Step Mom | 9
Show Notes:
Host Julia Washington and guest Christina Kay discuss Step Mom the movie starring Susan Sarandon and Julia Roberts that was released on December 25th, 1998.
They get into the shared experience that motherhood can be while discussing elements of this film.
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The Show: Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host: Julia Washington
The Guest: Christina Kay
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Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends, this is pop culture makes me jealous where we discuss pop culture through the lens of race or gender, and sometimes both. And I'm your host? Julia Washington. And on today's show, I am talking about the 1998 family drama. Step-mom with one of our regulars, Christina K is back.
Christina: Hey
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Julia: Step-mom stars, Susan Surandon and Julia Roberts. And as directed by Chris Columbus, the film was released on December 25th, 1998. But before we dive into a summary, let me reintroduce you to our guest. Christina Kay has been on the show many times and throughout all of the seasons, she is a California based hairstylist and photographer, specializing in photos.
Julia: Her philosophy is look good, feel good, can apply to every day. Welcome back to this show, Christina, I, Julia, I'm
Christina: excited to be back per
Julia: use per usual. I feel like it's been a while. We, our relationship pretty much is just in the DMS of Instagram,
Christina: that and reconnecting on the podcast. And sometimes I feel like we'll schedule a couple of them, like back to back, like close together.
Christina: And then I won't talk to you for like three months. Are we still friends? We're still friends.
Julia: Yeah. We're still friends. If I haven't actually, I shouldn't say that as I say, if I haven't deleted you off social, we're still friends, but that's also not entirely true because in 2020, I deleted a ton of people to reduce my network.
Julia: And, um, it wasn't, it was just like, oh, you're not a family member. Or we don't talk on the regular by, um, and people were like, I got text messages from people like tonight months later, that's how long it took people to realize, like, I did it in like April or may of 2020. Cause I was going through a real hard time.
Julia: I mean, everyone was, but because of my job at the time, it was extra hard. Cause I was like informing people about COVID. Um, and so like, I dunno, like September, October, November, People are texting. Can I do something wrong? Like I see we're not connected on, on Facebook anymore. It took you. Okay. So you're just proving my point.
Julia: It took you like six months to realize that we're not connected on Facebook anymore. So you just kind of proved my point.
Christina: Honestly, I feel like I go through an idea that like every couple of months where I'm like, I'm just going to purge a bunch of people just cause I don't talk to them. And then inevitably, every single time I do this within a couple of days, I'll get like a friend request from someone that I've heard.
Christina: I didn't know you were that hard on stocking my life. Why don't you ever like anything? Why don't you ever comment on anything? Why don't we shoot the shit in the DMS?
Julia: Like I'm not here to just have like a fantasy land. Like I'm really trying to ha I'm so much better at having relationships through long distance or through DMS than I am in person.
Julia: So please save me. Yeah. I'm like, if I
Christina: sent you 400 videos and you didn't respond to any of them, I'm going to assume that you didn't like any of the commentary I have about normal, boring life. But if you just reply to me every once in a while, then I a all right. They like it. They probably don't like, as much as I said, but at least they're subscribing to
Julia: something.
Julia: I like all of it. You, you said, and then I always feel bad if I don't see it right away. Cause I'm like, oh, I need to respond. Like, I need her to know that, like I saw it like, and sometimes like my days will get away from me and it'll be like four hours later. I'm like, fuck, I like should've responded sooner.
Julia: So she knows that I'm not. Ignoring her,
Christina: honestly, I don't even pay attention to when I like when people respond or whatever, I just get excited that they did respond to like, oh, cool. Okay.
Julia: So they did whatever they did see it. They did like it, or they did have feelings
Christina: about it.
Julia: So now that everyone knows the inner workings of our social strategy.
Christina: So now that everyone knows we're extreme introverts,
Julia: which is so hard for people to believe about me, because here I am talking to you and we're having a bubbly conversation, but what people don't understand is that's like, literally like, well, you and I record for like an hour, hour and a half. But like when I do quick events and stuff, I'm like, this is, you're just asking me for an hour of my life.
Julia: It's really easy to muster for an hour. And then I'll sleep the rest of the day because it took everything out of me. So like, oh
Christina: exactly. I'm like, I can't wait for this. I love you. But I can't wait for this to be over because when I get to just like lay on the couch and beg out the rest of the day and totally go get Aiden.
Christina: And I'm like, that sounds
Julia: glorious. Okay. Yeah, I did that yesterday. I was like, I'm just going to lean into like, not. Doing anything because we were recording today. So it was like, well, I was going to do admin stuff yesterday for the show. And then I was like, I'm not doing two days. Like that's too much work.
Julia: I have to email like six people. I have to do all these things. I'm not doing that in over two days, I'm going to record an email and everything all in one day. So that way today, yesterday could be amazing.
Christina: Yesterday. We did yard work for way too long. And then last night, my body regretted everything I did the whole day.
Christina: I was like, oh, eight months pregnant, bitch. What do you
Julia: think? Go out and like, pretend like you're not, which is what I did.
Julia: Oh my God. We have to keep going. We have to continue focus. Nobody's here to listen to us. Talk about our lives like that. They might, I mean, they might be.
Julia: All right friends. Here's a quick summary of stepmom just to refresh your memory. Three years after divorcing Jackie, the mother of his children, Luke Harrison decides to take the next step with a significantly younger girlfriend, fashion photographer, Isabel Kelly, but when Kelly meets Harrison's children for the first time, their allegiance to their mother is palpable.
Julia: Isabel tries to win the children over, but fails repeatedly, but the big secret likely fueling every decision Jackie makes is that she is terminally ill, thus adding an additional layer of brief to the entire ordeal. At the time of its release Surandon and Roberts were at the height of their stardom and expectations were high.
Julia: The New York times Renner view titled step mommy, dearest, not at all where writer Janet Maslin had this to say, step-mom has a couple of secret weapons. These two actresses are so galvanized and team up so well that the women's relationship soon upstages, anything having to do with the man, both Ms.
Julia: Roberts and especially miss Surandon, who has the much more believable role go through their motions with unexpected conviction and make the film a lot more watchable than it has any right to be according to the census bureau. In March of 19 98, 19 0.4 million people were divorced representing 9.8% of the population at the.
