want to say like, yeah, let's have a conversation, let's
Julia: have a conversation. Let's have some co talks.
Christina: Let's see, let's see if we can compromise. And so I think that that's more, what I mean about the generational thing is like, we're Lysa they're in the same generation.
But like I said, like it's where it started phasing out where some people kind of tapped into the more like emotional into. Like thing and other people stuck really hard with that. I was raised to respect your elders. I'm going to
Julia: stick that through which I respect both sides
Christina: as just that's what it is in the generational.
Like that's what happens in generations. And as they get older, that's what you start to see is the ones that were progressive and the ones that maybe stayed a little rigid in their times. And as they get older, like that's how it happens. So that's what I mean, like bringing that, like the Charles Eliza, I
Julia: hope that kind of clarifies it.
Y I think it was a good point in general, because I feel like we all kind of feel like there's some generational divides happening in our culture right now. And just a lot of confusion about that. Like, I'm an older millennial. So when people, my age say things like, I don't understand Instagram, I don't understand Facebook.
All that was just stupid. I'm just like, y'all we were in college when this shit drops. So like you like, no, you don't, we weren't 40 when this stuff showed up. Right. Like we were. Two-ish so we were young. We were young enough that like, this is part of, it's not our formative years, but it's part of our formative adult years.
It's one of those things to me. I think people at work sometimes think I'm younger than I am because I'm social media savvy and it's like, the times are changing and I don't want to be outdated. I want to, I want to stay relevant. Not because I want to stay relevant to be in the in-crowd, but because once you stop, that's when you start to decay and yes.
And let me preface that with, I used to work in aging services and all of the people who stopped moving with times literally started dying. You know, their health declined their, their mental health declined. They, there was all the, they became isolated and lonely. I don't want. That's not for
Christina: me. Well, it's also, it's not to say that you have to agree with everything that comes to the new age.
I think a lot of people have this misconception. Now we're just digressing. A lot of people have this
Julia: misconception that.
Christina: As you get older, you should kinda like stick to like what, you know, in your ways. And like, whatever, but it's like, you can still stick to what you know, and you can still stick to your ways and still be open to learning new things.
Still be open to trying new things. Still be open to incorporating. Some new stuff in with all of your, like your hard set, fast rules, and you can still, and still try to show your rules and like find ways to compromise them down so that they do pass on to the next generation or whatever. And I see, I you're right.
I've seen a lot of people who stop deciding to grow and you see their health decline immediately. The people who retire, who used to go like working 24 7 and then retire immediately, they died. Very sorry that got both like dark died very quickly because their, their brain is so used to being. Yeah. And then like they slow down and their brain realizes how old they are and they go,
Julia: oh, and it's not a one that you're not moving, you're not active.
So your brain can collect all these platelets from preventing you from doing things where my mom was talking about retiring. And I was like, cool, have a plan. Find some organizations, I don't care what you do. Sit around the house and rain all day, which if you did that on a Wednesday, great. But if you did that seven days a week, not maybe me at my age, not you at your age, you know, because yeah.
You have to, so it's your primary source of socialization is
Christina: I see, like people going on walks really early in the morning, or really late at night, like with their dogs or you see like little bunko groups or tennis groups or something
Julia: like people still play Bunco. I don't even know how to play. Okay.
Christina: My coworker does.
And that's why I know
Julia: the other day
Christina: she was like, oh, I'm going to dinner with my Bunco girls. And I said, what,
Julia: how old are you? Like, she's the mother she's no, she's just her birthday. A year. She was born a year after me. He says, he's younger than me. I know. He knows how to play bunker. Oh, I know how to play Bunco.
Christina: You don't have to think Bunco.
Julia: Yeah. How been friends this long and I didn't know. You knew how to play. Look, it's been a hot
Christina: minute so I can get a refresher, but like, yeah.
Julia: I used to play with my mom when I was a kid. Oh, that's adorable. I love that. Okay. Let's get back on topic. So Joe, you know, Josh and Charles are the main love interests of Lysa.
However,
Christina: I have a question for you. Oh yeah. Fire away as a writer. Do you wish that they would have wrote in more options for Liza versus like just one and the other, the whole scene? Like they had little characters, but like I genuinely wish she would have tried to date somebody else for a good long stretch to like break up.
Duality.
Julia: So now that you say that in preparation for our conversations, I did go back to the very beginning and rewatch it, but also we know that I'm just going to do that probably anyway, regardless whether with the podcast it's coming to an end, I'm sad. I need to watch it from the beginning. Like that thing, that thing.
So in season one, it is primarily Josh and Charles. And David the ex-husband and, you know, it would have been interesting, I think, to see. So there's this character, Matthew Morrison from glee, um, of glee flame he's on season two, his character is like a sheep farmer. And like, he enlies, I have this really beautiful connection and
so inappropriate, but it, that was only one episode, but I was like, man, their connection is all about that until you
Christina: just said it. And I was like, oh,
Julia: So, I don't know, maybe like, I feel like maybe that would have been a nice storyline to drag in the sheep out of it. Or if you, we find out like in three episodes instead of at the end of this episode.
Christina: Okay. Yeah. Maybe that's what it was. I felt like anytime they did have a potential interest for Liza was like, it didn't last long.
Julia: Yeah. There was one guy, Jay, Jamie J shows up in season four. He's a rep at Macmillan. And they have, but it's not, it's not like a solid thing either. It's like a couple episodes.
