Lady Bird | 12
Show Notes:
This coming-of-age movie stars Soairse Ronan, Laurie Metcalf, and Timothee Chalamate and was released on September 1, 2017. Written and directed by Greta Gerwig, Lady Bird takes place in the early aughts, the era of my own high school days. Lady Bird McPherson is artistically inclined, restless, and in regular conflict with her mother.
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous where we discuss pop culture through the lens of race or gender. And sometimes both. I'm your host, Julia Washington. And on today's show, I'm discussing the 2017 coming of age, movie lady bird, my guest today, you know her, she was here back in January to discuss Asian American representation, media, Amy Albertson.
Amy: Hello? Hello. I'm so excited to be back. And I'm really excited to talk about lady bird, because lady bird is my life on screen, basically.
Julia: Hey friends, love our show, but hate the commercials. Become a pop culture club member on Patrion for $10 a month to receive ad free episodes with bonus content bonus episodes of virtual meetup to discuss movies and television, and so much more to learn more about how to become one of our Patrion pals visit pop culture makes me jealous.com or visit the link in our show notes.
Julia: This coming of age, movie star Serratia, Ronan, Laurie Metcalf, and Timothy Shalla may and was released on September 1st, 2017 written and directed by Sacramento native Greta Gerwig Ladybird takes place in the early aughts. The era of my own high school days, lady Berg, MacPherson is artistically inclined, restless, and in regular conflict with her mother.
Julia: But before we dive in, let me reintroduce you to my guest. Amy Albertson is a Jew. Advocate and educator from California while living in Israel for six years, she created the Asian Israeli where she cataloged her experience as a Chinese American Jewish woman. She is an active online voice for mixed Jews, particularly highlighting her experience as an Asian American Jewish.
Julia: She is the absolute perfect choice for this episode because her connection to Sacramento,
Amy: Amy, welcome back. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you from Sacramento. Actually.
Julia: I'm no
Amy: shame. I'm one of those pandemic people who moved back in with her parents. We are,
Julia: I feel like that's a lot of people because the world's just cruel.
Amy: I feel like lady bird is. We were to have like a where's lady bird now might be in my situations somewhat. Yeah,
Julia: 100%. Okay. So friends, um, this is not necessarily a spoiler free episode. So if you haven't seen the movie, sorry. Um, but we're going to give you a quick summary of the film. So you have an idea of where we're going.
Julia: And to be honest, I, I had, I literally had nothing in me to write my own summary. So I pulled this from Google and I apologize because it's Google no offense to Google, but sometimes it's not, it's not the most deep and thoughtful or insightful summaries. A nurse works tirelessly to keep her family of flow.
Julia: After her husband loses his job, she also maintains a turbulent bond with her teenage daughter who is just like her loving strong-willed and deeply opinionated. So you understand now why I prefaced it with Google? That's a Google.
Amy: That's such a weird summary because it's centered on the mom, but yeah, movie.
Amy: About lady
Julia: bird, I'd say. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think I thought that was interesting too, but the headlines and reviews in 2017, we're going to give you a quick highlight. The new Yorker ran a headline, Greta Gerwig, exquisite. Lady bird, the New York times headline Greta Gerwig lady Berg is big screen perfection Vox.
Julia: This headline said, lady bird is not just one of 20 seventeens best films. It's a beautiful, hilarious act of love. Inboxes review writer, Alissa Wilkinson had this to say there's a remarkable amount of depth beneath this. Apparently conventional arc in lady Berg, Gerwig has taken the familiar teenage girl coming of age plot and turned it into something rather extraordinary and carefully observed the kind of movie that actually reveals layers on repeated viewing.
Julia: It's not too often that we get a coming of age story that takes place in a city like Sacramento. And while SAC and Modesto are worlds apart, there are enough similarities that makes this film even more special to those who spent their adolescents in this part of California. So, Amy, I'm going to start with the most obvious question.
Julia: What was your overall impressions of this film?
Amy: I loved it. Um, I mean, I think this headlines definitely are doing it justice. It's a great film. Not just because I can relate to it on many more levels than probably the majority of viewers based on my life experience, which we'll get into. But I think it's also just, it has, so I'm kind of a sucker for like an indie feel.
Amy: And I feel like it has a bit of that indie feel like Greta Gerwig kind of has that, but this is not a low budget film. Like it has big names and it has high production, but it kind of still has that, which I really enjoyed. And I think that sometimes with indie films you have. There's like a lot of times a level of like, they're just not there yet.
Amy: They have a little bit of like that missing piece, but I felt like this had the Indy fuel, but it was there, if that makes any sense. So on those levels, I just think it's a great movie.
Julia: I agree with you. It does. I love that it had the indie feel. I think that's what made it feel so authentic in its storytelling too, because if you have a.
Julia: And they kind of do that. It will not, they, I feel like movie studios kind of do that generally, or they try to do that generally with, um, ho you know, coming of age, high school stories. Like when I think of like the perks of being a wallflower and, um, they tried to do it with love Simon, but it, you know, and there's like different.
Julia: It's not the same as when they were making it. 20 years ago about high school. They definitely try to give it that I don't know, authentic, raw feel.
Amy: Yeah. And it's kind of funny because as the high schooler of like me being like Ladybird or her friends, I would be into indie films. I was so cool. I would go to tower all the time, these tower theater, which they show many times a Sacramento staple.
