Never Have I Ever | 11
Show Notes:
Never Have I Ever is a Netflix original that dropped on April 27th, 2020 and this coming of age story of an American-Indian teen was exactly what we all needed.
Shy is back to discuss what it means to see an Indian-American teen on streaming, how Mindy Kaling has impacted representation in the pop culture sphere and why we love this show.
This one, admittedly, is a bit vulnerable for me and I appreciate Shy being willing to answer my questions.
This episode is sponsored by Hues by Juls. Hues by Juls offers custom artwork specializing in watercolor. Focusing on the human form and different shades of skin. If you're looking for the perfect gift for a birthday or a special memory you'd like to commemorate, check out Hues by Juls!
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The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, it's Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous and I'm your host, Julia. And one of our regulars is back. Can you guess you guessed it? It's Shy and we are here to talk about Mindy Kaling’s show, Never Have I Ever.
This episode is brought to you by Hues by Juls. Hues by Juls offers, custom artwork and original prints, specializing in watercolor, focusing on the human form and different shades of skin. If you're looking for that perfect gift for a birthday or have a special memory, you'd like to commemorate visit Hues by Juls on Instagram, or find the Etsy shop of the same name, that Hues H U E S by Juls, J U L S
Never Have I Ever is a Netflix original that dropped on April 27th, 2020, and this coming of age story of an American Indian teen was exactly what I think we all needed personally, but we're going to now recap the show, but also welcome Shy. Welcome back. We're so glad you're here.
Shy: It's, it's rare that I'm here for something that's not a Marvel project. I kind of feel like I'm out of all the people, all your friends that I might be the best person to speak to about, about Never Have I Ever, yeah. Obviously.
Julia: Obviously pan over my face. Okay. Let's recap really quickly for our friends at home.
Shy: Okay.
Julia: Never Have I Ever, as an American coming of age comedy drama, television series about an Indian American high school student, dealing with the death of her father step into the complicated life of modern day first-generation Indian American teenage girl inspired by Mindy Kaling's own childhood. I think I got that summary from Netflix. If I think. It is a Netflix original. And so on April 20th, 2020 Variety published a review titled, "Netflix's Never Have I Ever from Mindy Kayling and Lang Fisher" and had this to offer,
"Never Have I Ever is far from the first time a Kaling production has tried to take pre-existing tropes and filter them through a more unique lens. See rom coms, The Mindy Project and Four Weddings and a Funeral. But it does feel most immediately sure of itself and what it can offer, that other shows and its genre didn't and, or don't thanks to more monochromatic casts and perspectives couldn't ;with enough, self-awareness empathetic acting to ground and elevate it. Never Have I Ever makes for smart, refreshing, and frankly, overdue change of pace."
I'm going to agree. Cause I loved it. This show has universal appeal because of its teenage themes. But at the same time, we get a full view of what it's like to be an Indian American teen, but also it doesn't leave out her friends or other supporting characters from the show.
Let's talk about why we love the show. I'm assuming I don't want to assume you'll have the show.
Shy: I do. I do love the show. I'm a big fan of Mindy Kaling and I would like to hear why you are a fan of the show.
Julia: So I really just felt like. Does like the lead character, the desire to be sort of like, cool, but also like she's trying, like, there's just so much like angsty conflict within her that I was like, that's so ,that's such a teenage feel. You know, she's not melancholy the way that Angela was from. So, um, it's My So-Called life, or, you know, other teenage shows that were impressionable, but like, she was just. She was a dick, but she also loved her friends. And there was something about that combination that I've just thought was so fun.
It's and I think it's a total Mindy Kaling trademark. Like she does that. She has these characters who are kind of like a little bit of an asshole, but also like, you just can't help, but love them because they don't have, they have redeeming qualities as well.
Shy: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, had I worked in The Office work in The Mindy Project, they all have characters like that.
Julia: So I just loved that she gave us a character that was so relatable, but then tied in like what it was like to have, , immigrant parents that weren't from that weren't from a Latin America country, you know, it's the Indian America, Indian American words are hard.
Shy: It's okay.
Julia: Her parents immigrated from India. So it's that, that perspective of an immigrant immigrant story and just all of the different there. So I learned so much from watching it and I'm, you know, curious to learn more now because of this show about the Indian culture.
Shy: Okay. That's cool. I, yeah, I thought, first of all, I think we've touched on this in another show that like having, uh, an Indian main character blew my mind like that. And she's like a young teenager and I feel like, uh, just the first time watching the show, I was like, I w this was like my life back when I was a teenager, I don't think I was an asshole like, she, like, Devi is. But like the, like the scholarly, nerdy, horny teenager thing, like, that's kind of like a universal, not universal because not everyone was like nerdy, but like, I very much felt like that was me.
And the fact that she was Indian, like, really, it was like, it was bizarre to me to watch it because I've never had that before in my life. Like being able to, um, I feel like Mindy is the only person that has been making television that I can see myself in. So I really appreciate her work in that, but I really enjoyed the show and I have friends that aren't Indian, that enjoyed the show as well.
So I feel like there's something for everyone there. You don't have to be Indian to enjoy it.
Julia: Like her best friend. Fabiola one of her best friends. Fabiola like make her model. Yeah. It's like, Hmm. I just feel like, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Mindy Kaling for not giving her a white best friend.
Shy: Yeah.
Julia: Which there's nothing wrong with that. But I feel like there's always like a caveat, right? Like, and I know that she's, I can't remember which book she wrote it in, or if she's publicly said it in interviews, I can't remember which one it happened, but she said like, somebody told her she's only ever going to be the best friend. Like that's all she'll ever be in Hollywood.
Shy: Oh, Mindy.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah.
Shy: And I remember seeing like, oh, you have a lot of self confidence. And she's like, well, why shouldn't I have self-confidence because I'm a woman because I'm a woman of color because I am not like a super skinny stick. Like, are those all reasons that I should not be ashamed of myself?
Julia: Right.
Shy: Like I should be ashamed of myself.
Julia: Right. And I just love that she creates characters that are strong and confident. Like the lead is always strong and confident you. So she's giving us a brown lead who is just like, I mean, Devi has her moments where she's just like doubting herself, but that's just normal. That's just teenage. That's just being a teenager. Like it's got all these emotions flooding, but I love that. She, I love that at the end of season one, she's like going for it, just like I'm going to date Paxton and whatever the other one's called Ben, not Ben. What's the other one called?