Like he knows the truth about Liza, but accidentally finds out. I also thought they were a fun fit because he was kind of open in the way that Josh is open. But he went to school with Charles, which we find out that Charles his nickname in college was up Chuck, because he couldn't hold his liquor.
Christina: I want to know, like what it would have been funny to do some sort of like pretty to see what Charles was like in college.
Cause I feel like he probably had. The reason he was drawn to Liza was because she was the kind that she took the path. He wished he could have taken, but he had like some rigid family that he had to like,
Julia: yeah, you're going into the family, but you have to be the business
Christina: side. You can't be an artist. He had to be very, and that's probably also.
Coming full circle. Why he keeps it like counting it in on Liza, because I bet in his growing up, like, that's what it was like, no, we have a business to run. It's a family, you know, like this is our name and you're going to be renting it. You don't like lies out there. You don't want this out there.
Scandals.
Julia: What could be, what's the headline going to be if you get caught? Exactly.
Christina: So that's probably what he's kind of pushing on to Eliza, but then it doesn't make sense. Cause he's like, you can run the imprint.
Julia: Like I don't, I don't trust you with my heart, but I trust you with all my money and my life like savings.
Yeah. I don't know my life's work. Yeah. You can have that, but you can't have my heart. Yeah. So we so random, but you know what? It would have been nice to see more because isn't that. So, okay. Again, in my limited life experience, isn't that, I just assume that if you live in a big city, like New York or San Francisco, Miami, you know that Los Angeles, that you're dating a lot because you're trying to find somebody and everyone goes to the cities to try and make a certain type of life happen.
There's a lot of men, I wrote them down, but there's not a lot, but there's not a lot. When you think about when I, when I compare it to my life and how much I dated and the limited time I have to date, I've definitely dated more than these women. So it makes me, it makes me think like, yeah, they probably could have, but then how do you do that to still fit in with line in line with the show and the scene of the show where
Christina: like, you kind of have to.
It's
Julia: a show. We have to just realize the show and not real life in lies. It can't just be out on dates all the time, because she has things to do that we want to see more
Christina: than her
Julia: dates, but
Christina: like it is, it is. Yeah. It's interesting to think. Like, even if you don't see those. Okay. So here we go. Here's a writer question.
Where are you? Sorry. My
Julia: brain just sparked in the action now. I like it.
Christina: If, if you were writing a show, would you? Because in my mind, I think you could write characters on. That never actually make it to the show. Like, meaning you don't need an actor for them because we are in the digital age, you can have Lysa talking to somebody on Tinder or something for a couple episodes and they could have made her grow as a person, without us ever meeting that character.
Yeah. That could have been ways that we could have also seen, especially in big cities, her date more or her get more like a diverse dating pool or anybody even Kelsey, anyone else, like, why are we only dating the one person we see in the office? I'm sorry. Have no one told you, like you don't date where you work.
Like let's outsource a little bit, find anybody else like the office
Julia: next door. When I started my job, people were like, oh my God, the dating, the dating options are going to be amazing. And I was like, they're not, I'm sorry. What makes you think. Date somebody I work with that sounds awful. Not everybody can be Jim and Pam.
Okay. Yeah.
Christina: Like, okay. I will say the dating pool, like going into a new job. Yeah. It does open up your like ability to meet new people and new sources and stuff. But like, I
should
Julia: not be a dating pool. Like this is my career. This is, I need to make
Christina: money. You know what I don't need to be doing
Julia: while I'm here is worrying about love and then potentially getting fired because we had a bad.
Not even a board because, or because
Christina: I have no self control and I'm going to slap your ass in the hallway. Like I
Julia: can't, I don't want to get in trouble for making out in the locker room. Okay.
Christina: because
Julia: that's, it's going to turn my relationship so
Christina: much better if I'm working with you, because now the temptation of
Julia: not being able to touch you is there, right. You just I'm like a child, you
Christina: put candy in front of me and now I can't have it. No. Did your ass somewhere else? I can't focus if
Julia: you're here, but you know, it's like Charles and Liza with their on again, off again.
Shit. And how awkward those scenes were when they went off again and he is the boss. So you're just like, so how's
Christina: the rest of the office because we should've seen that at least once, like the episode, how the rest of the office has to deal with their on and again, off
Julia: again. Cause that can't be a fun fucking workplace.
No, especially when he's dating quick. Because she is so just Quinn. Hmm. I don't like her. I don't like her either, which sucks because I really like that actress. I'm so irritated and she's going to be in the gossip girl reboot. So now I'm like, I got to find something that she was in, that I liked her in.
So that way I don't, cause I don't know what her character is going to be in gossip girl, because I love that you also
Christina: do this. You have to go find a character that you liked her in Surrey. Like
Julia: her. Yeah. I get that way to him. Like I don't want to see you. And I'm like, that's a character it's character.
Yeah. Cause you know, I love, I came into gossip girl late and I love it and I'm still excited for the reboot. And then when I saw that she was in the cast, it's like, fuck you. It just Quinn, like, not even like a villain that you needed to be there to be kind of a bad person. Like you're a genuinely bad person.
Like you get women to be vulnerable with you and then use it against them like that, where she's like, oh yeah, Eliza, I wouldn't have married her. I'm in the same boat with you, like marriage, this blah, blah, blah. And then fucking turns around and tells Charles, I wouldn't have said, no, fuck you Quinn like, Nope, you are me
Christina: girls.
Do you know like that too? Like everybody knows somebody like that. And you're like, why? Why can't
Julia: like so unnecessary. We don't have to be like that too.
