Practical Magic
Show Notes:
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We are revisiting our Still Comfy? episode about Practical Magic.
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Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous, where we analyze pop culture through the lens of race or gender and sometimes both. I'm your host, Julia Washington, and on today's show we are revisiting a still comfy episode from last year, Practical Magic. I've edited this show down because as many of you know, I'm a stickler for an hour ish long show.
Julia: If you want to watch the full episode uncut and live, you can watch the replay on YouTube. I'll link it in the show notes for you. But before we dive in, I wanted to share a few things with you. I'd like to do a big shout out to Kelly Peralt. She is the owner and creative mind behind Pleasant Creative Co and has some awesome designs.
Julia: Uh, may have seen me on Instagram wearing a hat that says introvert on it. That's one of hers. She also designed our jelly pops book club logo. And so I've linked her shop in the show notes so you can go check her out. I also want to shout out our past guest, Tracy Stinger. She hosts a program called the space you want.
Julia: I participated last year. She offers. These things called junk drawer sessions and all kinds of other support to help you get your mind right about your business. I've also linked her in the show notes. Both of these women are members of our Patreon community and without them, this show would be a shell.
Julia: So now to, to get to why we're all here today, here we go. To the show.
Julia: Friends, welcome to Still Comfy with Jules and Nat. This week on the show, we're discussing the 1998 classic, Practical Magic. But before we dive in, let's do some introductions. I'm Julia Washington, host of Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous, where we analyze pop culture through the lens of race or gender and sometimes vote.
Julia: Both? I mean,
Natalie: yes, also vote. But do vote and I'm joined by I'm Natalie Katona, a host of the weekly podcast to all the men I've tolerated before your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Hmm.
Julia: Mm hmm. It sure is. And Natalie is not short of any topics because friends, what do we do? Live in misogyny
Natalie: and that's why we should vote.
Natalie: That's why
Julia: we should vote. Okay. So let's dive in a recap real quick, uh, or a summary real quick of what practical magic was about for those of us, or for those of you who weren't born in the century when you could have seen it live on in the movie theater.
Natalie: Or on the super station,
Julia: Sally and Jillian Owens born into a magical family have mostly avoided witchcraft themselves, but when Jillian's vicious boyfriend, Jimmy angel of dies unexpectedly, the Owen's sister give themselves a crash course in hard magic with detective Gary Hallett, growing suspicious, the women struggled to resurrect Jimmy and, and unwittingly Unwittingly inject his corpse with an evil spirit that threatens to end their family line.
Julia: So the movie opens with a flashback of Maria Owens at her own hanging in the 17th century. She is accused of being a witch because apparently that's all women are allowed to be. And even then they're not allowed to be. And it is a voiceover as we're watching the scene unfold. We hear Stockard Channing's voice telling the story of Maria Owens and the history of magic within the Owens family and the Owens women and the story of the curse.
Julia: And then we come into present day, sort of present day. Then we flash forward to the 90s to the night to, well, and then we see Jillian and, um, Sally as little girls and their parents are very clearly in love. And then their mother hears the sound of them because when Maria realizes that she, her pregnant self is not being rescued, she places a.
Julia: What turns into a curse that any man who falls in love with an Owens woman will meet an untimely death?
Natalie: She did it accidentally.
Julia: It was, yeah, I don't think she meant to like curse generations. She didn't like scream
Natalie: into the sky or anything. She was just begrieved. Yes.
Julia: Yes. And it's hard. Being pregnant alone is hard.
Julia: It's hard. It's hard.
Natalie: Especially in
Julia: 1690 something.
Natalie: Yeah, she was already like trying to be hanged. For witchcraft and then like, I mean, the whole movie's message is your manifestations come true. So be careful what you're screaming into the
Julia: night. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I apologize for my dog.
Julia: Somebody must be in their front yard doing yard work. And she does not like
Natalie: that. You're not allowed. Not during our live.
Julia: Okay. So Natalie, you know me. I like to look up reviews when I'm the one hosting our things. And I have to tell you, our resident misogynist, Roger Ebert said practical magic is too scary for children and too childish for adults.
Julia: Who was it made for? On the one hand, you have cute witches making jokes about magic potions and herbal shampoos. And on the other hand, if you have a kidnapping by an abusive boyfriend who dies of an overdose, but not for long, moldy evil spirits rise up out of the other people's bodies and teaspoons stir on their own.
Natalie: Okay, Roger. Well, I too read a review, but I don't care about Roger Ebert. So I only read reviews by actual practicing witches. Oh, I love that. And I found an article that broke down a bunch of like witch media and what actually betray portrays witchcraft in the most respectful and true to nature self and it was practical magic.
Natalie: So it was for us, Roger. It was for The Witches. That's who it was for. Honestly,
Julia: he's a Pulitzer Prize winner, and I'm kind of thinking, you know, I know the man's dead, but what movie was ever for him to review, you
Natalie: know? Yeah. It was for us, Robert. Roger. Too Scary for Children and Too Childish for Adults. I saw this movie when I was a child.
Natalie: If it came out in 98, I was
Julia: 10. Yeah, I was 14 and I watched it and I don't remember being scared and you know me. Yeah, and you're scared.
Natalie: Intense shit. Yeah, no, I, this, I texted people last night and I was like, stop allowing me to tell people that I'm too cool. For a favorite movie and like, when people are like, what's your favorite movie?
Natalie: I'm like, oh, it's just like, really? It depends on like the temperature and like the way that my hair is laying that day and like what I had for breakfast. Like I like I have to like read the vibe and it no, it's fucking practical magic. It's fucking practical magic. I crafted my entire like, dream adulthood around practical magic and getting to live the practical magic lifestyle.
Natalie: I love
Julia: that. I'm sorry. I was like, I was trying to be, cause you know, I'm trying to, with the dog, can you even hear
Natalie: her? I can hear her. Yeah. Alice Hoffman, who is the author of the book, Practical Magic and The guy who wrote The Alchemist, but I didn't read The Alchemist. I read The Witch of Portobello.
Natalie: Together, they crafted how I practice witchcraft. Oh. They crafted. They just craft how. Like my spirituality and they're the reason I left christianity. So pro pro in the practical magic column
Julia: I love that you've found reviews from other um, like practicing like witches and covens and what have you because that's one of the things that I think is so easy with um when I because when I was watching it, I was like gosh like The nineties had a lot of like witchy vibes.
