Freaks & Geeks | 1
Show Notes:
Season 3 is FINALLY here and we are kicking it off with Freaks and Geeks!!
Freaks and Geeks first aired in the fall of 1999 and was canceled due to ratings. It was a big bold move of NBC to go up against teen show-friendly networks that had been dominating that space. Years after its cancellation, Freaks and Geeks found its way onto cable television in reruns and slowly became the cult classic we all love today.
Let's get Social:
The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
The Guest: Amy Albertson
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous where we discuss pop culture through the lens of race or gender. And sometimes both. I'm your host, Julia Washington and today's show Amy Albertson is back and we are discussing the cult classic freaks and geeks.
Julia: This episode is brought to you by Hues by Juls he used by Juul offers, custom artwork and original prints specializing in watercolor, focusing on the human form and different shades of skin. If you're looking for that perfect gift for a birthday or have a special memory you'd like to commemorate visit Hughes by jewels on Instagram, or find the Etsy shop of the same name that
Julia: Hughes H U E S by Juls, J U L S.
Julia: Freaks and geeks made it's network television debut on September 25th, 1999. It stars Linda Carter, Delaney, John Francis, Daley, Jason Siegel, and Martin star. Just to name a few. This brilliant show was created by Paul Feig with Judd Apatow as an executive producer. But before we dive in, let me tell you about our guest.
Julia: Amy Albertson is a Jewish advocate and educator from California. She's an active online voice for mixed Jews, particularly highlighting her experience as an Asian American Jewish woman. Welcome back my friend.
Amy: What's up so happy to be on the pod again, because let's be real. We have plenty. Of media to discuss that we love
Julia: Heck yes. And sometimes it's fun to talk about things that are about our own cultures, you know, pick it apart a little bit about like, this is how people live. What?
Amy: Yeah. We watch regular TV too.
Julia: Yes, exactly. Okay. Fans, we're going to hit you with a summary of the show. If you haven't seen it, I honestly have no idea what you're doing with your lives.
Julia: After the death of her grandmother, Lindsay we're starts hanging out with a new group of friends, attempting to transition from academic elite to the group of burned out freaks while her younger brother, Sam and his group of geeks, try to survive high school as freshmen set in the Detroit suburbs of the 1980s freaks and geeks is a delightful and relatable tale of misfits on both sides of the high school, social spectrum.
Julia: When this show first released, the Hollywood reporter had this to say, it turns out that the best of the seasons new crop of youth oriented dramas is found not on the WB or Fox, but NBC they're a series with the uninviting name, freaks and geeks offers the most sensitive touching and yes, humorous look at the joys and pains of adolescents since though wonder year.
Julia: The show only lasted one season and really only 18 episodes of that. I remember queuing up the big screen TV to watch. And in those days, the big screen TV is literally a box with a screen in it and everyone to understand it's not big screens of today. I even recorded the last three episodes on VHS. I was so disappointed that it was canceled.
Julia: A fact that I discovered while reading TV guide on a frozen yogurt run with my sibling, I begged my mom to let me leave the TV on so that ratings would reflect our set. So Amy let's start in the most easiest place we possibly can. When did you first discover freaks and geeks and tell me why you love it so
Julia: much.
Julia: All right. So I have to admit that I did not watch it when it was on television. I was. Young to be having TV preferences or probably to even understand that subject matter. But I discovered freaks and geeks at a very poignant time in my life, which was when I first went to college. My first roommate in college, um, a wonderful young lady named Andrea, who, I don't know where she is in the world now, but she was a painter and she loved all the best movies and TV shows.
Julia: And she had all the DVDs and because this was still pre streaming and she had freaks and geeks the whole season. And I was like, what's this? Cause she told me, you can watch anything you want of my stuff. And I'm like, what's this? She's like, oh wow. That's such a good TV show. You should watch it.
Julia: Obviously I started watching it and this was when I was like getting, I was like very depressed. I hated college. At that point. I basically sat in my room all the time. Binge watched it. And then I was like, where's the second season? She's like, oh honey. No. And then I watched it probably 10 times
Julia: after that.
Julia: I don't blame you. It's so good. It's so good. And you know what, like, I kind of love that you discovered it in college because you, you know, at that point then you have a little bit more of a better handle on some of the jokes and you've experienced high school. So you have like that relate-ability to it too.
Julia: I, um, I was a freshmen like Sam and bill and oh, perfect Neil. So it was definitely like, okay. And we're all roughly the same age. Like Sam, I actually a lot of the cast, um, like Sam, Neil, the guys who play Samuel and bill are all like, like 1982 to 1985 birth years. And then like, everyone else has. 1978 to like 1980 and like the older group.
Julia: Um, so they were all roughly like appropriately aged peer wise as well. And, um, it crazy that they'd
Amy: play characters that are where they age appropriate for the characters they were playing.
Julia: I think so. Yeah. I mean, with the exception of like James Franco and Linda Carine, but yeah, I think everyone else was for the most part.
Julia: That's rare. I know, I know because James Franco is the same age as my brother. He was born in 77 and then Linda Carboline, I want to say was born in like 76 or something like that. So they're a little bit older than everybody else, but not by much because I mean,
Amy: I dunno. Well, that's so good because you always see these like 30 year olds playing 16 year olds, and then you're like, why don't I look like that?
Amy: Because you haven't grown up into an adult yet.
Julia: Yeah. 900 to one. I think it like Andrea from 1930s, she wasn't even pregnant on the show at one point and they had to like hide her pregnancy. Oh goodness. Yeah. So there's that? Um, And I just think it's the funny, it's so funny. Like even to this day, it's so funny.
Amy: I mean, I think, yeah, I don't know. I guess I actually can't even speak to the fact if they're having high schoolers play high schoolers anymore. They'll first thing that comes to my mind is euphoria, which is not high schoolers playing high schoolers, doing things that
Julia: high schoolers shouldn't be doing.
Julia: But that's another episode.
Julia: That's another podcast episode. W when I first watched euphoria, I mean, yes, it is another podcast episode, but I have to say this out loud. Cause I wasn't, I was sheltered, but I wasn't sheltered as a high schooler. So when I first watched euphoria, it was like,
Amy: I. Yeah, same. That was also my reaction.
Julia: And I'm the era of she's all that 10 things I hate about.