Christina: As women, it is so much like, it is so much better to just build each other up and be
Julia: like, you
Christina: got this, stay away from me each other's men, just please,
Julia: for the love of God, for the people in the back have dated all of my ex-boyfriends and were really good friends with me first, stay away from other.
Uh, is it loud enough
for anyone who's not seeing that? I put my hand around my mouth to make sure they all heard it, right. That's right. That's right.
Christina: That's right. That's right. Like queen is the worst. She was, I felt like she had so many times where she could have been, the writers could have redeemed her as a character too.
And instead they dug her farther, which again is not the actress's fault, but I was like, this character doesn't have any redeeming qualities in my book. Like at all, she had, I forget what episode it was, but she had like a pity party for herself where she's talking about. Like, and she was right to an extent how, like, no one talks about how hard it is to be hurt, like to be the bitch, to have to be like this forward, you know, like to be the strong front, to get shit done, to do this.
And it's like, I understand again, that mentality would being a woman in the workforce to be successful. You kind of have to be a bitch. You have to be in a, I say bitch lovingly, because that's what men call it. Right. Men in assertive, all it is is women acting like men? That's all it is. But men say that is being a bitch.
And it's like, well then how about you start changing your behavior, sir, because that's the only time you take me seriously in the workforce is if I act the way you do. And you're not picking up on it because I'm supposed to be dainty and socks. So like I get that she has this outer core. That's gotta be so hard, so tough for her to be as successful as she is, but the only way moving forward in life to change things is that we have to show the dichotomy of people's personalities.
And we have to show the fact that you can be assertive and, uh, I'll say aggressive and forceful with what you want and what you desire and how you go about getting it as a woman. But you don't have to be quote a bitch or you don't have to be rude or cutthroat or nasty picking. You can tell you came with, do it.
Julia: She would take Kelsey and lives it down. Any chance she got, especially after building trust with them, or even building a little bit of trust with them. And that really bothered me because it's like, you're not doing anything to ensure that. That you're making, how the fuck do you get shit done when you're like, you're literally burning bridges.
And so to me, it makes more sense to be like strong, assertive, to get what you want to get done. If people don't trust you to work with you, you've got a bigger problem. And then you become a bulldozer. And then it's like, now you're not even a person that people want to work with and you're just taking what you want.
That's fucking dictatorship, man. Like nobody wants that shit. And it's also
Christina: just not setting up the, I personally think if we're going to change. The way that we're viewed as like the working class, like women working class, like we have to go about it in the strong way that we are, which is the more emotionally intact, not so cut throat away.
We have the ability to go. I can build you up while still succeeding on my own. I can be nice. I can be empathetic. I can be there for you while still taking like time for myself to do what I need to do and get where I need to go. And I just wish that they would have used her character for some growth to do that, to show like, maybe you were starting this like cat fighty way to go about it, but there's ways to grow and be a better person or whatever.
And I wish at least. I don't know, just do that for her. Give her some redeeming
Julia: qualities, right. Instead of her slamming the door, shut on everybody, like leave the door open and have her lifting the girl, like walking the women in with her. That's what,
Christina: we're just leaving it open to see that like maybe her character can grow in time.
Like even if it was just that like being Charles
Julia: she's also, she's free. She's awful to everybody. And it just is in when Pauline comes back, Pauline is Charles his ex-wife for those of you who haven't seen the show and that actress bugs me.
Christina: Why isn't he married to John? Ma'am I really want to like her and she bugs me.
She's such a good actress.
Julia: She's in friends with benefits. She did this show. I want to say in the early two thousands, late nineties called notes from the underbelly. I think it was only, it might've only been half a season.
Christina: I don't really remember. I seen her in like a lot of like random movies. Yeah.
She's done shows she she's a really good actress. I don't know what it is about her. I just am like, it's just something about it. I can't,
Julia: can't get to stay focused in real life. She and John hammer married for a couple of years. John ham is Don Draper from Madmen counts. Talk about Kelsey, or actually we spent some time talking about John Charles and his other women.
Should we talk about Josh and fucking Claire? Because at first, you know, I'm like, I don't know how I feel about this chick. And then she pulls this whole like, Liza, you have to live for us because you did all this lying and blah, blah, blah, and Laila. And you have to do it and puts her in a corner and, and Sutton Foster's care in licensed.
What now I'm uncomfortable. And then they, you know, and then all these things happen and, you know, whatever I, you know, and then, and then Claire does redeem herself in the end, but I still didn't like her.
Christina: I just know I didn't really like her
Julia: and Josh just wanted it to work so bad. He was so crushed after he had Lysa.
And you know, here's this woman from Ireland and he's just so eager and she didn't, it's
Christina: just got the big heart.
Julia: I want a Josh in my life. That's what it mark that. Okay.
Christina: Bookmark that I, uh, yes, he did try really hard. Like he put his whole heart into. And I'm saying bookmark this, because I, I have done this before, too, where you, like, you know, your heart's not in it with this person,
Julia: but you go 110% full steam ahead.
Christina: We're doing it, we're going for it. And I feel like that's what Josh did because he couldn't grit like gripe with the fact or deal with the fact that like him, he just needed to cope with him and Liza being over for that moment, hopefully, or just, you know, over in that time. And I think he just did what most guys do, which is jump into something else and then like try to convince himself that it's better.
And then he got himself into a little bit of a pickle, I guess, now that I've like, I'm genuinely with
Julia: someone I'm very excited about, very happy with, I
Christina: know I've met my person. I'm like, why the fuck are we stringing people along when we know that our heart's not in it? Amen. I genuinely like, I feel so bad that I've ever done it.