Julia: We had the craft, we had practical magic. We had Buffy the vampire slayer, um, the TV show and the movie and like a bunch of other things, teen witch, teen witch, um, Sabrina, the teenage witch, you know, and so there was just a whole witchy vibe happening and
Natalie: I.
Julia: I'm not going to say it's a favorite movie, my favorite movie, but I definitely loved this movie.
Julia: I read the book too, before the movie came out and I really enjoyed the book. It's been over 20 years since I've read the book though, so, oh, 1997 is when I read the book. I was 13 years old.
Natalie: Well, at least. The book that you read when you were 13 years old about witches was Practical Magic because my mother handed me Anne Rice's The Mayfair Witches.
Natalie: Oh, Anne
Julia: Rice's interesting
Natalie: writing. Right, the sex I read about to the point where in my adulthood when I told a guy that that was one of my favorite books, when he was like, what's a book I should pick up at a second hand bookstore to get to know you, and I went, I don't know, Anne Rice's Mayfair Witches.
Natalie: My friend scolded me. She's also a practicing, like. member of the witchy woman club. And she was like, what did you tell him? And I was like, the Mayfair witches. And she's like, he's going to read that. And now I want you to list all of the things he's going to think you're into. And I went, fuck, fuck the sex in that book.
Natalie: It's weird.
Julia: Oh man. Did he ever come back to find you? You know what? I
Natalie: believe that our, um, relationship. Raveled unraveled shortly thereafter. Okay. I like to think that practical magic just extended the Owens sisters curse onto my love life. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You know,
Natalie: I mean, no one's dead, but yeah, I
Julia: was like, how do I ask my next question? There's a lot of death in this
Natalie: movie. No one's dead. They're just dead to me. And honestly, Same thing. Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. I cried a lot this time. Did you? Oh, 100 like totally. There was like crying about the sister relationship crying about like when, um, stalker Channing and Diane vice tell her like, Oh, we didn't, we didn't.
Julia: You know, the spell. We didn't think that he'd be affected by the spell. Like, we didn't think you'd actually fall in love. We were just trying to help. We were just
Natalie: trying to help. We were just trying to get you laid. Which, like, good on your great aunties for just trying to get you laid. I'm like, I love it.
Natalie: Yes, but
Julia: also, like, why would you assume she wouldn't fall in love? Like, that guy seems like an actual decent
Natalie: human. I know, and like, I think this, and I think like every year, because I watch it every year. And I just like, I'm past the point where like I sob during it, I just like wistful tears during it.
Natalie: I'm like, my wistful autumnal cry to practical magic. And, um, I think this year and last year was the first time where I was like, I mean, now I feel bad for her first husband. Just some unsuspecting dude who like loves produce and he gets hit by a goddamn truck,
Julia: which feel, which also felt like, why didn't the truck try to.
Natalie: Stop. Why was there a truck behind a bicycle marathon? Correct. Why wasn't the road closed off? What was happening in that small
Julia: seaside? Listen, we had Amgen come in a couple years ago, at first multiple years, and streets were blocked off. Right. Like, even surrounding streets. Like, here's the road they're riding on, but then, like, a three block radius is blocked
Natalie: off.
Natalie: Yeah. Yeah, so none of it makes sense, except for it was a curse. It was a
Julia: curse. It was a curse. I
Natalie: believe, and I might be misremembering, because there was like an entire year where I was only reading Alice Hoffman, and somehow none of the Alice Hoffman that everyone else was reading. Oh, that's funny. Um, I did...
Natalie: Make sure to download a bunch of her books from the library last night in a manic craze, but, um, is the season and so I believe it's the rules of magic, which is kind of a prequel. Now there's two prequels and maybe a sequel and that goes into Maria. story. And what I like about Alice Hoffman's books is that they're like a comforting, like, book series because the witchy ones follow the exact same format.
Natalie: Lady gets her family cursed, and then we follow three generations of cursed ladies.
Julia: Okay. Yeah, I dig. I dig. Oh, that's interesting. The only Alice Hoffman book I've ever read is Practical Magic.
Natalie: Yeah, for whatever reason, I haven't read Practical Magic and I don't know if it's because I'm like, well, I have the movie memorized.
Natalie: I think I have it on audiobook. That's how I like to read books that I've seen as movies. Yeah,
Julia: I think I support that. That and memoirs. I'm like, you can tell me the stories. I don't need to read it. Just tell me the story. Um. So in this time, cause so you watch it every year. I watch it every year. I was going to say, cause this time around, the things that, you know, I'm like sobbing, right?
Julia: When I watched the movies in 98, I'm like, Oh, it's all this movie. Oh my gosh. And then now that I have life experience behind me and lost loves and like shitty love. Mm hmm. I'm over here like,
Natalie: oh, yeah. No, you're heartbroken. And I'm just blissfully crying at the beauty. Yes. And then
Julia: when Aiden Quinn shows up and he's got
Natalie: one blue eye and he can flip cactus shaped pancakes.
Natalie: Yes. He's just like a good old cowboy. Mm hmm. Like the fact that a good old cowboy from the South married a, well, Southwest Southwest. Yeah. It's very different. The Southwest. Yes. Married a witchy woman who sells lotions and potions to the local lake. Yahoo's in town. I love it. I, so in my perfect adulthood, practical magic, when I have fuck it money, I either buy that house or I have some strapping young carpenter build me that house because I'm eccentric and I have Fuck it money.
Natalie: And I only dress like stalker
Julia: Channing. Uh, okay. Can we talk about their costuming for a moment? Because I was like, girls, ladies, women, I appreciate that you look like you are in the Victorian era. Is this you telling us that this is how old you are, or is this you just having a nod to the fact that you live in a clearly Victorian built home and that you have special magic powers?
Natalie: What I really appreciate about the movie is that you subtly. Get like all of the forms of witchy woman. So you have like stalker Channing who is very much like Gothic, Victorian, yes, centric auntie, which the dream. Then you have Diane beast who is like cottage core herbal, like. Garden witchy. Then you have like Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman, Sally and Jilly, who are just like, we're just trying to like blend witches, like broom closet witches.