Shy: No, not Ben.
Julia: Is it Ben? But I would not, I never would have done that as a high school kid, but maybe I would have,
Shy: I didn't have my first kiss until I was like 19.
Julia: Oh my gosh. I love that. Oh, it has Ben. Yeah. So I love that. She's just like dating both of them and Paxton's just real cute. I mean, they're both really cute, but like Paxton clearly is supposed to be the hot one, you know?
And she's just like, I'm like, yes, thank you. Give the nerdy girl, the hot boyfriend option. I can really appreciate that you did that Mindy. And she does that for like all the things and it makes me so happy. Um, I'm curious though, like we had a conversation, I don't know. One of the times you were here off, like before we went online to record about how you really related to the tiger mom aspect of the show.
Shy: Oh yeah. I think that's just like a usual, a general, like Asian thing is to have a tiger mom. So it was, uh, kind of refreshing, like, I don't think. I don't know if people that aren't Indian or aren't Asian can relate to the whole tiger mom aspect, but it's sorry, mom, if you're listening to this, but it can be really, really hard, like, like really damaging to your emotional and mental wellbeing to have a tiger mom.
Julia: Yeah.
Shy: Cause it, it puts a lot of pressure on you and if you don't live up to that pressure, like, you feel like a failure. Like, even if you're like almost there, but you're not quite there. Like, no matter if you don't hit that you're done, like your fear of failure. So I, I get that Tigger mindset and I liked that I got to see somebody else living through the, of the mom thing. And maybe it feels a little bit more, um, like a shared trauma rather than one my own to bear.
Julia: I, I mean, I can't relate on the level of being from the same descent, but I CA I do understand the nice seeing something represented that, you know, you realize maybe is a little universal and not just like an isolated incident.
Shy: I feel like Devi's mom was really nice in some ways though. Like maybe it is because they had lost their dads. I should maybe, but I don't feel like they showed any kind of abuse that is kind of normalized in Indian society, like physical abuse. So I am grateful for that, that they didn't actually have that on because I don't know if I could have, I know, I remember talking to my sister about Never Have I Ever. And some of the ways is that the moms spoke to Devi like really stuck with her to like, remembering, like being that young and feeling super vulnerable as like a person that you're trusting is like in your face, screaming at you. It can be a lot, especially when you're a teenager and you're not emotionally prepared or ready to handle something like that.
Julia: Sure. That actually brings us into our next segment, which the cut ran an op ed. It was titled give, Never Have I Ever a chance and the writer. Um, I apologize if I butcher her first name, I realized in watching Never Have I Ever, that I've never like, learned how to say Indian names properly. And so then that made me feel like a really bad person, because it's like, shit like, ah, like do better. Like.
Shy: Well, you're not the only one. I mean, my name is Shireen. Nobody calls me Shireen. Everyone calls me Shy because a long time ago they decided like Shireen is too hard to say.
Julia: I'm my name is hella basic. Like Julia, like it's very old. The point is, is that names are important and we should be able, we should do our best to acknowledge and say, the name as correctly as we possibly can. And like, recognize that your name is important to who you are. For some people, some people don't give a shit about their names, but for me, like my name is very important to me. If I ever got married, still going to be a Washington. Sorry guys.
Shy: I got that. I feel like at this point in my life though, like everyone knows me as Shy. Like I can't, I feel like it would be weird at this point to like, be like, no, call me Shireen. I just feel like, I dunno. I probably would just stick with it now. I'm almost 40. I might as well.
Julia: Yeah, I get that. Anyway. Back to this Cut op ed there, sin Gita, it's S A N G E E T A
Sangeeta sink Kurtz, where she admits that her expectations were outrageously high, but she acknowledges that while she wants a more diverse representation of the Indian, Indian American experience presented that can't waste solely on Mindy Kayling shoulders. She answered peace with this. It's a good thing that we can turn on Netflix and see a horny Indian girl.
Who's both a nerd and an asshole. I like seeing her get fed up with her culture, but also just being a teenager and watching her pray to Ganisha before blacking out at a house party. I haven't seen that before and while Never Have I Ever. We'll have its detractors even, or perhaps, especially among those who see themselves in it, it shouldn't have to tick every box to be enjoyable, which ultimately it is.
So I want to talk about a couple of different things, like is Mindy Kaling just sort of scratching the surface on what we could potentially get in terms of content, if we had more Indian creators. And then the other part of that is like, I totally want to talk about all the relationships on the show, like all the different dynamics and all the things, but let's start with like my first, my first thought.
Cause I think about that all the time in the Black community, like we're only scratching the surface about the Black community. So we must only be scratching the surface for everybody else as well, because there's very little representation for Indian-Americans in Hollywood.
Shy: Oh, absolutely. And I feel like I feel really bad for Mindy Kaling, cause I feel like it is all on her shoulders right now. She's literally like her and Lily Singh, I think are the only content creators that are Indian. And they're also both female. So they have a very different approach than any, I mean, any other Indian person, I know that in the Indian community, Mindy Kaling herself is very, um, polarizing. Men seem to not like her.
I'm going to be very general, like zing right now, but it seems like men don't really seem to love. Women are like, is cool that she's doing stuff, but they don't technically, always love her either. I personally love her because I dig her sense of humor and her sense of style. Um, but I feel like everyone is expecting to have their own story told through her eyes.
And I'm like, she can only do so much. You can only tell her own story. Like if you want to have tell your own story, then tell your own story. Like don't expect her or get mad at her to not be able to tell your story when she, all she can tell you is what, how she feels in her personal story behind it. So I feel like people unnecessarily shit on her when they really shouldn't.
For some reason, like Gannett guys are like, she's not funny. And then they'll turn around and say, The Office is my favorite show.
Julia: She wrote like every, like every other episode, shit.
Shy: Like, what is wrong with you that you were, that you were so like in your head about like women, like when women can be funny or this specifically Mindy Caylin, can't be funny to you, but then you also love The Office. Like you can't have both, you can't do both. Um, so do you feel like she gets a lot of the ire of the Indian community, but that's only because she's one of the very few people in our community that are out there and like doing things and are well-known God, it's a lot of pressure.
Julia: I can't even imagine the pressure because, you know, she grew up in what Massachusetts. So that's a completely different experience than growing up in California. Her parents are doctors, which I don't know, like I know the stereotype is that, you know, a lot of Asian and Asian-Americans become doctors because. What you're supposed to do. Like that's a stereotype that we see presented in pop culture all the time, but I just, I can't even imagine.