Amy: And like, I'm like, yeah, Even like a blockbuster film, we'd be like, well, is it playing at the tower? Let's go to the tower. It's like, why do we want to go to the tower? It has way older shittier equipment. The seats are just like springy and creaky and not as good. And they smell musty. Like, why are we so pretentious?
Amy: But anyway, I think that adds a layer to like, why I love the film because I would have wanted an indie film. In that time as well.
Julia: Yeah. I love that. So did you relate to lady bird herself or summit or one of the other characters? It's really interesting
Amy: because when I originally watched it, I definitely was like, oh wow.
Amy: Like I lived ladybirds life. I went to, so in Sacramento there are three Catholic high schools. Um, Greta Gerwig went to one of them, which is St. Francis, which is what I think is called immaculate heart.
Julia: Yeah. The
Amy: boofy is based on, and then there's Jesuit, which is the boys high school. And then there's a third one that's not really mentioned, which is Christian brothers.
Amy: And that's actually where I went to high school. Um, so I went to Catholic high school in Sacramento, which is very much a part of this. Like, you know, they show them having mass together with the boys. So. Well, there's often like once a year, big mass with all three schools. Oh my God. That the cathedral in downtown Sacramento.
Amy: Um, and so literally like everything about it was just so mashed up to my life. I, so I always thought I related to Ladybird, but then upon watching it again for this podcast, I was like, wow. I think I'm maybe like, More of a Julie or I'm somewhere in between lady bird and Julie, because the thing that Julie does a lot that I really was like, oh, I think I'm the Julian, not the Ladybird is she's constantly putting herself as like second place.
Amy: You know, when they talk about like, when they see Danny for the first time and she's like, ladybirds, like look at him, you know? And Julie's like, Yeah, you should go for it. Cause I could never I'm just, and to me, I used to call myself the underachiever of the overachievers because I was like in the advanced classes, cause this was like a college prep high school.
Amy: That's why I went there and I was in the highest level of classes, but I was the one who was like scraping by all of my friends were so genius smart, like. Yeah. So I feel like I, a lot of times was like Julian putting myself as like the second best to everyone else to the ladybirds, I guess.
Julia: Yeah. It's like that scene when the math teacher's like, I lost my math book.
Julia: So I need you guys to tell me what your grades are. And she's like, I have a B Ladybird and he's like, are you sure it's more like a beam minus maybe like a C plus she's like, Nope, it's a B.
Amy: And Julie's like, And a minus and he's like, I think it was an a, and she's like, if you say so
Julia: beanie Feldstein, right?
Julia: Love her. Love her, love her, love her. I loved her in Booksmart. Oh my
Amy: God. And it looks smart as such a good movie, but we don't need to go on, we could go on a whole episode about Booksmart. I love that movie.
Julia: Yup. It's yeah. I took my son to see it and I was like, Was that awkward for you to watch that with your mom?
Julia: And he was like, no, it's fine. It's like, okay, cool. That's
Amy: good. That's good.
Julia: I also, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw my, my 2 cents in, I, um, totally related to lady bird, her desire to, you know, her restlessness and her desire to get out and sort of like, um, there's that scene where the guidance counselors like, oh my gosh, we have high sat score.
Julia: And better her grades. Aren't great. And you know, they're like, yeah, go to a state school. That'll be so good for you. And she's like, I'm not the whole fuck UC Davis. I'm not going to UC Davis like that. There was so much passion behind that. Emotion. And that's how I felt about CSU Stanislaus, which is like near ish, where we are, where I am.
Julia: It's like, I don't want to go to Stan state. What's the point of going off to college when you're going to just go 20 minutes away? Like I don't
Amy: get that. I mean, that was a huge sentiment. For everyone. I went to school with. It was like, it was like a joke in our school that if you went to Chico state, that's where like people who couldn't actually get into a school to go away would go to Chico state to go away in air quotes that no one can see me doing right now.
Amy: Um,
Julia: cause it's like a couple hours, right? It's like an hour and a half.
Amy: It's like an hour and a half. And it's like, you can go to SAC, state or SAC city and sorry for anyone who feels like it's weird for me to say SAC, but for
Julia: Sacramento people, it's very normal, very normal,
Amy: but my, I didn't learn until.
Amy: Sack. And it was like old SAC
Amy: um, yeah, so yeah, same exact same sentiment. It's like, everyone's like, if you don't go to college away and like away away, then you're like, no,
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. And poor Julie's like, I'm just going to go to SAC city, you know, it's just going to be fine. And, you know, lady bird's over here, like where can I go?
Julia: That's the farthest away from Sacramento?
Amy: I mean, well, yeah. And like when lady bird like drops the Yale bomb on the, on the college counselor, she's like, you like Yale, but like, obviously not yet. Cause I know I couldn't get in there, but you know what I mean? And it's just like Ladybird, you're a few degrees away.
Amy: From Yale even like, what are you think? Yeah.
Julia: Oh, I just love
Amy: her.
Amy: This episode
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Julia: L. For some of us may, maybe many of us, especially those of us who graduated high school near the time this film takes place. So it, so for the course of 2002, 2003, Ladybird graduates high school in 2003, just to reminder to all of our friends at home, I graduated high school in 2002. Um, so it, for me felt like Greta Gerwig perfectly captures the tone of this era.
Julia: But anyone who attended private religious school who was creatively inclined or generally restless and ready to move on in life will find camaraderie in this story. I think I want to talk a little bit more about the private, private religious school experience. The Hollywood reporter offered this sentiment in the review.
