Whitley Gilbert | 13
Show Notes:
SURPRISE! In honor of Jasmine Guy's birthday today (March 10th) and mine, we're dropping this AD-FREE episode featuring Ivana Robinson about Whitley Gilbert.
Whitley Gilbert is one of the many incredible characters from A Different World. A show about college kids at the fictitious university Hillman.
Visit Ivana's website: ivanarobinson.com
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture Makes me jealous where we analyze pop culture through the lens of race or gender, and sometimes both. I'm your host Julia Washington, and on today's show, my guest is Ivanna Robinson, and we are discussing the elegant, the beautiful, and sometimes snobbish Queen of Hillman College, Whitley Gilbert.
Julia: Whitley Gilbert is one of the many incredible characters from a different world. A show about college kids at the fictitious university Hillman. But before we dive into our discussion, let me introduce you to my guest. Ivanna Robinson is a certified life and leadership coach who empowers unfulfilled professionals to connect with their why.
Julia: Ditching their I shoulds for I want to and I will. Saying no is her favorite form of self-care, but two things. She'll never turn down a Beyonce concert. Or a nap. Welcome to the show, Ivana.
Ivanna: Thank you for having me. So
Julia: excited to be here. I love the two things. You can't say no to . . In a perfect world, all we do is see Beyonce and Nap
Julia: Yeah,
Ivanna: definitely.
Julia: I could live with that. One of the reasons why I'm excited you're here is because you told me that a different world is your favorite show. So I love that we are getting to talk about not just the show, but specifically Whitley, but I love it when people like genuinely have like in their top category the topic we're
Ivanna: discussing.
Ivanna: Yes. Yes. A different world is, you know, definitely my all-time favorite show. I was a kid obsessed with college. . And so I really think, uh, a different world really fed into that dream of like going to college and having friends and I don't know, doing things .
Julia: I love that. So in this season, as I mentioned to you offline, we are discussing wealthy women in the representation of them in media.
Julia: So I've been asking this question of all my guests before we dive into like the meat of our conversation, do you remember what you thought of rich or wealthy women on TV when you were a kid? .
Ivanna: Um, I would say that they were generally speaking bitchy . It's a common
Julia: thread,
Ivanna: actually. Like, like they may have had some, an explanation for why that was.
Ivanna: Right. You might figure out some of their things as to why they maybe had a wall up. Mm-hmm. , but ultimately Right. They were very snobby, very uh, very catty and, um, we're trying to sort of maintain their place in the world. Yeah. Their
Julia: status. I. . Yeah. I, it's, that's a reoccurring thing that I'm hearing is that either there's like defining imagery.
Julia: Mm-hmm. , or the attitude is very much like bordering on mil. Miranda. Priestley, , .
Ivanna: Yeah. It's like there might be a soft layer under there, but. You know, I don't know. I guess it's like with all people, you're gonna fight to maintain your power, so, right,
Julia: right. And it's hard too, cuz what I've learned during this season is that there is not, I mean, we know this, we know the numbers are there.
Julia: There's not a lot of women in power. Mm-hmm. and there's not a lot of women who have, you know, Billions of dollars, let alone millions of dollars even though billionaires shouldn't exist. Um, that part, . But it's still one of those things where it's like you're playing a game, but it's different when you have women being awful to play the game because it's like you already have a disadvantage because you're already being treated like shit because the society system is misogynistic, , but it's not different cause you're playing into it and perpetuating it.
Julia: It's like this weird.
Ivanna: Double edge. Yeah. It's, it is that thing of like the patriarchy doesn't actually serve any of us. But if you have any sense of power of privilege, right? You're going to try and maintain that because you're like, I'm not gonna be at the bottom of this system. Right? Right.
Julia: Like,
Ivanna: if it's bad enough for me, here is pretty terrible down there.
Ivanna: So I'm gonna hold onto whatever, you know, amount of privilege, amount of power that I. . I
Julia: can, yeah. Yeah. A different world. First premiered on September 24th, 1987. Whitley Gilbert, played by Jasmine. Guy is in every single season of a different world. She is the elegant southern bell who often passes judgment to her classmates for their lack of decorum, their tackiness.
Julia: But with every passing season, we learn that she is often misunderstood by her peers. and I have things to say about that, but we'll say it when we get into the conversation. Okay. , when you first saw Whitley, what did you think of her?
Ivanna: Uh, she was awful. Yeah. Like, I don't, I don't think there's any way around that.
Ivanna: Um, I did in preparation for this, I went back and watched, uh, the pilot, which even though those of us who are real fans do not count the first season of a different world. Right. Like it's seasons two through six. Right? Yeah. Um, I felt it was important to see that real introduction. . Um, there's a scene with her and Lisa Bonnet were, they're sort of roommates for a bit and she's talking about how she needed to buy a wheelchair so she could park closer and
Ivanna: I think in that moment, that kind of set the stage for who Whitley is. She was straight up just like, should I be punished because I can walk? Ma'am, what
Julia: Uhhuh . Uhhuh , one of my favorite Whitley moments of season one. And yes, I agree with you, it's two through six because season one is very much like this is a cause we spin off.