I feel bad that people have done it to me, but. I know part of the lesson is like, you just have to feel that kind of love before you realize it, but I'm like, God, there's times though, where, you know, in your gut that you're just not in it and you are forcing it. And I feel like Josh knew he's always known, which is why he said that at the end, that it's lies.
And I feel like he should have used that time to not go into, I mean, maybe make a baby because he did want kids and like good. Now she has that life path for himself. However,
Julia: like he could have grown up in other ways as well. I wonder if the writers felt that was the only way to satisfy his need for a baby, was to bring somebody else in and not create that conflict between he and Leisa any further, because I get Lysa when she's like, I don't know if I want more kids.
Like my parenting is at the end of like the constant daily need. Cause college is in our future sooner than later. And so even when he was six, the idea of starting over with like, Listen. I love to sleep. My child slept through the night when he was six weeks old, you know? And so, and so all of these little things that you have to give up
Christina: potty training, I didn't even remember
Julia: how my potty trained
Christina: if we're going to be honest.
Like I was at the park with, uh, my friends the other day, and I turned to my friend and I told her, you know, I think I'm going to try to convince Taylor that we only need one coming from me since we have one already.
Julia: And like, if he's really dead set on two, I need a
Christina: five-year buffer because have you seen toddlers?
They're insane. They are insane. And I don't under like, Liza is so
Julia: fitted for her to say like, I don't want anymore. I'm done like that.
Christina: And for women, it's a lot more than men, men don't they do not realize the toll it is taking on like women, but the first 10 years of your life, You have two parts of you, you have you and you are a mom and that's not like you get to live like, oh, well I get to just go be me know at all times.
Julia: Yeah. Once your mom you're always a mom. And then, I mean, we saw it with the pandemic. The bulk of the unemployment ended up being women who had to leave work because their childcare is closed. Schools are closed and they have to do, they have to step up and do this job. And the recovery rate for women, isn't the same.
Like there's still millions of women who are not going back to work because things aren't still fully repaired and the way for them to go back to what they were doing and the way that they were doing it, pandemic or not, you know, there's a lot of. Deficits that happen once you start having a child, because you're taking all of that energy and putting it into the child, that would have been somewhere else.
And so when she, and Josh had that conflict of like, I, you know, he's like, and I don't know what it's like to have a child with somebody who wanted you and wanted to have a child with you. So maybe there will, you will know though that's the difference. And so you have that experience if, when, if, and when you will start to make those things happen.
So to see John. So desperately be in love with this woman and want to create a human with her. It just, so I'm twofold one, I'm just like, fuck, what does that feel like? I would love to know what that feels like and to like, I get you Liza, because it is a lot of hard work and you're the one who's going to have to make the sacrifices though.
I think that with Josh, he would have picked up more slack than what we've seen a lot of men do in, in history, his past with parents. And I think so I think they needed Clare or a clear, it didn't have to be Claire, but they needed somebody, another character, another character to come in and give him that.
So then that way he and lies. I could go back to being like, you
Christina: made a really good point. I kind of want to touch on. You said, I don't know what it's like to be. So in love with someone and want to have, you know, like create a human with them and then they, them not like, not that they don't want that back with you, but like, that's not a possibility.
And I will say, like, one of the things I had to grapple with, like when I first started dating Taylor was the fact that he had already gone through these life phases that I had held so true to my heart like that I wanted to experience for the first time with somebody together, you know, like I wanted to do all of these, like, and I w I wanted to do all these things as firsts with him.
And I like now, knowing that they will just be first for me and not for him, I had to grieve that. And I wonder if Josh had to grieve parts of that in a way of like, because you do like, it is a human thing to go. I had an idea for my life and if it doesn't turn out that way, it's okay to grieve it. It doesn't make it bad.
It doesn't make it. It just means that like, it's not what happened. I'm going to agree that so I can let those feelings be felt. And then I go, but look at how amazing it's turning out instead. And I wonder if Josh felt that in a way, because he did, like you said, he did get. The kid that he wanted, he wanted to be a dad and he hit, he now has that fulfilling factor.
And hopefully now he'll get the love factor and he'll feel that like that twofold. But I wonder if he ever has that, like, I wish it was with the person that, you know, yeah.
Julia: I actually just, I could believe that he is the type for that, because if you'll remember, Claire just shows up out of the blue pregnant.
So he doesn't, he doesn't get to do the whole joyous we're pregnant, you know, it's like, here's my huge ass baby bump. This thing's coming in four weeks. So he doesn't get to have any of that pregnancy stuff either. And he just loves Liza so much that I could see. Should they do a spinoff, please do a spinoff that
Christina: spinoff that could
Julia: potentially be a story arc that happens because he's not halved.
He's not having that. We're so excited we were pregnant. Like he didn't get that. He didn't get to be excited about the person that he's married to because they were in love at some point or in last, you know, whatever area, um, says I'm pregnant and then he didn't get that opportunity to be excited. It was, you're going to be a done four weeks, how fun, which is so awkward.
And, and he, you know, and we see it in the final episode, he just loves lysis so much that I could see that coming back to being.
Christina: Yeah, it would be interesting. I'd like to see them touch on it and to just touch on like what it is like their co-parenting style, because again, She has a teenage or she has a daughter who is not that far off from his age.