And I think she, I think she is handling it well from the outside is from what we can see. I think she's handling it.
Shy: And I feel like also she does have a tendency to have, um, white boyfriends on her shows. Like if she's on the show, she always marries or like is with a white guy. The only time I feel like she's like dated in Indian guy on Mindy Project and in The Office, she did marry the super handsome doctor.
Julia: Oh my gosh. It comes back to be the dad on Never Have I Ever, I love how loyal she is to people that say no.
Shy: Side note. When she does cast Indian guys on her show, she picks the cutest, oh my God, she's doing them a service by picking like super handsome Indian guys to represent. India in the shows like people that might not know Indian people are watching like the other
Julia: Ya, the guy from Four Weddings and a Funeral.
Shy: Oh my gosh. He's so handsome. Me. And one of my best friends are like so beautiful. I'm going to watch that new show out on HBO with him on it too.
Julia: He's going to be in a new show?
Shy: I think it already aired. It was called like lovestruck or something like that.
Julia: Oh yes? Yes. I didn't realize there's so much content out there that it's so hard to like take it all in. And the algorithms totally make me miss things, which is really irritating. I, I just, I really want Four Weddings and a Funeral to have a second season, but it's been so long since the first one that I don't know if that's going to happen.
Shy: It was cute. I actually really liked that show too.
Julia: I thought you did a great job with it. I thought she did a great job with paying, like keeping in tune with the original and the original concept, but still sort of making it her own and bringing in not just a diverse cast, but a really unique way to tell the story. I thought.
Shy: Yeah, I thought so too.
Julia: I like watching it in the winter? It's like, oh, I can't wait for November so I can watch it again. But I want to talk about the relationships too on this show. Like there's so many different types of dynamics that are coming across. Like you have Devi and her two best friends, Eleanor and Faviola. And then Debbie with her dad, her relationship with her dad is such a huge part of the show, both in season one and in season two.
And then she and her mom. And then I couldn't remember if Common was in season one.
Shy: I don't think so. I think he was just to use it to
Julia: just since season two and then their dynamic. I was like, listen, I realize that I'm probably old enough to be Devi's mom, but I'm here for this mom Common situation. Anyway. Did you have, like, was there any particular relationship storyline that you really gravitated to the most? In a positive way?
Shy: My favorite positive relationship on that show was between Devi and her dad. That was a really good, like, it was like an unconditional love. Like you could tell that she adored her dad and put him on a pedestal maybe to her detriment because once he was gone, like her mom would never live up to that expectation.
And that was like another point against the mom, even if it was like undeserved or whatever. But, um, but I thought, I thought showing a great father daughter relationship, like that was really cute.
Julia: I really like, so for those of you listening, who haven't seen the show, I don't know what you're doing with your lives. Cause you need to hurry up and go get, go get Netflix to watch it. At the beginning of season one, Devi we learned that Devi's dad has died. Was it a car accident?
Shy: Oh, my gosh, I don't remember. I haven't watched these in one
Julia: or a heart event. It was something that was unexpected, that happened. So they weren't like, so it was a surprise. Like, I mean, death is always a surprise, but when someone's older and like, ill, you kind of expect it, but this was a surprise situation. So we opened with season one, she can't walk like her. She has a physical reaction to the emotions she's experiencing. And so she's not walking. And so she goes to therapy and all these things and Niecy, Nash plays her therapist, which I love.
Shy: Yeah, she was great.
Julia: I love that. She roasted her like, she's like, what's wrong with you, Devi like, I'm wearing this and you're not making fun of me. Like you're clearly not okay. I love that. That's another thing that I really loved. I loved her relationship with her therapist. I thought showing that much of her in therapy. Really good to help normalize the conversation. You know, it's okay to get help from someone who's a mental health professional.
Shy: And that's also a very taboo thing in the Indian community, getting mental health. It's, it's a struggle.
Julia: And, and, and I feel like that's true for a lot of cultures that are not white, but I can understand why it would be harder. And especially when you have, um, come from a culture that has been around for as long as an Indian culture or the Chinese culture, or, you know, some, some culture that's been existence for millennia. I do think though, so back to my point, I do think though I really love ha ha at the end of season two, how they kind of realized that like they need to learn how to build their own relationship.
Now that dad's gone and they, and they try. And I just, I loved that. I loved that sort of a resolution. It's gotta be hard to be. Well, I wouldn't say it is hard being a single parent. I totally get that, but I've never lost my beloved in that way. So I can't imagine what it's like to be going through grief, raising a they keep calling her a horny teen in all the reviews I've read and struggling with what that means. I loved that they showed her mom dating again and just building that relationship with common and how she sort of hid it from the family. Like, I can't tell you how many times I've told my son that I'm going to go and meet a friend for coffee, and it's a date cause like how do you talk to your children about that?
Like it's so awkward especially when it's just been like the two of you for so long, I also thought the Devi Paxton Ben dynamic, it was funny and it's
Shy: Funny or tragic?
Julia: I thought it was a little bit of both. It's a little bit of both, but I do love that in season two, we get more Paxton story and, you know, seen as this sort of dumb jock and a guy. And we
Shy: They definitely humanized him a lot in that season. And both of the boys, I think they did a good job of like giving them more nuance than just like the asshole nerd or the hi, the hot jock. Um,
Julia: yeah, they were just so cute. Anyway,
Shy: Who do you want her with more? You want Paxton,
Julia: I'm a sucker for a pretty boy.
Shy: Paxton is very sweet, but I feel like in the long run, Ben would be better for her because he can match wits with her. And I think she would need that in a relationship. Somebody that can like go head to head with her and like not put up with her shit.
Julia: Yes. Cause she'll get bored with Paxton at the end of the day, she's going to get bored with Paxton.
Shy: I think that's where it might be heading because it seems like towards the end of season two, like they were kind of hinting at it. Well, I mean, no, I'm not hinting. They like did it. And they,
Julia: yeah, I think so. And he's going through his own emotions too, because he's realizing that people only see him as a jock as a pretty face. And he believes that he's more than that. So like that struggle, I thought I was like, thank you for giving us that, because I think we do forget sometimes that, like there could be a little bit more to somebody than just a pretty face and a hot body and he's over 18. So it's okay that I say those things,
Shy: I think in real life, he's like 25.