Natalie: And then you go to the lotions and potions shop and there's a practitioner who is like. Modern gothic witchy who's just like out and proud and just like swathed in black like lace Yeah, oh she yelling she yelling at that dog
Natalie: Well, I don't know what to tell you but yes That's what I really appreciate about the movie is that and I think that's what I picked up the most during this watch around which Is like how they really do somehow focus and yet not focus on the fact that they are everyday witches living in an everyday lifestyle.
Julia: Yeah. You know what else kind of was, I felt was kind of cool. Not cool. That's the wrong word. The sister dynamics. Right. So like with Jillian and. Sally. Sally's clearly the very talented one when it, like, she's naturally gifted when it comes to witchcraft and the aunts tell her that like, Oh, you're so good.
Julia: Even her daughters call her out. Like you have so much power and you don't use it. And then Jillian's just kind of like, well, what am I good for? And they're like, You'll find out dear. And I was like, if that isn't 100% a sister, like a sister setup where you're just like, but they, but what I loved about it is that how they don't let that become a wedge between them.
Julia: Where in other movies, like when we did a league of their own, that's a wedge between him and Dottie. Like it creates tension, even though Dottie's still like down for her sister. There's still a wedge and Kit still has a chip on her shoulder, but with Jillian and Sally, Jillian doesn't have a chip on her shoulder.
Julia: She's like, fuck this shit. I'll get out when I want to, when I'm ready to get out and I'll go live my life. And then Sally's like, cool. I got you. I miss you terribly, but we're in it together. Proof positive when Jillian calls and is like, my boyfriend's beating me. And Sally's like, I got you. Where are you?
Julia: I'll come get you. Like, there's no issue. Like they're so tight and close. And I love that because we so often get. This sister's clearly the superior one, and then the little sisters chipped about it. Mm-hmm. and it's, or the other
Natalie: sisters chipped about it, and it's not even like that. They're estranged. And then the Jimmy drama of it all brings them back together.
Natalie: Like they've clearly kept in contact mm-hmm. , and they've been writing letters the entire time and getting phone calls when they can. Yep. And then like their blood magic also like hints them off as to what the other one is doing. And you're right, like, it's one of those things where it's like, Jilly, you said, did you tell me that the book focuses more on Jilly than it does Sally?
Natalie: I don't remember. Cool. I've heard that the book focuses more on Jilly's past. And it's not that Jilly isn't talented. I find her magic to just be more volatile, like her volatile spirit. Like that plays a role in it too. We're like Sally is the calm and steady one. And therefore. Her magic, even though it's dimmed because she's out of practice, will come back because she is calm and steady.
Natalie: And then we've got Killian over here, who's a little wild and a little volatile and poisons her boyfriends. By the way, I think every woman should just like, have a list of things that you can keep in your kitchen that will slowly poison someone that needs it. And that's my platform. I believe I said that during Thelma and Louise too.
Natalie: I go, I think we should just murder if we need to.
Julia: I'm just very concerned that this will be used as evidence one day if somebody tries to accuse you of something. Not if I'm good
Natalie: at it. Oh my!
Natalie: Not if I take my own advice. Oh my god. But the fact that like, and the fact that she didn't think that like, overdosing on belladonna would eventually kill her boyfriend. I'm like, oh, Jilly. You just, she's like, I just needed to sleep and I needed him to not be on top of me. Yeah. And like, been there. Yeah.
Natalie: Because the intent... The intensity of Jimmy Angelo is a very like in it's an intensity that I've fallen right into where it's like you feel what about me you're gonna let our love destroy the stars and I'm like oh dangerous but also hot like
Julia: more like murderous and also
Natalie: hot I mean honestly like but but you get like especially when you have like a wild eccentric like volatile nature like Julie does like that is a perfect cocaine guy for you where you're like, I'm addicted to him. He's addicted to me. I'm addicted to him. And I'm in there. I thought I remember Julie doing drugs, but I might have mixed up like a scene of practical magic with like a scene of Rockstar or something where I'm like, why isn't Julie doing coke?
Natalie: Isn't that why we go and get her? Oh, I
Julia: don't know. I know. I mean, I just remember her being a smoker in the movie. Was she a smoker
Natalie: in the movie? Yeah, she was a smoker in the movie. Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. And then I, I, I didn't forget about the twist about how
Julia: like Patterns of behavior with women, you know, I think one of the reasons why I cried also about this film again is how you could literally drop it into 2022 and it still works because of the themes because of the abuse that's happening towards women, you know, the, the percentage. The, the statistics on, on abuse towards women haven't improved.
Julia: They're still really high in 30 years. It's it's nothing's changed. So taking that element. Taking this movie and dropping it into 2022. You're just like, this is still very accurate. And that's also hard,
Natalie: right. And you can't always trust that your sister is going to fall in love with the cop who's like, trying to investigate your boyfriend's murder that you poisoned.
Natalie: And then like, it's going to work out most of the time, right? Everyone is fall, like the lengths that we go to like avenge the murder of a bad, bad man. I'm like, why? Like so many police resources and we just care that he's gone? So I
Julia: actually took it as he was investigating all of the women. the murder of all of the women.
Natalie: Okay. And I think he was like hired by their families.
Julia: And then, and then the twist is, Oh, he's now dead.
Natalie: Yeah. He's dead to which I would have gone in. Good day, ladies. Thank you for doing my job and like walked away. Like there needs to be more of that. Like, Oh, you took a bad, bad man off of the street. Good day, ladies.
Natalie: Goodbye. Yeah. Cause
Julia: he's not subjectively bad. He's objectively bad. Like he's a bad, bad man. Abuse that he's bestowed upon. Um, Jillian and you're just like, Oh my God,
Natalie: he brings women. Yes.
Julia: This is serial killer shit. Yeah. It's kind of like serial killer shit, but light because this movie is PG 13 for
Natalie: 1990 soundtrack.
Natalie: Yes. Cause we got Stevie Nicks and we have Joni Mitchell. And then all of a sudden we have some like Faith Hill thrown in there and I'm like, I love this.
Julia: It's amazing. Speaking of, um, the New York times original review said it's Barbie joins a coven. Time as Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman shake their long, flossy hair and play witch sisters with otherworldly decorative qualities.