Julia: You can hardly wait, bring it on. So like to see you for ya and then compare it to what we were given in high school. And like step by step, you know, the kids were in high school. Like,
Amy: I mean, I come from the era of mean girls, which I think is very similar to freaks and geeks like segway, but yeah, I'm just like, oh, is this what the kids are?
Amy: Doing these days, watching these days wanting to do these days. Great. Cool. Yeah.
Julia: I was like I said, I thought I was pretty like,
Julia: anyway, not to digress, but here we go back into our topic. Sorry,
Amy: everyone. That's how we do.
Julia: Yes. The fact that a teen show was on NBC with kind of a big deal, right? Has this CW, it wasn't the CW at the time. It was still, the WWB was all about like Gilmore girls and um, one tree hill.
Amy: And like, those were all the shows that I watched.
Amy: They were, oh, see what, what channel was the OSI on? I
Julia: think it was also this well, I think they were the CW by the time the OSI came around really because the WTB became CW, but people don't remember that the WB before it was the day. He was UPN.
Amy: No, I remember because also, because also it wasn't like seventh heaven.
Amy: Yes. And that stuff on there. Cause I watched on the WB
Julia: Doby, you be the double you, but the frog.
Amy: Okay. Sometimes I'm old. Yikes.
Julia: I appreciate you so much right now, Nikes. It makes our F our age gap field. Non-existent. I mean, it's
Amy: not even that big, but you know, some, a few, a few formative
Julia: years makes a bigger difference. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Back to our original topic, sorry. In 2001, the New York times ran an article announcing this discovery, freaks and geeks.
Julia: Now airing on the Fox family channel Tuesday nights, writer, Terry Teachout pens, a review that reads more like a love letter to the show whose life was cut. Too short. Addition to admiration teach would offer this opinion, quote, the most believable thing. Utterly believable show is that virtually every episode is made to pivot on an experience intrinsic to teenage life embarrassment.
Julia: I'm inclined to agree. So spot on every episode has some sort of cringy teenage scenario that regardless of the era, in which the show is set, feels like it could happen today. So Amy, let's talk about it. Do you have a favorite episode? Yes. Okay. Tell me, tell me which one,
Amy: like I remember before, like coming on to, to the podcast, I was thinking about this question and I was like my instinct before I rewatched again, was.
Amy: And I think it's only like the second episode, but weirs. Yes. The party, the party episode is too good, too good. It's it's so good. And I was the, and because I was like prepared, I hadn't even rewatched the episode yet, but I
Julia: had the song
Amy: Jesus's all right with me, stuck in my head. And I was like, humming the song.
Amy: And my boyfriend's like, what are you singing? And I was like, I can't sing it out loud. I'm there. And he's like, what is this from? Why are you singing this? And I'm like, it's from frequently. You don't even know. Oh yeah. That for sure. For sure. My favorite episode is the
Julia: party episode. Um, oh, good for friends at home who haven't seen it yet.
Julia: I'm sorry. It's not ruining it to tell you the premise, but basically Lindsey's parents go out of town. They decided to have a party clam freaks out because she's hanging out with all these new friends, friends, and they're going to trash the house. So they get this idea to switch out the cake with the cake of alcoholic.
Julia: It's
Amy: just too funny. And then, and then, okay. And this is also because I think I partially love this episode because I'm a huge bill fan. The character bill is by far my favorite. And in this episode, he's like, I don't want to miss Dallas. So I'm going to watch it at your house. So he's like in Sam's room watching Dallas drink.
Amy: From the real keg accidentally getting wasted. It's a
Julia: good episode. Like you want to come out of the gate strong on a TV show, you do it with an episode like this one. It was so good. Yeah.
Amy: I mean everything, everything from, okay. So yeah, like everything from the drinking and driving skits at school that day or the day before, um, which were which, okay, so I just love how Cindy, can we talk about Cindy for a second?
Amy: Kind of how she's in that skit with all with Millie and that kid who, I don't know his name, but he's like the older guy who apparently is cool, but he's really not cool at all. Um, but Cindy is in. This girl is just, she just is doing too much for me. She's like, she's in the school skit, she's on the yearbook.
Amy: She's a cheerleader. She planned the whatever carnival thing. They had
Julia: Cindy, the whole thing
Amy: she's holding because she's like cool. But does uncool stuff at the same time, which is, which is like, why can't maybe I'm getting ahead of myself or getting too far in, but like Lindsey. So Lindsey's character.
Amy: She like was a math lead and did academic decathlon. But now she's a quote unquote freak, which by the way, I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm too young, but when I I'd never have heard this term to refer to like stoners called
Julia: stoners or burnouts, we call them
Amy: burnout, stoners, burnouts. I don't know like the bad kids, but I've never heard freaks.
Amy: So, um, but yeah, like why can't Lindsay beat. Uh, Cindy, like, why can't she be doing it? All
Julia: her parents cracked me up, man.
Amy: Wow. They are. So the mom in freaks and geeks, I don't think I ever saw her again in anything. I know she's in other things, but I saw her finally when I was watching girls, I believe she plays Lena Dunham's characters,
Julia: mother.
Julia: Yeah, she totally does. And she plays Miranda's sister on sex in the city.
Amy: Oh really? Okay. So I guess I just know that didn't ever click with me, but yeah, so she plays Lena Dunham's mother, which is a very different mother from the weird mother and. I think she has like a sex scene where like Lena Dunham character like walks in on her parents having guys.
Amy: And I was just so like, Ooh,
Amy: this is
Julia: even possible. Right. I was like, oh
Amy: no, that
Julia: would never happen. Never. My favorite episode is the episode where George Bush comes to town. Oh yes. I mean, beers and weirs is definitely by far the best episode of the season. Cause it's so funny. But then my second favorite is the one where push comes to town because you know, they're doing all this stuff and Lindsay gets tapped to write a question and then her question gets rejected and she's like, and the, um, Mr.
Julia: Raso, the guidance counselor is pissed and all this it's just so funny because like, you know, Her dad's like where, you know, plug the store. You're aware you have to plug the store, the store, like I don't want it. And then, um, that actually has episodes that kind of made me hate Cindy, because she was just so kind of like shitty to Sam.
Julia: Oh yeah. Cause that's when
Amy: Sam and Cindy finally spoiler alert, like do date.
