Romeo & Juliet | 10
Show Notes:
Baz Lurhman's Romeo and Juliet turns 25!
The film was released on November 1, 1996, starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Danes as the title characters. The film grossed over 147 million dollars. And all these years later it's still relevant.
My guest Melissa and I dive discuss whether or not this tale is timeless, were the critic's assessment of the time correct in calling this Romeo & Juliet for the MTV generation, and how it impacted our own views of the world and Shakespeare.
Let's Get Social
The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous. And I'm your host, Julia. And on today's show, Melissa is back and we are talking about Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet.
The film was released on November 1st, 1996, staring Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Danes as the title characters. The film grossed over $147 million. At the time, the Hollywood Reporter wrote, "A clever and well-executed reworking of the timeless Elizabethan tragedy Baz Luhrmann's followup to his widely admired, Strictly Ballroom won't replace other top cinematic versions of the same story, the Oscar winning musical West Side Story.
Franco Zepheralli's exquisite traditional take, but the young target audience of this series should find this one tough to resist". In a 1996 review of the film, Roger Ebert stated, "The desperation with which it tries to update the play and make it relevant is greatly depressing. In one grand, but doomed gesture writer, director Baz Luhrmann has made a film that a. Will dismay any lover of Shakespeare and B. bore anyone lured into the theater by promise of gang wars, MTV style. This production was a very bad idea." Since then the reception of the film has been mixed. Some reviewers on Rotten Tomatoes issued praise while others ,film critics associated with prominent publications, haven't been so kind. One rotten tomato user said, "Romeo and Juliet is stunningly detailed, perfectly cast, fun fueled immersive experience. A true love letter to one of the best movies of the nineties. This event is an absolute must for fans. Get ready for the party of the summer."
While another stated, "A slick blast of decadence, the kind of violent swanked trash music video that may make you feel like reaching for the remote control."
Melissa is back to discuss. Welcome back, Melissa.
Melissa: Hey Julia .
Julia: Okay. First let's dive into a recap of the movie. So for those who maybe haven't seen it yet, or aren't familiar. And who better than the Bard himself to explain. Two households, both alike in dignity, in fair Verona, where we lay our scene. From ancient grudge break to new mutiny, where civil blood makes civil hands, unclean. From forth the fatal loins of these two foes, a pair of star crossed lovers take their life.
And then another iteration from IMD B. For those of you who may not be super obsessed with Shakespeare, here we go. "The classic story of Romeo and Juliet set in a modern day city of Verona beach, the Montague's and Capulets are two feuding families who children meet and fall in love. They have to hide they're left from the world because they know that their parents will not allow them to be together. There are obstacles on the way like Juliet's cousin Tybalt and Romeo's friend Mercucio and many fights, but although it is set in modern times, it is still the same timeless story of the star cross lovers.
All right, Melissa, we're going to get into it. First question. Do you agree with the positive rotten tomato reviewer or the negative and why?
Melissa: Oh, so all right. First of all,
Julia: let's get into it.
Melissa: Like one of my, this is like one of my favorites, so I don't agree with that with that negative review. I think that negative review is garbage. I think nicely, respectfully garbage. Um, I, and part of it is, so I'm a big Shakespeare fan I've I've, uh, done Romeo and Juliet twice. Um, I've played the nurse and then I, I helped stage manage it at one point in time. So I know this play really well. Um, I thought that this was a great rendition of it, and I think that pretty much everything. And I don't really know why he hates it as much as he does. I understand not liking taking Shakespeare and putting it into a different, um, a different time period. A lot of people don't like when that happens, but that's kind of the point of Shakespeare. So if you don't like when that happens, then sucks for you.
Julia: Yeah. There's so many different types of, first of all, I also, I disagree with the negative reviewer. I don't think it's a swank trash music video. I think that's a motivator. And I do think that what is beautiful about Shakespeare is all the adaptations that have come since then, right? Like the, like the, um, who was it that I literally just read it?
Oh, like when, um, the Hollywood, Hollywood Reporter comments that, you know, West Side Story is a re you know, re-imagining, and that movie is beautiful, which it also gets to revamp coming up in December, I believe. Um, but it's like, how could you, how could you ex you can't sure be a traditionalist. But also, we wouldn't have 10 things I Hate About You. We wouldn't have Kiss me, Kate, which I understood. They're all Taming of the Shrew adaptations, but still like we wouldn't have West Side Story.
Melissa: It's fine. It's fine. To not like the idea of old English of traditional Shakespeare set in the nineties. I okay. Sure. Whatever the language doesn't match up. And it's a little bit obscure for some people, especially if you aren't very familiar with Shakespeare. However, if you know the story, you know that this story is a timeless story. It can go in any timeline because it's about young love. That turns into tragedy because when you are in love, when you are 14 years old, 13, 14 years old, and then that love goes away.
It is heartbreakingly tragic. And you feel like you're going to die even though that's not true, but you do feel, you do feel that the stating it's devastating and Shakespeare brought that feeling that we kind of make fun of. As, you know, as adults, we kind of make fun of teenagers for feeling that way and being so overdramatic about their first boyfriends and first about their first bake breakups and all of those things. But it is detrimental at that time. And, and at this point in time, when Shakespeare did write Romeo and Juliet people didn't have the longevity that we do now. So being in love at 13 and 14 years old was, was the epitome of love. That was, you know, that was kind of your peak, right? Cuz you're gonna die at thirty.
Julia: Yeah. And, and for, for me this film, actually, I mean, I mean, I knew that we've had, we had Shakespeare in the house, my mom and dad met in theater. Um, but for me, this really did sort of open my eyes to something other than my parents Shakespeare. And so this idea that you're rebranding something to catch a new audience that maybe wouldn't have explored Shakespeare, I think is a really good strategic move because he's in every English course. I've got two degrees out of English departments.
Shakespeare is the gold standard. If you're writing a play, he's the gold standard when it comes to storytelling. So, but the language that he uses is so outdated that this is giving people an opportunity who maybe can't relate to the, these and thous and the way that they speak to each other can now sort of see themselves in that story.
Melissa: Well, not only that, and then it brings context. It does bring correct context to what Shakespeare is saying. So even though you might not like maybe in high school, there have been people that have read Romeo and Juliet and they, they understand it. They get the gist of the story, but they don't fully understand it.