Julia: So here's the thing. Barbie meets Coven.
Natalie: Here's only, here's the thing about these reviews that are clearly written by men. When we were too scary and too powerful, you burned us. Yes. When we were too scary and too powerful, you literally...
Julia: Natalie, that was written by Janet Maslin. Okay,
Natalie: well, she is a traitor.
Natalie: Okay, I can't help it. Some women are bad and they don't deserve my support. I don't know more about her except for she's a traitor. And so when we were scary ladies who were powerful, we were bad, bad ladies and you burned us and you hanged us. Um, but then when we're pretty Sandra Bullock Tannicles. Uh, store, then we're not real, which is to, so it's like, which is a patriarchy, which is it?
Natalie: Yeah. You can't have it both ways. I didn't get Barbie vibes. No. At all. No, none. I'm so angry. I can't believe it. Well, and here's the thing, too. Like, why do we hate a soft, pretty movie? Like, what about this movie was too pretty that we didn't actually, like, get a lot out of it?
Julia: You know, I don't know because it has all the themes I'm looking for in a movie or not all the themes, but it has it has a lot of themes that I think hold really well and are long lasting.
Julia: And I think that even though the film was 1998, you don't really get a 98 vibe. I don't know if that's because I lived in 1998. So it feels real,
Natalie: you know what I
Julia: mean? But it doesn't feel dated to me because you do have the witchy aunties who are dressed in an air, you know what I mean? Because there's just so much about the style that still works
Natalie: regardless.
Natalie: I do believe that the Owens women lived for a long, long time. Mm. I believe that was also part of it, except for their mom who died of a broken heart. Right. Women, I believe in a lot of folklore, witchy. Women tend to live for a long, long time, which I believe is where the, like we eat children to survive.
Natalie: Like
Julia: comes from lore,
Natalie: comes from, yeah. No, we just got good herbs in our skincare. Try it. .
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Olive oil also in and
Natalie: on just in and on in and on in and on. I love that. Also. Sally is. Referred to as in the broom closet, which is a very real thing, however, is like you can't be on in the broom closet and also the like local apothecary Sally
Natalie: with your kids screaming at you that you have immense power in the street. Right.
Julia: Evan Rachel Wood. How about how I didn't realize that was her until this. time because my time gap between seeing Practical Magic and then the next time I see Evan Rachel Wood is probably 10
Natalie: years. Yeah, because she's a full ass adult by the next time we see her, right?
Natalie: And like, yeah, she's like, I think she's your age. Strawberry universe. No, across the universe. Strawberry fields forever, man.
Julia: 2010. Another great soundtrack. Oh, 100%.
Natalie: You remember when movies had great soundtracks? Oh yeah. Bodies, bodies, bodies has a great soundtrack and it's like because it's all up here the entire time
Julia: so you can club.
Julia: Yeah, 2007. So not so nine years. Yeah, but the point is the same. She's a grown ass adult by the time this comes around, you know, she's, I didn't realize, um, how much, uh, I didn't, I didn't realize she had a relationship with Marilyn
Natalie: Manson. Oh, yeah. They were, they almost married
Julia: people. I don't know, but she procreated with the kid from Billy Elliot.
Julia: What's his name? I don't know.
Natalie: She procreated.
Julia: Yeah. I don't remember if they were actually married, but they share a child. Um, and then, Oh, 13. That's right. She was in 13. Oh, that's right. I love 2003. Um, but then she, then like her, her, what is his name? He's married to, it. Mara Rooney. No, that's, that's, that's the sister.
Julia: Rooney Mara's the sister. What's the other one called?
Julia: This is gonna bother me. This is not what we're here for, but now I've fallen down.
Natalie: Jamie Bell! I still, like, you said his name and I should have gone, aha! And I'm like, no, I don't care about white men. He's British,
Julia: but same thing. Um, the
Natalie: original white. I know
Julia: the original white. So they were married, had child. Then she enters a relationship with Marilyn Manson. It's abusive as we've learned, Marilyn Manson relationships are.
Julia: So she flees essentially with said child. So then Jamie Bell's like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, where are you taking my kid? And she was citing like, we have to be safe. I'm sorry. This includes me saving the child as well. And it was like a whole thing. I don't know if their custody stuff ever got resolved, but then he married.
Julia: Or is in relationship with, cause they just had a child. Kate Mara.
Natalie: Hmm. I was under the impression that Marilyn Manson groomed her when she was like 16. I didn't know she was a full ass mom. Um, you can still get groomed as an adult. I'm
Julia: convinced. I was going to say you can still, I feel like you can still get groomed.
Julia: Cause that was in 2000, wait, maybe it was in the relationship was before. I just remember, I'm going to have to fact check, I just remember that she was like, took off to another state in the middle west somewhere with said child she had with Jamie Bell and basically like told the court it's for the safety of myself and my child because Brian is dangerous.
Julia: So I don't know the timeline of her relationships. I just know that she and Jamie Bell were like 10 years ago, probably married. None of this matters. Let's get back to little Evan Rachel Wood playing Kylie,
Natalie: which is the little girls do such a good job Even like the original little girls that are playing like Sally and Jilly like such a good job.
Natalie: Yeah, such a wonderful job The whole movie
Julia: is just really well done To the point where you're just like why can't more movies be femme for
Natalie: why? Uh, because they'd burn us and they'd hane us. Oh, I'll, I'll,
Julia: Robin, I don't know who this person is. I was looking up who wrote the screenplay. Bo, that's a dude. I can't pronounce his name.
Julia: I'm not going to try. And that's a woman. Okay. But the Griffin Doon is the director. That's a dude. But they did it such a good job, I think. It's very rare, I feel like, a man can take a female's story, a female's femme positive story and, and actually
Natalie: make it. Maybe Hoffman had a really heavy hand in it.
Natalie: Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. I wasn't there. I don't I wasn't there either. Maybe Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman just took everything in their own hands. Maybe Stalker Channing was like, I've got this. Yeah. And Stalker Channing does have
Julia: this. She's so good. Oh my God. Everything she's in. She's amazing. I do remember during the press junket that, you know, the scene when they're like, The Jimmy Buffett song comes on and they're gin the margaritas or whatever.