Julia: Yeah. And she's like, you're supposed to be nice and dah, dah, and she's just doesn't listen to him. She doesn't like, he's such a sweet kid. Like, and she's just not nice. I love when lake the dinner scene, when she's like, as the, as the president of the young Republican's club, I get to introduce George Bush and Lindsey's like, that's okay in their dog.
Julia: Isn't that great Lindsay like, oh my God, Lindsay, isn't this so great for, um, Cindy? And she's like, yeah, if you're a Republican, I know everyone's a Democrat until they own land.
Amy: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. It just makes me like, it makes it, it reminds me of my, my dad a bit, like he would say that because he was a small business owner.
Amy: So he's like, it's all fun and games until you own your own business or something like that. Um, that is also a good episode. And I feel like, I just feel like so many of these episodes parallel plot with that seventies show, but this show came first. Did
Julia: that 70 show released in 19
Amy: 98 99? Maybe. I mean, maybe I just guess, like, not all of the episodes that parallel the plots came out that early, but there's an episode where it's not George Bush.
Amy: It's obviously
Julia: whoever
Amy: Jimmy Carter or something comes and, um, Donna's family, her dad has like the matching jumpsuits so that they make the American flag. Yes. Oh my God. That's
Julia: such a, I forgot
Amy: about that. And that's all I could think about when I was like watching this episode. I'm like the we're family.
Amy: Needs American flag, chumps that like say the name of the store on it or
Julia: something? A one sporting goods. Yes. I love it. And the other one I love was when Daniel tried to be a punk, he's like, I'm a
Amy: punker. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. And he like, doesn't he, he like DIY is his clothes
Julia: and safety pin nose piercing.
Julia: Oh gosh.
Amy: Yeah. I was just thinking like tetanus shot the whole time. He did
Julia: that. That, one's funny too. They're all great. There's not a bad episode in the Bunge at all.
Amy: One of my, like, I would have to say my least favorite episode to watch only because it's like, makes me so cringe and you're just feel uncomfortable the whole time is I don't know the name of it, but it's where Lindsay and.
Amy: Wow. I'm just blanking on his name. Jason. Jason. Yes. Nikta when Lindsey and Nick are like in their relationship and he's clingy. Oh yeah. And she wants to break up with him, but everyone tells her not to. And he just, I just feel bad because I feel so bad for him. I want to help him. But also I feel so bad for her that I'm like, yeah, I know girl, you want to break up with this guy?
Amy: Yeah. He was just so cringe. I, I just feel so uncomfortable watching it and not because they're like my friends. Right. I'm like, I want to talk to you about it, Lindsay, or like Nick, I just chill, chill out Nick, like, but there are TV characters and you can actually speak to them. No,
Julia: you can't. And he had a 20 piece drum set, which is a little excessive 29, 29.
Julia: You're right. That's it.
Amy: 29 piece drum set.
Julia: Yup. Whether your account needs a refresh or you're just starting out. Amy Albertson will jumpstart your personal brand and strategy with Instagram power hour, a jam packed power coaching session for anyone looking to enhance their brand or business's Instagram presence, you will walk away with tangible action, steps and workbooks to keep you on track with your goals.
Julia: For more information, visit www.amyalbertson.com/power hour Lindsey's entry give Daniel, which is in the earlier seat. Played by James Franco and her subsequent relationship with Nick played by Jason Segal is not just a confusing new social venture, but she's learning about what it means to be in a relationship Daniel's relationship with Kim played by busy Phillips is loud, abrasive, and completely unsteady.
Julia: Before joining the ranks of the freaks, Lindsey was close with Millie, a fellow mathlete who was a good, she is good for goodness sake. Millie is involved in school and she participates in all of the things that we talked about earlier. And she worries that Lindsay is making the worst decision of her life by hanging out with the freaks.
Julia: Unlike Millie, Kim has uncontrolled gets high smokes and is mediocre at school at best, but they both bring out qualities in Lindsay that are true. And Lindsay must find the balance. It's perfectly normal to be in high school. In question, everything you have ever known about life, the path you're on their friends, you spend time with.
Julia: And I feel like that's especially true after you experienced some sort of death or loss. So let's talk about Lindsey Ware's journey into the new freakish life and leaving her square world behind coming of age and self exploration are timeless themes. And in the world of Lindsey, we're in the 1980s, how has this relatable to kids like us that can never experience the eighties in this
Amy: way?
Amy: I mean, it's relatable too. I think anyone who ever went to high school, whether, you know, you're kind of finding yourself and I would argue that you don't even find yourself until you get to college. So whatever. And even after that, who am I wearing right now? Who knows?
Julia: Um, I'm pushing 40 and I still have those moments.
Amy: I mean, it's like call me in five years and see if I'm remotely the same. Um, but yeah, I mean, anyone in high school has these experiences where you hang out with certain kids, you drift from other kids and you have different interests. You know, like even like, you know, Daniel decides he's going to be punk one day and then it lasts for like a punker for like a week.
Amy: Um, I definitely relate to Lindsay, even though I didn't grow up in the eighties just on the fact that like, I was very. In middle school. I was like, so academically inclined, which is how I ended up going to the high school they did. And then in high school, I was like, this is hard. I don't really like school anymore.
Amy: And I started to do art more. And I mean, not that there were like art kids, there weren't really art kids, but then it was like, yeah, I do art. I don't like, I'm not as academically advanced anymore. And I don't care, but it was like a weird thing to be floating between my friends who were still very academically advanced and then kids who were doing art.
Amy: But then also my other friends who were, I guess they would be called like air quotes, bad kids, but they're like not bad at all. Um, especially considering euphoria, but, but yeah, I guess they're like doing drugs and smoking pot and whatever.
Julia: What I love about Lindsay is that even though she leaves the leaves, the mathletes.
Julia: She does eventually make her way back. Right? She's still the best out of it. Like every, like no one compares to her really. She's still the best mathlete of the bunch. And I just love that she can break away for a little while, go and explore and then come back and still be really strong. And you know, this in this area.
Julia: And then, um, the other thing that I really love about her is that she's always been, she was never shy to be like that sexist. That's not okay. Like, just because I'm a girl, I should do this.
Amy: That's love her sass in that way, but that's kind of like, I also like how spoiler alert again. I also like how she ends up not.