Right. And then they see, um, this rendition of Romeo and Juliet that is updated and revamped and kind of. Yeah, it's kind of cool. And it's really flashy and it's really action packed and that is super accurate to Romeo and Juliet, by the way, it is not boring. It is filled with action and death and murder and just frickin craziness. Um, and so it gives you. Uh, a good context for people to be able to be like, oh, oh, that's what we're talking about. Oh,
okay.
Julia: Yeah. In high school we studied Shakespeare and they showed us the Franco Zepherelli's Romeo and Juliet because the one from Baz Luhrmann was too risky. But I tell you what, yes, it's a beautiful, beautifully done rendition, but it's boring as fuck because we're not, we're not, we weren't the generation who could sit through it, you know? So I'm like it's 1999 now I'm 15. I'm not, I'm not into this particular rendition as an adult. I can totally appreciate Zepherelli's version completely on a different level. But at 15 guys, what are you doing? Don't do that high school kids.
Melissa: And also, it's not like Shakespeare puts in emotional stage directions for his actors, for these characters, like other like others, um, playwrights do. Right. And so this can literally be, it is a, like a, like a blank check. Almost. You can do anything with it. You can set a Shakespeare play in any timeline in any time period. And the story will hold true every single time.
Julia: Yeah. You're, you're absolutely right. And I think that's what's, and I'm not necessarily in the camp that Shakespeare is the gold standard personally, because of all the English classes I've taken, who were like, this is the golden God.
I'm just like, I get it. Another white guy is the golden God thanks. But, but it, I, I appreciate how there's so much room for interpretation. In his style. So that way you can sort of bring it and keep it current and keep the, whatever the tone is at the time you can bring it in. And it's still works.
Melissa: So like we were watching it last year. I was rewatching it last night with my husband. And, um, and I was just like, you know what I love about this. And like, so you, you did an episode on Gilmore girls, right? So I know that you're going to understand what I'm about to say, uh, in Gilmore Girls and I've leased season two when Logan and, uh, when Rory's is at Chilton, uh, and they do, they do the, they do Romeo and Juliet, right? At Chilton. They have them pick a scene from a Shakespeare play and put it in a different time period and try and Paris totally messes it up and puts it in the Renaissance because she's paris and whatever she thinks she's right, because she's Paris. But, um, I loved that because it reminded me of that.
Right. You're like, okay, this would be like a high school production. Okay. I got, I got Romeo and Juliet and then they picked out of another hat. They got the nineties,
Julia: right. Smash it. Yeah, I do. I did too. Okay. So let's talk about the cast and characters. You know, this film is 1996, so it's the early days of Claire Danes and Leonardo DiCaprio's acting careers.
My So Called Life had just ended, which was Claire Dane's TV show. And if listeners, you haven't seen that show, it is on Hulu. It's owned by ABC. So get your butts over there to watch it. And my first encounter with Leo was Growing Pains, which was like, oh, such a great show, starting Kirk, Cameron, but we don't need to talk about him.
The rest of the cast, however, was star-studded for its time. So to name a few, we have John Leguizamo, Paul Rudd, and this is post Clueless. Paul Sorvino, Ben Dennehy, Christina Pickles. For those of you who may not know who that is, she was Ross and Rachel's mom on Friends and Jamie Kennedy. That's just to name a few.
So with this newer interpretation, are these updated versions relatable for the time? And do they hold up? And were they appropriately cast?
Melissa: I mean, yes, the, my answer is I think that. Perfectly cast, perfectly cast with the exception that I would like to see more color in it.
Julia: Yeah. You know what interesting. So the first time I watched it, it probably was the first time I saw a black man be such a crucial character. And given how young I was, when the film was released, I was 12. Um, that's kind of, you know, at the time I don't really think about it, but now in hindsight, as I reflect on what I've seen, I think, oh, I was drawn to Mercucio his care, his freeness, his fluidness, which we didn't call it fluid back then his, his just he's oozing sexuality, but it's not in a grotesque or obscene way, or at least I don't think it's obscene.
People might disagree with me with that on that. And I thought he did such a, the actor did such a great job as Mercucio. He was beautiful without being arrogant. And just had this. You could tell, you could see it in hi face that he loved Romeo so much. I also thought John Leguizamo was sexy as fuck.
Melissa: I mean fair. Yes. 100% agree there. Mercucio is my he's my favorite character, especially the model, his monologue.
Julia: Oh, he's so good. It was so good. I cried again. I watched it, yes. Yeah. Two days ago to prepare for our conversation and I got chills just emotional.
Melissa: And it's just, it's such a beautiful rendition of that monologue that isn't sometimes Mercucio is kind of whiny.
Julia: Yeah.
Melissa: Sometimes he's played kind of whiny.
Julia: And I don't know. I understand if that's a direction from, you know, a director or if the actor thinks that that's what needs to be done, but it doesn't need to be done because he's. The best friend who has this undying love and just wants to, he just wants what's best for his best friend.
And this actor did such a great job at portraying that and embodied embodying that.
Melissa: He embodied the desperation that he needed to have to want to want something for his friend. And I think that that is a, that is something very hard to portray, um, wanting something so badly for your friend, w like not wanting to lose a very close relationship, um, to something else.
And mark fuchsia does such a great job in his like, oh my God, he's I love his rendition of that model on. It's just amazing. And then I also love the, where they do it, how they do it on the stage, and he's doing the monologue on the stage. And I just love how much we go on the stage. I know we'll talk about that
later, but like, oh, I just. He's probably my favorite character. Um, besides Leonardo DiCaprio being cast as Romeo, because he's just such a, he is, he's a Romeo.
Julia: And you know what? I had the biggest crush on him. I had sneakily watched, I think, do what? Getting skill Bert, what eating, What's Eating Gilbert Grape. Did that come up for Romeo and Juliet? I feel like that was 94. And so I had sneakily seen that at my aunt's house. Cause she let me watch PG 13 movies, even though I wasn't allowed to. And I just, he did such a great movie job in that movie. And then. Again, Growing Pains. He was this little skinny kid and I just had the, I mean, who didn't have a crush on? Who doesn't have a crush on Leo didn't have a crush.