Julia: The Catholic school experience is rendered with hilarity, but again, without meanness and even with a sprinkling of generosity, the senior, none on the staff, the wonderful Lois Smith cuts through the BS to be real with lady bird and great fun is had with the school's theater productions. When the original faculty director of the Tempest bails out he's replaced by the school's football coach allowed mouth.
Julia: I forgot about the scene. And then when I watched it, I was dying a loud mouth who rambunctious really illustrates how the Shakespearian drama will be staged by diagramming a chalkboard with X's and O's and firmly drawn arrow, such a funny scene. It is
Amy: such a funny scene and he gave me like the meat, the vibes of like the coach in mean girls who teaching sex ed, um, and also it's extremely accurate.
Amy: I was taught driver's ed by PE coaches.
Amy: That's who I it's just like, I don't, I don't understand. Is that like a thing in schools where it's like any extra random. Topics, they just like give it to
Julia: the football coach, coaches
Amy: or football coaches.
Julia: I've let it go. Just, you know, that's not been my experience with private religious. Well, so the parlors or school I went to wasn't Catholic.
Julia: It was, um, oh, it's a Christian. And I say that weirdly. Um, but we didn't have, like our PE teachers were our teachers. Like they weren't a separate entity. I also didn't go to high school in, in the private religious sector. Like at the time, like the end of seventh grade, I was like, get me out of the shit. I can't, I just can't anymore.
Julia: Um, I actually, no, halfway through eighth grade, I was like, I'm done. I can't anymore. This is like, awful send me to public school. Um, but with the whole comment that Laurie Metcalf's character says, Miguel saw somebody knifed in front of me has to go to immaculate heart. I guess I'm just like curious, like.
Julia: Tell me more about the high school experience in Sacramento. And because that's Laurie Metcalf worry that the bird's going to get caught up in something that's when you get naive, that's why she has to go to the Catholic school, but they don't seem like a religious family. And so my experience was we had people who sent their kids to the school because they thought it was safer and they weren't religious.
Julia: So they made a ruckus during chap. So
Amy: at least for in Sacramento. So in Sacramento, the Catholic schools are like the academic most like academically advanced. That's why I went because I'm Jewish, as my
Julia: bio said, 300 times Jewish girl, Jewish, Jewish,
Amy: Jewish. Um, so I'm Jewish, but I went to this Catholic high school and actually there were a number of Jews there.
Amy: Um, and that's just because it's, it was called. Yeah. So I was like big nerdy, academically, inclined all through everything. And then ironically, when I went to high school, I was like, I hate school now. But, um, yeah, so I chose, I was like, mom, dad, can I apply to this private Catholic high school? And they're like, if that's what you want to do, like okay.
Amy: Apply. And I got in and then I went there and that was that. But, um, Yeah, the other schools are just not known to be as academically advanced. And I guess, yeah, there's like a stigma on public school, uh, in Sacramento. And I guess in a lot of places, probably in America, um, my brother went to the local.
Amy: Public high school. He was like, hell no, I'm going to Catholic school.
Julia: Oh, that's funny. That's interesting. And I actually, when you brought up, uh, was it the Jesuit school? Jesuit?
Amy: Yeah.
They
Julia: advertise on TV a lot or they use do this. Yeah. When I was doing freelance and I was home all day and I'd have TV on, in the background as just like stuff moving. So I didn't feel alone in the house.
Julia: They were a commercial that would run pretty much all during daytime television. Well,
Amy: they, yeah, because that's the other thing is like in a lot of sports, it's kind of like colleges, you know, like for sports purposes, they can be really good because they can like give scholarships to athletes.
Julia: That makes sense.
Julia: It's central. So central Catholic is a Catholic school here. It's the, uh, that's not true. They might be the only high school Catholic high school in town. Um, and they do, they kind of shot, they don't, well, I shouldn't say it like this, but they do. They go and recruit players to have on their team. And some of those people who've played on those teams played for central Cal Catholic have gone on to, you know, get really good college educations because of.
Julia: Um, sports scholarships. I don't know if anybody's gone pro though.
Amy: And I've seen people, I went to high school with play in the NFL. Really? Yeah. Wow. That's impressive. Yeah. They're not like stars, but
Julia: they still the fact that yeah. Yeah. The fact that you make it, it's kind of a big deal. Yeah. I think that's wild.
Amy: Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, and then there's people like Greta Gerwig, right? Like she went to one of these schools and she's Greta Gerwig and she made this movie,
Julia: I mean, amazing movies. Like we covered little women and during Christmas, and I was just so angry that, and she made, she did that. Oh my
Amy: gosh. Yes. I love that
Julia: movie.
Julia: She made the little women I wanted to make, had I gotten out of the central valley, which clearly, and we all can see that I did not
Amy: Gretta hire Julia. And her out.
Julia: Sometimes I feel like we have the same brain because when watching my mom, so I'm watching lady bird for the first time. And in 2017, I was 34.
Julia: That sounds right. And I was like in a really hard place because a lot of people I had gone to art school with, and a lot of people I'd gone to high school with. And we were all in these artsy-fartsy programs together. We're actually starting to make waves in, in their chosen industry and a little bit more famous.
Julia: Like there, you know, nobody knows who they aren't necessarily, but I see that they're winning Emmys. I see that they're working on these things and I'm just like, fuck my life. Like I would I, not that I say, not that I. When all the awards, but to be in a creative industry to be like on such a large scale of storytelling, and to know that we went to school together.
