She’s All That | 7
Show Notes:
She’s All That stars Freddie Prinze Jr., Rachel Leigh Cook, Matthew Lillard, and Paul Walker and as the NY Times puts it, “'She's All That': When 'Pygmalion' Meets MTV, the Bookworm Turns”. It’s senior year and Zack Silar, the most popular boy in school, finds himself dumped and feeling badly burned. His girlfriend Taylor has left him for reality TV heartthrob, Brock Hudson.
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The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: The Julia Washington
Guests: Carly Adams, Becca Montes
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Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous where we discuss pop culture through the lens of race or gender. And sometimes both. I'm your host, Julia. And on today's show, I'm discussing the 1999 team romcom. She's all that Carly and Becca are back. And it's about to get rowdy up with.
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Julia: She's all that starts. Freddie Prinze Jr. Rachel Lee cook, Matthew Lillard and Paul Walker. And as the New York times puts it, she has all that. When Pygmalion meets MTV, the bookworm turns. It's senior year and Zach Siler, the most popular boy in school finds himself dumped and feeling badly burned. His girlfriend.
Julia: Taylor has left him for a reality TV, heartthrob Brock Hudson. How can he seriously compete with that? As an attempt to prove he still has star power. He makes a bet with his friend, Dean that he can turn any girl in school into a prom queen. These zero in on Laney. Nerdy artsy, socially awkward around popular types, whose father is a poor man.
Julia: And brother has no concept of social structure. Here's the catch. Zach has a very short turnaround time to turn Laney into the queen. If you're familiar with the story of Pygmalion or its more modern iteration, my fair lady, it's easy to see the connection between the. But before we dive in, but the hello to our guests, Carly Adams and Becca Montez are back.
Julia: There's something about talking about high school movies that came out when I was in high school with people you actually went to high school with and I'm here for it. So pals, welcome
Becca: back. Super stoked to be here. Thanks again, decided to get rowdy,
Julia: rowdy.
Becca: It's like my JLL song. Let's get loud. That's good.
Becca: Yeah. I
Julia: mean, that's not hard. We, here we go. In 1999, variety trash to the film. Roger Ebert found it boring, but predictable and the New York times was fair, but disappointed in the movie variety specifically said while there are a few good jokes and sight gags along the way, the main impression left by she's all that is how numbingly consistent it.
Julia: Lacks of originality. Picks version of high school has nothing that would surprise Andy Hardy and its characters never begin to rise above the level of cartoons and stereotypes. So let's start at the very beginning. If you can remember all the way back to 1999, what were your overall impressions of this film when you first saw.
Carly: Okay. So when I first saw it, and again, this is not now because things have changed for me a little bit, but when I refer to
Julia: one time, so one
Carly: time when I first thought I remember thinking this was one of the best movies I've ever seen, I thought Friday prince Jr was amazing in this role. He's so. I thought he was just like the guy I loved the make-over at the time.
Carly: I thought it was just so fun. Um, and it was, it was just, yeah, I loved every single part and it was really interesting cause I hadn't seen this movie in a really long time. And when I watched it back, I was surprised at how different I felt go from.
Becca: So I remember in 1999, I. This will not be a surprise to Carly might be a surprise to Julia.
Becca: I was obsessed with Jonathan
Julia: Taylor, Thomas with Jonathan Taylor, Thomas.
Becca: No, no, his birthday
Carly: with a friend
Becca: birthday party and do
Julia: a
Becca: birthday party for him, blow out a cupcake for him and watch all of his movies, which at the time was just the lion king and men
Julia: of the house. Anyway, it's such a great movie
Becca: in the future years, he would be featured in that movie.
Becca: And Rachel Lee hook cook was in Tom and Huck. So part of me hated her. And then part of me loved her because I was like, you got to need to move Jonathan Taylor, Thomas. And then she was also in the babysitter's club, which I stand, I stand the babysitter's club, always. The fact that Rachel Lee cook was in this movie, in this movie as a lead role, as someone that people were interested in and like for us in high school, it was like, if you weren't blonde blue eyes
Julia: cheerleader, Forget about it.