Melissa: I had. Okay. Your remember do you remember when they used to make those little booklets, like little, little books about the celebrity. Okay. I used to have one about Leonardo Dicaprio I also have britney Spears too. I had that. I had
Julia: That's awesome. I love catch-up.
Okay. So admittedly, this is super embarrassing. I wrote a fan letter, cause remember in like teen beat or tiger beat or something like that, they would like list where you could send fan mail. So he's 10 years older than I am. So I'm literally 12 years old writing this letter using a different color crayon for each sentence, because I thought he would think that was so interesting.
Melissa: Obviously.
Julia: Obviously. And so I sent it off. Clearly I never got a response. Like that's like psycho killer shit.
Melissa: Leonardo DiCaprio is listening to this. I really hope that he's looking at your fan letter right now.
Julia: It's probably went into an incinerator, but you know,
right. The things you do and now it's like, you have to just tag them in Instagram. When you say stuff about celebrities, that's not the same as handwriting a letter right.
It's
not a script.
Melissa: So like my, my, my one casting issue with this movie though on it, if I can meet home, to be honest, I'm not a big Claire Danes fan.
Julia: So I was reading that she wasn't the original option. I read, I forget where I read it. I can't remember if it was, it was, I pulled up like 20 articles in preparation for this.
And one of the articles had reported that Natalie Portman had originally been cast. So Natalie Portman was born in 1982. This movie came out in 1996. The child was literally a child. She was 14. And so, but because how young she looked and Leo was his, so it's 1996. He was 20, 21, 22. It didn't look right. It looks like the re the reporter had said, it looks like, you know, he was molesting a child because she looked so young on screen. And then they had cast Sarah, Michelle Gellar, but she had scheduling conflict. So she passed and then they landed on Claire Danes. And Leo had said, and it was quoted. It's quoted, I think on IMDB.
Where he was like, she's the only one who looked me in the eyes. Like that's our girl, because apparently everyone else who came in and audition was trying to be super flirtatious with him and like all this stuff. And he, she was the only one who came in and was just like, took it very seriously. Um, the audition and playing the role.
And I thought that was really interesting because she's got sorta like coming off of my so-called life, where she was just this tortured confused 15 year old at the time. I didn't think anything of it, her being Juliet, I thought it was, she was beautiful and wonderful and all these things, you know, 25 years later, I'm watching it again.
And I'm like, she's grown a lot since that movie. And it'd be interesting to see her reprise that role in a different way to see what kind of improvements, because there's a level of wisdom to Juliet that I think that is hard for younger actresses to capture.
Melissa: Like there are so like, it's, it's kind of like. It's like I'm on the fence about it, but I don't hate her as Juliet. I don't like, I don't don't horribly dislike her. There were just some scenes that missed the mark. And the thing is with, with Romeo and Juliet, you kind of have to judge it's D by scene. Right. Because scene as so quintessential in the entire story. And so like, um, so their initial meeting scene is one of my favorite scenes in existence.
Julia: Because it's beautiful.
Melissa: Like it's beautiful, but it's, it's not just the beauty and the aesthetic of that scene, even though that is like a huge part of it, how they meet and like, it's just their eye contact. Exactly. That is that eye contact that I'm just like, yeah, this is, this is accurate of how little of how young teenagers. Would fall in love immediately
Julia: Because they're sweet. It had an innocence to it that was just so good.
Melissa: It had this like cute little innocence, this wholesomeness of they just see each other and they see, they each see this beautiful being on the other side of glass. And it's, it's gorgeous. It's absolutely gorgeous to me. Um, and so that one, I love that scene. Her balcony scene there, balcony scene to me is the best Romeo and Juliet balcony scene is it makes me laugh every time when he's on the trellis and he's holding
and she's not being overdramatic. She's literally questioning like, where is that guy? Like, where does she go? Like, where does Romeo, like, I missed him. I just saw him.
She's talking about me, she's talking about me.
Julia: Right. Cause that's all we want is to know how our crush feels about us. Like yeah.
Melissa: And that, that I feel like we showed, we showed that to teenagers. They're going to understand that they're going to understand. Oh, oh, okay. Okay. This isn't like some over dramatic, like why is she, so she just met this guy. She's not, she's like confused because she's 14.
Julia: Yeah. I do love that they did cast Paul Servino as her dad. I thought that was a great choice. Um, he just has be, especially because they do bring in this sort of mafioso feel for the families to pull it into like a modern day. And he just kind of has that sort of mafioso presence, but not in everything that he does, which is nice, right? Like he can sort of, he's a good actor in the sense that he can adapt that sort of persona when he needs to. And I felt that was a great move. And then I loved the guy that they cast as it's not Friar Lawrence in this version. It's Father Lawrence. They changed it to father. And so I, I thought that was a great choice too.
Melissa: I love that. And then I love it. It was like a really weird detail that I picked up yesterday, but I was just like, wow, that's a fricking fat back tattoos.
Julia: Right.
Melissa: And that is like the best cross. It's so big. And like, that's, that's the, that's the sign of like, oh, that's the father.
Julia: And it's so
Melissa: cross tattooed on his back .
Julia: And it's subtle because you don't do you D do you use, I know what there's a scene where you see it through his shirt, but I can't remember if there's any other opportunities that we see it.
Melissa: When, okay. When he's, uh, we first see him and he's talking about, uh, the poison and the plant.
Julia: Oh, aha.
Melissa: The blue, while he's actually shirtless that doesn't have a shirt on at all. And then he, like, he gets the call and goes downstairs and he grabs his Hawaiian shirt and throws it on it.
Julia: That's right. I remember now I also loved, um, John Leguizamo as Tybalt. He did such a great job. And, you know, he would, I don't know if this is his first like really serious role, but you know, at the time he was doing all of these sort of goofy type of movies. So I wondered, I should have looked it up to see if people were nervous about him playing Tybalt but he, I think he crushed it.
Melissa: I loved, uh, who played Benvolio?
Julia: Um, the tall, the guy with the like reddish hair who is like super adorable and does, is like an accomplished ballroom dancer. And he dated Atlanta Morissette for a hot minute.