Julia: Yeah. I,
Shy: same as the girl who plays Eleanor, I swear she's been playing a teenager for the past like 10 years.
Julia: Oh, it's like, it's like that took from Party of Five who was in Mean Girls. She played Gretchen Wieners.
Shy: Oh yeah. She played teenager for a long time.
Julia: For the longest time. And when she was playing a teenager and Mean Girls, I was like, girl, aren't you like my age or older than me? Like, you were like the mid daughter on Party of Five. I'm confused.
Shy: Yeah. I think like, oh gosh, like there's been a ton of like Gabrielle Union and Bianca Lawson played a teenager. Well into her late, late twenties but she does very young.
Julia: When I realized how old Gabrielle Union really was, I was just like, I don't know how to handle this because you're the villain and 10 Things I Hate About You.
Shy: That's what I always think about when I think of her.
Julia: You're supposed to be sophomore season to release on July 15th, 2021. And I gobbled it up like, like I watched it in a day. It was like, don't bother me. I'm watching season two of Never Have I Ever. Indie wire issued it a grade, A minus and had this to say Never Have I Ever season two is just as delightful, funny and relatable as season one thinks in large part to its cast. Here I go with the last names. Listen, I'm going to spell it for you. You're going to tell me how to say it. Okay.
Shy: Okay. Wait, who don't tell me the character's name. I'll pull up the IMDB. So you tell me they're characters name.
Julia: I'm pretty sure I can tell you it's the lead girl, Devi because I'm realizing that. Yeah, it's Devi and then, um, her mom.
Shy: Okay. So these are South Indian names, so they're a little bit different than what I'm used to.
Julia: Okay.
Shy: Okay. So let's see. So the Devi's name is Maitreyi Ramakrishnan
Julia: Ramakrishnan
Shy: yeah.
Julia: Okay.
Shy: And Poorna Jagannathan
Julia: Jagannathan
Shy: probably Jagannathan
Julia: I love her on Instagram. By the way.
Shy: I don't follow body
Julia: Her instagram handles hilarious.
Shy: What is it?
Julia: I am it's it's it gives me it now I got to pull it up.
Shy: Okay. Paxton is 30 years old,
April 27th, 1991.
Julia: You blew my mind just now in case you are curious,
Shy: Devi is almost 20 in real life.
Julia: Wow. That's a big, that's a, that's a, that's a Hollywood age gap right there. I feel like.
Shy: And Ben Gross is 21. In real life. Sorry, I don't know if you actually even want to know about this, but yeah.
Julia: Oh, I love that stuff. I just, I knew I quickly looked to make sure Paxton was over 18 before I was like, thought boy, it's hot. Cause it's, you know, it's a thing. I don't want to feel like a weird, dirty old lady,
Shy: You know, who we didn't talk about yet, but I actually really enjoy too. Was Kamala I really liked, I liked the actor. I think she's beautiful. And I really enjoy her character to cause you. I also think because Indian people get pushed to be like doctors and scientists a lot that they kind of had to go with that stereotype that she's going to be like the smart one, but she's also so pretty that like, people are like, really, you are a doctor, you're going to be a scientist. Okay.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. And you really see that in season two, she's getting underestimated. Like she makes this breakthrough thing and doesn't get credited on the report. And the guy she's seeing was like, well, you know, he's like supportive of her, but like, I, I, I loved that whole lot, that whole segment for her and season 2 cause in season one, it was a lot of. You know, here's, you know, we're going to do this arranged marriage and here's your future husband. And she's dating somebody already and doesn't really want to go back to India and all these things. But in season two, I think they really gave her a lot more, especially something as super relatable, because as women that's a constant thing, right?
Like we're doing all this work and then somebody else takes the credit. And I love that. She was like, my name needs to be on this report. Like I found this, this is my finding. It's like, get it girl. That's right. Give us the language to stand up for ourselves because teenage girls everywhere I need to know like, it's okay to stand up for yourself when you're the one who deserves the credit.
Shy: Yup.
Julia: I love how it, Debbie was always like, you know, nobody knows how nerdy you are because you're so pretty.
Shy: I do wish that they had more cultural things going on in the show. Like in the first season, they did go to like a prayer thing at the school, which I thought was really cool because I am not hindering myself, but I have a lot of family that are so I like recognized it.
Um, even the way that they dressed and stuff was a lot different than what my family does, but I do wish they had kind of embraced more things. Even they, the mom went to India and I don't even feel like you really got to experience like. The Indian culture stuff in that,
Julia: go ahead.
Shy: I just wish that they had gone to like an Indian wedding or something, or maybe they were trying to lead up to that with the Kamala thing. And she was going to get married or whatever. So you could see Indian wedding. That's always like the big thing that when people find out I'm Indian, they're like, oh my gosh, I love Indian weddings.
They're so beautiful and colorful. I'm like, really? You think they're beautiful and colorful. I never heard that before.
Julia: Like if I were to ever fall in love and marry a Black guy, we would totally jump the broom because that's very uniquely a Black experience, but that would never be something that I would incorporate into my wedding.
That's it? Well, yeah, I don't, I wouldn't incorporate that if I didn't marry, um, a Black man. But I think it's interesting. Like I just saw on Instagram the other day, um, a friend of mine went to an Indian wedding and they, and she were saree and she was totally decked out and she looked beautiful and everyone in the wedding looked beautiful, but it just, it was interesting to me cause I thought, you know, that's the thing that we see a lot with people who marry into an Indian family, they'll do the traditional and then, and, or they'll have an American, you know, type wedding.
But in my mind, like if I'm married a white guy, we're not jumping the broom, like that is reserved for my future husband who is Black. So then of course I want to fall down this rabbit hole, which I don't have time for of the difference between like, you know, the, the, the merging of the cultures when you have like, uh, an, uh, somebody from Indian descent and a white person getting married compared to like the. Cultural differences when like a Black person in a white person get married. Like I don't have that kind of time, but it's definitely on my list of things to like fall down the rabbit hole and find.
Shy: I feel like religion plays a big part of it as well, because I didn't have an Indian wedding, but I'm also not Hindu.
So I didn't have to have that kind of ceremony. But I just laid this past summer. I went to a wedding when my cousin got married and she's in the, that oh, white guy. And they had like a full-on Indian wedding because that's just when you're Hindu, that's what you do.