Julia: Essentially, which, whatever, that's a whole separate conversation, um, was when Rudy comes to visit and she's like, Rudy, what kind of name is Rudy? She's like, what's your middle name, Lillian. That is what I will call you. I will call you Lillian and you're just like, Uhhuh. This is a very Whitley conversation right now.
Ivanna: Yes. And as I'm sure if we will talk about it makes sense later when we meet her mother, uh, . Yes. But yeah, like that. And I would say that's an episode where do start to see some of the other sides of Whitley, right? If she is not, you know, completely terrible, but, uh, they definitely set the stage for her.
Ivanna: Um, in the beginning to be a very one-sided, I think
Julia: side character. I read an article cause I was trying to find articles about like, what just Jasmine guy reflecting on at the time of working on a different world. And guess what, not a lot out there. It was a lot of like 20 years since the show's. You know, ended kind of stuff.
Julia: Mm-hmm. and it's like, well I don't want the grownup retrospective. I wanna know what Jasmine guy at the time was feeling. And it was really hard to find anything. But one of the things I did find, cuz you know, her accent is so exaggerated. Yes. And when her mom, Diane Carroll also di, her mom is played by Diane Carroll.
Julia: Her mom also has a Southern accent, but it's more of this like richness to it. Whereas Whitten, Whitley's Southern accent is kind of what I now understand to be more caricature type. Mm-hmm. and she had actually kind of fought to, not fought, but she was like, this is, I think, a, a decision we should go with because I think it.
Julia: Add to the kind of slight ridiculousness of her character and they let her go with it. And I cannot even imagine her any other way. No,
Ivanna: I mean, even if you think about how the other characters will like mock her or make fun of her, you know, um, even in their friendly ways, it's her accent they go for
Julia: first.
Julia: Yeah, absolutely. So has your opinion about Whitley changed over time? Uh,
Ivanna: now, yeah, I think she is, you know, sort of like a darling. She's a very, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Not appreciated, but maybe appreciated, but a character that I very much adore. There we go. Yeah. Um, I think, you know, in later seasons of the show and just understanding that time of your life, , uh, I have a lot more, um, I think empathy and, and understanding of who Whitley was.
Ivanna: Yeah,
Julia: I agree. Watching her from season one to the series finale, you realize you don't real at the time. You maybe don't like the first time you watch it. Especially before binging was allowed, was a thing. You don't see how much she grows, but then the way that they let her revert back to the Whitley, we know is it's, it's done tastefully in a way where it's like her growth is still there, but she's still truly there.
Julia: Underneath .
Ivanna: Yes. and they save this as a coach, right? It's all of us. When we get stressed, we're going to default to those, you know, the behaviors that are just more, uh, you know, natural for us that are a little more ingrained no matter how, you know, how much we have grown or maybe . Yeah. We think about, I think, I think it's a very real, um, behavior.
Julia: So we, um, have mentioned a couple times that Diane Carroll. Whitley's mother, she plays the character Marian Gilbert. We first see her on the episode title for she's only a Bird in a Gilded Cage. So part of my preparation for our conversation was to go back and watch all the episodes that Diane Carroll was on, um, because it's just.
Julia: you, like you said earlier, you really get to understand Whitley when you meet her mom, and for those who maybe don't know, Diane Carroll is the most beautiful, the most elegant woman I have ever seen in my entire life prior to being on a different world. She had her own show in the sixties called Julia, where she played a single mom.
Julia: I. If I remember correctly, her husband on the show I think was like, died in war or something. Anyway. He had died. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I even think she won an Emmy for her role in that. In that role?
Ivanna: I think so. Cause I think that was the big thing, right? It was her and then I think Carrie Washington was like the next nominated or Davis.
Julia: I think so, yeah. It was a huge gap of time between, between, um, black women being voted for a lead actress in a role, um, or. I mean, I just, even in to death, she was just so stunningly beautiful and yes, I'm fangirling everybody who's listening to home as you should be. Yeah. It was like, for me, I was like, oh my gosh.
Julia: She played a character named Julia. Like nobody ever does that. And then when I had my son, I was like, oh my God, I love that she had a boy. I had a boy. Anyway, it's a whole thing. Um, so I want to talk about how Diane Carroll her characters, Marian Gilbert. She could either comfort you or cut you depending on who you were and what you were contributing.
Julia: And so I feel like there was no better choice than Diane Carroll to play this role, especially cuz she was on Dynasty and her character. Was it Dynasty? Mm-hmm and her character on di Oh my god, this woman has range y'all. Okay, so I wanna talk about Whitney Whitley and her and, and Marian's dynamic. So, I want you to tell me a little bit about what you thought of her relationship with her mother and how you feel like that explains a lot of Whitley.
Julia: It felt
Ivanna: very relatable in many ways of that you want your mother's approval. You know, there is maybe. Um, parts of her right that you really do look up to. You are friendly in certain aspects, but then there's maybe the expectations that your mother maybe has for you that are, uh, more weighty than than you would like them to be.