Julia: And a 2016 article from the Atlantic journalist. Darlene explores the divorce gap in detail, quoting research from Steven Jenkins, a professor at the London school of economics that states, despite the common perception that women make out better than men in divorce proceedings, women who worked before, during or after their marriages see a 20% decline in income when their marriages and men, meanwhile, tend to see their incomes rise more than 30% post divorce.
Julia: And step-mom the movie we see Susan Surandon character living in an idyllic home. She's experiencing what appears to be no financial stress, but before we fully dissect this film, Christina, I want to know why you love this film. So let's talk about it. Why do you love step-mom because you, you pitched this idea to, for us to talk about.
Julia: So give it to me. Okay. Well,
Christina: I can't say why I originally liked this movie because I mean, I was a child when it came out. Um, my mom always had like any time the movie was on like cable television, and she would see it, she would turn it on. So it became like a familiar movie for me, like one of those nostalgic movies.
Christina: Yeah. And I had not watched it in years. And so when I saw it on Netflix, I was like, Ooh, yay. Step-mom's on here, but then I watched it and I'm now in this role where I am somebody's stepmom and I'm about to be somebody's actual mom. And it just like created this wide range of understanding and feelings and emotions.
Christina: And I could relate to some parts and some parts made me mad, you know, like it was just something that it gave me all of the different feels. And so I would say now I think it was just, it's a unique movie in the sense that I liked that it showed both women's point of view because both women had such valid and raw feelings towards the matter.
Christina: And I think that that's really hard to encompass, um, And I think that, especially for the time, like they did so good at encompassing that, um, but I, I can't get over how they both live such
Julia: lavish lifestyle.
Christina: I never noticed that now. I'm like, how do you not work in a Ford, this beautiful home. Right? Like you're working all the time and I'm like, I like our house, but I'm like, it's a
Julia: struggle to have it.
Julia: Yeah. Well, and I think that's part of the perception that this, um, article that study from the guy from London school of economics was trying to prove the point of like, you know, this representation, isn't true. Like she's living in this gorgeous home, but like, if this were the real world, she probably wouldn't be, and culture does this a lot where they have the divorce woman and she makes out like the leader of the divorce.
Julia: She gets all these perks and benefits and all this money and she keeps the house and all these things. And his study is basically saying that's just not accurate. And I appreciate that study because again, it pop culture reinforces some of our opinions and ideas, even if we don't want to acknowledge it and admit it.
Julia: But how many people do you know who think that women always make out in the end? It's like, almost everybody I know, unless they've been in that situation. Um, but to, um, piggyback on liking this movie when I was a kid, I was like, oh man, Julia Roberts, like when I, you know, when I was younger, it was just like, I feel Julia Roberts' pain.
Julia: Like how dare, like Susan, Surandon not be so like, come on, like all this stuff. Right. And then now watching it again. I was like, I probably would be a Susan Surandon that's my baby. And you're trying to. Like I get that fear of like, you're you, I'm the mom, you can't be the cool one. You can't be the fun one because I have to be able to be that too.
Julia: And yeah, like if you're going to play this game, you also need to be a disciplinarian. You can't just be all the fun. You have to be all the things. And I was like, oh my God, I would. So now my kid's grown. So now I'm just like, we have a solid relationship, but when they're as young as 12 and I think the other one's eight, um, I think it was like
Christina: six
Julia: and younger.
Julia: I don't know, but they're, you know, it's still young enough. You can be like swayed and like create a fractured, really, you know, create fractures in the relationship. And that's really scary. Yeah. It's, it's weird. Um,
Christina: I like that. We're talking about this now that I've been a stepmom for three going on four years now.
Christina: Oh my God.
Julia: Has it been that long already? It has. Holy buckets remember, but when you were like that wasn't even a part of your life,
Christina: but yeah, it's a, I think I get into it later on a different question, but yeah, I think it's just like, it's I liked that they, I liked that the movie never focused on like team mom or team stepmom. It was like, This is how the mom is feeling and in all these different situations. And there's times where you're like, I would feel the same way.
Christina: And there's times where you're like, eh, maybe that wasn't, you know, and then there's, this is how the step-mom's feeling in these situations. And I had more times where I'm like, maybe you shouldn't be doing that.
Julia: And
Christina: then there's times where you're like, Ooh, I get, I get that. I get that. You know? And so it's, it's really cool to see, like, it's cool that they did over the time of the movie.
Christina: Like you see them grow, you see them grow as their own form of mom. You see them grow as like co-parenting moms. Like you see their relationships with the kids, like ebb and flow. And it's just, I think it's really cool that they did that when they did that at a time. I would say probably when. Like co-parenting, wasn't a big thing.
Julia: Not the term. No, but I was 12 in 1998, and I had a lot of friends whose parents were divorced and there was a lot of animosity and there was a lot of like, I can do this at my mom's, but I can't do this at my dad's. And there was no, there was absolutely no give and take. It was like, this is my house or doing it my way or the highway.
Julia: I don't give a shit of what's going on at your dad's kind of mentality. And that just doesn't exist anymore. They're also, I feel like not in the same way, like, sorry. I feel like I know where you're going and I'm going to agree. Go ahead. I think
Christina: it's, I agree with that. There's also like, it was like moms tended to get most of the custody or one parent would get most of the custody where I feel like this movie showed that they kind of had somewhat of an even more even balance of time.
Christina: And then. It showed them like even unwillingly, trying to somewhat work together, you know, there's that scene where they're at the play and Susan Surandon is, you know, trying to get the, in on with Julia Roberts about like, who were daughters dating or whatever. It's like, what's this cute moment that they, you know, they're trying to come together to figure out their daughter.
Christina: And that's not something you saw much at that time. That was something that was super rare, because like you said, it was like, oh, well I have rules at mom's house and dad's house. And co-parenting was definitely not a term at that point, but I think that's why I like the movie so much for the timeframe that it came out.
Christina: Is that it really, it almost kind of like pushed the envelope in that sense.