Julia: Oh, oh, this is my ignorance showing I didn't realize it was tied to religion.
Shy: Mm. I mean, I could have brought in elements of my Indian ness, my heritage into my wedding, which it kind of did with like music and food and stuff like that. But like, it was a pretty, um, westernized wedding.
Julia: Gotcha. Interesting. Okay. Add to my list of things. I'm going to dive in, learn about I thank you. I had no idea. And if it weren't for Mindy Kaling I don't know if we would have had this conversation. And then that makes me feel like a bad friend.
Shy: Not at all. At least you're asking.
Julia: Yeah. I'm so curious about other cultures. Yeah. Do you wish I would. I wish I was able to make more time to learn more and do better. Um, I was just recently telling a friend that my, my job is currently sucking my soul. So I barely have time to shower. Right. It's hard to function when your soul is being sucked out of your body. Uh, um, anyway, the Indie Wire article basically was saying like these two are MVPs and there's not even like a sour note in the entire show.
And I think, I agree because from season one to season two, we have so much growth for the characters. Like we talked about Paxton having his, um, getting more about him and realizing that he wants more for himself. And then, you know, Devi's mom with common. Who's Dr. Johnson. Jackson Chris Jackson. Oh my gosh. And how like devastated Devi was like how angry she was when she found out that her mom was like, maybe dating.
Shy: Again, putting her down on a pedestal is like not, she does, I don't, she wasn't ready for that. And I also, I think it didn't help that her mom was sneaking around because her mom does sneak around, you know? And then it was kind of hypocritical over.
Julia: Yeah. Uh, it's hard. I mean that whole thing. I was like, man, I get why she's sneaking her out. Cause that's hard to date when you have a teenager or just a child in general. What did you think of Devi listening to her dad's voice fell on repeat whenever she was down.
Shy: Like, I guess how it as a coping mechanism, but also like that can't be a good way to move on past the trauma, you know, to just keep living in that sadness. But it was, I mean, it broke my heart when the phone died. Oh, the phone broke and she like lost that part of her dad. Like, I can, I can imagine how, how she might feel about that.
So I don't think it was healthy to continuously listen to it over and over again. And I feel like she kind of used it as a justification of her mistakes a lot of the time. Cause I would always be like, you're my perfect girl. And she's like, I didn't do anything wrong because I'm my dad's perfect girl. And like she needed those people to call her out on her bullshit that, um, maybe contradicted what her dad said. And so it kind of, maybe it was really hard to hear.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. That's gotta be hard to lose the one person in your life who thinks you can do no wrong. But then on the other hand, like you have to have that balance. Like her friends totally call her out because she does do some shitty stuff. Oh my gosh. Her new friend, we didn't even talk about her new friend yet.
Shy: Oh yeah. She's so cute.
Julia: And the whole bit about like, because you know, for those of you listening, Devi's two best friends are Eleanor who is of Asian descent and Fabiola who is Afro Latina is what I was thinking. Cause her name is FaBiola. I think seeing an unfair assumption, but I don't know any Black girls named Fabiola so I was leaning towards she's probably Afro-Latina and somebody could totally correct me if I'm wrong because life. So she doesn't have a close friend who is of the same sort of cultural background.
So then this new girl comes to school and she's cool and she's fun. And she's like just super rad. And everybody calls her. I think they refer to her as. The cool Indian girl or something like that. And so Devi's immediately like, hold up, Indian girl is my territory, who is this B and then they eventually become friends.
But I thought her moment of realization of needing a friend who is culturally the same or similar was kind of a big point of the show because she's, you know, she comes into the house and she's like, yes, hi auntie, and all this stuff that, you know, taking the shoes off and it's not an issue. And, you know, she just understands like, like she's happy about the food snacks that her mom's made her, like, just this sort of validation of like, Debbie's not weird.
These things that her family does. Aren't weird because this friend is like, oh, I love this. And yes, and totally understands how to interact. And I guess, because I'm biracial it's different because there's things where it's just like, I don't know, all my friends are white, so it's like, no, you can't really let you not.
So you really can't talk to you. You need to be mindful about my like having, so I here's where I'm going Shy, I promise I have a point.
Shy: That's okay.
Julia: Having to explain to my friends when I had grandparents still alive, like here's the way that you should probably interact with my grandparents. Like these are, this is, you know, this is how you need to, uh, um, engage with them. If we go to their house, you can't like, you literally can't do X, you know, like you need to refer to them as this. This is what we need, you know, kind of stuff. Whereas, you know, some of my friends who are come from like a background. Not the same background, but they come from like a cultural background will be like, you know, a little bit like you don't have to have the same.
You don't have to have that conversation. So seeing her not have to have that conversation and have that hurdle, and then her mom saying something like, now this is how your friends should be something like that. Like I love this girl. So I dunno, was that like impactful? Cause to me from the outsider, it felt impactful to me, but I don't know. From your perspective.
Shy: So as far as that, um, when they actually started being friends, I thought it reminded me a lot of being little because growing up, I was really lucky to live in a place where I lived. I grew up in San Jose, so I was super multi-cultural. Like all my classmates were Vietnamese Mexican, white, Black, Indian. Like, there was a huge market board of people that I got to grow up with. So it wasn't weird for me to have other Indian people around. And in fact, growing up, I think that all the only friends that I ever had, like come to my house, really, I have like one white friend that lived around the corner, so she would come over.
But like the only other friends that would come over where my other Indian. And so I was like, that was just a regular thing for me to constantly interact with other Indian people. One thing that I, that did strike something in me was how jealous she felt, the cool Indian girl being like the nerdy weird Indian girl, because I have definitely felt that way before.
And you know, you like, try not to be like, oh, you should be empowering. Other women don't be jealous, but like, you can't help it. When you see somebody else that you feel like is way prettier or way cooler or way like more put together than you. And you compare yourself. Like, I've definitely been. In that position where I'm like, oh, she's like the better version of me.
So I, I totally, I guess I get that.
Julia: And then too of their peers are kind of like, acknowledging it too, like, oh, this is the better one. And the better version. So that's not helpful. Cause Devi already has like this complex going on with herself. So I get, I mean, I get that. Did you have a favorite, like storyline specific, like to a character or just in general?