So
Julia: he was 26 when the show started. And I want to say that
Christina: her daughter was what, 17 or eight,
Julia: that meant teen or 18. So it's more age appropriate for her, for the daughter to be
Christina: basically what I thought about was like, that's my brother and me and my mom. And it's like that. When you think about that, that's kind
Julia: of weird.
And so like, I w
Christina: it's going to be interesting now that you have basically someone from each different generation now with Josh's child. Yeah. And if they were to all, you know, like, would it be a family in the some weird way, it's a family. Like, how does that family dynamic work? Show us that, how don't we put that on TV?
Because those are things that we're not seeing right now, the age. Parenting and there's, it's all over. It's all over.
Julia: Yeah. Why not? And it would be,
Christina: I should say, put it in the normal way because the only thing they do right now is make it, so it's a joke and I don't want everybody's family arc to be a joke.
It's not, there's, there's genuine family arts that are, yeah, it's a little bit weird, but that's not a joke like that should, I mean, I just made fun of it. I'm very sorry. But I'm saying like the reason that's what happens. Like if we make it more normal, we make it more regular than it won't be. And maybe that could be a good thing to, again, diversify, because I always like to show like all the sides that I never thought about.
Like, as I'm like, oh my God, look at all this stuff. I never even thought was possible. And it was fun and exciting. And it's like, that's the stuff that like, if we never show it on TV or if we never show it out in the world, like, we want you to know, we'll just stick to these like narrow tropes, like, oh, well that's weird and gross.
Julia: Yeah. And it would be nice to see. Josh and Clara co-parenting cause they did hit a match, but we didn't get a lot of it. It was just kind of a side story, which I get, you have to have like these sort of subplots happening. Um, and then when Kelsey, we didn't talk about Kelsey and her dating life, but like when, so Claire started stating this guy, fuck is his name Dave, when Kelsey starts fucking Dave and Claire's ex Dave, we don't get a lot of Dave.
So we don't understand why they break up, which is fine. I think that was necessary. I think it was important that we don't see their breakup. We don't fully get the story about their breakup because then here he comes in being this charming, fabulous guy to Kelsey and Kelsey doesn't understand, but she's like, well, Claire and I aren't friends, so this can happen.
But then we understand why, cause he's a douche-y in the end, but to go back to Kelsey, she had the boyfriend fad in the beginning.
Christina: Oh, remember that
Julia: guy died from that random thing falling from the sky. And I wasn't a fan of him cause he was 100% of Disher and was a total tuner.
Christina: Oh my God. I completely forgot about
Julia: it.
He was only was he only in season one? I think he was only in season then. I all know he wasn't in season one in season two, but she's so head over feet for this guy and he's a total douche. Sure. Yeah. And then, I mean,
Christina: I feel like that's also, like that's also part of dating. Like you end up falling for someone who just seems like they're super great.
Julia: I guess that would've been more susceptible to that, but now I'm just like, oh yeah,
Christina: no, I started dating and you learn all the different tropes. You go, oh, this is, you got to stay clear from these flags and this flags, but when you're young and you. You're like on paper, this guy has it going on. And then you realize like later on people, then you got to
Julia: follow your gut.
Yeah. But then Zane shows that I'm in season three.
Christina: Okay. How do you feel about Zane? How do you feel about her and Zane? And I have
Julia: a dynamic, I have a complicated relationship Zane, because Zane is, I love him in the beginning when he shows up and they first started dating. I think it was beautiful. I think that he's got a lot of creative style.
He's so smart. And, you know, he's, he represents like the less than 1% of black people who work in publishing. I don't know if it's less than 1% anymore. I feel like more and more, uh, houses are hiring, um, editors and higher ups that are diverse. But in, in the context of how the literary world is still very 94, 90 5% white still.
Okay. That's a large number. He's our representation of the 5%. And he. Smart. Well-read beautiful. And a little cutthroat. He and I struggled when he would screw over Kelsey in work. Yeah. You know, he's, he steals
Christina: and have that twin element to him. He meaning though he is redeeming, but I'm saying like, in the work sense he does like what Quinn would do where he'll use, you like to get you nice and vulnerable to open you up.
And then he uses that against. Yeah.
Julia: So there's two scenes that totally stick out in my, in that of my mind that where he's like, shit, there's a scene where he and Kelsey are having like romantic evening and he's cooking for her. And like, yes, please give me a man that can cook. Cause I'm so tired. I can't cook.
Um, but, and she leaves her like, they're like, okay, no phones, cause they're getting intimate. And so he sees this and this is one of the reasons why. Allow the display of a text to be on my phone. Cause that means anybody who can see my screen can see what people are texting me and fuck that I'm too private for that shit.
But he sees something from Charles about work stuff and he scene takes that information and uses it to his advantage and steals their largest grossing author. And that is so fuck that because it is do or die. If you don't have somebody who can bring in millions every year, like that's according to younger is a problem.
And then there's another scene. So they're promoting Pauline's book, marriage vacation, which by the way, yes, I did read and yes, I do own. And they're at GMA. He's now working for empirical. When we first meet him, he's not. And he and Kelsey are sort of having this sort of territory war, but then he tells the GMA producer like, oh yeah, you can totally do this thing, blah, blah, blah.
Even though Charles was like 100%, I'm not getting on the show with her and he pushes it to happen. It flops. Pauline and Charles aren't giving the hosts and the producers, what they want because Pauline and Charles, his relationship is non-existent, which always bothered me that Pauline didn't understand why her husband didn't take her back with open arms.
I'm like, bitch, you left your family for a year. Like that's hard anyway. So then dangerous, healthy. He's like, oh Kelsey, this is your author. That was your producer friend. How did like, this is all on you, but he's the one who fucked it up. Made me so mad.