Melissa: Yeah, I know exactly. I can't, I
Julia: couldn't, I was like, I can't say his name. I've Al I don't know how to pronounce his name without hearing it, so I'm not going to put it in the, but he's so cute. He was on a couple episodes of Felicity, which I loved, and he was just such this 90. I don't wanna say nineties, darling. Cause that's what we say about women, but he, in my mind, he was because he was such a hunk and he was so tall and like sexy, like, oh Benvolio.
Melissa: I loved him. He w he did such a good job. And the thing is, is that like, um, he, he was like, good, um, good comedic. He, he had like that good comedic to him. Like, he was just really good timing. He was very Clippy with Leonardo DiCaprio. Like, I really, I thoroughly enjoyed him. Like, he's definitely up there in, in my favorites.
Julia: Yeah. Um, I did also love, um, so remember the kid and Bring It On, who plays the brother? They, he, they moved to Torrence and he's, I love that he's in it. He played. He's a very small role.
Um, he's the guy who tells Leah, like he's part of the gang, but he's the one who drives out and tells Leo, like I saw her she's dead.
Melissa: Oh, he's the Balthazar.
Julia: That's it?
Melissa: Yeah.
Julia: Thank you.
Melissa: Oh my god. Oh my God. That is him.
Julia: He's so cute. And this is pre bring it on. So, you know.
Melissa: That's just totally pre Bring It On. That's hilarious. I like you said it and I was just like, oh, that that's hilarious. Yeah. I love, and I liked that he did it and he like tries to get it. Oh no. That's Benvolio leader when Romeo runs after, um, after Mercutio is killed. Yeah. And he runs to the car runs after him. And like you have this long shot,
Julia: I thought. And I thought, we'll talk about that as a second. But I thought that was a beautifully, like, that scene was so good because there's so much going on and there's so many different places to look because there's so many different storytelling elements happening. Oh my God. It was so good. Um, if they were to recast some of these characters, who would we have liked to see, to bring more diversity into it?
Like who could hold up these roles, do you think it's not a question I allowed us preparation for. I just thought of it right now.
Melissa: Let me think. Let me think. Um, just like actors, like now, like current actors.
Julia: Ya, cuz I can't remember half the actors from the nineties, unless they're in stuff re watch, you know what I mean?
Melissa: Yeah. Um, that's a hard one.
Julia: It is a hard one, I think, because one actors nowadays, who do we know that has experience in Shakespeare or has like decent, you know, training? Like, do we qualify it with, oh, they went to Julliard or some other really well, a Yale drama or something like that to allow them to be qualified, to play in this modern version.
Melissa: No, I hate that gatekeeping crap with, with Shakespeare and it bothers me. It does like, heck is like qualified to do a part. Out of here qualified.
Julia: Cause one of the things what's great about Shakespeare is that it doesn't have to be like, we've mentioned it doesn't have to be this traditional linear sense. Right? You can cast and he didn't have women to play female roles back then. Anyway. So it was all fucking men
Melissa: Juliet was played by a man.
Julia: Yeah. So, uh, this idea that you could totally like, like you could have made more of the gang, like Jamie Kennedy didn't have to play that role that could have totally gone to somebody else. A person of color. Jamie Kennedy did a great job because he has these great facial features, his facial comedy, I guess. Yeah. What you could call it, spot on that he was a great in that role, but that's the role that you could have interchanged with somebody else, maybe a person of color. Same with
Melissa: I would like to get Lin Manuel Miranda somewhere in there. I don't know why. I just, I don't even like, I don't even like him that much. Love to see him in Romeo and Juliet because he's so overdramatic.
Julia: Yeah.
Melissa: He would actually do wonderful. That that qualifies you to do Shakespeare being overdramatic as Shakespeare qualifier, right there.
Julia: Right there.
Melissa: You went out the gate.
Julia: Out the gate right out the gate. I do think that yes Leo and Claire were really good for their roles, but also you could have, like, I don't know how to have two girls doing it, or I had two guys doing it, or I feel like, you know, Mercutio is kind of the, the catch all. And they did that a lot in the nineties. Cool. And that's what it felt like. We didn't really understand that, you know, intersectionality in the nineties, but at the time it felt like Mercutio was the catchall.
Fluid, Black, you know, had all these things, but nowadays, like that's an action. Those are intersections that we know and understand a little bit better, but 25 years ago, we didn't have that kind of language to say, like, I don't know. She was the only, and then the chief of police chief. Something or other, they called him.
He was, yeah, the prince. Thank you. See what happens when I, when I only watched the adaptations. Yeah. I only remember what the movie,
Melissa: Well, they call him prince in the movie, which is hilarious.
Julia: They call them Chief Prince thanks.
Melissa: Chief prince. And I'm just like, oh, that was a choice.
Julia: It's a, it was an interesting move. I'd love to know more about why they decided to make him the Chief of Police, rather than maybe like some other type of authoritative figure that could have that sort of say, to do banishing and to implement all of these different things.
Melissa: I don't think that they're like in my, cause I think that he's. The chief battalion, um, like in the movie, I think he's like the chief of battalion. So I think that because of that, like that would like be the equal ranking of someone that would be able to like, do the banishing or the arresting or whatever, because he's in charge of all of the guard.
Julia: Right.
Melissa: And he's in charge of all the police. So that's all of the guards. So he's in charge of all of like the like punishment.
Julia: Right, right. Yeah. That makes sense.
Melissa: But it's still a choice to call him Chief Prince though, just throwing, uh, interesting choice.
Julia: Yeah, I agree. Well, we can't talk about this movie without discussing style. Obviously, you know, Romeo and Juliet is Baz Lurhman's second film costumes, set, cinematography. All of it is, you know, big. It's big. Roger Ebert refers to this version as an MTV style version. And when you think about television targeted to teens at that time, I can't really disagree because I did watch a lot of MTV at my friend's house because we didn't have cable until I was a senior in high school, considering the costumes set, design, everything.
Does this movie feel like an MTV generation ode to Romeo and Juliet?
Melissa: I mean, yeah.
Julia: I agree, but it holds up, it holds up because, and I, well, I say it holds up because I'm not I'm, you know, 12 and 1996 watching it again this weekend in preparation for it, I felt like it doesn't feel dated to me because even though there's the cars from the nineties, there's still something timeless, obviously, because it Shakespeare. But the, but you could do Shakespeare and not make it feel timeless. And there's a sort of, it feels timeless. It feels vintage in a way that is going to be, you know, maintained that can live beyond 1996.