Cause there was a lot of like, obviously we have Devi storyline, but then there's a lot of like smaller ones throughout too. Like we've got Fabiola having a girlfriend and her relationship and then the, you know, how she's responding with her mom and then you have. Like we've talked about Paxton side story already, a couple times, little, little sprinklings in there, or even her friends, the new friends storyline, like with the history behind, you know, why she had to leave her other school and came to this school. Was there one that you really like resonated with the most?
Shy: I, so there was a couple of little side relationships that I really enjoyed. Like I loved Devi and her therapist. I loved Devi and her teacher, the Indian teacher, which I thought was really cute. And it was pleased.
Julia: He plays her brother Mindy Kaling's his brother on the Mindy Project.
Shy: Yeah. It was Utkarsh Ambudkar I probably butchered that myself too.
Julia: He's also very handsome.
Shy: He is very, very cute. Yes. I agree. He's really funny too.
Julia: He was in this movie called Blindspotting and then they brought him back on the show for the season, season one finale because they did a show spinoff and I was like, oh, Yes. I need him in everything I will stare at you for ever.
Shy: He also plays, um, he's he's in Mira, the Royal detective. He plays one of Myra's little pets, the little mongooses that,
so I really love that relationship. Um, who else did I really? Oh, you know what? I really loved. I really loved it. Paxton's relationship with his sister too.
Julia: Yes.
Shy: That was a really cute, it was like very humanizing for him. And she was not afraid to ever call out his bullshit too, which I thought was really,
Julia: oh, Paxton, eh mixed kids. Super I'm here for all the mixed representation. I don't care what you're mixed is.
Shy: Yeah there was a lot.
Julia: How about how her teacher was all up on Kamala?
Shy: Oh yeah. I thought that was real. I saw that coming. I saw that coming.
Julia: I was like, oh, you guys would be so cute. I ship you. Is that a thing? Do kids still do that? Do they still share?
Shy: Do they, I still say it.
Julia: So on August 19th, Netflix announced that they're going to come back for season three for Never Have I Ever. And I'm so excited. Oh, before we get into that, what did you think? Cause you know, John McEnroe is like the narrator for the whole thing, but then in season two they had what's
Huddy Paxton's yes.
What did you think about that? Cause a lot of people were like, Nope, not here for it. I loved it.
Shy: I love to do well in this first season they had Andy Sandberg be the voice for Ben.
Julia: Oh, that's right.
Shy: In his like episode where they talked about him and I thought it was really, like, I thought Gigi had, when I first heard Gigi Hadid and I was like, that's a weird choice, but it kind of made sense. Like there'll always just been thought of for their looks and like not for their brains and for everything I've heard about. Gigi Hadid she seems like a cool person. So I don't know.
Julia: Mixed girl, which is pretty clever. Like I was like, I love that they have also somebody who is mixed being the narrator for somebody who's mixed. I don't know if that was the intention, but if it was good job, Never Have I Ever.
Shy: I, I appreciate it. And it, I always liked those episodes too, because I feel like it's very humanizing for that character. It gives you like other options of what you may think they might be.
Julia: I would like to see. Okay. So let's talk about season three because we're getting it. I'm very excited about that. And I just feel like, give us, give us her all the way through high school.
Just give us all the way through high school. Cause I need to see where this goes. What do you want to see in season three? And should they introduce new characters? Because I think the show is fine the way it is now with the characters that they have. Like, I think they could go deeper.
Shy: I, I want to see more Indian events shown in the, in the show in the season three, like a wedding or another prayer service or like. Like Indian, like they're in high school. Well, okay. So Devi and any sort of like the only Indians in the school. So I guess their school wouldn't have like a Indian night or like a talent show or whatever, like minded minded have, have, like what Indian stuff going on all the time in my high school. And I was a dancer, so I always had to, oh, that is another thing.
The actress that plays Kamala is a professionally trained dancer, Indian answer, like how I used to do it. And so I would love, love if they had her do a performance on the show. Yeah. There's actually a really cool YouTube video, um, where they, um, Debbie and Camilla did a dance. It was like a, just an ad for the show, but it was really cool.
And you can see that she's a really good dancer. So I would love to see like a performance on the show, um, or like a wedding or something. Something that just like screams Indian.
Julia: Is there a significant, so you're like, you know, in the Mexican culture, they have the Quincieneria and then in, for Jewish folks, they, you know, have their bat mitzvah bar mitzvah.
Is there a significant birthday celebration that happens in the Indian culture? Again, this is my ignorance showing, well,
Shy: I don't think it's like a traditional thing. Like, but in my family we always do sweet sixteens for the girls. Um, like I had a huge sweet 16 birthday party and my cousins all did too, but that's not really like a, a regional thing. That's just probably a family thing, but they could do something like that.
Julia: I mean, I, in our family, we literally celebrate everything. You made it home safe. Let's celebrate everyone got vaccinated. We're celebrating.
Shy: That is something to celebrate.
Julia: Yeah. You got an, A on your test. Let's celebrate it. We're such celebratory people that it, I think it, it, I, my former brother-in-law could not handle how often we celebrated, just like it's, you know, cause he doesn't come from a family culture that does that.
So for me, I'm like, mental note you, you need to either lie to me or like my partner, future partner. needs a lie to me about being okay with all the celebrating or you just need to be okay with all the celebrating because we're not, not celebrating.
Shy: Yeah.
Julia: Do you want to see more growth between Devi and Ben in season three or do like, what do you think the natural trajectory for that will be for season three?
Shy: So, I don't know about season three in general, but I feel like the natural trajectory for the show arc will be Devi with Paxton. Until the end. And I think that Ben is the end game, but maybe like a mature Devi you will be like, yes, Ben is my. Ah but also like she's in high school. So maybe he doesn't end up with anybody and that's totally fine too.
Julia: I would love to see that. I would love to see her grow out of being boy crazy and just like still having a healthy like but not necessarily in season three. This is why I need, I need, we need her for all of high school, because I want to see her grow and develop out of being super boy crazy and into more like, yes, I want a relationship.
Yes, I'm a horny girl. But also I have these bigger things that I want to achieve. Like, I'd love to see that in the course of her entire high school career. So Netflix and Mindy Kaling if you are listening, I need to see DEvi graduated from high school. I need that emotional. Payout for all of this experience, I would, it would be interesting to see to what her relationship with.
I can't remember the new girl's name to save my, thank you. What that looks like too, because she and Ben kind of got a little cozy there for awhile and Devi did not like that.
Shy: Didn't they? Did she end up with somebody at the end?