Julia: I remember it was either Nicole Kidman or Sandra Bullock. It might have been Nicole Kidman. Like somebody from Entertainment Tonight might have been John Tesh. It was like, we heard a rumor that you guys were really actually drinking during that scene. Is it true? And they're like, Yeah.
Natalie: Yeah. Because how else are you going to get tequila loose unless there is tequila involved?
Natalie: Like, that's what makes that scene so great is that they are all different variations of tequila loose. Yes. And then I think this was the first time that I made the, so at first I thought that Like the tequila ritual the midnight margaritas was literally just a way to infuse joy back into your home or joy To make sure that joy carries into your home because it's dancing.
Natalie: It's drinking It's having a good time and then they're making jokes off of one another Mm hmm I think this was the first time I made the connection that it was Jimmy's tequila and That was actually making them bitter towards one another. Oh Mm hmm Yeah, because the shit that they say and they're like, I don't even know why I'm saying that like yeah, yeah That's a really
Julia: good observation that I also didn't take into consideration either, because when they see the bottle and she's like, where did the, it was on the porch,
Natalie: you know, well, because the thing about the Owens women who, and it carries throughout the entire movie is because of the Maria curse, their entire existence has been like, Around the idea that feelings and words matter and therefore they're always choosing their words carefully because once you say it, you can't take the intention back, which is why they have the whole scene where she, like, she's like, get your finger down and she screams.
Natalie: Oh, you get chickenpox and she's screaming at her kid in the middle of the street. We don't ask people get into the store. And then we later learned that child does that child. Yeah. That child gets, well, in one of the women is like, I'm, I'm not saying that they killed this Jimmy guy. I'm saying that like, maybe they shook his hand and then he died.
Natalie: Like shit like that happens to them. Yeah. Yeah. Like the whole weaving of the like. Words matter and your intentions matter, and the fact that the curse didn't come from an outside source, it literally came from the sorrow and the grief and the anger that Maria just continuously built up into herself until it spread to her baby and down generations.
Natalie: Right.
Julia: That's a really good point. I mean, it's generational trauma. In which form?
Natalie: It's witchy generational trauma. It's witchy generational trauma. I also love when she's like, give me something white to write on his chest and it's whipped cream and I was like, yes, that is exactly what you do as a practicing witch in the 90s, the 20, 22s, anytime.
Natalie: Yeah. You look around your kitchen and you're like, what did it call for? Black salt? Fuck. I don't know. I'll draw some like charcoal on there and then I'll put the salt on it and that counts. That, that totally. I'm not making black salt. Do you know how long that takes? And I'm not buying it on Etsy. Do you know how much that costs to ship?
Natalie: Okay. I can't like, I can't have all of the things at all in time. And that is very much how I run my practice where I'm like, what did this call for? Hmm. And you know what? We'll just say it three times like it's in there. Like the energy and the essence is in there. Imitation vanilla from the kitchen.
Julia: I will say too that in that scene, when they're like, okay, this is, you know, what we chant over and over again, and they're sort of fumbling through it.
Julia: And then when they sync up. They start saying it and they're just sort of in this really great, like vibrational mm-hmm. , um, moment, repeating the phrase over and over and over again. There's something like really compelling about that. 'cause it's like we, at that point, it's like they've always been in instinct to an extent, right?
Julia: They've always been really close. We have established that already, but in this moment, they're not in sync because they don't agree on what to do about Jimmy. Mm-hmm. and like Sandra Bullock's characters. Kicking and screaming, going into it, but then they click and it happens and it works and you're just like, damn, that's powerful.
Natalie: Well, and it's like, they did it without consulting the aunties and it's like, no, you always consult your aunties. Like, that's why we have aunties. I also appreciate, I paid attention to the grimoires this go around too. And I love that little Sally's is literally a junk journal. I'm like, Oh, cause I do that too.
Natalie: Like you just collage and then you like. Right down your little protection jar. And it was like next to a really awesome hot shot of J Lo like J Lo protect me.
Julia: Please J Lo or please J Lo because of her recent marriage.
Natalie: Oh yeah. She's back to Ben Affleck, which is unfortunate, but it's also what's really moving about the end of the movie where all of the neighborhood women who have really.
Natalie: Done the most in perpetuating the outsider feel of the Owens women and like keeping them separate and keeping them ostracized. They get one phone call on a phone tree and all they, and I wrote down, I was like, women don't always understand. Witchcraft in the, in the concept of just women harnessing their power and then using it or women coming together as a group and together obtaining a goal, I go, but they do understand when you pick up the phone and say, a man is hurting my sister, we need help.
Natalie: Like, that insult in itself is a power that women across the board, very rarely do you get a phone call like, I need help getting my sister, a man is hurting her. And some lady is like, nah, like the car's been acting up. I don't know. Right.
Julia: Right. Right. And again, that leans, it lends, it leans into the femme forward narrative and themes that this movie holds, especially because they didn't want Sally to be at the top of the phone tree and it just magically happens anyway.
Julia: But yet they still have the willingness to support and be a part of that. And it, you know, and I, and I appreciate how the one chick, she's like, it's always like, Oh, and Sarah. So I'm surprised you're here. She's like, Oh, I've always wanted to know what the inside of your house looks like.
Natalie: That's what gets me about the end of the movie is like the playful curiosity that women will embrace if you tell them that you're practicing and they're like.
Natalie: Will you like I have often been scolded because I have shown up to an event without my tarot And they're like you didn't bring them and I'm like, well, they're not really a party trick I'm right you have to ask me to bring them I go because if I do bring them and someone is super churchy or super like Indifferent or super negative towards this practice.
Natalie: A, it's not going to work because they're interrupting the energy flow. And B, I don't want to be disrespectful at your bachelorette party because we didn't know that someone was going to like go home in tears about it. It's like when I'm forced to pray before meal meals and I just sit there and I'm like, okay, Jesus.
Natalie: I find it very hard to pray to a deity that we have made male.
Julia: Yeah, I, um, so there are times when I'm like, When we're around religious family and my son's like, doesn't really know what to do, part of me is like, I'm not embarrassed. I'm equal parts proud and part equal parts like, oh, maybe I should have like, figured out a way to be respectful of this situation, but being, you know, Cool.
Julia: Leaning back into the, I don't give a shit. Cause that shit was traumatic for me. So I'm not doing that to my kid. It always wins.