Ivanna: Um, and then the episode, that first episode you've mentioned like Whitley is freaking out because she's not married yet, or she is not in a relationship. She is not. engaged and essentially she knows that is why she is at college. Mm-hmm. , right? Her parents met at Hillman. Um, you know, and that's, that's sort of what her lineage is.
Ivanna: It's like, yes, you were supposed to go to Hillman, but you are supposed to get your m r s degree. Yes, yes. And that's
Julia: so true for Marion's generation. That's literally the only reason why you sent your daughter to school was so she can get a solid mate who. Care of her. But what we see with Whitley's generation, I mis, I feel like that's a solid Gen X situation.
Julia: or maybe like late Boomer, I don't know, whatever is that, you know, she's really finding herself and like she came to Hillman with, you know, all of this attitude and, and, and sort of perpetuation of class of like, we don't do, you know, type of things. And. I love the consistency of Diane Carroll Never knowing Kim's name, like, so I went, so I think it was like a total of nine episodes that she's on literally every single episode.
Julia: She cannot, she does not call Kim, which is Whitley's roommate. For those of you who've never seen a different world, which I don't know why you haven't. It's on h b, it's on H
Ivanna: B o Max ,
Julia: but like every, and there's years of time in between, right between her first appearance to, I think it's 92 or 93. and she just can't get her name right.
Julia: Well,
Ivanna: and then that first episode, like her last line of the thing, cuz Whitley is like mom, her name is Kim. Mm-hmm. . And she's finally like, well it shouldn't be Yeah, . She just, she's like, I don't like it. I do not agree with this .
Julia: Which is a fabulous throwback. And to the Rudy episode. Mm-hmm. , and you're just, oh,
Ivanna: I'm not calling you that.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. I just love how you have this woman who is so polite, like the episodes, these are the ones that are fresh in my mind where Whitley and Duane are engaged and they're having their engagement party. It's, you know, the first time. . Yeah. And like just how Dwayne's mom and Marion are with each other and how like she just blatantly flirts with D um, Um, Dwayne's dad and she's just so, like her, her cur little responses to everyone are so they're delivered so smoothly that you're like, oh wait, I think she just insulted you.
Ivanna: Yeah. She is very much what I think of when you think about like your stereotypical southern bell. Yeah. And that depending on how she chooses to deliver one single line, it either is a compliment. Or to
Julia: take down? Um, do you, so when you first, so, okay, so let's go back to the reflection part of it. So now when you see Whitley and her mom interact, like how is it different from when you first, first saw it?
Julia: Because I'm assuming you put this show on the background and just have it lets you know. That's what I do. I'm like, Ooh, let's, let's listen to a different world today while I paint .
Ivanna: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Now, you know, I know what's going on and the characters are like friends. Um, and. , I guess. I'm sorry, what was the question?
Ivanna: How was it then? How did I see
Julia: it then? Well, compared to now, like now that you're a little bit, you know, you're older now, you've lived life a little bit and now you see Whitley and, and her mom, like how do, what do you think it does in terms of like representation, in terms of like mother dollar relationships?
Julia: Um,
Ivanna: I, I don't, I guess it's like a love-hate relationship, right? Mm-hmm. in that. I love it because one. I don't, I guess we have the Cosby Show, but I think in this form of like the Southern Bell, I don't know that we really get like, um, Black wealthy families at this point in time. Yeah. Um, you know, on media.
Ivanna: So I think the, the juxtaposition of that, um, even thinking about, I guess, sort of her family versus the Huxtables, right? Mm-hmm. in that first season of Yeah. D Denise comes from money too, you know? She comes from money and her parents are, are wealthy as well, but she grew up in Brooklyn. Right. That's a very different life than Whitley coming from Richmond.
Ivanna: And your pedigree Yeah. Meaning so much. Right. Your, your name carrying everything. Um, and so between her and Diane Carol, It's more like I just get it more mm-hmm. , right. Of like why, you know, Marian Gilbert is the way that she is and why the way she is, the way she is with Whitley. Um, and then I understand Whitley being at that time of her life of this is what I know, right?
Ivanna: And this is what I'm here to do, but also who I am becoming does not completely gel
Julia: with this. Yeah. And it's interesting too when you kind of think about the Huxtable wealth versus the Gilbert Wealth, because. , I always understood the Gilberts being like generationally wealthy in a way. Mm-hmm. that we just don't see represented on television for black families.
Julia: Yeah. Because the way that Whitley talks about like how she grew up and the expectations. . That to me rings very much like my mom went through it and her mom went through it and her mom went through it. So I must go through it too. Probably not that far back, but more like, you know, for sure. Yeah. Her mom and her grandma.
Julia: So therefore Whitley must as well mm-hmm. , whereas like mm-hmm. , she
Ivanna: lives in the dorm, uh, named for, I think it was her grandfather. Her grandfather. Yeah.
Julia: So like that's . It's a lot of pressure. You gave a lot of money to have a building named after you. Yeah, there's nothing around that. Gilmore Girls taught me that if you donate enough money, they will give you a building.