Amy: Because I feel like in the nineties, especially in, I don't know, growing up as like a millennial, this cookie cutter way of life is taught to us. Like you need to do well in high school to get into a good college, to get into a master's program, to get your master's and then do a career that you're going to work in for 30 plus years.
Amy: So you can have a good retirement. And then, yeah. And you're just like, I dunno, you sold your soul to corporate America. Um, but Lindsey. Doesn't sell her soul to corporate America as far as we know,
Julia: as far as we know. And, and again, we're just going to spoil this show for you. You just also need to watch it the very final episode, she gets tapped to be in this very prestigious program at university of Michigan, which is a really good school.
Julia: Yeah. So she's, you know, like she's like, I don't want to do that. What? No, I'm not that smart. I'm not smart enough for that. What but she is, but she's had to like downplay how smart she is kind of through the whole season, but then she makes this huge decision at the end. You know, she, her relationship with Kim Kelly started really Rocky and then they developed this huge, this really great bond by the end.
Julia: And she does this, I think it's like a super selfless act, what she did, where they, um, decide to go on the road trip to follow the grateful dead around rather than, um, she'd go to the academic thing. And I think it's selfless because. Kim is jealous of Lindsay and all the opportunity that she has that is not available to turn herself.
Julia: And so, you know, she says this line, Kim, you can travel to, like, you can do something over summer break too. And Kim's like, that costs money. I don't have the resources. Like I can't do that. And then she makes this trip happened for her. And while it's a big deal to go to this academic thing and be with this like intellectual elite at the same time, Lindsay proven she can step away and still come back the best.
Julia: So it's okay if she goes and has
Amy: a fun summer. Totally. And can, can we, for a second that just made me have a thought about, um, about how, you know, Kim's love. Kim Kelly's life and Lindsey Weir's life are so different and Lindsey's like clearly a star academically. And she comes from a pretty stable, you know, average, suburban family.
Amy: That's not that's, you know, doing pretty well. And then Kim, she comes from single parent household, you know, her mom
Julia: ream at each other,
Amy: pretty insane to say the least, um, like they lost our house. They live in a trailer, all these things. And the guidance counselor, Jeff, who's also a great character, but why is the guidance counselor spending so much time on Lindsay who does not need his guidance?
Julia: She's going to eventually do the right thing anyway, right? Like it's ingrained in her. It's part of her fiber. It's part of her whole upbringing and culture. She's rebelling ish, but it's not going to be, she's going to be lost the way that potentially Kim Kelly could one.
Amy: I think this is just like very reflective of real life where it's like, why wouldn't you spend the time to actually help kids like Kim Kelly and Daniel, like the episode with the cheating and Daniel, as much as it's like his bullshit speech that he rehearsed.
Amy: It's probably a true story. And also, yeah. Why does the, the math teacher tells Lindsey when she's like, I'll tutor him, it'll be fine. Like he'll do better in. Lindsey, you can't tutor him. Like he's worthless. I was so angry at that math teacher in that moment. It's just like, yeah, these kids are going to end up in jail or whatever you say, because you tell them that and you treat them like, there's no other option for them.
Amy: And then people like Lindsey, not that you shouldn't help her, but like, she doesn't need your guidance. Jeff. She keeps telling you. She's cool. Yeah. But you just want to give her all the attention because he's your pet project. I don't know.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point about Daniel too, because he kind of gets saved in the end a little bit by the geek group where he,
Amy: um, so I
Julia: love that scene when they're like, come play Dungeons and dragons and he's like, what?
Julia: No, like that's dumb. And then by the end of it, he. This is awesome. I'll see you guys tomorrow to play it.
Amy: I think that's like such a great moment. Yeah.
Julia: Do you have a favorite of the freak group?
Amy: I think Daniel is my favorite. Not just because he's James Franco, but I do think he's my favorite because he's very himself, but he also has his like deeper sort of brooding times where we get to see like character development.
Amy: And then he also, he's the one who's like the nicest to other people, like, yeah. Ken, Seth Rogan's character. You're a Dick. You're just straight up a Dick. And, um, Jason Siegel's character, Nick. I like him, but again, he, his whole clingy episode just stayed really, just like I had to write you off. Sorry, Trump that's like triggering.
Amy: Um, and I like him. I do like her. I think I like how we see different elements of her character, but at the end of the day, I love Daniel.
Julia: Same. That is when, um, 1999, when I developed my crush on James Franco. And, uh, it lasted far too long. Um, and probably sort of diminished around the time all the accusations about him became public.
Julia: And I was like, oh yeah. Cause I didn't really, I didn't really like get into his personal, like when I have a celebrity crush, I don't get into their personal life. I'm just like, I need you to stay my celebrity crush and that's, you're just going to be this
Amy: right. I'm like, you're the green goblin. You're so hot.
Julia: Yeah. And, and so yeah, for a long time it was not okay. I've seen every single movie he's done with Seth Rogan.
Amy: Well, I used to be a big Seth Rogen, James Franco. Like they were my boys. I was all about them. And for different reasons for each of them, I'm now like. Less than
Julia: you. Yeah. And it's so weird to think that Seth Rogan started out as Ken on freaks and geeks.
Julia: When you think about the catalog that Han and James Franco did and the kinds of characters he's played in those movies they've done together,
Amy: I guess, to be honest, I was like, yup. That's that's Seth Rogan. I don't know, like looking back, like, cause I watched it. Yeah. So a part of the reason I originally was like, so latched on was because I was in my, my era of like being a huge Seth Rogen and James Franco fan.
Amy: I kind of thought. Yeah, I guess like, in that time, when I was like much more at my, what is it called admiring of Seth Rogen that doesn't, that's not the right verb, but we'll take it. But when I was admiring Seth Rogan, more than now, I didn't think Ken was like a fair character. Right. I was like, oh, he's kind of an asshole that sucks.
Amy: But now looking back on it, I mean, now that I'm watching it now, I just said now 300 times
Amy: today watching it again. Um, I'm like, yeah, Seth Rogan, you're playing yourself.
Julia: You don't appreciate what he's doing for the Alzheimer's. No, he is. Yeah, he is. He is at the same time again, they're all human and they all make mistakes and they all have their own personality traits and.
Amy: Well, Seth Rogen fell out with the Jewish people when he made comments about that. He doesn't understand the concept of Israel. So that's when I know that. Yeah. So yeah, I don't want to get all into it and stuff, but basically that's when I, when he fell off his pretty tall pedestal for me, but, you know, still enjoy freaks and geeks.