Natalie: So, yeah, like I thought that that was brilliantly done too. And that last thing where all of the women were just like, so giddy to be a part of it. Like, Oh, we're going to get to do the thing, the thing that we've been like scared of the entire time and part of it left out on too, you know?
Natalie: And it's a really great allegory for like, How society has made women scared of their own power too because when women are Powerful women get punished. Yeah. So here you are. You're a basic white lady in your seaside town You're just trying to get your kids off to fourth grade and here are these eccentric as fuck botanical lotions and potions shop owning women Who literally probably in your mind get to live the exact life that you're like, only I hadn't given my soul to the conventional ways of the nineties.
Natalie: Maybe I too could have an awesome hat like Stalker Channing. Yep. Because Stalker Channing's
Julia: the best. She's the
Natalie: best. She can't wait to have you. Fuck it. Money. I drove. Not today. I'm in a sweatshirt today. But there are moments where I'm like, I've dressed full practical magic for my day. Like I, like, someone's going to take one look at me and go, this is a witch.
Natalie: And then like, I'm getting burdened at the stake because I live in the Midwest. It's happening today. Oh
Julia: my gosh. Um, do you think you'll read the book
Natalie: ever? Listen, it's on my, it's on my damn phone. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you're going to read it. I know. Well, and chalk that up to ADHD and hyper focus.
Natalie: Currently, I'm only reading things that my book club fix. So, um, I have always made it a goal to read the book and I don't know why I don't. And now I, this might be the year because I am craving more, more Context about what Jilly did before Jimmy. Mm hmm because it looked like again It looked like she was having an okay of a time.
Natalie: Yeah.
Julia: Well, I mean she was definitely partying and having fun And she
Natalie: wasn't like strung out Jenny from Forrest Gump partying.
Julia: That's true So, yeah, that's true. But I wonder, I see now I should reread the book because I feel like there was a point
Natalie: where you get part of your book club and then it's homework for
Julia: me to do it.
Julia: There you go. Because there's a part of me that vaguely remembers that Jillian was in like a lot more, like, Like some kind of trouble before Jimmy shows up, but I don't know if that's me inserting from something else or if that was from the book. Well, and I think
Natalie: that Jilly also represents this other class of otherly women where it's like, Oh my God, she's just on the road and by herself and sleeping with men and drinking and going to parties and kind of just ending up where the wind takes her.
Natalie: She's very much like Taylor. In one tree Hill season two, that we'll be covering at 10, but where it's like, we, we don't punish these women in our brains, but because we're so closed off to that, like idea of like, so you're literally just like living a nomadic lifestyle based on your like gut intuition and like.
Natalie: Sexual drive and all of it that we're like, Jilly, stop it. Come home. You're partying too much. Um, meet a man that the Owens women's curse can kill, right? Because Sally did it right. Yeah. Sally did everything right. Which that. That scene where she's like pulling up the floorboards is so heartbreaking because she's the one who set out to never fall in love because she knew it was a death sentence and then like the aunts did some trickery and some fuckery to get her laid.
Natalie: Which, you know, best intentions, worst carry out, best intentions,
Julia: maybe cast a spell with somebody who's not as cute and adorable.
Natalie: Well, in when, I mean, I
Julia: get it because you don't want your niece to be with like some Ogre. Right.
Natalie: You want 'em to be able to read. Mm-hmm. And be
Julia: like a good partner kind while they're a good partner.
Julia: See, this is just, see, I would've ended up doing, I would've been, yeah, shit, she's gonna fall in love. Like it should have been obvious to them, to them when they chose him, but,
Natalie: but also the Owens women. I think a lot of Alice Hoffman's books follow the Owens line. The Owens women have to reproduce in order for the line to sustain.
Natalie: And that's also like a huge part of their story. So like, yeah, we kind of like fall in love and then those dudes take off or they're dead. But how else is the line of very powerful witches supposed to go on? Yeah,
Julia: on honestly, it's not. I mean, if, if we had a better societal structure system, it's, it's really not that bad of an idea to be the only parent situation.
Julia: We just need to do better, like childcare and equity for paying women and,
Natalie: and all
Julia: the, because emotionally, you're like developmentally, when you're raising the human, not having the negative impacts of, uh, Um, and, um, an interesting man. It's nice.
Natalie: Yeah. And, and the answer right there to step in, so many of the movies in the 90s, like, carbon copy what I believe my family would do in a situation where it's like, oh, she done got widowed.
Natalie: And now it's like, you're just going to come home and live with us. And then when like Julie says, we're going to grow old together as two bitties with our cats, we're going to live just like the ants. I'm like, it's all I've ever wanted. Every time, every time one of my friends is pissed off at their husbands, I secretly go, you could divorce him.
Natalie: Good move into the woods. We could live our best practical magic, coven lifestyle in the woods, away from them all. And we could just be hags together. And doesn't that sound lovely? To just throw a convention to the sea and just become hags together that like, dig up like murdered guy roses in the yard.
Natalie: It sounds amazing. And I've almost gotten a couple, they're like, I do agree that that would be really fun. I'm like, yeah. I go, you could divorce him. You, you could divorce him. It's just a piece of paper, pieces of paper get lost.
Julia: Well, and it's registered with a government entity. It'd have to get lost there
Natalie: too.
Natalie: You have to believe in the government to care. You have to believe. Everything's fake unless, if you give no value and no belief to something, it's fake. Also true.
Julia: Um, excuse
Natalie: me.
Julia: Forgot again. I apologize. That was gross. I apologize for the yawn. Um, oh my god, what was my question? You said something that was like, Oh, that brings me to another question.
Julia: And I forgot what it is.
Julia: Oh, it's not a question. It's a statement. I really feel like the nineties, what we got a lot of in the nineties, at least from where my vantage point is, is a lot of that fem forward feel in films. Right? So like we had, like, we've covered a league of their own and thumb on Louise on the show. And those have very strong female themes, very strong, powerful women.
Julia: Practical magic also falls in line with that as well. And then, you know, there's other films too that I can't really come to mind right now. And I should have made the list when I was thinking about it earlier today, but it really, like, we don't see that level of like female power that isn't a message being smacked over the head to the audience.