Julia: Mm-hmm. . Um, actually probably, uh, a different world taught me that. And then Gilmore Girls just reminded us. Um, and I do think too, like the level, especially when you get into the later seasons, That fighting against whether or not she should be with Dwayne because like in the beginning it's cute cuz you're in college and there's like, he's this, he's just so cute with his little glasses and his obsession with Denise and then it transfers to somebody else and like all these things, um, But then as they sort of, you know, embark on their relationship and just like the conflict within her about it at first mm-hmm.
Julia: and then it doesn't become a conflict, but now it's a conflict for her parents. Yeah. I thought that that dynamic was really, I shouldn't say fun to watch that's not, that's not the way I should say it, , but watching two Mama Bears kind of be like, my, your child isn't good enough. And then the addicted nation of it.
Julia: That was one to watch .
Ivanna: Yeah. Oh, we should probably say that. Uh, Dwayne's mother is played by Patty LeBell. Yes. Oh my gosh. I
Julia: can't believe I didn't, we didn't say that to start. Like if you wanna wa talk about some serious star power and some fabulous acting, let me give you the exact episodes you need to see the
Ivanna: Thanksgiving
Julia: episode.
Julia: Oh my gosh, yes. When, um, the save the best part for last part one in part two. That's when they're doing the engagement party. Those mm-hmm. , the interaction between the two. Oh my God. Yeah. It's so good.
Ivanna: Yeah. And I just love, you know, I think that is what a different world gives us, is just so many different types of black people.
Ivanna: Mm-hmm. . in one space. Um, and so getting to watch them sort of play out their little class privileged, you know, um, conflict.
Julia: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. If Debbie Allen did anything really well, it was taking that show and turning it into what it became, um, because I don't think. So like Blackish is spinoff grown-ish when Zoe goes to college.
Julia: Mm-hmm. , that works really well. I, I don't know how they made the, I don't know if they used a different world as sort of like the footprint of how to do a spinoff. Mm-hmm. with the co with a kid going to college and was like, this is what the Huxtable should have done. But there's no way they survived. The show would've survived if it had continued to follow Denise all the way through graduation.
Julia: I don't think. The Huxtable did not translate to a different world. Well, Hmm.
Ivanna: I don't, I don't think you're wrong. I wonder, I guess thinking about that, how much that had to do more with like, Cosby letting Debbie Allen sort of take the reins and take the direction, right? Because like if you think about the, the Cosbys, they were this, uh, or the Huxtables, they are this image of like, quote unquote black excellence, right?
Ivanna: Mm-hmm. , but like they don't really be out there talking about their blackness, right? Right. But like, you can't be at a historically black collared university and not. Blackness play a prominent role. Yes. And I think like it doesn't work.
Julia: It doesn't work. And I think that's why the first season feels so muted.
Julia: Mm-hmm. . And so we watched the first season with my son over, we were gonna watch the whole thing. That was our summer show, but we only made it to the end of season two before he left for school. And he. Is that the ant from Spider-Man? Yes,
Ivanna: honey. That is her. Okay. Yeah, that is
Julia: her . We'll do that. It's Marissa Tome.
Julia: You are absolutely correct. And this was my first introduction to Marissa Tome. So now this is weird and also totally forgot she was on the show, ,
Ivanna: because the first season doesn't count. Right.
Julia: How do you think Wi Whitley Gilbert influenced you overall when it comes to your beliefs about wealthy women?
Ivanna: I think it's about giving people a chance.
Ivanna: Mm. Um, you know, I think there are assumptions that we do have, and I think that's, you know, about anyone of any class, right. Of that's how we're socialized is to, to have certain thoughts tied to that. Mm-hmm. , um, but also understanding that people can be very different than their parents. .
Julia: I love that. I think out of all the characters, maybe you already said this.
Julia: I think out of all the characters on the show she's had, she had the most growth from season one to season six. It's just not as like blatant because they still have to have her wits. But if you watch her in season six compared to season one, she's definitely grown as a person. .
Ivanna: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And I, I think one, having her shift from a supported character to one of the main characters or the main character.
Ivanna: Right. Um, definitely allowed them to flesh out her character a lot more than I think we probably would've gotten. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, yeah, just explore those different sides of her and the ways in which she has to be pushed to evolve or to, you know, really own her own identity. Mm-hmm. , I think is really what's big here.
Ivanna: I think is a big part of college, right? Like that's when you do get to separate from your parents, from your family, um, and start to develop your own ideas, your own, uh, beliefs. And so getting to watch that and now having experienced that, I look at it completely differently than I did as a kid being like, what is wrong with this girl?
Ivanna: Yeah. Why is
Julia: she
Ivanna: like that? Yes, because she was, she's, she can be very frustrating.
Julia: Mm-hmm. Whitley. Dwayne was so cute from the jump, like, girl, why'd it take you? So, but
Ivanna: like, she was never gonna, like, he was cute, but like, he was nerdy and. Kind of annoying. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe she had to grow up too.
Julia: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Julia: Fair. Okay. Stop protecting me and Julia be on Whitley side. . Um, who was your favorite character overall on the show? Ooh,
Ivanna: maybe Kim. I love Kim. I think I relate most to her. Yeah. I in many ways, or that she seems most like myself. Um, . So probably, probably
Julia: Kim. Yeah, she is a great character. And to bring it back to Diane Carroll, the way she always referenced Kim in season two as being a scholarship student and a recipient of, and she makes it sound the way she says it.