Julia: So it was like, you got to cultivate your craft and I am still writing. Like I'm 12, that's not true. Um, but you know, that's what it feels like. So I'm sobbing through the whole entire movie because I felt like. Oh, my God. I felt like that because my sophomore year I was done with high school. I said to my parents, please let me take the GED and I'll go to the junior college and then I'll transfer to a four year.
Julia: And they said, no. And then after that, I was like, fuck this shit I'm out. And I just really did not. My senior year, I dropped out of all advanced classes into general ed. Actually, it was so fucking easy. I was like, people were struggling in my English class and I'm like, how are you straight? Like, I didn't even read the work.
Julia: And I still got an a on the essay. Like this is not hard. And so it just kind of. Lady bird was kind of like the, this was what, this is the alternative universe that you could have had. Had your parents been more supportive about you being bored at school? Um, no. I mean,
Amy: I know you're listening. I mean, I was like a little similar to you in that, like I was art.
Amy: What did you call it? Like art artistically inclined artsy-fartsy um, cause yeah, I was like in AP APR and stuff like that. And actually, and so it's, it's also funny because lady bird only gets into theater. In her senior year. So I also, my senior year started painting sets
Julia: for the
Amy: plays. That's awesome.
Amy: And so I like started to have these new, like theater friends, because I was like a floater in high school. I would like float around to different groups. I was friends with a lot of different groups because I went to middle school at like a big middle school, but yeah. Yeah. So just like Ladybird, I started doing, I started like getting into the drama department only in my senior year.
Amy: And like you, I, by my senior year, I was like, I'm going to our college. So I don't care about AP English, even though I did take AP English and I became legendary because I threw the test and they give the essay to. The teachers to read. And my teacher had a hundred percent pass rate for years and me and one other person failed.
Amy: And my essay, literally I wrote for two hours, it was like, I don't care about this test. I just really don't feel like it I'm really preoccupied with my APR portfolio. So instead, I'm going to give you a synopsis of what happened on gossip girl this week. And I wrote for two hours about what happened on gossip girl.
Amy: Okay. This teacher, God forbid, she or anyone that knows her listens to this podcast, but she went on to like tell at the, on the first day of AP English for like years now, she's tells everyone if you are not in this class to take it seriously. Leave the class, because I had a student who did it and everyone, like my friend's younger siblings were like, Amy, was that you I'm like, yep.
Amy: That was me. Oh
Julia: gosh. Uh, I fucking love that story. And I'm like, there's a reason why we connected there. There's another reason why we've connected. There's that spirit. I love that spirit. I mean, I shouldn't maybe encourage people to. Spirit cause like rules and structure in order for a reason. But I feel like at the same time, like when a teenager is telling you I'm fucking bored, this sucks.
Julia: Like you need to hear them because in my case, that's when you start that's when I start to self-destruct and start doing things that are like really bad for me.
Amy: Well, that's another reason why. Sort of was seeing myself as a Julie the second time around, because there's the scene at the end about where she's like not going to prom and she's like, what's wrong.
Amy: She's like, I don't know. I'm just sad. I just get like that. And so I was kind of. Like, oh, there's that like depression that I thought was teen angst as a teenager, but now I've realized no, Amy, you actually, you know, have mental health challenges. Um, and it's so interesting. Cause at the time when I first watched it, I guess I didn't realize like I was really related, relating to Julie, but this time I was like, oh, Yep.
Amy: That was me. And
Julia: what's great about Julie's character. She's so happy and so friendly and so chipper. And so just matter of fact, through the whole thing, you just can't help, but love her, you know, and lady bird auditions for the play. And she puts lady bird and quotes, and then Julie puts her Julian quotes and she's like, he's not a nickname.
Julia: She's like, well, yeah, it is because my name's, whatever her, you know, Julianne or something like that. And, you know, she just loves lady bird so much. Um, no, And then that transition that she makes for that lady bird makes from hanging out with Julie all the time to like the cool kids.
Amy: Oh, I hated it. I hated that.
Amy: I was just so angry at her
Julia: and that girl, the girl that she was friends with was just like the new one was just, yeah, that's it. Jenna, thank you.
Amy: The actress is actually Israeli. Really? Yeah. Her name is . I.
Julia: Oh, thank you. I was looking at her I'm DB and I was like, I have no idea how to pronounce this. I need to type it into Google and give me the pronunciation.
Julia: Thank you for that. Yeah, she's beautiful. I thought she did a great job of being that character. Um, and lady bird is lying through her teeth about like who she is on her lives. Can you tell us a little bit about the fab forties? Okay. Yes. Such a fabulous neighborhood.
Amy: Yeah, so definitely. So I was not. I can relate to lady bird a bit on the like, oh, I don't live in these rich neighborhoods and whatever.
Amy: I was not like, I will admit that I was not as, uh, financially challenged. We'll say as lady bird's family. Thank God. But, um, but yeah, a lot of my friends, I grew up like hanging out at people's houses in the fab boardies and I'd be like, yeah, mom and dad, I'm going to the leather's his house. And like, their dad just got a Maserati.
Amy: And I touched it. Like, I was like, we can't drive it, but can I touch it? And my friends, like, I guess like,
Amy: like 14 year old me is like, oh my God. Um, yeah. And like, I grew up with these kids that lived in these neighborhoods. So the fab forties are. In east Sacramento and it's basically, you know, the 40th to 50th, but really, it kind of starts more at like 38 to like 45. But anyways, it's like the big, the big houses, like huge houses in those ones that they show in it, it was funny because this time I was paying attention to like, see if I saw any of my friend's houses, but they didn't film on their streets, I guess.