Julia: She did. Yeah.
Shy: Who did she ended up with, I can't remember.
Julia: I don't remember. I don't remember either, but they kind of like were teasing her, but she didn't know that they were teasing her because like, you know, they would like. They, they bonded a little bit. She and Ben, but then, you know, they realized it's not going to be anything. And I would like to see something more with Kamala and the fellow she's dating and see where that goes.
Shy: I get, I feel, I felt really bad for her in that scene where she like ran from her future. Her, her fiance came with his parents and she's like, Nope, not yet.
Julia: As an outsider who literally can't find anybody, uh, to fall in love with her at the idea of an arranged marriage is very appealing at this point in my life. But not my parents. I don't want my parents to pick that person. I found all of that representation. I always find that representation fascinating, the arranged marriage stuff.
I just find it so fascinating because you hear such a mix of, well, they never fall in love or they eventually fall in love. It's like always one or the other. And I appreciate that they, they show her. Because she was conflicted in the season one too, about the person that she was supposed to be supposedly, you know, choosing or whatever.
Netflix did a show called Indian matchmaker.
Shy: I did not watch that, but I did hear about it.
Julia: It was really interesting as an outsider. Right. Cause I don't know. I come from Italians and Black people. They're just like, yes, baby. Get married at 20. No, don't tell us that. I mean, not everyone just in my family .
Was there. Okay. Now we're getting personal. Was there ever any pressure for you to like get into an arranged marriage situation?
Shy: Not really. For me only because. I was always very outspoken against it. And I was always like, uh, the rebel child now when I was a child. But like once I got into my late twenties, late teens and early twenties, like I was obviously like the rebel kid, um, and out there doing my own thing.
And like, my parents were like, she's not gonna do that. Um, but my parents have an arranged marriage and luckily. So this is funny, but when my mom first met my dad, she was like, hell no, I'm not marrying this dork. And my dad's very nerdy. That's where I get it from. And she was. But I guess he's like my key outta here.
Cause they were in the Fiji islands and she didn't want to live there anymore. She wanted to come to America. My dad already lived out here and she was like, I guess that's whatever. She was like 17. It was her first opportunity to get, you know, out of her situation. And so she married my dad and they've been married now for 40 years and they're very happy now.
Like they fell in love with each other. Thank goodness. And they have a great marriage, but like, I don't want that. I didn't want that for myself. Like I I'm like, okay, so you can't get mad at me cause he brought me to America and you raised me in America and now I'm going to think like an American and I want a marriage from love. Not because you know, my parents forced me to get married and arranged marriage is still around. Um, but it's more like, oh, I know this boy that might be a good, like, people, like more people have a actual input now than how they used to. Like, my mom didn't really have much of a choice. She had like between two guys to choose from. And she had to say yes to one of them. Thank God she chose my dad
Julia: We're all grateful for that that. Cause we love you.
Shy: Them. But now it's more of like a choice and more and more, at least in America, it's like more of a choice for the young people now. And like they have options or not get arranged marriage, but like there's still like Indiana only online matchmaking. That's still very popular. Oh yeah. Like hugely popular. So
Julia: Interesting.
Shy: Or like getting married for a green card.
Julia: Yeah.
Shy: Stuff like that. It's still around. It's just not it wasn't for.
Julia: I get that at 18, 19 20 shit, even 30, you know, this whole, like you will do this. Will I though? that's cute. And I always understood because we're so indoctrinated with a frickin Anglo culture, you know, as much as we want to acknowledge that we're not, we really, and truly are to an extent.
I always understood it as like, you know, the princess of England is going to marry the prince of Germany, so we don't war each other because we're family. So I think that's probably why I'm so fascinated by cultures who like, literally just do arranged marriages because that's the norm. And not because you're trying to have world peace, which ultimately failed anyway. Those European marriages didn't do shit for peace. If you ever sit and watch Indian Matchmaker, I would love to know your thoughts and opinions about it. Because again, as an outsider, it's this show that letting us end to what it's like, like the matchmaker literally is told by one of the moms, like we'd prefer like a lighter skinned, you know? And I was just like, the fuck.
Shy: Oh, Indians are extremely colorist extremely. Oh yeah. It's awful. They can be awful. My like my sister is a darker tone skin than I am. And, but we basically have the same face and people have told her like, oh, you're, you're so pretty, but your skin so dark. Oh my God. And I have a cousin that like, seriously, she could be a model. If she was a couple of inches taller, she's so pretty. But she's got darker skin. And so people are always like, oh, it's such a sad thing that your skin so dark.
Julia: Oh my God.
Shy: It's a very, it's a very colorist.
Mind frame. That's a lot of Indians have.
Julia: That's wild. I'm used to colorism in the Black community. Right. And like people say all the time to me, why wouldn't have known if I didn't know your dad and just, and then I have people who are like, no, that girl is totally black. I'm just like, whatever you want to see is what you see homie.
Like just don't fucking kill me. That statement was what opened my eyes to like, oh, other like minority groups and like people of color groups have the same experience with like this proximity to lightness and whiteness. Like what, like I was like 36 years old when I learned that, which felt like man, our education system is such a failure.
Final thoughts. Okay. And the final thing I want to talk about is do you think. Okay. going back to Paxton.
Do you think Paxton will have like a moment and just kind of prove everybody wrong?
Shy: That he's just a pretty face?
Julia: That he's more than a pretty face?
Shy: I think so. I definitely think the scene where he brought his grandpa to school to talk about, um, what he had gone through as a child in the internment camps. I think that really helped people see him as not just a pretty face. I feel like even the teacher who had been like underestimating him that whole time and, and maybe not underestimating him and just like rising to what was like passion, just kind of. Relied on his pretty face for the most part. And so he didn't even try.
So the teacher was just used to that. And the fact that he finally did try a little bit, I think was I, I think we're going to see Paxton in a new light in the next season coming up. Um,
Julia: I really appreciated that they broke his arm and forced him into this position of having to like reckon with himself. Cause it is really hard when you are like an attractive human and then something goes wrong. And then what makes you, you is no longer an option. You have to dig deeper. And I really appreciate that they framed it in the way that they framed it for Paxton. And he's like, I loved his relationship with him and his grandpa.
I thought that was so sweet.
Shy: Oh yeah.
Julia: I also hope that Devi gets, like I said, I hope she gets more growth to next year or next season, which will probably be next year. Who knows when they're going to film. Do you have anything else that you want to, that we didn't touch on that you want to bring up?