Julia: You're like, oh, your shoes should be, you're so, that's so amazing. But really it's like cuts cuz the way she Oh yeah. Do it implies like this person is very, very poor.
Ivanna: Yeah, I think she does make a comment like, oh, whatever scholarship Kim has, she's like, that means you aren't just poor, you are also hard working.
Ivanna: Or something really
Julia: smart. Yeah, it's really smart. That's what it was. Yeah. , you're just like, uh, no. I'm like, okay. Um. I love that. I love Freddy. She cracks me up. In the earlier seasons I went the later seasons cause I watched season two and three the most. Mm-hmm. . So the later seasons I don't really know as well, but I always thought, like, I always felt like I related to Freddy in a lot of ways,
Julia: Maybe it was her hair. That's what my hair looked like when I was little. So maybe that's the relationship there. Like you have my hair.
Ivanna: Yeah, I can, that that makes sense because I do think she was the unexpected character. Mm-hmm. to sort of include.
Julia: Yeah, I agree. And when we watched season one and season two over the summer, it was like, , you needed a character like Marissa Toe's character.
Julia: It just didn't need to be Marissa Tome. Yeah. So I feel like Freddy was a really good substitute or a really good tapin to replace more Marissa Toe's character.
Ivanna: Yeah. Uh, I think especially because I were diving more into like blackness. Mm-hmm. , right. Having this charact. Who has a white mom and like, did not necessarily grow up, you know, around a lot of black people, , um, or have the same Yeah.
Ivanna: You know, traditions or, or customs that we're maybe used to, and particularly moving down to the south from New Mexico. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so watching her get to kind. Grow up in a lot of ways and also figure out that part of herself.
Julia: Yeah, totally. Because it is a weird experience in America, especially in the eighties and nineties, and I think.
Julia: unintentionally we're reverting back to it, which is gross. Um, being, being mixed and like mm-hmm. , especially when you do have like the nurturing parent being the white parent. Like that's a totally different vibe. Like the way that my auntie mothered us and the way that my mom mothered us. Totally different.
Julia: and my mom's Italian, so it's like not like, It's like, there, there's a lot of similarities, but still, right? Mm-hmm. , like it's still different. It's still, it, the, the level of like care and attention is a very different vibe. Um, and that could also be another reason why your relationship Ready . Like, cause I'm learning while we're talking on the show.
Julia: I never thought about .
Ivanna: Did you call your mom by her first
Julia: name? No, my mother's Italian. She would never
Julia: Only if we're in the store and she didn't hear me. Y'all mommy, right?
Julia: Mommy, mommy, mommy. Like Anne Marie. Oh hi. Like, oh my gosh. But that like all of the environmental stuff that Freddy's all into, oh my gosh. We were probably the only house recycling . Yeah.
Julia: I don't know. And I don't know if that stems from, you know, I don't know, whatever. It's recycling and being in the, of the environment is not a, a race thing per se. But it definitely was like, I don't know. I grew up around a lot of white people. . One of the things I forgot about on the show that was, yes, I was reminded when I was watching, um, Whitley stand, um, Byron up at the altar, was that, uh, Taylor, best episode
Ivanna: of television.
Ivanna: Yeah. Oh, Colonel
Julia: Taylor for Little Taylor. And what's her name on the show? Julie Julissa. Julissa. Thank you. It's like I was gonna call her, Dawn got married and had a baby, and I was like, didn't this man go to school with Heath? Heath? Cliff Huxtable. .
Ivanna: So that was, that is something during my rewatch, I'm like trying to do math.
Ivanna: Right, because then the opening Jaleesa is 20. She's a, you know, sort of an atypical student. She's 26 years old. I think she's maybe a sophomore when we first meet her. Um, but then we find out that Colonel Taylor has a daughter who was also enrolled in school at the time. So I'm like, you're at Wayne, right?
Ivanna: I'm like, so your wife is at most six years older than your daughter? Mm-hmm. . and like granted they were not together while she was a student. This is after she graduated. Yes. But it is still weird . It is still weird because I
Julia: got so connected to her and Sinbad vibing each other that when I went and jumped ahead and watched those episodes, I was like, I don't, I don't remember this and I don't know if I like it.
Julia: And is that because now I'm deprogramming myself about age gaps between men and women and relationships? Or is it just would I've, did I always feel like that's where I'm at now? I'm like, would I've always felt this way? Or is it because I'm deprogramming myself about age gap relationships? I
Ivanna: guess I don't, they're not a couple that I love.
Ivanna: Mm-hmm. like regardless, but I don't think the age thing. Okay. Like I, because in my mind, jaice was always older, so, right. I didn't really think about it until watching it back now and paying more attention and being like, this does not add up. The math is not math. , um, so that I think like it was, it was always weird, I think, just because of how we had gotten to know them.
Ivanna: Yeah. But the age thing for me did not come up until this most recent rewatch.