Becca: So I was like, I'm Rachel Cook. I am the girl next door. I am brown hair, brown eyes. I don't paint my basement, but you know,
Julia: we can look past that. I was
Becca: so excited cause I was like, she's the underdog she's she is like, it was about her. He gets the hot guy. I just remember it being about her when I watched it.
Becca: And I never thought of like, His side of it. Until I rewatched
Julia: it. Yeah.
Becca: Oh, a hundred
Carly: percent. I never, I forgot about his whole, I need to pick a school. Yeah. And also the fact that he brought into all those specific schools at the time, that didn't mean much to me because I think I was just starting to apply to schools.
Carly: I was, I was firmly planning on going to a state school. I did not understand how competitive the Ivy league situation was and what it really takes to get in. So looking back at it now,
Becca: but it was still super competitive back then.
Carly: Yeah. I mean, I only knew one person in high school that I knew of who applied to Harvard and I was like, Very amazed at that they didn't get in, they were crushed, but the fact that they applied, I was like,
Becca: yeah, exactly.
Carly: I was like, I would, I will not get accepted to UC. It's not happening. I'm for sure. Going to a state school.
Becca: And I applied to four, I applied to one school and I got into the one school and I went to the one school for.
Julia: I didn't even apply. Yeah. I went, I was like MJC her. I come, even though I don't want to fucking be there, like pirates.
Julia: Yeah. And it's . And as I say, I apologize to the MJC staff and administration and everybody who might be affiliated with MJC. Who's going to hear this, but when you grow up in Modesto and you go from your high school to MJC, there's literally no difference in social status or structure. It was like, I went from a small pool to big pool where they tell you to act like an adult, but give you no tools.
Julia: Like
Becca: survive.
Julia: Yeah. So it was like, fuck this shit I'm out. After a year. I also love this movie. I was rewatching it in preparation for a conversation. And I like after like doing the research for this episode and reading. I was very much in the camp of like, yeah, fuck this make-over shit. And this is a terrible message.
Julia: Like after reading all of these modern day articles, and then I'm watching the movie and I was like, isn't pretty prince. So dreamy. I want Zach styler to notice me. He just got sucked back in to like being 15 and wanting somebody to find me adorable and lovely and, you know, fall in love with me with little to no effort at
Becca: all.
Becca: Also,
Carly: can we talk about. Pretty priests tuners, not that good
Julia: of an actor. Oh no,
Becca: it wasn't terrible. But I remembered as young Siler,
Julia: that's his role?
Carly: There's so many, like she calls him out first things and his reaction is just like,
Carly: and I'm like, what did I see in this guy
Becca: was like my seven year old. When I asked her she lies.
Julia: What's lying. I totally told the truth. That's fine. Cause like, if you think about it too, was he gonna know
Becca: what you did last summer? Yes.
Julia: Yeah. So like he, you know, I mean, I don't
Becca: know. He absolutely
Julia: was so like, you know, he's got all these nineties movies that are great, but then if you look at the trajectory of his career after, you know, he was in the Scooby doo movies, which he really didn't want to have to do, like, he really wasn't into the idea of doing them.
Julia: But then his wife convinced him. And we'll talk about who his wife is in a little bit. Don't give it away. Anybody, if you don't already know friends at home who his wife is, then you're going to have to wait. Um, and so like, you know, he just like he's. So I just think he's so handsome. And even now, when I went to their Instagram to look at them, I was like, this is the Mo there's such a beautiful couple.
Julia: I love that. They're still married. Like all these things. But like, I feel like Zach Siler is his role. Like his dad was a really good and talented. Like, I don't know if you've seen any of his dad's work from the tooth
Becca: so that he did, like, I do not remember his dad at the time. Like when I rebrand some of you guys like, wait, that's his dad, because he's, he's from Puerto
Julia: Rican.