Natalie: And to the point where it's like, I don't know how I want to state this. There was an ease. And a prettiness. I don't want to say prettiness, but you know, like there's a good aesthetic that we appreciate there was a sugar going down with the medicine when it came to what practical magic was trying to say about women and what happens to their power.
Natalie: Yeah, even with them and Louise they made sure that there was enough fucking comedy and that Gina Davis always looked gorgeous and there was sugar with the medicine coming down. Yeah. At this point, I don't know if they've thought we've outgrown the sugar, but they're like, Y'all are raped, and you're harassed on the, in the workforce, and you have to be fighting that all the time, and you cannot cry, and you cannot fall in love, and you cannot have feelings for it, because now you have to be the M.
Natalie: Howard woman. So I
Julia: wonder if the glamorization, it's not glamor, that's the wrong word, but I wonder if the prolific Beautification. Yeah. Of how the 90s presented it is, uh, is there's, this is the backlash to it. Now we just want gritty. Now we just want gritty. But I also like, I struggle with grit. Like, yes, give me the reality and the horrors of what's.
Julia: Our history because hello, um, but at the same time, like certain groupings of people, when you've grown up with the constant reminder in your daily life that you're devalued, I don't want that. I don't, it's not that I don't want it in my entertainment. It's just, I want it done in a way that makes me feel empowered in the end and not defeated
Natalie: in the end.
Natalie: Exactly. And we are living people who are also happy and falling in love and crying at practical magic and whatever. And we are also very aware. Of how systems in place oppress us and who does the oppressing and it's not that we like forget for nine hours out of the day and we're just like oh my goodness it's so great and i'm proud to be an american no it's like we always know but shit someone's got to get the kids to school someone has to find the cat when she's lost someone has to cut down the roses and There's so much joy and beauty to the way, to the feminine side of love, and I think that Practical Magic does a really great job of showing that like, there are women who are constantly told to not be powerful and that they're ostracized for being powerful and not even being powerful, but being powerful in a way that's very public, that as soon as the other women in the town.
Natalie: They're like, yes, we've been waiting for you.
Julia: And it becomes in that very inclusivity, right? Like it's almost as if I choose to believe that after that scenario, and they do show us at the end too, because it's showing the group when people coming to the house and showing the aftermath being very positive.
Julia: And I choose to believe that positive positivity continues, that they were able to change the trajectory of the, of what they were known for and now accepted. And that's what a lot of movies from the 90s, I feel like tend to do like the end of Thelma and Louise is devastating, but you still walked out of that movie theater going fuck.
Julia: Yes. We are awesome. Yeah. And we got this. And
Natalie: holy shit. And I think unfortunately, like The way that we talk to one another about our differences has become so heated that now we can't be pretty about things.
Julia: Right. Like it's, here's like, okay, okay, okay. You think you have it
Natalie: bad?
Julia: And there's this ability to do confirmation bias now.
Julia: Like we can find, rather than finding information to help us expand our thoughts and opinions, we're finding information that confirms our thoughts and opinions. And that's just, that's not, that's not. You, that's critical thinking is the answer because critical thinking teaches us to expand our opinions and learn from things.
Julia: Whereas if I'm going, if I say, well, all, you know, all white people are, I don't know, something horrific. And then I find an article that proves it.
Natalie: I love that you can't ever insult people. And I'm like, Hey ladies, did you get your poison herbs to keep in your cabinet? Jimmy's are everywhere. And this is your friendly reminder.
Natalie: That we can poison them secretly in their tequila or whatever vice they got in
Julia: their divisive choice. Um, I think I was raised by a cop, so, you know, don't ever, don't ever incriminate yourself. Um, but there is this element now where it does feel very much like, well, why won't you listen to me? Listen to me.
Julia: Oh my God. Listen to me. And it's like, if we're all demanding to being listened to, then how can we actually hear what someone's trying to
Natalie: say? And if we're always focusing on how everything has fucked us, where's the love and the joy that gets us through the day? I think that's what the... Fucking pandemic taught us where it's like, Oh, if I literally don't say at least three times a day, at least I have a cat and she's the prettiest cat in the world.
Natalie: And I just go down the spiral where it's like the world is shut down. People are dying. Groceries are hiking, like all of that. Then like, where is the compulsion to go on?
Julia: Right. Right. And I think people don't necessarily fully understand either the line between
Natalie: what's.
Julia: Appropriating and icky and what's just an appreciator.
Julia: I had that experience last night, which I will tell you about offline if you're interested. Of course I'm
Natalie: interested. I love when my people do bad things. Yeah. And that's the thing,
Julia: right? I thrive on it. That's the thing where I'm like, there are, because when you are in a community that is predominantly marginalized, you learn to pick up on things that are like, dog whistle.
Julia: statements and like certain things or like, like coming from a religious background, there are certain terms of phrases that are very common in the type of religion I grew up in. And when I hear those things, I now know you're, and this is terrible. It's like, is it terrible? Or is it survival? Because it's like, you just said a turn of phrase that was, that I grew up hearing in the, in the.
Julia: type of religion I grew up in. And now I know that you're a Christian. And I, now I know what kind of Christian you are. And now I'm very uncomfortable because that kind of Christian is the kind of Christian that made my life miserable for 16 years. Well,
Natalie: and I can tell every time I do tarot publicly who's with it and who's pretending to be with it.
Natalie: So the group doesn't make fun of them. Yeah. And you just know, even if I'm just looking at my cards and just focusing on the person who's reading, I know who's with me and I know who's sitting there going, Natalie is my friend. So it's fine that she's doing this devilry in my home in front of my friends.
Natalie: Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: And there's different survival skills that you kind of adopt and that's what the Owens had to do. And I think that's what Sally's so scared of. Like she's tired of having to do the defense. It's tiring. They both are, actually. That's why Jillian flees. She's like, fuck this shit. I want to go where no
Natalie: one knows us.
Natalie: It's true. It's It's tiring on all fronts. Like it's tiring to constantly have men in my DMS being like, would you like to hear how women have hurt me? And I'm like, no, go tell Joe Rogan. Like I hear he's making a lot of money.
Julia: Yeah. On last week's episode of the show, um, my, my guest and I were talking about like the difference between when women behave in the patriarchy and when the patriarch.