Julia: Yeah. I agree. I agree. We are supported by Maya, my yoga audio, looking for a great read and a great listen. Then you want to read the short but powerful life and death memoir by Meagan Morgan called the end of me. It's about Meagan's three brushes with death.
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Julia: In Roger Ebert's 1998 review. He had this to say, the movie is really about the Surandon character. Harris's absent for much of the second half, until he turns up for a family photo Surandon can create characters of astonishing conviction here. She has to be unreasonable for half the movie and courageous for the rest.
Julia: There's not a rest period where she just gets to be this woman, a fury a few years after the movie's released time magazine had this to say under Chris Columbus direction, they make a pretty but utterly misleading picture in which cheap sentiment is used to supply easy, false resolutions to agonizing issues.
Julia: So I want to talk a little bit about moms slash step moms, especially now that you're on the verge of being both. Cause you mentioned you're being, you're gonna, you are a step-mom and then you're going to be a mom. So how does this movie hit differently from when you first watched it? Oh, I guess we kind of touched on that a little bit already.
Christina: Um, I think, yeah, I think all of the questions are kind of my answer leading blended together. Yeah. Um, I, I think obviously, because, like I said, I was an actual child when it first came out.
Julia: Very different opinion than versus now. Um, but
Christina: I think even as a kid, I felt so like, like strained for both of them.
Christina: Like I could see both of their points of view to the best of my knowledge at the time, because
Julia: you and I, both our, both of our parents are married. Like, yeah. Living as a child of divorce is not our story. But how you do have that experience
Christina: to your brothers somewhat. Yeah. My brothers they're older than me and they, you know, my mom divorced their dad when they were young.
Christina: And so. I know that they had a step-mom and I know that their relationship with her was not good. Like my mom's relationship with hers, you know, not good. And, but it's one of those things where like, but then on the flip side, my dad was their stepdad and that was a good relationship. So it was like, I could see all these different complex things as a kid.
Christina: I didn't really understand them, but
Julia: I think it helped you with their situation now, like going into your relationship with Taylor and being a step-mom to Aiden, do you think that helped you be a better stepmom?
Christina: Definitely. Um, I was gonna say, I, I, and even Taylor knows this. I never wanted to be a stepmom because of my experience growing up, I was like, I don't ever want to be in that position where I am.
Christina: Having to share children with other people, you know, for whatever reason, it just seems like I, my parents had me and it was like, well, they only had to figure it out with each other. And that seemed hard enough. Two people agreeing on something is hard for, you know, three or four people agreeing on something is really hard.
Christina: Um, so it was something that I, like, I pushed off dating Taylor for a year because I was, I was so afraid. I was so trapped in that mindset of like, I. I don't know what my role would be. I don't know how I would be able to give him the kind of like, love that I want to give him without overstepping my boundaries.
Christina: And then on the flip side, like, I don't know how to like, make sure, you know, all the politics of it scared me. And then, I mean, now I can't imagine my life without aid and I'm like, we go get him tonight. And I'm like, is it five 30? Yeah. Like, let's go. But it's, I think it, it takes time like, um, It takes time.
Christina: It takes understanding, and it takes a lot of patients to become a step parent because you have to at the beginning, just be a friend and kind of be hands off. Or at least this is my personal belief. You kind of have to be hands off and just be like the, you know, a supporter to your partner in whatever choices they make and be a friend to the kid.
Christina: But then, like you said earlier, like eventually you have to also be a disciplinary. You have to be the person that's not always fun. You have to be the person that enforces rules or chores or homework or whatever stuff is. And so I. I think it's wonderful that Aiden has a mother who's perfect for him. I can say that she's a great mom and I'm glad that he has that.
Christina: But now that we've been doing this for so long and we have him 50% of the time, like I've grown into this role where I am his mom, when his mom's not around and he doesn't have to call me mom for that to be a thing, you know, he knows that dinner's going to be made or that has lunch will be made for school.
Christina: He knows that I expect chores to be done or the same thing I would do with, you know, like our kid that we're going to have here pretty soon. Like, and so it's something that like, it takes time and no one talks about, and it's. Each little, like step is so gradual and you just kind of fall into it naturally.
Christina: And I think it's something that like there's times where it's really hard and there's times where it's stupid, easy, and you're like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure that parenting is the exact same way.
Julia: Um,
Christina: but I, I think now. I think age also has a huge factor in it. So Anna's older when like her parents get a divorce.
Christina: So
Julia: she, and I think we're like the same age, technically. Like I think she's 12, 13, and I was 12 in the movie, or I was actually in 1990. I was 14.
Christina: So she definitely understands more. She has more memories of her parents together, their family unit together, whereas Ben's younger. And so he's kind of more like, I would say, go with the flow.
Christina: And I would say that I like, in my situation, I looked into the fact that Aiden doesn't really remember his parents ever being together. Um, and Aiden had a stepdad for like two or three years before I even got to the picture. So he was used to having a step parent role. Sure. And so for us, that helped me a lot.
Christina: Um, because Aiden was like, yeah, all right, cool. You going to be my stepmom then like you're with my dad, I have a stepdad at my mom's house. Like, that's just how this works. And so I think younger kids are a little bit more forgiving about that stuff. Where when it's older, you really do have to kind of like test the waters more than those to be a lot
Julia: more careful.
Julia: Those teen years are RO these are rough in general, general. Right? And I think people forget how resilient younger kids are. I think that's a thing that we often forget, but child psychologists are constantly Korean state re-performing re affirming children are resilient. Children are resilient. It's how you as adults behave that can like influence how they approach the situation or whatever.
Julia: Um, and I think like, like for me, it's always just been, why did have one serious boyfriend do serious boyfriends? Um, In the last 17 years, not counting Jackson stags don't count that as a serious boyfriend. Cause he did not want to be with me. Um, um, and you know, neither of them had kids and they both, well, one anyway, the S the most recent one, like he definitely didn't want his own kids and took precautions to ensure that he would never have children.
Julia: And I appreciated that because, um, it was like, I felt less pressure. We could just focus on our relationship and then like building a relationship as the three of us. But on the other side of that point, you know, I think when you're not being honest with the other person, not me, I, wasn't not honest, but when the other, person's not honest, it makes it really hard to bring in it a step or a new relationship, because like, when Susan Surandon.