Julia: Isn't his dad Porter. Yeah.
Julia: Freddie prince Puerto Rican. And I'm talking about real life
Becca: real life. Oh yeah. I thought you were talking about his dad,
Julia: not his dad in the movie. Yeah, it was dad in real
Becca: life. I think his dad was a talented actor. Yeah.
Julia: He was one of the first Latinos, Latinos to have a TV show where he
Becca: was the lead character.
Becca: Like that's
Julia: a huge deal in media. And so I kind of fell down the rabbit hole a little bit too, and I didn't realize that Freddy. Like also comes from mixed race heritage. Like one of his, I don't know if it's his parent or a grandparent is white and like, so there, but still he was raised with the culture and experience.
Julia: Um, but still, you know, it's like, but you look at Freddie Prinze and you would never know that boy came from anybody brown. Right. Which isn't a bad thing. I'm just saying genetics.
Becca: Genetics is funky face. Got dark for his dad. Yeah, it did
Julia: get dark for his dad, but also when you w like I watched everything.
Julia: Uh, docu series that highlighted his dad a little bit. And it sounds like he got a lot, you know, it was hard for him in Hollywood being, um, a brown man in Hollywood, especially with the lead show. And so it sounds like, you know, um, he didn't have the support. He probably should have had that actors today would have going through some of the stuff that Hollywood put him through his dad.
Becca: His mom was Puerto Rican and that's
Julia: right. I thought it was Puerto Rican. Yeah. So he's German,
Becca: Puerto Rico. Yeah. I don't know where prince came from.
Julia: Prince is some I'm sure if you weave fall down the, you know, history of what that got more from, it'd be really interesting, but we don't have that kind of
Becca: time.
Julia: But as to reads as a community on Instagram highlighting what people in the city of Modesto, California are reading. If you want book recommendations, or if you live in the city of Modesto, follow Modesto reads and use the hashtag Modesto reads.
Becca: And now here we go to the.
Julia: The LA times review was a little bit more favorable than most writing the film even goes deeper to reveal that the childlike cruelty that persists in what are after all young adults reflects a persistent insecurity. Even within the most popular students in short she's, all that offers unexpected debt.
Julia: But the film 20 years later received some major criticism, several critics make calls of misogyny and fat shaming and casual sexual harassment of Laney and white privilege of many of the characters, the dance performance it's even called. Unbelievable. I want to dive into a few of these while I love dissecting things of pop cultures past.
Julia: I think sometimes what happens is we lose the cultural context of the time and there's a fine line with most of it. Some people are straight black and white about. New and analysis as well in 1913, George Bernard Shaw Pygmalion debuted in London. And it is the story of two men. One of whom is a scientist.
Julia: Make a bet that Henry Higgins can take a Cockney speaking woman and, and turn her into poised. Upper-class sounding human. I mentioned earlier, the MTV describes this film as Pygmalion meets MTV, which is a very 1990s, especially when you consider the adaptations of Shakespeare that took place in the 19.
Julia: And make-over movies were huge in the nineties. Never been kissed, clueless, bring it on, or just a few to name the makeover is a tried and true theme. Is it a dangerous and harmful trope? Because a lot of these critics, when I was doing, you know, More recent article reading. We're really hounding about how this is a harmful trope and this is very dangerous and why west, we make over somebody to be beautiful.
Julia: And there's an extent to that. I agree. Um, but when I rewatched the film, I was like, I thought having been the generation that this film was targeted to, I didn't feel the pull of this is a dangerous trope. I mean, maybe I'm alone in that. I don't know.
Becca: No, I don't think it wasn't like, so if we're comparing it, like you said, like two clueless include list share totally changes.
Becca: How. Ty, Ty, she totally changes how Titus she adjusts, how she talks to you, just how she dresses. She adjusts her, everything, everything he does is like, she completely changes her as
Julia: a person. Whereas I think that in this movie, it's, uh, like
Becca: it started out very innocent and was like, you have beautiful eyes.