Christina: You make a good point about the texts that she could see that.
But also like, I don't want to live in a world where like, Someone I'm sleeping with is just looking at my phone and then using anything that they see against me. That to me, like, if I can't trust you, then why are we doing there? Was this guy
Julia: a couple years ago, or maybe it was last year. I don't know.
Cause what is time? Right. It's all relative at this point because COVID just like wiped. The world was the last time. Well, this article breaks and this guy had been basically taking pictures of people, looking at their phones, but like over their shoulder. So you can't see the person, but you can see what their screens and then this huge conversation starts about like, that's an invasion of privacy.
Well, is it because they're in public and like all these things and I'm just like, Hey, number one, this is why I don't read text. And, and that's prior to, cause I watched too many psychological thrillers in my formative years that I'm just like as little information as possible when I'm out in public.
Yeah. But it was crazy. Some of the stuff that he like was reading over people's shoulders, it was like, some of it was deeply intimate. Some of it was deeply personal. Some of it was traumatic and it's just like, holy shit. And then immediately I went out and bought a privacy screen for my phone that I still have yet to put on
Christina: the privacy screen.
Yeah. I've never like, I never wanted that probably because I just genuinely want to live in a world where there's trust. But. But yeah, I see a lot of like, you'll see memes online of people going like, Ooh, that doesn't look like a good message. And it's just, cause someone's like send it, you know, for hours or like you see all of the, you can't see the words, but you could see how long the blue bubble is or something.
And you're like, but also I feel like we should take it. Like you see a stranger on the street, you're allowed to have whatever thoughts you want. You're allowed to have whatever in your mind
Julia: you want. Don't take a
Christina: picture of that. If you happen to look over and see the person's texts and you saw more than you should have, just take that in your own mind and look the other way and
Julia: digress in your head.
You don't have to worry, get level or respect for the other person's privacy. Yeah. So,
Christina: okay, so back to Zane. Yes. He does have redeeming qualities. I do like him as a character on the show a lot. I do like him in that sense. I don't like him as somebody to date. I think he's got way too many flaws still that he needs to grow from, or he needs to date outside of.
And same with Kelsey. I don't think Kelsey was a good match for him either. She was not nice to him either. She didn't always do the best stuff.
Julia: Like I think if they didn't work in the same industry and I think this is where you were going, if they didn't work in the same industry, I think they would have been a good fit.
Christina: Yes. And I think they knew that as well. Like they both really wanted to keep trying to make it work, but they also both realize that their jobs depended on them not working out.
Julia: Right. Right. Maybe
Christina: instead of torturing each other back and forth by hurting. Like that, like you just go, Hey, let's be coworker friends, which
Julia: is hard too, because publishing is kind of small.
Yeah. It's hard for me to say
Christina: let's be friends because again, they're going to be still doing the same thing they're doing right now, which is trying to steal each other's clients.
Julia: So let's not even try. Right. Let's let's appreciate each other from afar.
Christina: That's it? Yeah. Like just a PR we had a one time thing.
It was fantastic. Let's keep it in the old file and book for later on, but don't try to make this into something it's not
Julia: amen. Okay. Last point to discussion to discussion. Yeah, sure. Life's hard. And then you truths true. Maggie and Lauren bring in the LGBTQ representation. You know, Lauren's a little bit more fluid.
She does not, she will date. Anybody if they gave her heart a flutter. And I kind of love that about her because she has no inhibitions where I'm like more like I'm, I'm very, I'm very reserved until you get to know me. Um, and you know, we talked about my Maggie last time. Maggie's license, longtime friends.
I'm assuming they met in college. Lauren is Kelsey's best friend. And then the two of them are just, oh my God. Remember when they hooked up, it was like half a season. They had episodes where they looked up. Yes. Yes I
Christina: do. That was at the beginning ish. Right? I think it was
Julia: season two or one, but it was that early.
Christina: But they never let any of that get weird for them later on in life. And I love that because it shows that I just realized
Julia: you can't see each other naked and duke all kinds of intimate stuff to each other and still be friends. Sorry, mom, I know you're watching or listening. You can totally see someone's personal stuff.
And then just hang out over brunch. It's fun. And they do, they hang out over brunch. They give romantic advice to each other sometimes like they're very loving and supportive and I love Maggie so much because she'll do things like I don't get straight relationships. You guys do all these things that don't make sense.
It's so funny when she's just like in a game,
Christina: like they show the generational differences. Even in that community. I can't talk on that community or anything, but I would say like, from my point of view, from
Julia: like just a cyst. You know, one day I would
Christina: say, yeah, thank you for having those words. I don't have
Julia: a Mo
Christina: like Maggie shows, like what it's like to kind of.
Uh, lesbian and be someone who's like, I know what I am. I know what I'm here for a note I stand for. But like, I'm also, I stay at not in my box, but I stay in my, like my circle. I stay in my comfortable space where like Lauren is the new generation where she's like, we can love everybody. We can do everything.
We can have, you know, the weight of the world. I don't have to fit myself into like, I'm a lesbian, like I can like this person or this person. And I'm not saying that I'm not saying that they're the same type of, you know, representation. Right. What I'm just saying is the generational difference of the representation type we have now, which I would say.
In Maggie's generation, they probably didn't have all those options. They didn't have all that representation and she still stuck strong and she still stuck to her word. And she's wonderful and glorious and beautiful for that. We're Lauren brings the new front where it's like, people are more accepting from this generation where they are more like, I don't, I don't care.