Amy: Not gonna not watch. I'm not one of those people who, unless they did something like very egregious, I still I'm going to watch it. So yeah.
Julia: I, I mean, I feel you on that because it's hard, right? The complicated relationship when characters. When humans in real life do complicated things. Like there's a point where freaks and geeks was kind of a balm for me, where it was like, yeah, I feel awkward in high school and I don't really know how to fit.
Julia: And I have a really good friend group that I'm spending time with. And we also don't like, all of us don't really fit. So this is comforting. This is comfortable. This is nice. This brings me in now watching it. It's like this brings me nostalgia in a way that I really appreciate, especially as I'm looking at high school was 20 years ago.
Julia: He a hard life. It
Amy: hurts. Yeah. I feel like watching it at the time was probably like catharsis and then watching it now is like nostalgia. Yup. Look how far we've come. I know.
Julia: Great. I have a dog now. It's fine. I had a dog back then, too, but,
Amy: but it's your dog. It was fine. Yeah. It was a family dog. Now you have your own dog.
Julia: Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Sam bill and Neil are the geeks of the show and they spend their time playing Dungeons and dragons and being part of the AB club. They are the three Musketeers who love comedy shows, but Sam has a crush on Cindy Sanders. As we've mentioned earlier, she's a cheerleader who is sweet and kind until she's not, but also popular.
Julia: Her social rank is cool and Sam can't help, but pine after her Sam's journey out of geekdom, isn't as obvious as his sister's journey out of the, into. And his mercilessly mocked by his friends when he does attempt to be cool. But ultimately through the entire season, Sam stays true to his friendships. So let's talk about this geek group for a bit, the dynamics between Sam, bill and Neil and how they, I think they still, I guess
Amy: they are definitely like, yeah, I guess like, um, why am I calling her Linda?
Amy: Cause that's her real name? I guess Lindsey. Oh, Lindsey and Linda. I never even thought of it. Lindsay's is technically like the main character, but I'm sorry, Sam bill and Neil are it for me. There's no fucking body the best. The three of them, the chemistry that three of them have is so
Julia: good. And whoever cast that was genius way to get.
Julia: And I love when one, you mentioned bill wanting to watch Dallas in that second episode, um, during the party. And I love that that's a thing throughout the entire season. He's like, I can't Dallas is on that night or when his mom's dating. Um, bef
Amy: yes, my brother, my brother walked in and he's like looking, looking at the screen, like what I'm like.
Amy: Yes, yes it is. Yes
Julia: it is. And if it's watching some sport and here comes bill shuffle out, out service, like Dallas is on a
Amy: yes. And let's talk about a bill if you're going to ask me, cause I know you're going to heal is by far my favorite, not only of the geeks, but of the show. I love bill. His character is so good.
Amy: Um,
Julia: Yes. That episode when he's talking about his peanut allergy and then what's his face puts a peanut in a sandwich anyway, he's always lawyer about stuff. And like, everyone's like, he literally could have died. Yeah,
Amy: I love. Okay. And also for Halloween, when he dresses up as the bionic woman and he's like looking at himself in the mirror and then he's talking on the phone and he's like, pretending to talk to, I don't remember who he's pretending to talk to on the phone, but it's hilarious.
Amy: And then his mom gets on the phone and is like, bill, I need to use the phone. He's like, oh yeah. Okay mom, sorry, sorry. I'll get off the phone. Cause he's not even actually on the phone. He's just pretending. But yes, he also did such a good job of dressing up as a woman, which as a high school freshmen, I'm like really ballsy dude.
Amy: Like you really went all the way with it.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah, cause it's like, how are you there? The jocks are so mean to him. They do, what's called a clean-out for our listeners at home. And that's basically, they run up behind him and knocked their books out of their hands. Um, and other little things like that throughout the whole season.
Julia: And he's just him. He's like, this is who I am. I'm going to take it or leave it. And I just love that about him. Like he never doubts himself really there's stuff that what the peanut episode, he does kind of get a little sad because his friends don't want to do, was it the CII festival? And they're trying to figure out how to get with the cheerleaders and stuff.
Amy: 'cause he? Cause he's like, Hey, you guys, like, we like this. Why are you trying to be someone you're not? You know, and I love, um, I just blanked on what I was, what I was thinking about
Julia: when the girl, when he's in seven minutes in heaven,
Amy: No, but that's also great though, when he, okay. The episode where it's like, not even a major thing, but yeah, like you said, he's so sure of himself.
Amy: And he liked the episode where he prank calls the coach. And the first time he, Brent calls him, he tells. The guy, like, why aren't you giving the boys the other, like the geeks, a chance to play. You're always just letting the cool, popular dudes be in charge of the baseball game. He's like, he could be very good at baseball, but you don't know because you don't let him play.
Amy: And I was like, yeah, bill, you tell him like, oh, you're prank calling someone to like, make, uh, like advocate. You're not like telling him there's a refrigerator is running away.
Julia: Right. Oh, he's such a great character. And then, um, Leslie Mann is on it. Right. She's placed the teacher. Who's like just loves bill also.
Julia: And I just, I always loved that. And then I never researched it, but I always wondered if like that's how she and Judd Apatow med,
Amy: or if they already knew each other, you already, I wonder where they begin. Cause I do love. I do love them and their children. One of whom is on euphoria.
Julia: I didn't know that
Amy: mod.
Amy: No, she's in both.
Julia: She's in season. Why not? Listen, I watched season one before. COVID right? Yeah, same. So I'm, I'm like before I can watch season two after watch season one. 'cause it's been so
Amy: long. I should have watched season one. Again, I only watched the first episode of season two. Um, but yeah. Anyway, mod appetite is in euphoria.
Julia: I loved their Jergens commercials. They do together.
Amy: Yes. Yes. Oh,
Julia: the, what does she call? Those are
Amy: the elbows like, okay. That's
Julia: like I was at it and I don't inherit it though. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. But like I was at an event years ago with a family friend and she, we saw a mutual person we know, and she, and the Galler the same age.
Julia: So we're seven years apart and she looks at me and she goes, if my elbows do my elbows, look. The same age. Do my elbows look that old? I don't think so. Like I called
Amy: you out, like you have ashy elbows.