Julia: Jackie would she bristle about stuff? I was like, Ooh. Yeah. I felt those things before. And it's not that, you know what, what's his name, Luke and the movie wasn't being like honest, he's just being, he's just being good because you know, men aren't supposed to communicate, which I think is bullshit. Um, but like we had a lot of like clear dishonesty happening where it was just like, I don't really give a shit that you have a girlfriend.
Julia: You really like now here's all the things that you just lied about. So we are done here, sir. Like, I just need you to understand that. If I can't trust you, I can't give you my only flesh and blood,
Christina: which is fair. Like I, I feel like, um,
Julia: and it, and, and in the hindsight I feel bad for like all those girls who came in and thought that, well, he lied to them too, but that's not the point.
Julia: But, you know, essentially it was like, it makes me the bad guy. Cause I'm over here being like, no you're being, you're not being honest with me. This is not happening. And then the ripple effect of the person that he's in a relationship with hindsight, I can feel a smidge bad about that. But at the end of the day, it's still ultimately his responsibility to make sure that he's not lying and he's not doing things to harm his relationship with the people that he claims that he wants to have a relationship with.
Christina: I think for myself and it probably, you know, had to do it the way I grew up and what I saw and what I didn't want. And you know what I want. I always tried to take in the feelings of Aiden's mom was like, no matter. And I say that with like a huge grain of salt, like, I don't want anyone coming on here and being like, oh, she's such a nice person.
Christina: No, I'm fucking not. I am, I have, I'm a very emotional person. I'm a really sensitive person. And because of that, I just wanted to make sure that like, no matter what I was ever doing or not doing, I wasn't stepping on his mom's toes or stepping on Aiden's toes, meaning like, I don't want to hurt Aiden's feelings in any way, at any point, based on like what I said or didn't say, or what I did or didn't do.
Christina: Right. And I think that that's something, if you're going to be a star, like a step-parent, you have to consider, like you have to be the adult in this situation. And you have to be able to, I'm not saying put your feelings aside because I still have my really big feelings about things, but you have to be able to segregate your feelings.
Christina: So when your child is present or when the child is with you and stuff, you have to be able to put on that, that emotionally strong front and do what's best for them and say what's best for them at any given time, no matter what your feelings are about the situation, which I don't always see them doing in the movie.
Christina: Yeah. And I'm not saying I'm perfect and that I've never, you know, said the wrong thing or done the wrong thing. I'm just saying like in general, that is always one of my core values being a step-parent is making sure that I'm constantly watching how. Handle situations or how I speak about things or speak about people.
Christina: So that down the road, when he's older, he can look back and go like, shoot, I didn't even know, like Christina had these feelings, you know, it's not for him to worry about.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't. Yeah. I would, you know, when my son was little, we did not include him in any of those things because it's not his responsibility.
Julia: And now that he's a teenager, there's things that happen where I have to say things like you're the kid, it's not your job.
Christina: I was going to ask you, what would you like? How would you
Julia: feel
Christina: like about your son having a step-mom like from, I guess at this point it doesn't really matter. It wouldn't, in my opinion, he's too old for that to really ever be like, uh, something.
Christina: Would hurt your bond, but like, if a little, like, as a little kid, or even as a, you know, in more of his formative years, like if his dad was to be with someone consistently,
Julia: well, we did. How would that make you feel? We did go through a situation where, cause you know, he has a, a younger sibling from his dad, um, and that, but everything about how all of that started, wasn't good.
Julia: You know, he was honest, the, his dad was honest with me about that relationship and what was going on. He was running away from literally us and his family. Um, and yeah, I was hurt and I probably did some things and said some things that I probably shouldn't have, but at the same time, he went a hundred percent left his kid for this woman and moved out of state.
Julia: And then when they got pregnant and had a kid, it was like, I'm sorry. Fuck. You can't even call your son on our scheduled agreed upon times, and you think you can have another meeting. And, you know, there was rumors going and we were early twenties. I was 20, I think it was 23 at the time when this was going on.
Julia: And so ti was probably 26. So he wasn't in his early twenties. His brief was fully formed by then. Um, but there were rumors going around about like the kind of behavior that they were doing. And I wasn't comfortable with my child being around that I did not grow up in a party environment. I did not grow up with, with very solid parents who went to church on Sundays who made us go to Sunday school who sent us to private religious school.
Julia: So the idea of like handing my child over to an actual party house was like, that's not happening. I never grew up in that kind of environment. So I don't think it's safe, you know? And even now, like I'm super chill as a parent. And even now I'm just like, well, no you're, but you're 17 now. So like we have, you know, a little bit more.
Julia: Whatever cause you have sense. Yeah. But it three, if everyone's high and drunk and there's a bonfire in the backyard, I don't know that there's somebody who's going to be with their wits with kids running around. And I don't want to get a phone call in the middle of the night that my child got burnt and hurt.
Julia: So it just was not a good situation. Again, lack of honesty, um, lying by omission, which I have, I'm gray online by omission, but like this felt very intentional and very on purpose. So that way they could get what they wanted. Um, and that hurt. And it was just, I just felt like no one gave a fuck about my emotions and feelings in the scenario.
Julia: My mom was on my side, which was awesome because. We fractured relationship when I came home pregnant at 20, but through all of that, she was one, she was like, you want to see a mama bear? Like, she was just like, fuck up people. It isn't mommy, baby. Um, and it was hard and it was hard. And because of that, every single time after that, if he wanted to like try and bring somebody in, I was just like, you're cute.
Julia: No. Yeah. Because you've never acknowledged that you did all of these terrible, horrible things. You never acknowledged that you abandoned your child. Your, I don't know if he's still running away from that or what, but he was out of state for such a long time. Um, and then, you know, it's just a little and you know, he's better now.
Julia: He's making effort now and he's doing stuff now at the same time. I like to think that it's not too late. Cause you know, just because you, you know, my child's a senior in high school doesn't mean he's. Have a relationship with his dad, but it's in its infancy. Right? And again, it's that whole, like, you're a kid, that's not your responsibility.