Melissa: I think here's my, like, just because it's like an ode to MTV, like an, or the MTV is ode to Romeo and Juliet. I don't do that. That's negative. That's like a negative thing. I definitely don't see that as a negative thing. MTV was fucking cool. I don't care what anyone says. No, no. One of this generation right now knows how, how MTV like shaped. All of us.
Julia: Total Request Live, got to run from school real quick. Cause it starts at three and we got to watch that shit, Carson Daily. We need to know who Carson daily's interviewing. We need to see all those music, but we need to know what the top music videos are because we didn't have YouTube to hop online to watch him. We were dependent on Carson Daily. No,
Melissa: People don't even care about music videos anymore.
Julia: Well, they still make them. Yeah. Music videos are still made. And if.
Melissa: They're not like they're not dropped the way that they used to be. You remember when someone would drop a new music video and it would be on a Friday and they would do the backstage, the behind the scenes of the music video and then they would drop the video and everyone would like seven o'clock. We're dropping a new music video. My favorite hot thing.
Julia: Yeah. My favorite on the weekends was the pop-up video. You know how, uh, VH1 did pop a videos during the music video. They heard him, you trivia throughout the whole thing. I loved that shit. When I was in labor with my son, I watched MTV behind the music in the hospital and in cause they, for whatever reason, MTV cannot do that. Or is it VH1? It's VH1 behind the music. They always air Tupac and Notorious B.I.G. Next to each other, always without fail. And I don't know if that's true now, but that was true 17 years ago. So I'm laid up in the hospital in labor, watching the behind the music of Tupac and Biggie Smalls.
Melissa: Everything about that.
Julia: It's like, oh no, I understand why there's so much Tupac coming out of my child's room. Cause you literally were listening to it while you were trying to come out of my body.
Melissa: Right. Right. Like, oh, that actually makes a lot of sense. But like with the, with the MTV, like styling of it, like that, that's what made this movie, what it was like. That is the epitome of this movie is the styling of the movie. And like the, the clothes that like the mafia.
Julia: I love the use of Hawaiian shirts. I thought that was really.
Melissa: Hawaiian Shirts.
Julia: Yeah.
Melissa: Oh my God. It was brilliant. The Hawaiian shirts and all of the gold chains and all like just calling, calling flag.
Julia: Firearms, swords, and the naming them brands of different types of swords that exist. I thought that was clever. So I loved how everybody had like an open shirt, you know, like here I am, cause the puffing of the chest is like a thing, right. Like to show how tough you are.
Melissa: And like they all have like the holsters under the open shirts. And like, it was just, I dunno, it was, it was great. It was so in your, it was so in your face. And I think that it's such a great Testament to Shakespeare, right? Like Shakespeare is if you know what he's saying, if you understand Shakespeare, you know that he's very in your face. It's very blatant like this. This, this whole movie is very intentional. It's a very sad, sad story. And it's intentionally very sad why it's a tragedy and that's why it needs to be so, uh, dramatic and in your face. And I think that the styling of it just really held up very well. I loved, um, the, the grunged out sepia tones that they used in the filters.
Yes.
Beautiful for beautiful lighting. Um, the one set scene that like, I just can't ever get out of my mind. It's the most beautiful thing that I've ever seen in my life is that, that stage, that mess up dilapidated stage on the beach where he gives that beautiful monologue and then you see it in the storm and you see the beat in the background and it's just, oh my God. It is.
Julia: So they built.
Melissa: Cinematic gold.
Julia: So they built that set for the movie. And there was a true storm coming in as they were filming that scene. And so they filmed the scene, the cut they exit, and then the storm comes in and just destroys everything. So when they had to go back and do like reshoots for certain things, they didn't have the original set to do that with because the storm had ruined it. And I, when I read that little trivia fact, I was like, I love that because often in movies. I wonder when there is a storm scene, are you really filming during a storm or does this like a recreation that you've made so that way you could have it for the film, but it makes that scene so much more authentic knowing that's a real storm brewing and coming in Mercutio's pain and sorrow and frustration and anger, it just culminates in such a way that it feels it's feels like you're there with them.
Melissa: Oh yeah, you're right there. Like you can. Yeah. It's it is, uh, it is palpable for sure. And it's just, um, yeah, it's definitely one of my favorite things, but they did, they did a great job with this set. They did. It's a, it's a beautiful, so like we, so on my show with Noel we talk about, um, about, uh, musical renditions, right? So we're not going to be talking about Romeo and Juliet because it's not a musical, but, but if we were to talk about.
This is definitely something that we would dive into more, but it's the, it's the perfect combination of a movie set of seeing a full movie set because the movies is supposed to look real. It's supposed to be palpably real. It's supposed to, um, really take you out of where you're at in your house and into the film. Right. But when you're at a play, it's different, you're, you're on, you're in the venue, you're experiencing it with the actors right in front of you. Right. And they did a great job bringing that feeling into this movie.
Julia: I totally agree. I totally agree. Um, the party scene felt really great to me too, in the sense of like, you get the sense of jubilation and just balls out fun. You know what I mean? Especially when you have a Paul Sorvino coming up to, to, um, John Leguizamo and who's just like just chill don't wreck the party. Don't bring dishonor on my family. That feels like that don't do that shit. And that's like, yeah, shit really happened in real life kind of moment.
But everyone's in costumes. I don't know what it is about the nineties and like a shit ton of movies, just having costume parties in it. But we need to that back because I love it. All right. Yeah, because Paul Rudd's you know, an astronaut, um, Claire Danes is a, is an angel. Um, Romeo is, um, this knight and then you have Juliette's mom, who's Cleopatra. And then all the types of characters that are, that you can see, and then you can kind of see like nods to Shakespeare in, within the, within the extras and their costumes too.
Melissa: So, you know, one thing that I really love about the costume scene is, okay, so you've got Paul Rudd in his, like he's full on, you know, astronaut, right. Everyone else is in these full-on like big costumes. Then he got Romeo and Juliet. Juliet is going a little light. It's cute. Cute, cute dress.