Julia: Yeah. Especially because the first introduction we have of Colonel Taylor is in an episode of the Huxtables, where he and Cliff. Compete on, in a track team, on a track meet. Oh. Or whatever it's called. So like he went to, so in my head I'm like, you went to college with Cliff Huxtable.
Julia: Like, this is very strange for me. Uh, , I don't know, but you're right. I feel like that they don't make sense as a couple at all. No. And I'd be curious to know why the writer's room made that decision to pair them. . Yeah.
Ivanna: I don't know. ,
Julia: it's gonna haunt me. My parents will come over for dinner later. I'm gonna be like, mom, dad, help me work through this.
Julia: Why do you think Colonel Taylor and Julissa were an odd couple? And they'd be like, yeah, we haven't watched the show in 20 years. , we don't,
Ivanna: we're not there
Julia: with you. Do you have any, any final, any last things you wanna give us about, about a different world that the world just needs to.
Ivanna: I guess it, I do have to say that some of my favorite, like one-liners or moments are definitely with Diane Carroll and like Whitley, and I think particularly with her and Dwayne.
Ivanna: Mm-hmm. . Um, for instance, during the, uh, episode where Dwayne, uh, interrupts the wedding, oh my gosh. Interrupts Whitley's wedding, you know, the, the best episode of television ever. Um, He, you know, is like, Hey, you know, yelling, whatever. He is yelling and Diane Carroll is at the front of Yes of the crowd, and she just goes die.
Ivanna: Just die. And like, does this little leg kick. It just was so southern and so like she is so over this man. Yeah. Coming in between, like keeping her child from her destiny of marrying a rich man on the
Julia: rise. A senator.
Ivanna: A senator, like he is gonna be president. Like you need to, this is the horse. You need to hit your wagon to Whitley.
Ivanna: Yeah. Yeah. Not this, you know. Poor man who is a child of a bus driver, like yeah, she is not about it. Um, and then like later as once Dwayne and Whitley are married, I think, uh, it's not, I think it's one of the last episodes when she is there helping them to move or whatever. And she's a lot nicer to Dwayne now.
Ivanna: She is a little more on his side cuz he now has a job that, you know, pays really well. Yeah. Um. and they find out that Whitley's pregnant and she's just like, I'm the mother of all the mothers. Like, I get to tell you what to do cuz I'm the mother of the mother and the mother of all mothers . Yeah. Like, she's going to find a way to let you know she is important.
Ivanna: Yeah. Um, and I think that is a tie that she and Whitley share in that Whitley, when it, when it comes to it, you will understand she is of a certain status. Mm-hmm. , she thinks of herself as a certain, you know, caliber. There are things she does not do. Yeah. Or, you know, at least that's what she says. Um, in the process of getting to know.
Ivanna: So it is cool that she never fully loses that, but expands sort of. Mm-hmm. the idea of who she is and her
Julia: identity. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I think, honestly, I think she's such a great recurring character that we don't need. all the time, but when she does show up, she just crushes it. She is so good. And just having like the wedding scene that you're talking about, you know, she's like, you heard that She said, I do.
Julia: And then just like kind of mouthing for Whitley and just like her, all of her interject interjections were just so brilliantly timed and performed like, mm-hmm. , no one else could have played that role honestly.
Ivanna: No. No, because it is, she, it is a very fine line. Because you don't hate Maryam Gilbert. No.
Ivanna: Right. For all of her faults, , you're still like, I'd be cool if she were my mom. Like, if, if I'd be, I could make this word. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it is that very fine line just between, you know, being sort of that foil almost. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, but still being a, an understanding that a lot of it comes from a very caring.
Julia: and it's so generational. Like when I see her, she's so much like my grandmother's generation in a way that. There's like oddly some comfort in it. . Mm-hmm. . But you, to your point about, you know, people like, oh, I wish that, you know, people want her to be her mom when she helps Jaleesa get more money for the choir to do their tour.
Julia: Like that's huge. That is a gift. That Julissa didn't know she needed. She was like, I need 2,700. And she's like, no, no, no, honey round numbers. Give this girl $5,000 please. And Julissa's just like, your mom's amazing. And Whitney's like, yeah, okay, sure. You know? But it's like she does two acts of service in a way that are really beneficial to the community, and she does.
Ivanna: It's that. Using her feminine wiles, if you will. Mm-hmm. , like she is really good at that. Mm-hmm. . Right. And I think for a woman of her generation, it was necessary. Yeah. Right. In a way that it is definitely helpful for Whitley, but is not as necessary for her, uh, survival.
Julia: That's a great observation for the, for like a generational.
Julia: Shift that we see a different world presenting as well. I didn't even think about that. and then it becomes less and less. Well, I feel like I, I say it's less and less, but now I feel like sometimes I need to flirt my way outta shit for safety. .
Ivanna: Yeah, I know. It's, it's, it's a, it's a great skill to have in your back pocket.
Ivanna: I'm, I'm not gonna say, but you know, we also now can like, Have our own bank accounts and stuff. , thank God for that one. So we just don't have the same dependence on a man. Right. That I'm sure Whitley's mother did.