Julia: If that's something that your other parent wants to do with you, he needs to make the effort. Like you're a child. It is not the child's responsibility to make a relationship with the parent.
Christina: Big facts say that in bold,
Julia: for real, I'm going to quit. I'm going to snip this out and make it a social thing. And that's the thing that I have to constantly like.
Julia: Not constantly. It's not very often, but whenever something does happen, I have to, you know, it's a reminder I give, um, you know, when, when I'm in my fifties and we're when we're in our fifties and he's in his thirties, different playing game. Cause we're all adults at that point. Yes. You still have the parent child relationship, but it's a little different, but right now your brain still isn't fully formed.
Julia: You've only ever lived in my home. You are still learning how to have relationships and who you are. Like, it is not your responsibility to bear the burden of building relationship with, with your parent. Yeah. That's the lead your parents should take right now. And, and to, uh, his dad is in a relationship now and it seems to be making him a better person.
Julia: And we're all happy about that. Well, that's
Christina: good. Hopefully that stays on the good positive track.
Julia: Yeah. Fingers crossed
Christina: for your son's sake. Yeah.
Julia: Cause you know, it's hard. I always see it with the other side, um, with the, with the, um, the, um, brother and just, you know, what it like, I always, even, even if it felt like I was being, if he thought I was being a bitch to him, I had my reasons, but I never cut his family off from mark.
Julia: My kid, our kid, we had Sunday dinner at his dad's house at grandpa paternal grandpa's house every Sunday for 10 years. Um, and then something happened where I was just like, I can't, you clearly don't give a shit about me or what's going on. So, or respect what I'm doing with raising our kid or having bear born the burden, carry the burden of being a solo parent.
Julia: So we're not doing that anymore. Um, but we still would go on. We still would visit, you know, Christmases holidays. Like we still made an avid key to their house for fuck sake. Like we have a healthy relationship with the paternal side of the family. It was never a cutoff situation. So sometimes I do get a little hurt when I hear negative things were said about me because it was just like, you're the one who was fucking up, not me.
Julia: Like you're the field. I went to a fucking family reunion with my child for your side of the family. And I don't even know if he was there. Yeah. I actually, I think he was there, but like, you know what I mean? It was just like, I'm not the bad guy. Like I'm being a bigger person and now I'm tired of being a bigger person and I'm tired of making sacrifices.
Julia: So you do you boo ominous. I'll send my kid if he wants to go, but I am not showing up.
Christina: Yeah, they do. Yeah. And the kids get to the age where you no longer as a parent have to bear those burdens. You can give them the choice of like, Hey, you want to do this? Go for it.
Julia: I'm never gotten the way like you want to spend you, oh, you called to spend time with your kid.
Julia: Cool. Give me the plans. Where are you going? What are the details? And when he was little, little, you know, those things never, never came to fruition cause he can't plan. And I'm sure he tries bless his heart. Um, but now that my son's a teenager with a cell phone now it's like, okay, well I, you know, you know, you can call me if something, if shit hits the fan and I'll come get you, like you want to go, I'm not going to get in the way plans are ironed out yet, Molly or it's a bunch of 17 year olds, a bunch of 17 year olds.
Julia: Cause you should be like a 41 year old.
Christina: That's hard, Julia.
Julia: I mean, I know, I forget I'm pushing 40 as well, but also I know how to make a plan to tell the other parents, like my mother is in her seventies and she still wants to know that we've made it home safely. Like it's just a common courtesy thing where you're just like, here's like in our family, it's normal for us to be like, I'm on the plane.
Julia: I've landed. Here's where I'm staying. Here's the room number? That's normal in our family. I don't know if it's cause we were raised by cop a cop. I don't know, but like other families I've learned do this too. So to be in a situation where it's like, well, we might go out of town. Like if we got to town this weekend, can I take the kid?
Julia: And we might do this and we might do that. And these are the things that we might do. And it's still a whole lot of might do on the day of that should stupid. You're an adult. You should have a plan. Kids need plans. Kids need to know what's going to happen. Kids with kids don't need to know what's happening, right?
Julia: Like you're a bunch of 16 year olds and you don't have a plan. Cool. You're a bunch of 16 year olds with a 40 year old one in charge. You should have a plan. Sorry. I was on
Christina: my aunt. I'm all about going with the flow, but
Julia: it too. But like
Christina: you got to do that on your, on your earn time, which is why I like. Our setup or we get them for two weeks and then they haven't for two weeks.
Christina: So it's like, you want to on your two weeks, that's you do what you want on our two weeks, we do it. We want, because
Julia: you're in charge of your life. Right. But when you're in charge of somebody else's life and you don't have a plan, that's very chaotic for kids and kids need structure and routine, and they need to know what to expect from you.
Julia: Like they can't just be floating out there and alone in the ether. That's not the point of parenting. Yeah. But so many
Christina: they need to expect what's coming next in order to
Julia: succeed. Yeah. And I recognize and understand that I do not take comfort in chaos. That is not my. Strength. It's not a thing I enjoy. So when I am around people who find comfort in chaos, they just, there's just chaos.
Julia: After chaos, they can't have a plan. They can structure. It actually makes me a really uptight. And I don't like who I become around those types of people. So I try to avoid them. So it's really funny. I procreated with one, well, you know, we always an accident.
Christina: We always go to somebody who's not like ours.
Julia: Yeah. Well, I didn't know that at the time either though. Cause you know, we were 20, we were kids. We don't know what we don't know shit. And this is where I insert my PSA
Christina: that you do not get, this is what I'm going to tell my kids. If you don't get married before 25, you don't procreate before 25. You don't make a big life choice before 25 because your brain's not developed yet.
Christina: Stand by that rule
Julia: wholeheartedly
Christina: I'm 28, almost 29, going to have my first kid. And I'm still like, am I qualified? Am I
Julia: qualified to raise children? You know what, Christina? It literally took me. It was literally in this last year, I was like, oh, I could totally, I'm totally, I got this kids crushed. I can do it.
Julia: No, I'm not crushing it. But like now I get it. Now I understand now I know what I need to do. And now that he's almost done and now I'm going through the whole like, shit, I fucked up that in that I fucked up there too, like, fuck, I'm so sorry, honey. I totally failed you here. The, this is why, you know,
Christina: they always say like, your first kid is like your trial kit.