Becca: Why don't you wear contacts? And she's like, I have them, but I don't like putting her fingers in. And so like it's literally a haircut and contacts and that's it. She doesn't change her. And makeup to either. Yeah. And make it, but later on, after she's made over,
Julia: she's still back in her original clothing.
Julia: She's wearing her original
Becca: clothing. She's still wearing her pulled back in a ponytail. Like, yeah, she got dressed up for prom, but everybody dresses different for prom. Like
Carly: the date that she got the make-over for, she got that, that dress. It's like a skimpy dress that she's not used
Julia: to, but I didn't think that
Becca: it was.
Becca: He wasn't trying to make her over as a person. I feel like the other make-overs it was like, no, like you weren't very person, like you're not good enough. How you look you're out and going to how you actually, you're not good enough. Like your friends aren't good enough for you. Like isn't good enough.
Becca: This was very much. Let's just elevate her. Like, I felt like it was more elevated because
Julia: there's a point where too, like, we all don't look the same, like we did in high school. So we, everyone eventually goes through some version, their version of a glow up. Right. Like if I still look like I did, when I was in high school, I would either have a shaved head right now, or I'd have bleached blonde hair.
Julia: And I would still have massively huge eyebrows, which I probably shouldn't have to wisdom as much as I did in 2000. Uh, you know, I didn't know any better at the time and any eyebrows were in, but you know, I'm to be back also, but I'm not joining that. Yeah. I'm not training that movement, but there's an element too, I think with the makeover where it's like, he makes her over for the party, you know, but then the rest of the movie, she's still in her grubby artsy clothes for the most part,
Carly: the job.
Carly: Falafel hut,
Julia: falafel hat. Can you supersize my balls please?
Becca: Uh, I mean, her friend is still the dude from the mighty ducks slash uh, Fulton, but also he's from, um, forgetting that the Netflix superhero. The one who's blind. I closed
Julia: my eyes for that
Becca: Daredevil. Yeah. He plays Derek Douglas, best friends, Bobby Nelson.
Becca: Um, yeah, like I just like that, like, and her best friend, like she stays with her best friend the whole time. Like, yeah, I did like
Carly: that. There wasn't this thing where she got, you know, a lot of movies, like they get, they get conceded and then, you know, changes. He's like, you've changed. Like there wasn't that aspect, which is, yeah.
Julia: And I felt so I didn't, I
Becca: didn't mind the, the make over aspect of it. Cause like, I think all of us can relate to, Hey, I am going out tonight and I want to look a little bit different and I want to look a little bit cute.
Julia: Yeah. And like, so like her Mo in the movie, her mom's dead. And so she doesn't have the female influence that she would have had it for mama's alive. I'm not saying my mom was very much. My mom was not a girly girl. I learned how to do makeup from the makeup counter. I learned how, like there's certain girly girl things that I did not learn from my mother, because that's not who she is.
Julia: So I could relate to Laney in the sense of like, like Abby's the one who tweezed my eyebrows. Cause she's like, girl, you gotta do something with that caterpillar on your face. But you know, my mom's not going to think that way. Right? Like, so. This component to Laney's make-over situation that I related to because somebody else came to me and was like, you're beautiful.
Julia: Let's enhance that.
Becca: Let's elevate that,
Carly: that being said, I do really appreciate the war modern. Um, Trend of in movies, like less make-overs and more really celebrating people's existing differences. I think that that trend is probably more here to stay. And I think that that's healthier for kids these, this age, um, because there's enough messages out there telling us, like, I mean, you're all right, but like maybe you should.
Carly: Lose a few pounds or wear something different or get some makeup or do your hair more. And I think, um, having that pressure to spend so much time on appearances can really, I mean, I think we're just seeing a lot of like mental health issues going on with teens these days. And so messages that are more celebratory for how you are currently.