Julia: I was like, I don't lay your elbows. I'm sorry. But I tell you what since then, because it wasn't about me.
Julia: It was about this other gal. And then now I'm like the first thing I oil is my elbow.
Amy: I mean, yeah. Look, the Jergens commercial works because it made, I always am thinking about how my elbows are not moisturize. Yeah. Yeah. But that's another episode. I don't know. I just want, I'm just going to say that every time we get on a tangent, I
Julia: know, right.
Julia: It's great. We're going to have snippets.
Amy: Um, but let's but you mentioned, okay, so you mentioned, um, Plessy man is in it and there's, can we talk about other, so many good famous people, just in other famous people, Ben Stiller. Wait when here's
Julia: episode, he plays a secret service guy. Oh
Amy: yes. Okay. And then Shilah buff.
Amy: Yeah. Shiloh buff is the little mascot dude gets a concussion and, um, Goldberg from mighty ducks.
Julia: Yep. And the guy who's the puts the peanuts in, uh, his sandwich is from Sandlot. He's squints
Amy: from this. Right, right, right, right. Yes. I that, okay. That character, can we talk about him? I hate him.
Julia: Yeah. He's the worst.
Julia: He's the absolute worst. He literally almost killed bill. He's
Amy: literally so annoying all the time. Like the entire time, like.
Julia: And then, sorry, I'm cutting you off. And then, um, the gal who plays Sarah at later in the season, she is Janis Ian on mean girls.
Amy: Yeah. Yes. Janice, Ian. And then also this, this, person's not really famous, not super famous, but.
Amy: The M the head cheerleader, Vicky, the cheerleader she's from like Reba and other
Julia: stuff, I guess. Sweet Magnolia, I think is the thing I've seen her in. And then, um, people that don't have major roles, but, well, Mr. Raso he does he's on Gilmore girls leader. Oh
Amy: yeah. I was like, why do I know him? So funny also, so
Julia: is Matt Zu Cree he's on an episode, the episode where it's the big school, the one where Sam tries out to be the mascot and this high school rival Matt zoo.
Julia: Cree is part of the other school. And when Daniel and Kim and I think Ken are Vandal vandalized,
Amy: I was like
Julia: Logan. Yeah. And then, um, Thomas Rory's roommate in college, not Paris, not the runner, but the other one, the really scared timid one. She is in the math.
Amy: No, I have to see now. I'm like, I need to watch it again yet.
Amy: Again, I'm also the guy who plays Todd. He's like Disney channel stars and he,
Julia: oh my gosh. I don't know. But I'm going to believe
Amy: you. He's like, not in free Willy or something, but he's in like, he's in like those, I dunno, he's in like my childhood era movies. I swear.
Julia: I'm also convinced that everything can get tied to Gilmore girls.
Amy: I probably, I feel like Gilmore girls is like the Kevin bacon of millennials or something. Yeah,
Julia: 100%, 100. Cause she's all that has a connection to, um,
Julia: Gilmore girls, because Milo Ventimiglia plays one of the freshman soccer players who comes into the house to clean.
Amy: Oh my gosh. I D I you're blowing
Julia: my mind such a quick shot. You
Amy: knowing like my mind? Well, that's like, I mean, this is not the same thing, but it's like, do you know Seth Rogan is in, um, I just blanked on the name.
Amy: Jake Jilin hall, emo bunny rabbit, Donnie Darko said the organism. Donnie Darko one. Yeah. He's like a kid, the kid in the class that asks. He asks a dumb question. I can't remember what it, I was like, what?
Julia: Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm going to have to watch that again. It's been awhile. I watched you ever want to do a Donnie Darko episode, smuggled a VHS into my house because I wasn't allowed to watch rated R movie and I watched Donnie Darko late at night by myself.
Julia: You've got scared.
Amy: Yeah. Cause it's not, it's not for kids. Nope, Nope, Nope. Nope. I don't know. I mean, as a like hipster, emo middle schooler slash high schooler, I was like obsessed with Donnie Darko.
Julia: Yeah. Um, I just feel like through this show, I'm realizing all the reasons why I'm really messed up
Amy: because of all the TV we watched at the wrong age.
Julia: Yup. 100%, 100%. Maya, my yoga audio and intimate podcast experience of yoga. Just for you, your mind on your mat, listen, closely, expand exponentially hosted by Megan Morgan, a yoga teacher, writer, and artist. You can listen to her podcast wherever you find your podcasts. Okay. In June of 2021, indie wire ran this headline Judd Apatow, and Paul Feig rejected MTV offer for freaks and geeks, Susan, to over lower budget where readers learn that Judd Apatow turned down an offer from MTV to reduce a second season, ultimately appetite.
Julia: And Phique decided not to take the deal stating we didn't want to. We didn't want to do a weaker version of this. NBC had the money to bring in the music needed to add the quality and authenticity of the 1980s five. And you know, the opening song is Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. So of course that's cost money.
Julia: It's hard to think about what it would be like to have more than 18 episodes of freaks and geeks, but the careers of many of these young stars would have likely been different. If they had been committed to four seasons. Linda Carmelini has credits that include ER, legally blonde mad men dead to me. And more recently she plays Laura Barton, wife of Clint Barton, AKA Hawkeye, AKA, who is from Modesto.
Julia: So I got to throw that little bit of. T tag
Amy: in that God. Yes.
Julia: James Franco and Seth Rogen, as we mentioned, went on to do a numerous films together. Jason Siegel was in films like forgetting Sarah Marshall. And I love you, man. And his biggest hit was the TV show. How I met your mother busy Phillips was in shows like Dawson's Creek and cooker town.
Julia: And I actually think she had a couple of spots on
Amy: ERG. She's also in white chicks. That's right. And other numerous. And she's like, she's always playing. She always plays one of those kind of characters in like numerous other movies, but specifically
Julia: she's in white chicks. Yeah. And she's in, I feel pretty with Amy Schumer and was so happy to see her not playing some sort of aggressive or dopey type of blonde.
Julia: She was like even tempered friend. And it was so nice to see her in that room. Regardless of what the Casta freaks and geeks went on to do fans everywhere can't help, but wonder what happened to our dear friends over the course of their lives. So let's speculate a little bit. If there had been additional seasons, what kind of life events would you like would you have liked to see for freaks
Amy: and geeks friends?