Julia: Right, right, right. And that's her perpetuation. She's like, you have to like, this is the only way you'll be take, you'll be able to take, be taken care of and can have a livelihood is by attaching yourself to a wealthy man.
Julia: Which is what a lot of women hurt. All women. Mm-hmm. All
Ivanna: women. Yeah, it's definitely something that is still definitely, I think, taught and socialized for sure. Um, but that also brings up the, I think it's a season three episode where Whitley. Needs to take a math class Mm. In, in order to graduate. And she has been avoiding the math department and trying not to do this.
Ivanna: And Colonel, Colonel Taylor, a k a Dr. War, he's like the scary math, uh, professor head of the department, um, is basically helping her overcome her fear of math and of asking for help. Mm-hmm. And they have a whole conversation where, He's like, what? You know, like, you don't ask for help. You're not gonna graduate
Ivanna: Yeah. We need to, you need to kind of come to terms with this. And she's like, I'm not supposed to need help. Mm-hmm. . Right? That is what she was, was taught of, you know, and he even asked her like, oh, what if your, you know, if you need to do your taxes or you need to, to figure out something. And she's like, my accountant will do that, but what if you need to check his numbers?
Ivanna: My, your my husband will do that. Yeah. Your husband's out of the. , I'll have my lawyer do it like . He is like, well you can't pay the lawyer cuz your accountant fleeced you because you don't understand the math . But basically ends up sort of pushing her that like, you can do this. Mm-hmm. , right? It is okay for you to ask for help.
Ivanna: Um, and I, I don't want such a, you know, smart young woman to fail and to flunk purely because she was taught to believe. , you know, it is bad to ask for help. Yeah. Or that she doesn't need math because she will have a man to do these things. Yeah.
Julia: And, and it's like, What's interesting about all of that too, and Colonel Taylor sort of championing her, championing her in that way.
Julia: On the other side of that coin, you have Dwayne's mom who thinks she's not good enough, isn't smart enough, isn't enough for her son, her chipmunk, and. We know that both can, not that she's not good enough for Duane mm-hmm. , but we've seen her kind of do these sort of things that be, could be qualified as being like a little flippant and air heady.
Julia: But at the end of the day, Whitley still is an intelligent woman and the expectations placed upon her are to just be a trophy. And I love that. Mm-hmm. , you're reminding all of us that Colonel Taylor's like, you're more than a trophy. Mm-hmm. .
Ivanna: Yeah. Because, and I think that is sort of the, the expectation or the assumption that she is fighting throughout mm-hmm.
Ivanna: which she, you know, she does play into, I think, a little bit. I think that is, but I also think that comes from being quote unquote very feminine. Yeah. And like leaning into that. Yeah. Um, whether her, you know, it was intentional for her or. . Yeah. Right. I think there is just the assumption. She's the pretty one.
Ivanna: Mm-hmm. , she's a pretty, very girly one, so therefore she is meant to be someone's
Julia: wife. Yeah. You know, that's how you gain the right kind of man. Mm-hmm. , that's how you get the right kind of level is by being perfectly polished. Mm-hmm. . We don't have enough time to go into all of the harm that causes when it comes to what we look like.
Julia: and the levels of success. Yes. , . That's not why we were here, but friends at home, please know that that is a thing. , a hundred percent do some Googling. Well, maybe Whitley's my favorite now that we've been talking about her
Ivanna: for an hour. , I don't think she cannot be because I think of, you know, she is very sweet and she is very caring.
Ivanna: Um, even if it doesn't always seem that way in the beginning, yeah, she can sometimes get very wrapped up. But I love just getting to watch her go through that personal evolution. Yeah. And really define who she is. as defined by herself and not by, you know, the men that she's around or by her mother or, yeah, whatever, like she gets to be.
Ivanna: and sort of a little bit of all of it. Mm-hmm. and a little bit of none of it.
Julia: Yeah. And just one thing, and she's perfectly timed too, because I really feel like between 1987 and 1992, there really was, and you know, and beyond 92, but for that timeframe that a different world existed, there really was that insurgent of women sort of rising up and being like, Hey, no.
Julia: we are shirking the expectations that are being placed on us for, you know, all these things that our mothers had to go through. That's not us. We're not doing that. Mm-hmm. , somebody brought to my attention the other day about how there's this trend on TikTok about how we had it, we had it so much better.
Julia: I used we in air quotes for those who can't see me at home. Why did we ever enter the workforce? Cuz we had it so much better being stay-at-home wives. And I was like, . Um, that's a trend. Uh,
Ivanna: I'm gonna go out on a limit soon. That's a white lady trend. Uhhuh , because black women were always in the workforce.
Julia: That's what I literally come back and like, my people were never allowed to be free like that. Okay. No.
Ivanna: It was actually illegal in some places for black women to not work, so mm-hmm. .
Julia: No. No. And two, it's a system that wasn't always great. Like what about the abusive situations, the emotional abuse, the physical abuse, the financial abuse.
Julia: Like both of my grandmothers, you know, one was born in nineteen twelve, one was born in 1926. Both of them always told me, have your own money. Mm-hmm. , they weren't in relationships that they didn't wanna be in. They loved their husbands, they were cared for. , they all, they still were very much like, have your own money.