Carly: I just think at the end of the day, we're probably going to be better
Julia: overall. It's definitely a, I agree it well, it's like in princess diaries where, you know, uh, Mia has super curly hair, but they straighten it. Like that always bothered me because I'm a curly haired girl who doesn't, who didn't know how to do her curly hair.
Julia: So when it comes to criticizing make-over movies, I'm always like, don't take the girl who curly girl's hair and make it straight. Show her how to do her curly hair. That's a makeover, you know, that's helping you enhance what God gave you. If you
Becca: believe in God, what genetic TV view.
Becca: Yeah.
Julia: Okay. Let's talk misogyny. Yeah. Favorite topic. It's the best. The whole premise of the movie is queued up by the bet between Zach and Dean turning any ho-hum girl into the next prom queen. He is the star of the school and his star power will. Any girl, that's the attitude. The girl they're looking for must fit a very specific standard that Zach and Dean have deemed necessary for success.
Julia: They are establishing the beauty standard to elevate. They are walking through the corridor at school, offering opinions as to why these girls, they walked by aren't the right fit. And recent critics suggest there is a cruelness to this. But at 15, I saw it how our male friends would have been talking about other girls in school and would have probably gone how they would have handled that scenario.
Julia: So watching this scene now, how does it land for you?
Carly: I'm going to be honest. I didn't see any difference. Between, I didn't necessarily see as misogyny only because I just kept complaining, pairing it to the clueless. Um, you know, make-over and nobody was having these types of issues with, um, with Cher and Stacey Dash's character, you know, doing a makeover.
Carly: And I know it wasn't picking someone from a crowd. But it was just like, oh, maybe we can make her a project. And I just, I didn't see any differences. So I guess in my mind, I didn't see it as necessarily misogyny, even though I know it can be taken that way.
Becca: Yeah. I just thought that it was, I mean, I don't think it was best for necessarily misogyny, but I do think that it was perpetuating like certain.
Becca: Aspects of massaging, like men dictate. What's pretty, they can dictate what's desirable men dictate, but it was like just the way that they went through. And I was like, no, she's too fat. No she's too. This no she's too bad. And it was just like judging people just for the outward appearance to spell icky.
Becca: That's like very much high school.
Julia: Yeah.
Becca: And like, at least in that scene, they said it out loud, like almost to their face in front of them. It wasn't like they commented on their Instagram about it.
Julia: Or like, you know, posted something on Snapchat, said something about it, derogatory about them and they don't even know.
Julia: So
Becca: I think like it's, it's hard because like it's very much, like they knew. What would be hot? Like Rachel
Julia: Cook does
Becca: fall into like thin pretty.
Julia: Yeah, she's pretty with glasses and a Yuna brow. Like
Becca: it was like the slightest
Julia: of that. It was very hard to see the unibrow, but you know, the whole, I guess, to back in 1999 watching it, it was like, well, I think she's pretty, I don't understand why, you know, she was picked as the one.
Julia: Yeah, exactly like that. Exactly.
Becca: But it was just something where it's like, did I think that it was genetic? Not necessarily do I think that it was kicky? Absolutely. Did I think that it was relatable even more? Absolutely. And in this day and age we do the same exact thing. I mean, I don't cause I'm married,
Julia: but.
Julia: I mean, I do. Cause I'm dating I'm in the dating swiping, right. Or you swipe,
Becca: swipe, swipe, and it's like, why did you swipe? Well, they're not my type. How do you
Julia: know? They're not there? I mean, it's true. It's like, literally like how do I not, how do I know they're not my type until,
Carly: but it's like, you're taking just a couple of facts and making it.
Carly: Just decision. Like it's not that like women don't do it too. I mean, if any of us would have sat around on a friend's Bumble account and, uh, and help them swipe and write messages I'm in and been like, let's play Bumble. I'm just like, go for it. I mean, that's
Becca: yeah. I think men do it, but like this movie kind of celebrated it in a way.