Julia: She's an angel it's cause she's an angel.
Melissa: It's just a very simple, like she could totally wear that going to the store. Okay. That's like a normal, it's a normal dress.
It's not a costume. And that she just like threw some wings on it, it's really cute. It's very teenagery. That's totally something that a teenager, you just, oh, my mom is going to theme party. I had to wear a costume by let's go throw these wings on whatever. Right. Call it, call it a day. Romeo. He was like kind of halfway in his costume, but then he's kind of not because he's on drugs and so.
Julia: Can I just tell you that, that scene where they're singing that song and Mercutio was just like, relax, have fun, take this pill. It's going to be amazing. And, and then he, and he does, and he's like, oh, these drugs are quick. Like I, at 12 years old, well, 13 years old had never really like, understood that like D.A.R.E. Came to my school in fifth grade, but like, we all know there's kind of a joke and, and different, you know, anti-drug things, but to see.
So I feel like that scene was very, um, revolutionary for its time for multiple reasons. One raves were starting to become kind of a big thing in the later nineties. I don't really know about the early nineties, but I remember being like a freshman in high school and people were like, we're going to a rave, like you're fucking stupid. And then, and
Melissa: I'm really glad that you're, I'm not the only one that had that reaction. Cause I was like no thanks.
Julia: Yeah. And also I'm very noise sensitive. So the bass drumming beat would actually make me pass out, um, on that level. But two it's, you know, they're doing this sort of it's so in my mind it 12, I don't think this, I don't know what this drug is.
Maybe it's X, ecstasy whatever. Fast forward, 25 years. I'm like, oh, I wonder if that's like. Something else, but I don't know, but to see them sort of party prep get ready and then we're Kushi gets to the party and he's dancing and he's just really getting into the song. I thought that when he's on the stairs and those guys are dancing with him, it was very reminiscent of that scene. That very famous scene in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes. When Marilyn Monroe is singing, Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend. There's a very similar scene where they go and like do all these hand gestures of very similar. And I, I love that. I, I thought that that was a really not brave. Brave's the wrong word, kind of innovative take on a classic scene, whether or not Baz Luhrmann was intentionally trying to do that, who knows, but it shows that you can be this big, beautiful, different, unique creative person and not have to have sort of this traditional viewing of things.
Melissa: I will say. He's definitely taking ecstasy. Yeah. Her one little pill with a heart stamped on it. That's, that's an E
Julia: um, I don't do drugs. I didn't do drugs back then.
Melissa: I've never, I've never done it before. I just know what that cause me and Josh were just like, Hmm, is that, is that acid or dropping acid? And then we thought about, no, we're not dropping acid. Cause that would be a square thing. And like we're very bad at drugs. Like we don't do them. So we're just like, I'm pretty sure. But so we, we talked to another friend we're just like, oh yeah, that's definitely right. Right. But when he says like the drugs are fast, I loved, uh, the cut scene where like, he's just like tripping out and then you just see him in water.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. Cause he's got a riff, he's got to do something to bring himself back. And honestly, at the time I didn't realize that that was him having trippin. I just thought, like, I don't know what I thought, you know, at 12, 13 years old, I had no idea what to think about that scene other than like, whoa, this is like stimulation overload. Um, you know, but now as an adult, I'm just like, oh yeah, that's totally.
Melissa: Well, that was also, that was one of the scenes where I, I didn't understand it when I read it when I was young, like when we were in high school, like we would read that scene and like we knew he was, we knew he was doing drugs. Like it says, it says it right there. We knew that he was doing something and that like, they give him some, but like, we don't have the context of Renaissance time, era of what drugs they would have been doing. I have no idea. Like I thought about it and multiple times just like, I don't know what he would have been doing.
Julia: Mushrooms. I don't know.
Melissa: Oh, maybe mushrooms, maybe some type of opium, um, liquid to put, cause like sometimes it's portrayed as like they, they drop something into the wine, that drinks. Um, but like I never, I never really understood, like, okay, so he's on drugs. How is he supposed to be acting? If we don't know what kind of drugs he's doing. Right. Right. So when I saw this scene in this and like he's taking this pill and then it shows him like tripping out. Yeah. That made sense to me, it was just like, oh, oh, There we go. There we go. That's what we're, that's the crucial missing part of my brain.
Julia: So remember when this movie came out, obviously I keep talking about it. I was desperate to see it because hello, Leonardo DiCaprio crush coming in hot, but my parents had this very strict rule of that. I had to be 13 to watch PG 13 movies. That'd be 17 to watch rated R movies, et cetera. So it was released on November 1st, 1990, um, 96. So by the time it came out on video, I think it was like the spring.
So my birthday's in March. So it worked out, it timed perfectly for me to actually like rent it and watch it. And it was so excited. I still have the memory of sitting in our love seat, popping it into, I don't remember if I rented it on VHS or laser disc, but I rented it on something and popping it in and like watching it, it was kind of a rainy-ish feeling day. And like, which I felt was like the perfect type of weather to watch this movie. And I was just like so excited. I was finally right. And I was finally able to be a part of this sort of like huge teen cultural event because everybody I knew was talking about it. And I was just like, I haven't seen it. I'm not allowed to blah.
So let's talk about our overall opinions, thoughts, and emotions about this film. I know it's a big,
Melissa: I do. So like I remember, I remember when I watched it for the first time. Um, I was about, so I as were, uh, when it came out in 90, so it came out in 96, 96. So I was, I was only five, so I was, I was younger. Um, my mom was not strict. Didn't care. What I watched quite honestly, why watched so many inappropriate things. I cannot even tell you. So many, uh, but I didn't watch this until god. I was like playing nine, nine or 10. Okay. Um, but I remember my mom, like I remember it being on MTV. Like it was just on TV at that point and it had just started and my mom was just like, you gotta come.
Okay....Why? She goes Leonardo DiCaprio. Isn't it. I was just like oh ok.
Julia: He is so dreaming for a skinny little kid, you know? And now when we see high school teenagers portrayed, they're like buff and meaty and lean. And like, I don't understand.
We had like scrawny little skinny actors and you know what? I'm okay with
Melissa: that. And then we wonder why we're attracted to the men that we're attracted to. Like, are you fricking kidding me?