Julia: Like go, go dig them up and sit and do that TikTok trend to them. You're gonna get smacked real quick. don't, don't dig them up. That was
Julia: But yeah, I think that is very, a, very much, very telling. I think too about the divide when it comes to what that era looked like for, um, people who weren't. . Mm-hmm. . And what leads that representation of like, we're not doing this anymore. We are moving on. Thank you.
Ivanna: And she does both, right? She's in the workforce and then she is also kind of not mm-hmm.
Ivanna: uh, not necessarily by choice. , um, have some unemployment difficulties, but even the idea that she would leave college and get a job mm-hmm. and like be excited about it, right? Yeah. Like she wanted to be an art buyer. Like that was something she really wanted. And, and to explore that, um, even though that wasn't necessarily what she.
Ivanna: Sent to college to do or encouraged to do outside of maybe that smaller social circle. Mm-hmm. of being in college. Mm-hmm.
Julia: man. The eighties and nineties were a great time for really strong female role models to help us learn and understand that we can stand on our own two feet. Yes, there are hurdles.
Julia: Yes. You might have these hurdles, don't worry. You will overcome these hurdles. But girl, you got this . Mm-hmm. , Ivan. Can you tell everyone at home where they can find you if they wanna keep up with you online and also tell us a little bit about what you do? Okay. I know. Big question . I can,
Ivanna: I can do that. Um, as you mentioned, I'm a life and leadership coach.
Ivanna: Um, so I work one-on-one with mostly women, but not exclusively. Um, Who are overwhelmed and unfulfilled, I help those women to, uh, ditch their shoulds, right? We wanna get rid of that, uh, to prioritize what it is that you actually want to be doing without the guilt and, um, So that you can wake up on Monday mornings and not dread them as
Julia: like, not be filled with existential
Ivanna: dread
Ivanna: Exactly. I want, I want women to be out here living lives that energize them and that they're excited about. Yeah. Uh, and so that is the work that I love to do is to connect one-on-one and let's figure out, you know, what is and what isn't working for you in your current setup, and how can we make it so that most, if not all of it, is working for.
Ivanna: Love that.
Julia: Tell everyone where they can find you.
Ivanna: Yeah, you can find me, uh, on my website, ivanna robinson.com or on Instagram Ivanna rundel world. Um, and feel free to sign out for my newsletter about once a month I come out with ramblings, uh, you know, interrogating norms, , gaining insights, and getting in inspired.
Ivanna: It's Ivan Three Eyes, so I would love to have
Julia: you all. I love that. And friends, we're gonna link everything in the show notes, so there's literally no excuse for you to not go and check out our website, follow her on Instagram and sign up for a newsletter. There's no excuse when it's in the show notes.
Julia: It's easy. Click show our, show our guests some love. Okay, ,
Ivanna: please.
Julia: I just wanna thank you so much for being here and taking the time today. I know you're in a different time zone than I am, so sometimes like and we had a time change, so that also throws things off too.
Ivanna: Well, I had to make sure I scheduled it for after the time change because Mexico and the US change a week apart.
Ivanna: So all of last week, you and I were, I guess one hour closer than normal . I didn't real,
Julia: okay, this is my naivete. This is how stupid I am about the world sometimes. I literally thought America was the only country that did time.
Ivanna: No America. Yeah, the US and Canada changed last week, but I think everybody else who does daylight savings changed the week before.
Julia: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I had no idea. I gotta get out of this town. I gotta travel the world.
Ivanna: Yeah. I can't, I can't live this city in Mexico. They just got rid of daylight savings. So we just changed the clocks back for the last
Julia: time forever. And let's, uh, you're gonna be in real time forever and I envy you for that.
Julia: my friend and I, cuz my friend and I were talking about this, it's like, because they, the progression of changing daylight savings in the US is. Over the last 15 years. It's getting later and later and earlier and earlier. And that makes me cranky. And a lot of people cranky, some people are like, let's live in daylight savings all the time because the sun.
Julia: And I'm like, yes and no, because the planet's getting hotter. So do we really want it to be 110 at 10 o'clock at night? Right. Um, With that said though, like there's a natural transition the planet goes through to get us a slowly acclimated to the fact that it'll be dark by noon and by starting Daylight SA ending savings in November, we go from it's dark in, it gets dark at seven to dark at noon.
Julia: In a day, so we're all immediately depressed because we have no more son, rather than the slow transition we're used to from childhood .
Ivanna: Right? Just let it happen. Mother nature
Julia: knows what she, she knows what she's doing. She knows what she's doing. Leave her alone. She is angry. We gotta do better. We gotta take C better care of her.
Ivanna: Yes.
Julia: Rant for another day, .
Ivanna: But thank you for having me. This was a wonderful
Julia: conversation. I'm so glad. You know, a lot of people are always like, I wanna talk about a different world, or I wanna come on and talk about the Cosby Show. I'm gonna tell you, I don't wanna talk about it with everybody because there are some things, or I'm just like you and I don't get to have that conversation.
Ivanna: I can understand that
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