Carly: Becca, you're going to have you were there for this. So, and it happened at about the same time this movie came out, but do you remember us going to the mall one time? And these guys had signs that were like the numbers, like you would get graded and as girls walked by, they'd be like seven. Eight nine. Oh my
Julia: God.
Julia: And they were just, it was like
Carly: a little alcove with some chairs. And like, as people like walked by, they were like, Macy's
Becca: upstairs. And we were, and
Carly: I, at the time I was just like, oh my God. Like, and like, thought it was like so silly and looking back, I'm like, wow, that's crazy.
Becca: Well, it was, it was like, what was the name of that website?
Becca: Where it was like hot or not?
Becca: You got to get a seven, at least, at
Julia: least. Yeah. And it's so interesting to me because like, when I think back about, on our experiences in high school and granted it was, you know, this is 1999, early two thousands, our male friends. And this is more specifically for Carly because she knows some of the people I'm referring to literally had conversations like this.
Julia: Like I have very, I have residual. Effects from some of the statements that they would make about girls. When we were in high school, like things that I was like, I'm never going to do that because I've heard the way they talk about it when the girl is not around and that's bad. Right. We can all agree.
Julia: That's bad. But at the same time, like when you're 15 with, I'm not, I'm not justifying their actions and behaviors. That's not what this is. This is me saying. 1999 is a very different world than 2019. And, uh, When you grew up with only knowing things like she's all that never been kissed, 16 candles, you know, et cetera, you don't necessarily understand that.
Julia: There's another way because no, one's having those con we did not have these conversations. Like we weren't talking about. The whole concept of like, oh, you're laughing at his jokes all the time. So you must like him. Like that was the mentality, right? Like it had nothing to do with like, no, maybe I just thought he was funny and I don't actually like him kind of shit.
Julia: So I just laughed because
Becca: if I didn't laugh and people would look at
Julia: me weird. Yeah. So I struggle a little bit. Yeah. So I struggle a little bit because I'm just kinda like, you know, when you look at Pygmalion specifically, it's the same exact things. So in terms of an adaptation, a modern retelling of something that happened, you know, 90 years prior, they did a pretty good job and like capturing the essence.
Julia: But when you like, well, we'll talk about all that later. So, I dunno, I do think that, you know, there's some stuff in there where I'm just like, yeah, that borders on misogyny, but there's that, you know, varying degrees. And we talked about that. There's, you know, there's like, it's just like, it's like a sliding scale.
Julia: It's not black and white in my mind.
Becca: He
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Becca: H.
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Julia: In 2021, Netflix did over modern remake called he's all that. And in my opinion, it was trash. It felt cheesy and didn't have the same magic as its make-over movie predecessors. Aside from that, the general consensus is that she's all. Movie has not aged well, and I do want to preface this. I will die on this hill.
Julia: And I've said this multiple times on the show, when you make a remake of adaptation, you're going to fail. It's just going to fail because you're getting away from the root of the themes and the con in the, in the story with that said, what's your viewpoint in the, has this movie aged well conversation.
Becca: Okay.
Becca: Yes. And no, I mean, I think that if this movie was
Julia: made like this
Becca: year, it would like
Julia: be the most strange movie on Netflix, which they tried to do with all that.
Becca: But the thing is, is like, they tried to, like you said, they tried to remake everything. Like if the original was put out right now, and instead of being.
Becca: Like they tried and said making it prom queen, they try
Julia: to like turn someone into an influencer. Like something like when all that was right. They tried to turn them into like popular influencers did not even watch it. I was so excited. And then I watched, I hate, I ended up hate watching even down to the dance scene.
Julia: They had a choreograph dancing at the sh at the prom. And I was like, this dancing is trash. I mean, unless it's
Becca: the Cupid
Julia: shuffle in any other bands.
Carly: I found out fun fact about the movie that wasn't in the original script, but they want it to link than the movie by a couple minutes. So it was like a last minute.