Amy: So, um, But yeah, they they're just like these rich people and it's, so there's one line where Jenna's character there in the pool. And she says, oh, the FA like lady bird lies and says she lives in the fab forties. And she says she lives in the big blue house. That's actually Danny's grandmothers
Julia: and the.
Amy: Jenna's characters like that's so great. The fab forties is where our starter house was like, now we live in granite bay, which is whole
Julia: areas. If you know,
Amy: The, like the context of this. And I was just cracking up like, oh
Julia: my goodness. That was such a great scene because Jay, because in addition to that, which I love those little nuggets throughout the movie.
Julia: Cause there's, there's a lot of that for people who are like local to the area. Um, but there's also that moment too, where lady bird. Talking about how she, like, can't wait to get out. Jen is like, I don't know. I'm happy here. I can have a couple of kids and you know, it's fine. And leave just like. Yeah.
Julia: She's like, you know, with her face. Yeah. And I kind of loved that because I feel like a lot of times when you live in a city like Sacramento or in Modesto is a big small town, um, you kind of, you know, get comfortable with what you know, and you don't necessarily think that you can do a little bit better, a little different, or what have you.
Julia: And that scene was so. Great to me one, because of the comment about the starter house thing, but then two, because of the moment when, when lady bird's like, not everybody wants to get the fuck home.
Amy: Yeah. Well, and it's also really like that. Like so many people I went to high school with are like legacy families, um, generations, you know, three, four generations of families that go to these Catholic high schools.
Amy: Um, a lot of high school sweethearts, a much higher percentage of. People who are still friends with the. They were friends with in high school. I thought also, again, God forbid anyone from my high school listens to this. Um, I'm not really friends with anyone. I went to high school with that much anymore, and I, when it first started happening, I felt bad.
Amy: I thought there was something wrong with me because I, the model I was shown was that like, everyone stays friends with their high school friends, and then I started to meet other people. You know, in general that are not from this environment. And they're like, no, Amy, I'm not friends with anyone. I went to high school with.
Amy: Cause I'm not the same person I was in high
Julia: school. Yeah. I seriously, truly it's like that here. Sort of, um, I've actually removed myself from that. Situation. But my son's dad's side of the family, they have been here for a couple generations. Everybody knows who the FA you know, who they are. They know, they know the kids, all the kids know each other, and now there's grandkids and all the grandkids know each other.
Julia: And I'm over here, like, I can't
Amy: do that. Yeah. I think I have basically one really close friend from growing up and that's cause we went to school together since we were like 12, but other than that, I was, I felt so much guilt when I started to part ways with my high school friends. Um, that's because everyone around me was still friends with their high school friends and I was like, Is something wrong with me, but like no, most people actually don't necessarily stay friends with her high school friends, friends like that.
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Julia: Throughout the movie. It is very clear. Lady, bird MacPherson wants out of Sacramento and the sooner the better, but her mother isn't so sure about her daughter's future overwhelmed and burdened by the family's financial situation. Marianne wants to support her daughter, but is practical in doing so, which sadly for lady bird or lady bird translates it as feeling.
Julia: Only unsupported, but also misunderstood. I thought that in my core, if I'm going to be honest, like that was really that dynamic got really hard for me sometimes. So much of my high school experience was just buying time until I could get out in a way and be free, find my people on the social spectrum, but not a lot of people feel that insane pull to escape.
Julia: So I want to talk and explore about that a little bit because. Uh, like you mentioned earlier, you know, a lot of people are generational and Sacramento. So having grown up there and being a creative person yourself, did you feel that pull to escape and was it as strong as ladybirds?
Amy: I don't know if mine was as strong as ladybirds, but I certainly was like, well, I went to college in California at first.
Amy: And then I, sorry, I'm going to drop this bomb on you. I graduated from high school in 2009, which was, um, Right when there was like the housing crisis and the economy just tanked. So I couldn't train. So basically I went to private art college in California, my first semester, and then I dropped out I'm an art school dropout and, um, And then I wanted to transfer it to a California school, but I couldn't because they wouldn't let you transfer until you were a junior.
Amy: Oh. Um, so I ended up going out of state and I went to Portland, Oregon, which is a whole other thing I did not. Um, yes, I went to PSU and, um, but no, I think I was a little, a little bit more Julie about it because, you know, Julie's like, I'm just going to go to SAC city and I was kind of like, If I can take advantage of the California school system, like I will, but I was very much like, I don't want to go to Berkeley and I don't want to go to Davis and I wasn't going to go to yeah.
Amy: And I was like, I'm not going to Chico. You know? So, um, I did apply to some state schools, but I think. It's really interesting because I had a friend who was like, she even looked like lady bird. She didn't go to my Catholic school, but she, she actually, they don't say what neighborhood lady. Lived in, but I'm pretty sure based on the bridge that they show.
Amy: And she says the truth
Julia: is,
Amy: yeah, I'm pretty sure she lives in the same neighborhood that my friend did. And this girl, I don't want to name her, but this girl, like if you it's like Voldemort, um, this girl was like, I want to get the F outta here. I'm going to go. And she did go to New York. Also. She went to the new school.
Amy: God only knows how she got in there. Um, I'm so mean. Um, she, she really like fucked me over in high school socially. So I have, like,
Julia: I know I have a couple of those where I'm just like, how did you manage to make your life work out better than I managed to make my life?