Christina: I'm like, that's terrible. That's
Julia: something, that's something you pancake theory.
Christina: Something only people
Julia: who had kids before 25 say, okay. Yeah. Cause we, you, cause you don't, you don't know. I mean, I didn't know who I was at 20. I mean, I thought I knew why was it 20 everyone thinks they know? Yeah. Well the things the career I wanted and the things I wanted out of my life haven't really changed much, you know?
Julia: And so there's that, but in terms of. I'm so much better at setting boundaries. I'm so much better. Well, I'm actually went through a brief period recently where I wasn't very good at taking care of myself, but I really got, you know, I really that understanding of how to take care of myself really started setting in at 24.
Julia: Um, and then, you know, just little things from just like, I don't really like that, or just the inner workings and minutiae, the minutia of who I am. I know better now than I did 17 years ago. And I think that I would be, it would be, um, I want to say a much better parent. I would definitely be a completely different parent if I had any more kids, but also not having any more kids.
Julia: Cause I'm not doing that shit alone. Like I hate watching, oh, I hate watching, but it's really hard to watch. And I think I've talked about this before on the show. I can't remember, but it's really hard for me to watch. Deeply romantic birth stories in movies and in television, because that is not my story.
Julia: And that's hard because I would like to know what that feels like, but I I'm 38 this year. So there's a strong chance. I will never know what that feels like. And I it's just hard and it gets harder and harder. The older I get. And I don't know. And I think that's because there's like that clock, that window really is especially, cause I'm tired of having my period.
Julia: Just like take it out, take it out. But then also if you take it out a whole year, amount of a year, so if you have a
Christina: kid, huh? Well, you could go a whole year though, without having a period. If you decide
Julia: to have another kid, I mean, first
Christina: of all, it's a very pop culture of you to start doing it. Like now I know have that nice big age gap that makes no sense.
Christina: And
Julia: I have a committed partner cause I'm not doing that alone again. Like I had a lot of. False promises that shouldn't have been made, but because we were told that you children need a mother and a father for them to grow up healthy, bullshit, they just need a loving person who's stable and committed.
Julia: Um, you know, I was made a lot of promises that. Never happened and I'm not damaged from that, but I definitely hate that. That's my motherhood story. And I hate that. That's my birth story. Like my best friend drove me to the hospital because we thought I might be in labor, but we weren't sure. And I hadn't talked to like baby daddy and like months at that point, like no one should go through that.
Julia: Like, there's a reason why you should be in a loving, committed relationship before you have children. And like that isn't, that is a completely separate thing from having sex and what woopsies happen. So stop getting in the way of us actually being able to produce children in a loving, healthy way.
Julia: Looking at you, Texas.
Christina: We're not going to get down that we need to go. We
Julia: need to move on. Okay, here we go. Well, we don't have time for Texas or Mississippi or any of the others. We don't have time. I promise. Here we go.
Christina: This episode is brought to you by Hughes by Juul. He
Julia: by Juul, custom artwork and original prints, specializing in watercolor, focusing on the human form and different shades of skin.
Julia: If you're looking for that perfect gift for a birthday or have a special memory, you'd like to commemorate visit Hughes by Juul on Instagram, or find the Etsy shop of the same name that's Hughes, H U E S by Jules, J U L S overwhelmingly positive response of Susan Surandon and Julia Roberts working with each other is a delight, especially since both women are billed as executive producers as well.
Julia: There's a few others as well, but they're the biggest names. As I mentioned earlier, the star power. These two brought with them on set at the time was on denial. Julia Roberts earlier, films included sleeping with the enemy hook. The Pelican brief, my best friend's wedding and conspiracy theory. Susan Surandon was in thumb on Louise, the client and little women, the Gina Davis Institute on gender and media reports that only 7% of directors, 13% of writers, and 20% of producers are female.
Julia: The step-mom directors, male, the writers include Gigi Levin. She, I was gonna figure out how to pronounce everyone's name before today. And that didn't happen.
Christina: I feel like that's a common theme on the show.
Julia: Axe, Jesse Nelson, Steen Rogers, Karen lay Hopkins, Lee Hopkins, Karen Lee Hopkins and Ronald Bass. The Gina Davis Institute concludes that female involvement in the creative process is imperative for creating greater gender balance.
Julia: Before the production even begins. When one hops on rotten tomato, one will notice that many male critics found this movie to be rotten. Well, very few female critics felt the same, but a large group of critics did love this film though. The consensus is that it doesn't compare to films like terms of endearment, which only had one female producer credited on IMD B.
Julia: So do you think this film would have captured the essence of being a mother threatened by the thought and prospect of another woman coming in? If it had not been for so many women produce.
Christina: No.
Julia: You want to expand on that? I'm going to leave it at. No,
Christina: no. Um, okay. Well, I just, you can't tell the story the way that they told the story without having multiple females points of view agreed.
Christina: That's that's the bottom line. You can't just like, you wouldn't be able to tell a story about stepdads without multiple men's point of view.
Julia: Like the stepdad is a really funny movie, but it definitely is a dude
Christina: movie. It's just, nobody understands like the levity of motherhood, like women do like mothers do.
Christina: And I think that if they didn't have this many women coming together, To produce this. It wouldn't have, it wouldn't have told the story the way it did. Like I said, one of my favorite things is that there was never like a clear, the they're focused on making the mom look the best or focused on making the step-mom with the best.
Christina: They really are just showing you the raw, like unfortunately messy life details that come in, emotions that come with both roles. And the only way you can really tell that is by getting a bunch of women together, who've probably experienced different versions of that to some degree and creating this story so that both parties can feel like their sides were heard and that both parties can relate and have those strong emotions with the characters.
Christina: Because I just, I just want to talk about the one scene that. The one scene that always gets me in all of the fields is when they go to dinner together. And she says, one of my biggest fears in life is that on Anna's wedding day, she is going to be, you know, she's going to be getting ready. She's going to be so excited.