I don't understand the differences. Like if we don't understand, now we don't care where it would be forced. They didn't understand it was bad. They equated it bad. Where now it's like, if you don't understand, you just go, I don't know. Eventually I'll
Julia: figure it out for that. You know, I think to your point about Maggie, you know, she came of age in a generation where it was still very much.
Considered a choice. It was still very much a negative, you know, Stonewall had like she, so Stonewall happened in 1969, I believe. And so she's not that much, like they're born in the early seventies. So she's growing up with all of this sort of transitioning that's happening within the culture. The aids era is a big thing in the eighties.
So she's a childish when, you know, not quite like a teenager when all of these things are happening. So her perspective is going to be a little different because she experienced a lot of that cultural trauma that was placed on the LGBTQ community. And then on top of that, you know, they referenced that in season seven where she's working with this professor person and she has the show that's what did she call it?
Gypsies. They use the word tranny in the title. She used the word tranny in the title. And I understand now that training is not a word that is used, right? So it's not, it's not an appropriate word, but for her generation, that was a word that was used all the time. Just like how the evolution of how we refer to the different races in words has changed as well.
And so there's a whole segment about being transphobic and having this show and how terrible it is. She makes a comment in this episode about how, like, that was revolutionary for its time, because nobody was doing that. And I thought that was a really beautiful way for them to highlight how much, even just all, like, not just we've evolved as humans in general, but just how much even in the LGBTQ Q community has grown as well.
And, and it was just, I thought it was a re it was really powerful to do it that way rather than like. Sitting down and being like a soap boxy moment, because I think a lot of times with our generations, we tend to do that. Right? Like I get super irritated when these people who were born in 2000 criticized movies from 1985 or even criticize movies from when I was in high school, it was like, you don't understand, this was the way we thought back then.
We've grown since then. Like, I think the cancel
Christina: culture,
Julia: but we've grown since then. And so Maggie's got this opportunity to say like, Hey, yeah, I can see the problem, but it's, that's not who I am now. And we've grown from it and let's move on, but nobody wants to hear her. And, but the, her group still loves her and supports her through it anyway.
And then she ends up with that potential group for nothing
Christina: like you're you're right. She did list live through. All of the, all of the changes, just like, I would say, like how we lived through all the technological changes, like how we saw what it was like to do research for papers in encyclopedias. And then also having to learn how to do research for papers online and learning how to cite your sources in both sides.
Well,
Julia: when not to digress, but when I was in high school, we weren't allowed to use online resources because the internet was so new. They were like, it's not trustworthy or verifiable. And, and then by the time I was a senior in high school, which was in 2001, 2002, they were like, you can have one web resource.
Christina: And then when you got to college, did they make you use more like web?
Julia: No, it wasn't because I did, I went straight to MJC. It was still all Modesto junior college. For those of you who don't know what MGC is, um, it was all still like book resources, book resources. Then I dropped out because that's what you do when you live in Modesto and have no direction, but know exactly what you want to do with your life, but Modesto doesn't offer it.
And then when I went back in oh seven, Th that was when the sh that's when I was like, oh shit, we can use the internet resources. But then they had like a list of like, these are what, the types of websites you're allowed to
Christina: use. I was in middle school when we saw all of the, we had to use books and learn how to do research and write papers and stuff like in middle school, you start learning how to do that.
It was all book-based. Then I got to high school and they said, no, now you do it online. So I literally lived through the transition and I had to learn both back to back. Maggie is now doing versions of that in the LGBT community, her whole life, you know, from the second she realized to that, to your point, like she did live through all of these huge milestone things that happened in the LGBT community and how it's changed over time, where Lauren was more of a product of.
The benefits that had already stuck. Cause they know then like grown from there because you know, of course with new generations, new growth happens and whatever, but it's like, it's really cool for the show to see, or to display those two different points of view. And I would say too to like show them from a woman's perspective because I think a lot of just the show in general, I like that a lot of the stuff is from the women's perspective because when they show stuff from the women's perspective, it's about a mom or it's about like a wife or it's about, it's really nice to see multiple women showing their multiple challenges with different things that don't involve like.
Being a mom was just part of Lysa being gay was just part of naggy. Like it's not this whole soul focus. Like it used to be on women where it was like, well, this is your whole identity now. Right. It couldn't be these multifaceted people. And what I love about younger and what I love about, I guess, bringing it all together now, not just the LGBT community, but like how they did it for like some of the mixed characters, how they do it for the age differences, how they do it for like the different things that they have going on, the different themes.
They really make sure the show makes sure to bring in all the points of view from a personal, like individual standpoint. So this is what I'm facing. This is how I made it just part of my life instead of my whole life. And they did that for each character. That's not something we've really seen on like collection shows or ensembles when there's an ensemble.
Yeah. And I think that that's something like, yes, Liza was the main character and yeah. We see her, all of her different struggles and stuff, but it was really cool to see all the different characters have big themes that they followed through with, through the whole show. And they were also diverse. And I really liked that.
And I really appreciated that the writers did. I mean, as fantasy, like as it is that you can live in New York and do all these things, the themes stay true. Like there's big struggles that they face and they do it on a platform and they give us words, um, that I guess people in like a normal society don't I guess
Julia: they gave us, they gave us the language to be able to express certain emotions and
Christina: it's, and I think that that's awesome.