Amy: I did a bad thing and I Googled the show before the, before this and he's that bad because on the Wikipedia page, there's a section where Paul Feig actually like told people what would happen to the characters. Had there been more seasons? Oh my God.
Julia: Tell me, tell us telephony. Okay. I have to
Amy: Google it again, but let me tell you what it says, because I was like, oh my goodness.
Amy: I'm dying to know because
Julia: Lindsey, why did I just hope
Amy: Wikipedia and freaks and geeks. Hello, Google. Can you hear me talking about freaks and geeks for the last hour? Okay. Freaks and geeks. Yeah. He says planned storylines. So according to Wikipedia in a 2012 interview with vanity fair, Paul Feig detailed, what ha what would have happened to the characters?
Amy: If the show had continued, Lindsey would become a human rights lawyer. So great years after following the grateful dead, which maybe, I don't know anything about timelines, but like I thought the grateful dead was earlier because my aunt followed the grateful. In
Julia: the sixties, I'm pretty sure they were touring up until Jerry Garcia died.
Julia: And so I feel like, um, that was a thing and they ha their following was just very much that sixties vibe, hence the characters in the
Amy: show. Got it. Okay. Okay. Sam would have joined the drama club, not too interesting. In my opinion, Neil would cope with his parents divorced by joining a swing choir in school.
Amy: What's a swing choir.
Julia: I have no idea. Okay. Like, do they sing swing music? I don't mean a thing. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds right.
Amy: Um, that sounds like really on brand for Neil. Um, bill would join the basketball team, becoming a jock and leading to tension with the geeks. I love that for bill, to be honest. I mean, I don't want him to be mean, but like, yeah, he's probably, he says this earlier in one of the earlier episodes that like, he, cause he's super tall already.
Amy: He's like, I'm going to fill out and I'm going to be like, you know, this big macho dude. It's like, yeah, bill, you probably are. Right. Um, Daniel ends up in jail.
Julia: Okay. Which makes me feel sad because when you think about how much, how hard when we get the insight of his family life, and it's just so sad.
Amy: Yeah.
Amy: And it's like, again, hello, Jeff, where are you being dealing? Yeah. Kim would become pregnant while on tour, following the grateful dead. Oh my God. Okay. So she is my aunt and Nick would be pressured by his strict father to join the army. Come on. I really wanted him not to do that, but yeah. Yeah,
Julia: he gets up, he goes AWOL.
Julia: That's not funny. It's not funny to go AWOL, but I feel like that would be in his
Amy: I'm trying to think like at the time, so it's in the eighties. So if he went to the army, would he end up in a war?
Julia: Cause when does the Gulf war start? That's like, I always affiliate. I was in ninth and nineties, like the early
Amy: nineties.
Amy: I think it was 90. Cause I was born in 91. Yeah. So, I mean, that's sad, but
Julia: it's not that it's not specific to a year in the eighties either, even though there's some like 1980 paraphernalia around in the scenery, you have to really pay attention for that. But they're very good at keeping it sort of vague about what year, but also vice president.
Julia: George Bush. Yeah. So, I mean, Ronald Reagan was president when I was born. So that was 84.
Amy: Who was George Bush? Vice president for?
Julia: I thought, I thought Ronald
Amy: Reagan. He, okay, well then that must be, yeah. So there you go. That must be it. Cause I don't. Yeah. The first president I like consciously remember is bill Clinton.
Amy: And I mostly remember it because of the scandal. Crazy. Cause I obviously did not understand at all what
Julia: that bro. I was 12 and I barely understood.
Amy: Nah, I was like a child
Julia: and bill are the only ones that I'm okay with.
Amy: I kind of Lindsey and Kim, sorry, go ahead. Well, Kim, I'm not like not okay with it, but I'm, you know yeah.
Julia: She's on that path kind of already. Anyway, she'll get pregnant from Daniel. She's getting pregnant from somebody.
Amy: I like, I would hope that she would get pregnant from Daniel and then, you know, I would hope that Kim and Lindsay would like deal with it together and it would be like inspiring. Yes.
Julia: Because I love again how she just, Lindsay is always such a good friend to Kim, regardless of like Kim going through her
Amy: stuff or like Kim.
Amy: Randomly inviting her to her house for dinner and lying to her parents, that she has a house in Benton Harbor. And then she's like, I've never been there. I don't know what am I supposed to say? And
Julia: she tries anyways,
Amy: Benton Harbor street. And
Julia: then I also. Like I love, I was really hoping that Daniel was in a redemption zone of like he's in with the geeks.
Julia: He's not going to go out and party anymore. Cause he was going to do Dungeons and dragons. Oh yeah, I would,
Amy: I, yeah, it would be so cool if he just like did a 180 and like became a geek. But also if he like bridged the gap, like he brought weed to Dungeons and dragons, like that would be a dream, right. It's like let's play Dungeons and dragons and also like have a beer and like pass the joint around.
Amy: That's just like the ideal little weekend.
Julia: Yeah. And I, and I, I just was really also rooting for Nick to become a better drummer and like, maybe not necessarily being a big band, but like a studio drummer where he's like playing music for a living. I,
Amy: in my mind, he goes on to become his character in forgetting Sarah Marshall, like a TV composer.
Julia: Yes. That's such a great line to draw. Oh
Amy: gosh. I'm like, oh, he does music. Yep. He's going to be that guy from forgetting Sarah Marshall. Yeah. I can't remember his name. I don't either,
Julia: but I love that movie. It's so funny. And, and I love you, man. I love, I love you, man. So I was dating this guy at the time it came out.
Julia: Moved to LA and he has a home visiting for the weekend. Cause it's family lived up here. And so we went and to go see it. And he, him, it was just so much fun. I don't know if it was because we both had just spent a weekend in LA together. And like, we were still like newly dating, even though we'd known each other forever.
Julia: And then also Rashida Jones is in it and tag team mixed. And so like, it was just like the perfect combination of all the positive things that you could make happen happening. So now I, even though like that, that relationship ended in a lot of tears. I still love watching that movie cause it brings back the feelings of that time and it just makes me so happy.
Amy: It's such a funny movie. And my friend and I in high school used to, I used to like have this not legit alter ego, but it was like a funny thing I would do sometimes. And it was my bro. Personality and we named him, Pete. Yeah. So then she would call me Pete and Peter and pistol Pete. And I would call her Jovan or like all the weird nicknames that Pete in the movie says.