Christina: And then she's, she's not going to go, oh, I wish my mom was here. And then the stepmom goes. And one of my biggest fears is that on her biggest day of her life, the only thing she's thinking about is I wish my mom was here and what I disagree with the step-mom's point of view here, for sure. Um, I understand both emotions, but as, I guess, as a mom, I would, I think I would feel more.
Christina: I would feel worse if my child didn't think about their mom on that day. And, you know, didn't have that thought where they wish they were there because I think no matter how good of a bond you have with your stepchild, you should always nurture and cater the fact that the person that brought them into this world is the person that they obviously will want for all those big life things.
Christina: And that's something, I guess, that hit me a lot harder this time. Now that I am going to be a mom. And I understood like the more com like Plex, like realities of that. And I pat myself on the back for realizing that before I became a mom, but also it's just something where like, I, I still get. Why she'd be afraid of that because you know, you do pour so much love and energy as if you are this person's mother into this relationship.
Christina: And you want all of those same, I
guess,
Julia: maybe perks I get,
Christina: but you have to realize at the end of the day that it's like it's different when there's just that unearthly connection that no one talks about and now experiencing, you know, like pregnancy and growing a human it's. Like I could, if my kid ever
Julia: didn't think about me and I wasn't
Christina: here on her big life moments, I'd be like, excuse me, ma'am
Julia: now.
Christina: Yeah, but I think that that conversation in general, like they're, you know, they were both being so raw and so real to just come together and talk about the fact that all it came down to is the fact that how much they love their daughter. Yeah. That's what showed in that moment was that both of them just love Anna so much that they were thinking about her future, both of the love, Anna so much that they were thinking about all the things that she was going to be going through and all the things that she might miss because of, you know, the situation she's in.
Christina: And I think that there's no way. Without having that many female producers on set that would have came across as beautifully and as raw as it
Julia: did. Yeah. Because it felt so honest, you know, still doesn't understand what it's like to have children. She just knows what it's like to come in to an already, you know, prefab family and trying to get Anna to be, you know, not on her team, but at least like her cause the whole movie.
Julia: And it has just given her, she's just given her the hardest time and making her life super difficult on purpose. And, or maybe it's not necessarily on purpose, she's just acting out because she doesn't know what's going on. She doesn't understand why her parents can't be together. And she, and no one's.
Julia: Well, Susan saran is, you know, Jackie's trying to talk to our kids through stuff, even though she doesn't want to. She still like in those scenes with our kids being a bigger person, um, about certain situations, but yeah, like that's really scary. And then to, you know, the, the long, the unexpected moments of grief when somebody dies before all the milestones happen, right?
Julia: When someone passes away at like 90 you in theory, think that you've seen, we assume that we've seen everything, our children through everything at that point. So 90 is a nice long life. We hear that a lot nineties, a nice little life there survived by did, uh, but the younger and younger and younger somebody is when they pass away, especially when they have kids and like family members, the, the con, the more and more complicated the grief becomes because there's things that you don't see, there's things that you don't experience.
Julia: And that's, that's a fear. I. Yeah, I don't want to outlive my kids. I want to be old. I want to have seen everything. I want to have ha I want to have a relationship if I have grandchildren with those grandchildren. Um, but if I die at 45, like, well, I have kids young, so maybe I could have, I could maybe have a grandkid at that point, but still, you know, like my friends won't, my friend's kids are like seven, but they died at 45.
Julia: They're like leaving behind a 15 year old.
Christina: But, uh, you're you're right. Like the, the grief of someone dying, what isn't like an, uh, what we deem an appropriately long life age, you know, like, like we have, I, we have that grief coming up of. Taylor's dad not being here for the birth of our child, but he, you know, he was there for Aiden's first seven years of life.
Christina: And then Aiden has that grief of knowing a grandparent that his little sister will not know, you know, and like, I guess kind of the burden of explaining that relationship and that, you know, bond to her and even maybe over time, not remembering all those cherished moments that weren't going to remember for him, you know?
Christina: And it's one of those things where it's like you, they have that element in this movie too. That's just heartbreaking that she is on a clock and. She is dying and they don't know when, and they don't, you know, that I like that they don't really get into that. They just kind of establish that I would be wrecked if I really had to go through that in the movie
Julia: as well.
Julia: Right. But again, I think another female touch to not show it because that's not the point. That's not the point of the movie is to see her point in movies for them to come together in harmony or some version of that. The movie also
Christina: is just to, to face these big realities, to, to think about like these large ideas and, and big emotions and to toy with them and different contemplate them.
Christina: And I think that's what they do so well is that they don't, they, they have definitely put elements of tragedy in there and without ever giving you full, tragic
Julia: or full true tragedy, it's
Christina: just like, This is all looming. They kind of just do the woman thing of like, we're going to insert the anxiety, but we're not going to really get
Julia: right.
Julia: Right. So all of them. Yeah. And then there's, you know, not to go, not on the sad part, but then on the lake, on a ha not a happier note, but part of the complicated relationship they have, there's that scene when Julia Roberts hires that model to like, be her boyfriend for like the moment. And like, for me watching it this time.
Julia: Cause at the time when I was 14, I was like, yeah, that guy's cute. Like, hell yeah. That's totally awesome. But then as an adult, I'm just like, okay, she's 12. And you put a high school, eight year seeing her boyfriends in high school. Like, do you understand how inappropriate,
Julia: but again, you know, I don't know how old Isabelle is supposed to be by Hollywood standards. She's probably 26 in this movie, right? Yeah. But yeah, I thought that was another, like another touch, like trying to highlight how young Julia Roberts character is and how little of an understanding she has when it comes to like the long-term ramifications of like, when you do something like that.
Julia: And then like the lines she tells her to say to him,
Christina: Still don't know what that means.
Julia: I won't explain it to you. Just, you know, whatever is so funny. It's
Christina: yeah. And it's one of those things where like, you, it's a, it's a parenting moment where you're like, now she's seeing how this person's going to parent her kids and Susan Surandon, you know, being the mother is like, what am I leaving my children?
Christina: Right. Like, what's the
Christina: actual reason to be like, look, you need to stand up for, you know, like logical way to go about it versus like, okay, look, it I'm going to go. Cause I feel like she went like more of like the big sister or route versus the like parent route. And I think again, that's where like, Age plays a huge role in things.