Julia: Oh, I love that. And usher was also under utilized. We didn't mention that. The thing about some of the critics about the original with the dancing being unrealistic. Did you not watch any movie from the nineties? Like every high school movie has a theme.
Becca: Like this is what I loved that back in 10 things I hate about you.
Becca: They had like a live band at prom.
Becca: Who's going to be the band at prom who was like an actual, real band and like holistically, like our bands at high school prom sucked, but lots of, we just had a DJ, but yeah.
Julia: Yeah into the conversation about if this movie aged? Well,
Becca: I don't think it necessarily aged well, but I think the premise of the movie is very much timeless.
Julia: I think the execution,
Becca: if done today, wouldn't wouldn't stand, but certain aspects of it.
Julia: I,
Becca: I read the one thing I did. I like tried to look at it through like the scope of diversity. I always try and be that I'm like, how diverse was this movie? Like, had had a fairly diverse task, but just
like
Becca: the other movie is very much black and white.
Becca: Like where, where
Julia: are other elements? The one thing that I
Becca: noticed this time that I never noticed before is Kieran. Culkin is. Hearing aids. And apparently he doesn't understand why he was doing it. Yeah.
Julia: It was just like part of his
Becca: like costume. And it was like, I don't, I don't need a backstory about a disability.
Becca: Like that's, I'm not, I'm not here to be like, enable us, like, tell me, tell me about your trauma kind of thing. Like, I don't need to know why you have hearing aids. I appreciated it. I just thought that it was kind of like.
Julia: Yeah. I also appreciated it cause I felt like it was like, Hey, because we had a kid in school. If I remember correctly who were hearing aids. So it didn't seem unusual to me to see like a younger person with hearing aids. My husband, I was hearing aids. Like
Becca: he wore hearing aids when he was younger too. Um, it's I just liked that that was normalized,
Julia: but like I thought that
Becca: sort of diversity was good.
Becca: Um, I do think that as far as aging wealth, it was executed a little differently. It would work these.
Julia: But if they stay true to the themes of Pygmalion?
Becca: Yes.
Carly: Well, and I found like in the movie, because the majority of the cast was like the popular crowd, but there were a lot of, it seemed like there were a lot of unwritten rules in that crowd.
Carly: And like, you had to do certain things to fit in. And because we were mostly seeing the high school lens through those folks, it seemed like most people weren't necessarily. Completely themselves. They were like trying to stay in this inner circle and it was a status symbol. So I found it interesting.
Carly: Cause the only characters who were really truly like themselves and that was enough was Jesse and McKenzie. They were super under, I mean, I thought it was really cute how they kind of like, it's implied. They're like getting together to like each other, but they were a little, uh, Under utilized. And I think if it was 20, 22, I feel like we would have seen more characters like that, where, who you are is just celebrated for being yourself.
Carly: Um, but yeah, there would be more diversity too,
Julia: which I think. You make a good point though, about how like the Fort it's a forced look. The lens that we're looking through is through a very specific, popular crowd. This is what we're trying to see. Um, and I wonder if that's part of the flaws with some of the remakes that are happening when the remakes don't land.
Julia: Well, because they're. Pull back and broaden the lens, which you don't do necessarily in storytelling, right? Like there's the overall first tree. And then you get little scopes in within that as well. So especially when you're doing like a film or something that's episodic. And when you try to pull it back and make it more broad, it doesn't like you.
Julia: You can have an ensemble, but the ensemble still has focuses that they're working through. If that makes sense. Yeah. And we're going to say, oh, I was going to say the
Becca: one thing, like speaking on what Carly said that like, there are only certain
Julia: characters that were treated themselves in the movie. I appreciated
Becca: that there were mean girls in every group.
Becca: Like the very beginning of the movie, they open up.
Julia: Um, you know, we think that
Becca: your artwork is amazing.