Amy: Yeah. It's like, and also, I don't even know if she made her life workout better than me.
Amy: She just like did end up going to New York and stuff. I realized that she's deeply unhappy. We don't need to talk about this, but I realized that she's like deeply unhappy because she's a bad person, but, um, but yeah, she was like very much like Ladybird. So I definitely like watched that. Um, like watching lady bird was like watching her.
Amy: Yeah. Um, where she's like mom and dad like make it happen. Like I am getting out of here and I'm going to New York, I'm going to the new school. And it was just like, she was just like, I don't care what you do. Like take out a second mortgage, sell your kidney. I'm going, like, make it happen.
Julia: I think a lot of money for it.
Julia: The kidney on the black market probably
Amy: don't do that. We're not condoning
Julia: it. It's not safe. It's not safe, like follow the rules in that regard. Like everybody please. Um, it's interesting because you know, Ladybird makes that comment about, oh, I'm from the other side of the tracks. And then when she starts dating Danny and he comes to pick her up and he's like, Oh, yeah, you made the, she said she lived on the other side of the tracks, but it's funny because I actually did cross train tracks to get here, but he's just making an innocent observation because he's a kid and like
Amy: so funny.
Amy: Cause he never crossed the train tracks before he didn't even know where she was talking about. Cause he didn't go there. Yeah.
Julia: And then, and then when he says this in front of her mother, she's like, oh yeah, you can see it's like Laurie met calves. I said the fuck. Yeah. You know, but she's still going to be polite and respectful in front of this kid.
Julia: And so she just, she's so deeply offended and heartbroken. And this time around Laurie Metcalf struggle of like, I got the sense that she was disappointed in the way that her life panned out, because she makes that comment about, like, we didn't think that we were going to live in this house for 25 years.
Julia: Like we make all these sacrifices. So you can have all of these things, yada, yada. And, um, it's just those little tiny things that parents feel like are their digs, but they're not necessarily just kids don't know any better. You don't know any different at 16, you get taken to Thanksgiving and the fab forties with your boyfriend, you think that's better, you know, it's like, you don't know.
Julia: All the nuances and the difficulties of life at that point, or at least anyway.
Amy: Yeah. And it's, I mean, you know, the summary that you gave centered on. On the mom. I don't remember her name, but we'll go with Laurie Metcalf.
Julia: Cause she's the actress.
Amy: And she played, she plays the mom so well, even though like, I hate her, like not Laurie Metcalf.
Amy: I hate the mom because like, you know, when I'm watching it, I'm like I'm Ladybird. And so she plays the moms so well in this way, but she's like, mean she is real and I understand she's going through it because now the adult means. Watching the Ladybird meat, like having that weird interaction with the mom while I'm watching is just like, Okay, mom, I get it.
Amy: You're like financially burdened. Your daughter is like a beachy teenager at sometimes, you know, your son and his girlfriend like live on your couch. Your husband's losing his job, all these things while nobody watched this, if you don't want to spoiler alert, I just told you everything.
Julia: But, um, not everything.
Julia: There's still somethings, I mean, like we said, that Timothy shall amaze in this movie. Yeah. Tap to get to, we're going to get to Tim Alamay. So,
Amy: but yeah, so like Laurie Metcalf character, like when she says, when, when a lady birds like throwing her little fit and she said, I'm going to write down a number I'm going to make so much money, then I'm going to pay it back and I'll never talk to you again.
Amy: And her mom's like, you'll never get a job. Good enough to make that much money. I was like, whoa, that's some shade right there. Yes. Well, from the.
Julia: It just, it just progressed, right? Like that was the, that was like the crux of it. But throughout the whole film, she said, she's throwing shade at her. Like, you know, oh, you think you can get into that college?
Julia: No, you can get into a state school, maybe kind of stuff. And that's not. That's not what you want to hear when you're like an adolescent, like your peer, your parents has to be in your corner, on your team, regardless of what your status is. Yeah. Cool. Like they're supposed to be your cheerleaders, but she's so practical and so pragmatic that it feels oppressed.
Amy: I know, but I think that maybe it's her projecting. She knows that she's not able to give that to lady bird. So instead of it being her fault, she's trying to make it like, well, lady, bird, you're just not going to get into that school. So we don't even need to talk about the fact that I can't pay
Julia: for it.
Julia: Right. Right. Oh my gosh. And then when it's like, oh, you don't even know what it's like to have a terrible mother. I was raised by an ALK, an abusive alcoholic, slammed the door. Just like
Amy: it's like, mom, you need a therapist, please.
Julia: And she works in a psychiatric ward. I know,
Amy: I know. Oh yeah.
Julia: Oh man. Oh man.
Julia: Though, this movie does make me want to reread the grapes of wrath because the opening side, I love
Amy: that book. I love Steinbeck. Yes. There's so many reasons why. On the same page. Yeah. I love Steinbeck and I loved reading and I, and it's funny because the second time I was watching it, I didn't remember that they, that the opening scene was the grapes of wrath.
Amy: But as soon as I heard the words, I was like, I think they're listening to the grapes of wrath. And I was like, yes, like on jeopardy when you
Julia: get the answer. Right. I totally forgot to. And I pulled a review and I was. Why don't I remember this, I feel like I would have remembered, I remember the Joan Didion quote, right?