Shy: No, I think, I think that I was just really happy to have a show that made like it.
Maybe not wasn't in my own, you know, my own experience, but I was a young, teenage Indian person like living that life. So it was nice seeing somebody that reminded me of me on television.
Julia: Yeah. Because who knows if streaming services lasts forever, but how great will that be for your daughter to like, hopefully this opens the doors for more stories and more, um, but you know what? It never does, which I don't want to be a pessimist, but it, like, we always think hopefully it'll open more doors, but then it never fucking does. And that's so irritating. So like I'm publicly here to say, I need more stories from Indian content creators. So Netflix. Let's do it find, find us, tap that talent, Hulu.
I don't give a shit. Who does it. Give them the opportunity. Because I'm so curious now. And I noticed last year after watching Never Have I Ever, actually went through and read three different books by Indian writers. And I don't know if I would have done that. If it hadn't been for like the show coming out and me being like, oh, I'm so curious to learn like more about the Indian American experience and that way, like I would to my own debt, you know, to my own ignorance, it wasn't.
I was so busy dealing with my own hurdles and struggles as a biracial person in America that it never occurred to me that. Learn more about another culture that, cause I'm never misidentified as an Indian person. I miss identified as, um, you know, Mexican or Puerto Rican. So, you know, I fall down those, those rabbit holes of like, here's why I'm not that.
Shy: Oh, I get misidentified all the time.
Julia: Really?
Shy: People think I'm Hispanic all the time.
Julia: Oh my goodness.
Shy: My mom too. My mom has very short brown hair and she, she does look like she could be and people get upset sometimes when we're like, I'm, I'm not, I'm not Hispanic at all. I'm so sorry. Or I've been called a bad Mexican before for not knowing that speak Spanish. And I'm like, no, I'm a bad Indian because they don't know how to speak Hindi I'm not a bad Mexican
or like middle Eastern. I've got an Italian before. Uh, my sister has been misidentified as like half Black before. Um, yeah, I get that.
Julia: Wild. I mean, it's not that wild. It's just the shit we're in, you know, people don't know what to record, you know? Equate you to what they are most familiar with, whether or not it's right or wrong, forgetting that, you know, we're a wide variety of lots of things.
Shy: The worst is when I get misidentified as middle Eastern, almost only because, uh, it usually stemming from a place of ignorance and.
Julia: Yeah, that's gotta be hard. I mean, it's hard to be brown in America, period. The end, you could have a date. Yeah. You could go a whole day and not have anything happen to you. And then, then the next three weeks, you know, you've got shit coming at you or you're just fuck that one day was so nice. And for some people that day never comes. They just have every single day as a hurdle and a struggle because of the body they're in and that's just not okay. And again, stems from ignorance and a lack of understanding and or refusal to learn.
That's what I've noticed. Shy. I just love it when you come by.
Shy: We kinda to ended it on a bummer note. I'm sorry. Okay.
Julia: Let's let's end on a high listen on a better note. Okay. Uh, Mindy Kaling's movie Late Night. I mean again. Oh my God. I love it.
Shy: I know it's on my list of things because I also love Emma Thompson, so I don't know why I haven't watched it yet, but I haven't got a chance to.
Julia: She wrote that role specifically for Emma Thompson with her in mind. I didn't even know her. She was like, I'm going to write this and then we'll see. And I just love that Emma Thompson was like, I'm going to end Amy. Ryan's in it again. I love Mindy Kaling's loyalty to her Office cast. You know, I just think that's so wonderful. You ha she's so funny. She's like, you know, 30 plus year old coming from some, I don't know.
Bio something industry and wants to be a comedy writer. And I'm just like, I Mindy Kaling you're giving me that I could be 30 something potential comedy writer. First time comedy writer for a late night talk show. No I can't. But Mindy Kaling made me think I can.
Shy: You can, who says you can't?
Julia: I don't know the world does the world doesn't want what I'm putting out there. Shy, nobody gives us, but I do like work so hard. I'm so tired. Anyway. Anyway, I do recommend that movie and listeners. You have to watch Never Have I Ever it's so good. There is something in there for everybody. Even if you don't identify with the cultural aspect of the show, there is a character in the show for everyone that keeps you coming back and wanting to continue the story. Better note to end on that was a better note to end on?
And Shy is probably going to come back for all the Marvel things, because now she's our resident Marvel expert.
Shy: I know what we miss something.
Julia: We'll have to get that on the books. Cause I, you know, what's interesting. Oh my God. You know how they put Black Widow on, um, direct access premier access and in the movie.
Shy: Yeah, I know what they lost and then they got their lawsuits.
Julia: But you know what they didn't do to Shang Chi.
Shy: Disney plus.
Julia: Yup.
Shy: So they are, they're going to do it, uh, November 12th or something like that. And they're going to theme it. They didn't call it Disney plus day.
Julia: They didn't do premiere access like they did with Black. So it's interesting. So now I'm like did that, so I got to find time to find the internet. Did you make that decision because of the Black Widow lawsuit or was that always the plan?
Shy: I kind of want to say that they always had as the plan, just because I don't remember hearing anything about Shang Chi she coming to Disney Plus I think it was always a plan to do only movie theaters and see how well it did so that they know what to do for the Eternals.
Yeah. Oh, which I'm also very excited about, but also I'm like, you fucking fucked up Scarlett Johannson. Like that's messed up, man. It makes me mad and I love Disney. I do. I'm like the biggest Disney person, but I'm still like for shame. I'm team ScarJo on that one.
Julia: Amen. Yes. Cause come on. Whatever. But you'll have to come back. When I have time to write the, when we have time to talk about Shang Chi I guess it's going to have to be after premier access. Cause it's been so long since I've seen it. Now that I can't.
Shy: I know me too. I want to wait and then we can probably do like Shang Chi and the Eternals close by to each other. I don't mind go see that.
Julia: All that to say Shy will be back. I'm very excited. Our Loki episode will come out. Um, the day that Hawkeye airs. As always friends, if you want to keep up with us in between shows, you can find us on Instagram at pop culture makes me jealous. And if you haven't already be sure to like subscribe or leave a review of the show, wherever you find your podcasts, unless it's Spotify, because on Spotify, you cannot leave a review, but anywhere else, go ahead and do that.
Thanks for tuning in and y'all until next time.
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