Julia: Um, but like true artists aren't appreciated until they promote it post
Becca: humorously. And that drive from me, not posthumously.
Julia: Um, but they're like, so we think you should kill yourself.
Becca: And like, just that, like that.
Becca: Could you imagine, number one, if a kid actually said that to another kid in a classroom,
Julia: they would not fly. Yeah,
Becca: they would,
Julia: they'd be one. There was that girl who was put on trial because her, she told her boyfriend to take his own life and he did. And so they were holding her responsible. So it's totally a different world.
Becca: It's a different world. And I
Carly: like dove into that case, but it wasn't just like one comment. It was like,
Becca: Yeah,
Carly: it was crazy. But anyway, I digress because that's
Becca: its own thing, but like those girls were supposedly like in, in the same crowd is leaning. Even within that same crowd, there's a hierarchy.
Julia: There was
Becca: still a hierarchy.
Becca: She's like, I'm going to an art school and your dad cleans.
Julia: Kind of just like, it was such shitty when they kept doing the whole thing of like your dad's my pool cleaner and it's like a
Becca: million dollar house, so he's doing fine.
Julia: But yeah, like her dad runs a successful business. Like that's more than what a lot of people can say exactly.
Julia: But yeah, I
Becca: just think as far as like, aged, well, I think that like, it's definitely still with.
Julia: Yeah, I think that in my, in my opinion, I'm skewed because I w again, I was like, I want a Zach Siler to fall in love with me with very little effort, like look at my Instagram and see how adorable I am and just be like, I love that girl.
Julia: And also be like all the things that I need in a man, not healthy, not healthy. Um, but I think, you know, If you're looking at it, if your experience isn't similar to ours and you're looking at it today and you're not watching it with like any sort of preface and you're like 16 and your mom's like, Hey, mom's watching this movie and there's no preface about like context.
Julia: I think it would be very shocking for some people because, you know, we just don't make movies like that anymore. Yeah. Did you
Becca: watch it when your kid. I be like, have you seen it before?
Julia: I don't think you'd seen it before. It was like, we went through a phase where it's like, you have to watch all these movies that I watched in high school, because this will explain me so well to you.
Becca: I need you to know me and now I
Julia: can't remember. But when I said I was like, oh, I'm going to rewatch these for a couple of episodes of the show. He was like, oh yeah, I'll sit through them with you. So like that tells me that he, you know, he didn't hate them. Yeah.
Becca: I would just be interested to know. What a teenager these days actually thinks.
Becca: So these memories that like, we really, really liked
Julia: because it was so defining. Yeah. It's defining for our generation. Like that was freshmen like fresh, I don't know. Yeah. She's all that had me thinking that one day a hot preppy Americana boy would see past my quirks and snort laughing and just fall deeply and madly in high school.
Julia: Love with me. I am sad to report that never happened though. This explains why so many of my short stories have this sort of theme to it. Not. The makeover thing, but like the innocence of love and high school kind of shit. I want to thank my guests for joining me today. They will be back to discuss one more flick that was released during our high school years.
Julia: Carly, Becca, thank you so much for joining me today. Can you tell everybody where they can find you if they want to keep up with you?
Carly: Sure. Um, you want home organization tips? That's mostly what I post about and you can follow me on Instagram. At tidy revival or see me on my site at tidy revival dot,
Becca: and you can catch me on Twitter at PECA Montez.
Becca: It's a lot of mom content. So, you know, I hope you enjoy that. We're here
Julia: for the bottom. And if you love our show and want to support it, there's a few ways you can do that. Become a supporter on Patrion for $10 a month and receive full bonus ad-free episodes. You can write a review or rate the show wherever you find your podcasts, or you can find us on Instagram and give us a follow, share our video clips with your friends, or just generally love.
Julia: And like all of our posts, we are on IAG as pop culture makes. Pop culture makes me jealous as written, edited, and produced by me, Julia Washington. Thanks for tuning in and y'all, we'll talk to you next time.
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