Amy: Cause he's like, can't be a good bro.
Julia: Yeah. And John Fabro in that movie is so good.
Amy: Oh my gosh. It's yeah. And Paul, hello, Paul Rudd. Like, can we do a Paul Rudd episode? Like a post appropriation
Julia: and the whole hour I'm here for it watching his interview with, in between the ferns the other day. Oh gosh. Yes. I said something about like, you know, how to hide your Jewishness or sort of
Amy: like some, no, he says, are you a practicing Jew?
Amy: And he says, no, I've perfected it. He's so genius.
Julia: He's so funny. And I just love him so much. I mean, he's just America's sweetheart.
Amy: He really is. Yeah. He's not in freaks and geeks though. No,
Julia: he's not. Which is weird. You totally could have been. I think he should have been for it, especially considering what he was doing in the nineties.
Amy: That's what I would have liked for the next season for Paul Rudd to be in the next season.
Julia: That would have been awesome. And to see what could happen with, um,
Julia: Vicky and bill. Like maybe she's like, I can't stop thinking about
Amy: her secret CAS. Yes.
Amy: I just want to see bill blossom and feeling his mom. I just want to see him, you know? Yeah. Well,
Julia: oh my God. When his mom, when he's in the hospital, his mom was like, I was drinking a lot back then and I thought didn't we know that drinking ball pregnant was bad. Is that new? Was that like a new
Amy: thing? Well, he was born in the
Julia: sixties.
Julia: Right. Don't know.
Amy: I mean, they knew, but like people, it was like, oh yeah, you shouldn't drink. But like, I guess it's kind of, no, no. Yeah. Now they're like, don't even use. Anything
Julia: basically. Yeah. When I had my son, it was like, stay away from soft cheeses. And there was like a whole host of was just like
Amy: broth fish, which, okay.
Amy: Yeah, I get it too. She, she
Julia: all this stuff and I was just, yeah, I switched to decaf when I was pregnant.
Amy: Like, I mean, I'm like if, when, whenever I have a child, like, do we want the child to be born? Because if we want me to live through nine months of carrying said, child, I don't know. Um, am I not supposed to drink coffee?
Julia: I S I mean, I switched to decaf. All right. Well, this is also, that was really hard.
Amy: Listeners. Please submit your answers to this question. When you listen to this episode, do we need, can Amy drink coffee whenever she someday gets pregnant
Julia: and I'll keep you posted. And, um, and for friends at home, if you didn't know, bill is in the Spider-Man franchise, that includes Tom Holland.
Julia: He is the teacher at the high school and elicit a
Amy: lot of
Julia: things, but that's like the favorite thing that he's in, because he's just like, I just feel like you feel
Amy: like he's bill. Yeah, me too.
Julia: I just love him.
Amy: He's like the best. That's what happens to bill. He grows up and he becomes a high school teacher to Spiderman.
Amy: Yup. Even though it's in. New York or an era from Detroit.
Julia: And, uh, you know, I love the shrine. He built for him in the most recent research. Uh, so funny
Amy: anyway, Aisha, honestly, if I could have had a lower budget second season or like show, they could have made an offshoot about bill and I would have been so happy.
Amy: Cause then the other like bigger name characters, like James Franco and maybe the more expense. Well, they weren't that expensive then, but the more expensive actors stuff and yeah. And music and whatever, they could have had less of it just saying Jetta habitat and Paul fee, you should have talked to me.
Amy: You turned it down. So here we are, we
Julia: feel like you didn't fully consider the offer. You're
Amy: like, we can't have the music we want, so we're not going to do it. That's really rude. I feel that that was rude. Agreed
Julia: agreed because there's so much potential for that show and it was so great. And again, to your point about having actors who are high school, you know, appropriately cat age cast play these characters, like that's a big deal because so often they're like Andrea from 900 to,
Amy: yeah.
Amy: Although as far as casts, so other than casting, like they're really amazing. And the chemistry is so good. I have one complaint. Diversity. There is none. Yeah. Like where Shita Jones is the only character of color I can even think of. And she's not a character. Like, you know, she's not, she's not character, just a person, but yeah, the only, the only complaint I guess I have is diversity.
Julia: That's a fair, I think that's a fair complaint. Cause you're talking about Michigan. I don't know what the diversity numbers are in Michigan from the eighties, but if you're a Detroit suburb, there's gotta be some sort of overflow from Detroit happening, I would think.
Amy: Yeah. And also, especially cause it's like their high school is not, um, is not necessarily, you know, none of them are like, it's not like a high, high income, it's it, there are low income students.
Amy: So that would be like, well, it's not like they're in some like white suburbia. Right. Which they kind of are, I guess. It does leave room for diversity there just as there's socioeconomic
Julia: status of everybody in the school. Isn't the same. Whereas like nowadays, like my high school, the high school I went to was like, that's where all the rich kids went and fair.
Julia: There's a lot of BMWs in the parking lot.
Amy: Same Amy.
Julia: I love it. When you stop by, I feel like it's such a great conversation and I really appreciate your time today. And can you please tell our friends where they can find you if they want to keep up with
Amy: you on. Sure the best places to find me are on Instagram or Twitter.
Amy: I recommend Instagram before Twitter and for both places, that's at the Amy Albertsons. So at the a M Y a L B E R T S O N, and holler at me, slide into my DMS.
Julia: Nice and friends. You can find us on Instagram as always. We are at pop culture makes me jealous. We will link to Amy's and stuff. So that way you can follow her journey and get an education like I have been.
Julia: And I really appreciate
Amy: it. Thank you.
Julia: No, thank you for all your work that you put into that. I know it takes a lot of time, so I am definitely growing and I appreciate that
Amy: amazing
Julia: friends. Thanks for tuning in y'all until next time.
Amy: Bye.
Amy: Love our
Julia: show and want to support it. There's a few ways you can do that. Become a supporter of ours on Patrion for $10 a month and receive ad free episodes with bonus content. Or you can write a review and rate our podcast wherever you find your podcasts. And if neither of those are your style, go ahead and find us on Instagram.
Julia: Give us a follow and share a video clips with your friends. We're on IgG as pop culture makes me jealous. Pop culture makes me jealous is written, edited and produced by me, Julia Washington, your host. Thanks for tuning in y'all until next time.
Looking for more?