Christina: And
Julia: because Susan Sarandon suggestion was like, oh, just ignore him. It'll go away. Which yeah, because eventually, if you don't feel that fire, it's going to die out. Yeah. But when you're 12, that's not the answer you want because you don't have the patience for it because it feels like 10 years of your life.
Julia: Because a
Christina: week when you're 12 is 10 years of your life, I remember middle school going by. So painfully slow. It was just God, if I could, if I could have anything go as slow as that time again, I would be thankful. But like,
Julia: it just was like turtle pace.
Christina: So I can imagine, you know, when you're in, like you're in like that situation, it always feels longer.
Christina: I mean, even as an adult, when we're in situations, we don't really like, it feels longer than it is, but we have the perspective of no. Time is fleeting.
Julia: Yeah. And to your point about Susan surrounded me and like, what am I leaving my child with? What happens when, like she has her first one nightstand or like sex with somebody that she regrets or like loses her Virta or like is engaged to somebody.
Julia: She probably doesn't mean games,
Christina: you know, as the mom, she's thinking of all these bigger things and where as Julia Roberts character, he was just like, I just
Julia: got rid of the problem. Right? Yeah. And she made a bigger problem as a
Christina: kid thinking in the kid mindset of like, nah, it's going to blow over or whatever.
Julia: And it's fine. One of the things that bothered me a little bit was how Julia Roberts' character was so upset that nobody took her into consideration. And it didn't bother me because I felt like she didn't deserve it. It bothered me because. She she's also not taking anybody else into consideration.
Julia: Right? Like I understand Susan Surandon is dealing with, Jackie's dealing with a terminal illness and that just, you can't focus on anything once that's happening. So I give her a little grace there at Harris, Luke, where the fuck are you? Like, why aren't you trying to help? Like the fuck is wrong with you.
Julia: And I get, again, that's not the point is not, you know, to weave him into the story, but that's the only kind of gripe I have where he could be, could have been a little bit more of like a balance between the two of like. Jackie or helping at least Isabelle for sure. Um, come into the dynamic in a way that would be non-threatening.
Julia: I mean, I don't think in the beginning it's ever going to be non-threatening, but you know, to be there for that transitioned into help, like foster that with your kids, like, I feel like you loved his kids with her a
Christina: lot. I was just going to say that is, I think more accurate for the, that I don't even know about that time period, but like, like we talked a little bit at the beginning about co-parenting now I think fathers in general nowadays are a lot more active in their kids' lives.
Christina: And so that's where we get this term of co-parenting. So when you do have this new part. It's kind of your responsibility, whether you're the mom or the dad, like to bring your partner into the loop in a way that helps everybody transition more smoothly and not be putting where I feel like he was like, cool, I got my kids, another other mom and he just bounced out
Julia: and century.
Christina: I'm like, that's kind of how it used to be. It was like, well, if I just get another lady in the house, then we will solve all these problems. And it's no, no, your kids are still going to look to you as their parent. And they're going to look to you for guidance. And one thing you really can't force kids to do is respect some stranger in their house,
Julia: which is so well again, that era of like, I'm sorry, I have an adult here.
Julia: This is an adult. You need to respect an adult and you're just. But that adult is trashed and I don't want to respect them, like, or like, I don't know this adult,
Christina: like giving me any background on this person should just fear now doing things
Julia: like, yeah. That just really
Christina: shows like the, the difference I think, and maybe generation is a better way to say it.
Christina: Like I would say that our generation is doing a better job at like being one that the dads are way more active, way more. At least from my experience, I don't know.
Julia: I've chosen not to hang out with or choose not
Christina: to hang out with people that aren't like, I'll call you out on your shit. If you're not being a good Terri, I don't care if you're the mom or the dad, like you're
Julia: not being a good parent.
Julia: I'm like call you out.
Christina: But I think in general, that's what this generation has done. A better job of doing is having active parent roles. It's not, it's not all laid out for the mom. To do everything. It's right. It's partnerships. And so when that partnership splits and branches off into new partnerships, then it is your job as the leader in that partner role for your child to like bring the other person in, make everybody feel adapted easily more smoothly.
Christina: And
Julia: I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's like, you know, in a sense generationally, we have changed, you know, we have different expectations for our parents. Like their dads who stay at home. There are parents who co-parent like have that. There's a book called Fairplay on, you know, how to break down how to, um, manage a household and parent in a way that feels even that's a big conversation right now.
Julia: That is just not my parents' generation and our infrastructure has not caught up to that, which is the other frustrating part of it too, because you can see that like Isabel's career is taking a hit because she's trying to be an active step parent, um, which is completely bullshit and unfair Jackie's career took a massive hit because she decided to stay home with the kids, which is fine.
Julia: But, you know, if she wanted to move back into the workplace in 1998, it wouldn't have been easy for her to do so. You know, because again, she's created a, uh, family life in dynamic for kids that doesn't allow for her to work. Full-time. Especially in like New York city. Like, I don't know where they live somewhere else in New York, like 45 minutes away or whatever.
Julia: As a generation we have changed, our infrastructure has not changed to support it and it's bullshit and they need to fucking catch up. But I've heard, yeah. I've heard all kinds of things, how it could take like 300 years for things to like level out. I'm just like, I'll be dead. Like to see it now
Christina: sounds promising and.
Julia: I don't even want to get into that.
Julia: Okay, Christina, I just thank you so much for always coming on. When you have time, I know that your life is like big and crazy. And by the time the shows air, the show airs, you will be a mommy.
Christina: That's super weird. I got like seven weeks left. This is, this crunch. Time is real. Now
Julia: there's KBB things around the house.
Julia: No, I love you. Please remind everybody where they can keep up with you if they want to.
Christina: I am at Christina underscore K underscore creations. We can argue about the underscores later six. Set me for
Julia: who I am. We love you. No matter what, I'll link friends, I'll link to her social handles. So if you wanted to keep up with her, you can easily find it instead of trying to type in all of those underscores on Instagram.
Christina: And I'm just so difficult.
Julia: Life's hard, man, friend, it's been nice talking to you. It's been nice talking to you.
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