Julia: I'm obsessed with basic white boys? Cause my first Leonardo DiCaprio wasn't my first crush, but still I was obsessed with the 12 in the nineties.
Melissa: Tall skinny white men.
Julia: Yeah. That's the thing for me.
Melissa: That's my vibe. Yeah. I don't even know, but, uh, but it's 100% his fault, but good. So I remember watching it with my mom. And not, not fully understanding it. Cause I had never read Shakespeare. I hadn't read Shakespeare yet. I hadn't read anything up. Um, but I just really loved it. I loved it. I don't know what it was about it because I didn't really understand what was happening, but I loved it. I loved the storyline and I knew that they were in love and I knew that something was happening. I had never seen anything like it before and then like flash forward to when I'm teenager and I watch it again and I was just like, oh my God, I understand so many things now.
Julia: Right.
Melissa: This makes so much sense now. And it gave me kind of this like some type of sense of like closure of like not understanding something for a long time. And then suddenly like that light bulb.
Julia: It makes sense.
Melissa: Type thing. It was like that for me. Um, and it kind of gave me that little. This movie is why I love Shakespeare as much as I do because I was exposed to it so young. And even though I didn't understand it, I loved it. And I wanted to, I wanted to understand it. This movie made me want to understand what was being, um, because it was so gorgeous.
Julia: I also, I really loved it and I felt like, oh, I kind of love this the way that they meet. I felt like that was such a beautifully romantic situation. And throughout my teen years, I guess you could say, and even in my adolescence, it was, or even in my young adulthood, it was like, I'd love to have this kind of meet cute. And I think that this film is what sparks my obsession with meet cute and loving sort of falling into romcoms because there's not a romcom, but the way that they meet is so sweet, so innocent, so beautiful.
And just so pure. You know, clearly they have this adoration for each other and are curious about each other. And so that initial snapshot is what sort of sparked this whole, I think I love love. And then as I get older and I'm watching it more and you know, I'm getting different things out of it. Cause you know, as you age, you learn and grow and hopefully become wiser as an adult.
I'm just like, oh, this shit is so fucking sad. I showed it to my son maybe last year or two years ago. I think we watched it. Maybe it was last year. It was before I rearranged the living room before we got the dog. So I think it might've been last year during quarantine. No, he was reading it as a freshmen.
So we watched it his freshman year. So it was like, your teacher's not going to let you watch this version in class. You're probably going to watch the 1960s version, which fine. But, um, and he enjoyed it as well, but he was older watching it than when I first saw it. So the takeaway is a little different and we could have conversations about like, Hey, you know, there's this drug use or whatever, but what was really great about watching it like that full circle for me was that he didn't think it was dated.
He didn't think it was tacky or cheesy or anything like that. He got out of it what the intention I think is to get out of this film. And I really got into Baz Luhrmann after this movie. Like every time he released something, Hey, but now when I rewatched it on Friday, I was like, all right, Baz Lurhmann you're kind of a one trick pony because there's a lot of elements in this film that are also in Moulin Rouge.
Melissa: Well, yeah.
Julia: And some of the commenters on rotten tomato were like, you know, fuck this movie, Moulin Rouge was butter, which, okay. You can't really compare the two because one's Shakespeare, but like, it just kind of that month musical it's three years ago. So that moment of realizing like a lot of the techniques that he used that I thought were innovative and creative at the time, when I'm an adult and have studied film a little bit better, it was a little like of a heartbreak, I guess, to be like, you couldn't expand upon what you did in Romeo and Juliet and make it better.
Like you literally use some of the same tricks in that, in the VR. And to me, it was very obvious that they were the same tricks.
Melissa: I actually had a different takeaway. Like I just find that to be Baz Luhrmann styling.
Julia: Yeah.
Melissa: And I, I can't, it's hard for me as a, it's hard for me as a director to, uh, to like judge another director's specified type of styling. Because he worked very hard to figure out how to do it correctly. And because he does know how to do it correctly, I like seeing it in his films. I don't mind, like, I don't mind, um, knowing what I'm going to get from that director, if that.
Julia: Yeah, that makes sense. For me, it was more of like I expected, I thought there was growth. And then upon further reflection, it's not growth. It's just sorta the same style over and over and over again.
Melissa: I will say I didn't, I didn't make the connection between Moulin Rouge and Romeo and Juliet being by the same director for yearly years. It was years. I mean, I had watched both movies so many times, and I knew that Baz Lurhmann directed Romeo and Juliet, but I had never, I, for some reason I really just didn't need to look into the director.
Like it wasn't on purpose or anything. It was just like, oh, I should probably know that. And then I realized that it was, I was learning. I was like, all right, cool. I like that. I like that. That's cool.
Julia: I don't want people to misunderstand. I find Moulin Rouge to be a beautiful movie. I listened to the soundtrack on CD because I think it came out in 2000 for like on repeat for like to the point where it's not a movie you can watch with me because I will sing along and recite the entire fucking thing. And my favorite scene in that movie is the Roxanne dancing scene because I love tango. Tango is beautiful and the way that he interpreted tango and the way that they re structured Roxanne, the song was just to me that was mind blowing. Like I was like, I, this, I want to be a dancer in a film. Like I want to pursue, I want to go to Hollywood or New York.
I don't give a shit. I want to dance. I want to have the opportunity to work with choreographers to make these types of scenes. Of course, that didn't happen because I still live in Modesto and I fucking hate it here. So, and now if I try to dance, I get winded and I'm chubby. So it's kinda like
Melissa: it's so funny. I, so that song, that's actually my favorite song from that movie to really, but yeah, it's my favorite one. Um, I got to do one, uh, I can't remember what year it was, but I got to do a lighting design. Yeah. Um, final and I did it to that song and I queued my lights to that song and I had dancers. It was really, really freaking cool. So yeah, it's definitely up there. My favorite.
Julia: Oh, so good.
Melissa: Favorite movies ever really.
Julia: I also realized too, watching this over the week. Um, the other day in preparation for our conversation that I still have Romeo and Juliet committed to memory as well. And I'm sad that I'm pushing 40 because I would love to have the opportunity to take a stab at playing Juliet.
Melissa: I left the nurse.
Julia: Oh, we didn't even talk about her. She's was Juliettta! Sorry, people listening. I was going to do that.