Julia: He exists for women. It's a survival mechanism. So I can't really fault them. I mean, I can, but not to the same degree because they're trying to survive and they have to like this, this is just part of the metamorphosis and there's fear and breaking away from that to be strong. Whereas men just do it because that's all they've ever known.
Julia: And they don't think that there's anything wrong.
Natalie: And there's also this idea that if you started small and if you started scared and whatever. The moment that you become powerful or rich or any of it, we turn our back to you, like whatever sellout it's like, I was just literally trying to collect the paper that everyone else is collecting.
Julia: Yeah, I'd like to be comfortable too guys.
Julia: It happens. I'd like to pay my student loans. And eat dinner every
Natalie: day. It happens all the time with my favorite people to stand up for the cast of Critical Role. Critical Role, in my mind, and you and I have talked about this, where it's like, When small businesses make money and make money to the point where Amazon could like be like, Oh, you're making money.
Natalie: They still get to be a small self owned business because they're still doing it all on their own. Right. So like Critical Role has merch and like Tours and ad space and they're fucking making money. Good for them. They have a cartoon now and like, in my head, I'm like, my friends are making money, thank God it's all we've ever wanted because now I know that my content will stay for free.
Natalie: And I will get to enjoy them to the fullest in all of the ways that I could be enjoying them. Absolutely. But then the reddit, the reddit's like, I'm tired of us pretending that these people are just kind people making these videos out of the kindness of their heart. Why don't they deserve to get paid? I ask you, why do they not deserve to get paid?
Julia: Yeah, because it takes a lot of work. It takes, there's so much that goes into it. And I love people when they say things like, well, I, I shouldn't have to pay you that much because I could do what you do. And it's like, could you then do it? There's a reason why you called me.
Natalie: And everyone who started a D and D stream, Allah, Matt Mercer's way to do it are hoping for that big million dollar check.
Natalie: So don't. Don't fault them for making money. Don't look at her shampoo bottle, Mr. Cop man, and be like, I've never paid this much for shampoo. Yeah. Well, it's going to stop you from going
Julia: bald. Yeah. Which is what every man wants anyway, your
Natalie: male fragility,
Julia: because if I have to sit through one more hair commercial, because a man felt bad about balding, but we still don't have science.
Julia: And medical science behind menopause, you can go fuck yourself or menstruation or menstruation. New York Times is touting how little everybody knows about the clitoris. And I'm just like, I can't take it anymore. Stop reminding us that the world doesn't give a shit about our
Natalie: health. Is my birth control slowly poisoning me, poisoning me or not?
Natalie: Every podcast has a different set of articles,
Julia: right? Right. Okay, final, final thoughts of the night. What's your comfort level? Are you still comfy with this movie? I'm in love with this movie. I feel like the answer was so obvious considering you say it, that you watch it every year.
Natalie: I watch it every year.
Natalie: Um, it literally will be, I know that I will have made it. And you all will know that I have made it when I am literally living in whatever little fucking sea town that is dressed like stalker Channing scaring children but also making women like half ass look at their husbands going is he great no um
Julia: they're on an
Natalie: island no They're on an island.
Natalie: Cool. I can't wait to be on an island. Like, I can't wait to bounce between my seaside cliff in the Mediterranean when I want to be Donna for Mamma Mia in my little Cape Town. Because sometimes I like the idea of like, tropical ocean is great, but like, have you ever been on a Portrapped in a, uh, sweater waiting for your long lost love to come home from the Oregon
Julia: coast is like that.
Julia: It's very cold. It will go in the summer and it'll be 110 where I live and it'll be like 50
Natalie: degrees both. And when I have fucking money, I will have both. And thank you. Practical magic for at, and, uh, the witch of Hortabello for accidentally handing me a religion that I could go. No, I don't want to be a Christian anymore.
Natalie: They don't like me. I'm a lady.
Julia: Yes. Yes. I agree. I'm also still comfy with this movie. Like I said earlier, I feel like you could take this exact film and drop it into 2022. You could release it this Friday and it would not feel aged or dated in any way, shape, or form,
Natalie: including with all the
Julia: women who are in it, correct?
Julia: And it just, it, again, it makes me sad that we still haven't made any progress in terms of reducing violence against women. And with that said. You leave this movie feeling very empowered and that's what that's all I want from a film sometimes
Natalie: Well, and I love a film that will remind us that like sisterhood and the power of feminine love is always the answer.
Natalie: Yes Yes,
Julia: like
Natalie: Loving women is and always will be the answer also it might actually make you come a time or two
Natalie: The truth is out there, the truth. This out, they're telling us that women are stupid. Did you notice stupid? Did you notice they didn't call that cop once to try and solve their problems, ?
Julia: Oh, not at all. Not at all. I mean, you know, Sandra Bullock did try to like convince Julie with them. Yeah. But like, it, it, so then it's, well, is it because of the spell you cast, um, when you were 10?
Julia: Sally, or do you really want to come clean? I think it's because of the spell you cast at 10, Sally. He received it. He was waiting for you. He also
Natalie: wishes for you. Right. I'm not saying don't fall in love and like, don't get dicked down if you want to get dicked down, but like also know where your bread and butter is and it's not with the patriarchy and it's not for men who pretend like they're not in the patriarchy because they've been nice to you three times.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. With that said, tell everybody where they can find you.
Natalie: My name is Nathalie Katona. I'm the host of Tell the Men I've Tolerated before. Want to see more of me on the internet? There's no shortage. Um, you could subscribe right now to Men I've Tolerated pod on Instagram. I mean, I'm on Patreon. I have Mert.
Natalie: Uh, I'm on Etsy at no niche for Nat. If you want to buy some of my, my witchy shit, you know, I'm, I'm everywhere.
Julia: Friends. If you want to keep up with us online, you can find me at the Julia Washington on both TOK. You can find Natalie at Natalie K one, two, four, or men. I've tolerated pod. If you enjoy the show, be sure to like and subscribe rate and review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Still comfy resumes Tuesday, September 5th on YouTube.
Julia: If you want more of this, Join our Patreon for just 5 a month. You get a bonus episode every month, access to our back catalog and entry to our studio audience social hour where we sit and talk about all things pop culture. I'd love to see you there friends. Thanks for tuning in y'all. Until next time.
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