Julia: Cause everyone in every review talked about the Joan Didion quote, unquote. Um, may she rest in peace? I literally burst out in tears when I heard that she passed. Um, and so I remembered that, but then I read a review that was like, oh, and I opened with them crying at the grapes of wrath. And I was like, how did I not, how do I not remember that?
Julia: So this time around, I was like, Getting more with them. It's like, oh, I need to reread
Amy: it. So I wonder if I even have that book on my, I must, I must, um,
Julia: we didn't even touch on Timothy Shalimar.
Yeah.
Amy: Okay. We have to talk about Timothy shall may, because this is one of the other, so I saw originally I saw the movie in the movie theaters when it came out with my grandma.
Amy: Oh, I love that. Oh, doesn't live. Yeah. And she doesn't live in Sacramento, but we got out of the movie and my grandma's like, did you like it? And I said, I just watched my life on the moon, on the video screen, on the video screen, on the movie screen, the theater, whatever. I can't speak. I just watched my life before my eyes.
Amy: And she's like, what? And I was like, even I was like, I'm sorry, grandma. I'm just going to be Frank with you. But like even the boy, she lost her virginity to you. That's the boy I lost my virginity to like, literally I'm telling you Julia, the conversation about rolled cigarettes. Oh my God. I had that conversation like this boy, Luke, Luke, who is now a woman, by the way.
Amy: Good for Luke. Yeah. Good for Luke, which I also was like, oh, and then there's Danny, who's actually gay and like
Julia: broke my heart. I know I had friends in high school who couldn't come out and it just wasn't hot and it wasn't okay. And people weren't going to get it. And so, you know, Five years later, they come home and they're like, Hey, I'm gay.
Julia: I'm like, no, I knew. I'm glad that you now know and can feel safe to say it. And when I talked to my kids' generation about that kind of stuff, they're like, what? Like, no seriously, like the gay kids weren't allowed to be gay and banking that we implemented. It was like the structure of society. So sad.
Julia: There's a reason why we're fucked up.
Amy: We'll in Catholic school. On top of that is just like really hard. I, so prop eight, um, was happening when I was graduating from high school. That's right. So some people could vote. And so the senior class always has a big mass at the. At the big, so I just say the synagogue, oh dear.
Amy: At the big cathedral in Sacramento and the like Bishop or diocese or whatever of Sacramento will give the sermon. And he literally just gave us all a whole talk about how a lot of you are going to be starting to be able to vote. And you need to think about as good Catholic people, like what you're going to vote.
Amy: And people were so mad. They were like, um, weren't you supposed to encourage us about the future? And instead you just gave us a political opinion, like, fuck you. Um, yeah, but Timothy Shalon may let's get back to the
Julia: juice. So, so cute.
Amy: Whoa. This, this character was it's so funny. Cause this is where I related to lady bird that was like, The caricature of all the boys.
Amy: I had a crush on until after probably college. Um, like skinny lady, always reading musician, pretentious reading, like catcher in the rye or, or like Alberta through or something really pretentious and like, yeah, I smoked rolled cigarettes and gave me the whole spiel about why smoking rolled cigarettes is better for you.
Amy: I was just like, maybe don't smoke at all. I don't know. That's probably
Julia: actually the best for you. I
Amy: was just like, okay. Yeah, everyone told me don't make out with smokers, but too late,
Julia: sometimes they're just sexy. It's hard. I'm sorry.
Amy: Well, it's funny. Cause I lived in
Julia: former smoker.
Amy: I mean, it's funny because I, well, so yeah, like this first boy.
Amy: Boys. Didn't like me in high school that I knew of Luke was the first person to like express liking me more than just a friend. So it was like, okay. But, um, yeah, so him and then like, you know, I mean, when I lived in Israel, everyone smoked. So at some point I was kind of like, do I like kissing smokers? Is that, is that what's happening?
Amy: Is that w like I was like a complex, I don't know. Um, But Timothy shallow mate. So he's kind of mysterious in this movie because he has the whole thing with his dad and we get a
Julia: small glimpse of that later in the movie, but he does, you know, kind of compare everything to what his family suffering is in a way.
Julia: Yeah. But
Amy: where's his mom. I don't know if we ever saw her. You didn't see her, but let, and he doesn't talk about her either, but I'm just thinking, like, if your dad is. You know, drooling in a chair with oxygen where you must have a mom somewhere doing something. Right. I don't know. It was just such an odd, he's like such a mysterious character.
Amy: And I just want to know more about
Julia: him. Yeah. That scene when they're at the party and he's sitting out by the pool, smoking reading,
Amy: he always has his book.
Julia: For me fucking nuts that he would spend it fat like
Amy: that. Yes. And as soon as they stop having sex, he picks up the book. You can't not have the book.
Amy: Yeah.
Julia: He's the guy when we're all, when you're all 30, that he hasn't changed, he's still doing that. But it's weirder now because like, um, I dunno, it just is. It's
Amy: just Peter Perry. He's like a Peter pan syndrome. Yeah. Peter pan.
Julia: Yeah. And it's cute and adorable and, and kind of sexy and high school and maybe even in college a little bit, but then, you know, at 30, 35 40, you're just like, okay, what are we doing?
Amy: It's like, you're not cooler than everyone now because you're the same person that you. 10 20 years ago. So wash your hair and get it
Julia: and,
Amy: and, and stop smoking rolled cigarettes. I am,
Julia: but I did. Okay. So I did love lady bird's reaction after they finished having sex. And she was like, oh, we lost our virginity.
Julia: And he, 100% said that. He said that I
Amy: was so upset. I was like, that's kind of what.