Melissa: But she's actually one of my favorite characters too. And this one, she her her rendition of the nurse is really great and not. Staunchy and too motherly the way that it's played sometimes, because like sometimes the nurse is played as the very maternal role because the mother is not, not and prefers Tybalt. And like, you know, it's like a whole thing.
Julia: The whole thing.
Melissa: Thing. And so like, we don't like the mom, but we like nurse and the nurses is nice to Juliet but in this one, like she is nice to Juliette. She loves me obviously, but she's also.
Julia: She's got a lot of character speaking as a sassy, speaking of Tybalt and Juliet's mom, I really, really thought how they portray, like she is oozing sexual desire for other people. I mean, we see it obviously with Tibble, like to the point, like when Tybalt dies and she's just so she's devastated in a way that a lover would be devastated. Right. And then when she's trying to get Paul Rudd's character and Juliet together and be like, Ooh, these things, she is so, mm what's the word I'm looking for? And if that was my mom trying to hook me up with that guy, I'd be like, why are you wasting your time? You're trying to, you're trying to hit that yourself.
Melissa: Like, mom, you look a little thirsty. They're like,
Julia: I can't marry somebody that you're going to less after and potentially like steal. Like that's awkward. This isn't 9 0 2, 1 oh people. This is not Melrose Place. This is not General Hospital.
Melissa: Oh, I feel old. I'm feeling old. Julia, you can't be referencing all of that.
Julia: Sorry.
Melissa: Oh my God. I just got like flashbacks of being in my, in my house during daytime television, not doing my homework.
Julia: But overall I think that I definitely have fond feelings for this film. I am emotionally connected to it and it's not just because I think not just because it came out in my adolescence, it holds up after all this time, it will be interesting to revisit it. Say in like 10 years or even 20 years to see if it's something that could potentially still hold up.
Melissa: Right. Yeah, no, I totally agree. Um, my, I mean, my overall feeling on this one is I, I love everything about this movie. Like. I have, like I said, I have some issues here and there with specific scenes of like the old and like the one that can really pop into my head is, uh, is their death scene and Juul when she wakes up, when she wakes up and he dies, he dies. And then he actually like dies and she lets out this. She's sobbing, crying, and crying that one cry and it's so awful. And I'm like, oh, they couldn't, they needed to retake that one. Like they needed to reshoot that particular cry right there. And I feel like that must have been. At least the fifth or sixth take. And they were like, nah, fuck it. We can't, we can't do.
Julia: One if these will work. See, and I, I, I, I'm going to have to disagree. I love so when he walks into the church and she's laying there, holy shit, that scene is emotionally devastating, but also beautifully designed because there's all these candles lit. She's like clearly being honored as this, you know, beloved daughter. And it's beautiful. The candle lighting. I tell you what that sealed the deal for that scene.
Melissa: Oh yeah. And then the whole seat is gorgeous. It's just her crying. It's just something that I have an issue with.
Julia: Reportedly Claire Danes when he gives his monologue there wa while, whilst he thinks she's dead, he pre- delivered that so well that she had, she struggled not to cry because he delivered it so well. And when they cut the scene, he was just, she was just, she hit him and was just like, you can't do that because I'm, I almost cried. Know.
So, you know, the other thing is too, I'm just like this man deserved to, to be nominated for an award for this movie, one of the prestigious ones, because he did such a great job. Like I, again, I cry in that scene when he's speaking to her, the scene in the, you know, the balcony scene. Where he's just like watching her he's so animated. And so just involved, he did such a great job and it's just like, man, what you do to people in Hollywood to make him mad that your first Oscar nod was like the rev revel, remanent, Revenant. I don't know whatever he was. He did so many movies that deserved academy award nominations, if not wins prior to that film. And this is one of them.
Melissa: Yeah. Leonardo DiCaprio is definitely one of the most underrated actors.
Julia: 100% Titanic. That's why.
Melissa: Which is bullshit too, because we did great in Titanic. You don't think that he did great in Titanic
Julia: Titanic, he shouldn't have died there's plenty of room on that fucking door for him.
Melissa: There really was. Okay. But, um, no, I, the candles, so that candle scene is that is how that scene needs to look. That is how that scene should be. All the time Juliet should always be on this immaculate crazy ulcer because she is the whole catalyst for the, for the story is, is her. Um, and so I just think that they did, oh God, I loved, I love that.
Julia: That's beautiful. I wanted to be her costume one year for Halloween when I was younger, obviously that didn't happen, but.
Melissa: Her a little angel costume. Oh my God. That's so funny.
Julia: And I loved her hair and how long her hair was. And then I later found out it was a wig and I was like, I feel betrayed.
Melissa: Looking at it yesterday.
Julia: Yeah. Once you know, it's a weight, you can see it. You know what I mean? Like once I learned it was a wig, I was like, I now see that it's a wig and I feel betrayed.
Melissa: Yeah. I looked at when I looked it up yesterday, cause I found that out yesterday, I was just like, oh, but like she was just coming off of My So-Called Life. So, I mean, she had short.
Julia: She probably still had short hair.
Melissa: Yeah. I was about to say in the last season she still had that like. blunt cut.
Julia: Yeah. Red hair. I liked her better as a blonde, if I'm going to be honest. Damn. She's beautiful. As a blonde fam. Yeah, she is beautiful.
Melissa. Thank you so much for coming on the show again. It's always fun when you were here and then for you to bring your theater theatrical background to this conversation, I think is an added bonus.
Melissa: Thank you for having me. I always look so much fun with you.
Julia: Cause we're just the best
Melissa: we really are. We're the dream team. Gotta admit.
Julia: Right now. You can watch this version of Romeo and Juliet on, on Hulu, but as streaming services go, this could change at any month. So hurry up and get there before it's gone. I don't know. Anyway.
Melissa: Watch it with your kids. If you have not watched this with your, you have like teenage children, watch it with your kids.
Julia: I think it's a good, it's a good intro. Like I, like I said, I got into, into Shakespeare in a different way after seeing this. Cause you know, we kind of grew up with it a little bit at the house, but yeah, as always, you can find us on Instagram at pop culture. Makes me jealous. Thanks for tuning in y'all. See ya Next time.
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