It's nice that they, and I love the TV land is the one that started that brings it back to, I don't know if I had mentioned it on part one, but like,
Julia: yeah, you did. If you
Christina: don't stop trying to grow, if you don't keep trying. That's all they were trying to do. And it freaking worked,
Julia: man. They really tapped in, I think the show is never about of finding love.
It was always about her starting over. And so you have, so it gave them license to be able to do, to explore all those things and show complex and rounded characters. I do think that maybe, well, actually they did, you know, Mike Mackey kind of a couple of black girlfriends, you know, I don't know where I'm going with that.
Nevermind. Where you going to tell me? You can cut it? I don't know. I don't remember, but I do. I do think that it would be interesting to hear that. Points from people, right? Like, cause like you say, we're not a part of the LGBTQ community. So I'd be curious to hear what the people in that community about the representation and what they thought about the representation.
I'm an ally, but I'm still learning and growing in, in, in that, for me, it was very refreshing to see Lauren be who she is. It was very refreshing to see these relations. B, no fear on screen because you know, when I was growing up, gay characters were bad. There was always something bad happening to them.
There's if, if you're gay, you're going to have a horrible life kind of stuff there wasn't disability to have to see. Maggie is happy, Lauren's confident they're successful. And, and you know, these, it being a part of the community. Isn't, hasn't ruined their lives. I appreciate that for the show, but I'd be interested, especially younger people or actually, actually all ages.
I'd be curious, somebody like 50 watching the show and what they, what they thought about the representation about the gay community. I think
Christina: because I would like to tie it back to the fact that. We are like mixed humans. And we tend to talk about that a lot. Like I wish that they would have had more diversity in that sense, which shows in general are still trying to
Julia: get.
So to that point though, I thought it was really, and that was a big criticism of the show when it first came out, that there wasn't a lot of diversity and not that I'm, I'm not defending it. I'm not defending it. I know. I thought it was, uh, I, because publishing is not diverse. It's not, it's not publishing is white.
So to see a show that shows this is a publishing world, it's 95 and the shows 90% white sort of, you know, they did bring like Maggie had a black girlfriend for a minute. And, um, those types of things, but it, to me, I was like, this is. And to me, it was yes, to me, it was more like a mere holding up saying, this is what we're seeing in publishing.
These are the faces that represent publishing and Insta. And so, um, and now we're seeing more people getting hired and literary agents and blah, blah. But I guess for me, it wasn't as like, this is awful because in grad school, that was part of my focus. Not instead of saying you were saying it was awful, but in grad school, part of my focus was the lack of representation in literature as a whole.
So, so to see younger be hella white, I was like, oh, that makes sense.
Christina: I mean, it does, it does make sense. Like your point makes absolute sense. I would just say in general, like with the seasons, what we've got seven seasons by season, Start introducing some new
Julia: goddamn characters, give someone a break. And like,
Christina: I mean, I get it, but at the same time, it's like when you have a show running that long, like Shonda Rhimes figured it out.
Grey's anatomy, she has no problem. Just dipping in
Julia: and out of characters. Like we can kill people off.
Christina: And you're right in the, like for the type of show, it is, it was very reflective for how it is in the industry. So that makes sense. And I'm not like I
Julia: don't have any qualms against it. That's what we're used to seeing. You're not wrong though. It would have been nice to sort of bring in more than just saying, well,
Christina: that was the main point was like, let's make it more than just like a boyfriend or a girlfriend or like a character that just comes in for this or that.
Like, make it, you could have had an author come in. Like that was of color or of a different, like, yeah, she did do the chore background and just like, get a little bit more in on their story of like, oh, well just like subplots, like, oh, now we're tacked onto this storyline. That's dealing with these issues or whatever, just.
There was options and room to grow in
Julia: that sense is all Darren star is never going to tackle anything big though. Like if he's talking
Christina: about, and again, like you got to stay in your, not your comfort zone, but if you know you're good at something and you don't think you can do something, that would be a representation in, in the way it should be that I get not taking that on, but like,
Julia: but he has grown cause he gave us sane, whereas sex in the city, the first black character that had more than one episode was Blair Underwood.
And that was in like season four or five. I'd never watched a sexy that's okay. There wasn't a whole lot of people of color on that show and it's, that's the joke right in New York city. And it's hella white, like, no, but anyway, well in conclusion, I'm going to miss younger and I'm going to miss the show, but I will rewatch it on Hulu.
Any chance I get? Yeah, it was a, it was a good show and I'm 100% going to end the episode with. I'm team Josh going to end the
Christina: episode with I'm jealous of the fact that she now gets to run an imprint just because her
Julia: ex-boyfriend, this is going so riping fellowship and needed to send it over to somebody who didn't trust.
That's what that's, what's making me jealous about the show youngers that I can't can't win over anything else, but I
Christina: can lie about everything and get
Julia: my whole company. I can't wait to make a lie one day
Christina: to get a company. I'm also a team Josh. So I can't wait for the spinoff.
Julia: I hope it happens. I hope it's braille.
I hope it wasn't just, Hey, we're thinking of doing this. I really hope it's true because I just found Josh. I felt like we needed more of him. I found his storylines to be interesting milk. Probably. I don't know. I can, we can just dive on that. Why on another day. I just really liked his character and I followed him on Instagram.
He went dark on Instagram for mostly most of the COVID, but like before that it was like, Jamie. Yes. Give us all those shower. Partial nudes. Sorry. Whoa,
Christina: listening. Sorry, mom. Tell more. My mom might start listening to give
Julia: more details
and on that note.
Christina: Thanks
Julia: for listening everybody.
Christina: We love you. Have a good day.
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