Julia: That's fucked up. Yeah. That's a good, what makes it more fucked up is that he was like, oh, I've had like sex with six or seven people. And she's like, we're
Amy: high school. Like, you don't know where in high school, like you don't know your body count.
Amy: Yeah. Well, and it's funny because she's like rightfully upset and then she tells him like, yeah, I'm upset because I just had a whole experience that like, Real.
Julia: Yeah. I never said that to you. I never said that. And it's like, no, no
Amy: boy, you did. It's literally on film. It's like,
Amy: oh man.
Julia: Oh, it was like that. It was like things guys say in the heat of passion to make you feel better, but they're not true. I don't even know where or why or how that began, but that shit needs to stop
Amy: also, to be honest, it's kind of like, I don't know. I don't know why we would feel that it's more comfortable, I guess when you're a Virgin to know that the other person is a Virgin.
Amy: I don't know for me personally, it just wasn't. I don't think that was something that would have made me feel better or worse about it, but isn't it, it's such a weird thing to think that, like, why does that make you feel. More willing to do it with them.
Julia: I don't know. I dunno either. I don't know. Um, I wasn't a person who had sex in high school.
Julia: I thought it was stupid. Oh, well, I
Amy: didn't have sex with Luke until I was out of high school, but he was still in high school. So I guess I shouldn't incriminate my.
Julia: Do you want me to cut that out? I
Amy: will. I mean, what's the statute of limitations on
Julia: that. Okay. I have no idea, but like my thought process was we have the rest of our lives. Of course, you know, I'm high school. I don't know. I don't know what dating is going to be like. I'm delusional because of pop culture and romcoms.
Julia: Right. Um, so, you know, I'm thinking I have the rest of my life to deal with this, that, and I'm terrified of diseases and like our health class that's. All our health class was, was like, here's the disease you will get from sex. So I'm just like, I don't understand why anybody would want to do that. If my chances of getting this are like 40%, you know, kind of stuff.
Julia: So I just definitely,
Amy: I was scared, but because I had dropped out of high school, I mean, not high school. Whoa. I dropped out of art school and then I came back to Sacramento for one semester. That's when I was bored out of my mind. Cause I came back to Sacramento and I also felt like a failure because all my friends were out having the time of their life.
Amy: And I was like, I'm depressed and I hate college. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I guess this is what's happening. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I,
Julia: I feel that that's, uh, that's the point in life where I found out I was pregnant. See, this is self destruction is bad, not listen listeners at home. You know, I love my son. I've talked about how he's my favorite.
Julia: I'm just saying, listen to your children. When they say that they're bored and restless. So I went to see lady bird with my mom at the state theater, which is a local cinema house that has been in Modesto since 1934. It's kind of a big deal. Like the tower of Modesto. Yeah. They re they renovated it a couple years ago.
Julia: Um, I think, I think right before the economic downturn
Amy: and then they're like, shit, no one going to the
Julia: movies. And it's got an art deco vibe, which is so fine. Like they really true to that era with. And it's definitely a welcome time work. And in 2017, I was in a, I, like I mentioned, I was in a very strange place emotionally.
Julia: So I had been unemployed for over a year. And many of the people I went to summer arts programs and thought had thriving careers. Like I said, you know, they were winning Emmys. They were getting, you know, on these big named shows and I was. The fuck am I doing with my life right now? I'm unemployed. And in grad school, I was jealous.
Julia: I'm just going to throw it out. There was one, a hundred percent job, everybody, and I'm not as jealous anymore. Let's I I'm going to say that. Like my jealousy hasn't fully subsided when I watch, you know, Read the articles for like the creative arts Emmys. And I read names that I know, and I'm just like good for you also.
Julia: Fuck you. You're like, hello. Also. I'm proud of you,
Amy: but also yeah, I get it. I get it.
Julia: Yeah. Like most teens, my parents and I didn't speak the same language. And by the time we finally agreed on what was. An appropriate next step for my life. It was too late. I had managed to find a way to self self-destruct taking my future with me lady bird.
Julia: Isn't just a coming of age story. I really truly is a love
Amy: letter. Yeah, I agree. I really agree. Yeah,
Julia: Amy, I just thank you so much for coming back. I'm so excited that you're here.
Amy: When you asked her someone to talk about lady bird, I was like, oh, I must talk about it because it was my life and your life and our life.
Amy: And that's just, this has been really fun.
Julia: Yes. And, um, friends. If you haven't listened to the other episodes, Amy has been, um, has joined us for, she was here in season two for our Asian American representation episode. Great conversation. Every time I listened to it, I just think taking Amy, we have such great conversations and then also freaks and geeks.
Julia: So go back and listen to this as well. Cause that show, oh my God. Anyway, can you please remind everybody where they can find you if they want to keep up with you on. Sure.
Amy: So the best places to find me are on Instagram or Twitter. And that would be at the Amy Albertson. That's a M Y a L B E R T S O N. And that's the best way
Julia: to find me and friends.
Julia: We'll link to her socials in the show notes to make it a little bit easier for you to find her and. That's it. I'm just so glad you were here. I feel like we could have a whole, like,
Amy: we could just have our own show. I mean, yeah. We could probably just go on like a tangent of like, we started with Ladybird.
Amy: Right. But then it leads into like, talking about this, talking about that person they're in this movie. Oh, did you see that? Like, wow.
Julia: We could really, we really could. Anyway, thanks for tuning in y'all until next.
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