The Family Stone | 16
Show Notes:
The Family Stone released in theaters on December 16, 2005 and stars Dermot Mulroney, Sarah Jessica Parker, Claire Danes, Diane Keaton, and Craig T. Nelson just to name a few. Christina Kay and Mario Mello join host Julia Washington to discuss this holiday film. And they get into family dynamics, what the movie gets right and whether or not this movie has aged well.
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The Show - Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
The Host - Julia Washington
The Guests - Christina Kay, Mario Mello
Transcript:
Julia: Hey friends. Welcome to Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous. I'm your host, Julia. And on today's show, we are exploring the family dynamics of the holiday movie. The family stone. We have not one but two guests today. Christina Kay, from Christina K creations and Mario Melo for movies with Mr. Mario
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The family stone released in theaters on December 16th, 2005 and stars. Don't Dermot Mulroney, Sarah Jessica Parker, Claire Danes, Diane Keaton, and Craig T Nelson, just to name a few, but before we dive in, let's say hello to our guests, Christina, Mario, welcome back to the show.
Mario: I have.
Julia: Hi to kick us off.
Let's do a quick summary of the family stone and friends. This description is from the internet. I literally have no idea where I pulled it from. So Lord help us. Everett stone wants to bring his girlfriend Meredith Morton to meet his Bohemian Connecticut family at Christmas straight-laced Meredith feeling she needs backup, asks her sister Julie to come along, hoping to win the approval of her boyfriends, parents, civil and Kelly, and the rest of the family.
Instead, Meredith succeeds only in highlighting her uptight personality and making Everett doubt his intention. On December 16th, 2005, that New York times writer Manohla Dargis I apologize if I butchered that I'm not quite sure how to pronounce it. Had this to say in her review, this tribe of ravenous cannibals bears, its excellent teeth at anyone who doesn't accommodate the family's pertaining self-regard its most recent target is Meredith Morton.
An executive played by Sarah Jessica Parker who probably hopes to marry into the clan little realizing that this will leave no stone unturned and all aimed straight at her. And a 2005 article from Avi club writer. Scott Tobias wrote this whether by design or miscasting Sarah, Jessica Parker shoulders.
Most of the ill will as an uptight urban business woman whose posture suggests a body temperature cold enough to crack a thermometer first scene barking into a cell phone, which has replaced mustache twirling. As the cinematic shorthand of evil Parker gets thrown to the wolves. When her boyfriend Dermot Mulroney brings her home for Christmas Morrone spiteful sister, Rachel McAdams has already had a chance to damn Parker on first impression, but much of the family follows in line, especially mother Diane Keaton, who wants the best for her golden.
Others such as father Craig T Nelson and brother, Luke Wilson are a little more tolerant of Parker's abrasive qualities, but Keaton possesses the family diamond and she refuses to give it to Mulroney when he asks for it as an engagement ring, after a particularly horrific dinner Parker calls on her sibling, Claire Danes for emergency reinforcement, but Danes is appealing.
Presence introduces another set of problems. So it can be really very difficult for a new partner to come into the family that is this close as the stones clearly are, but what's worse is that they don't seem to care like that. It's hard, you know? So the movie is pretty well split in terms of likability.
People either love it or hate it. So let's start there. Which camp are you in and why? And Christina, since this is a movie you enjoy, we're going to start with you.
Christina: Okay. Obviously I love this movie. I think it's one of my favorite. Like, I call it my grown-up Christmas movies, because like the Grinch is my favorite Christmas movie, but that's
Julia: like an, obviously we don't have time to dive down that rabbit hole going.
We don't,
Christina: I don't have time for that right now. I'm just saying like my favorite, like adult ensemble, Christmas movie is this one. And I think it's because it just feels the most like home to me, honestly, this is how my family communicates, you know, right away. If they don't like somebody. And is that uncomfortable?
Yes, it kind of is. However, when they like you, you really know, and that's exciting. And it just like in the movie, like, they are easy to, not easy to win over, but once you win them over with some, you know, Goodwill and you prove that you're not just like one way, then I dunno. I think it resembles my family.
And so I'm comfortable with it. And I like.
Julia: You ain't done it. I'm sure that,
Christina: yeah. I'm sure people that don't like those kinds of families would be like, this sounds awful. I don't want to go there. Like, I don't blame you, but you know, we all like
Julia: they are. I mean, they are pretty awful to Meredith,
Christina: like they are awful the Meredith, but I also think that like, look at the times too, we might not say, or act that way now anymore, but in the like movie space that was so freaking normal to be like,
Julia: I disagree with you that we don't act and behave that way anymore.
And we'll get to that. But now, but now we need to know where Mario stands.
Mario: Well, so this is actually one of my, probably my favorite Christmas movies too. And I, I love Christina. I love your grown-up Christmas movie. I agree with that. Uh, cause Alpha's my personal, like all-time favorite Christmas movie.
That's another story. But you know, this, this movie always makes the rounds. Um, I'll watch it even when it's not Christmas. So I was very, yeah, I just,
Julia: yeah,
Mario: I dunno. I feel like it definitely, uh, touches on that Christmas atmosphere and like that family feel. And I think it is very relatable because you do have those parents, or you do have the, you know, the crazy siblings that you have to win over.
Like, even if you're just bringing a friend over to like
Julia: 100% Rachel McAdams in this scenario in case any of you are wondering,
Mario: and I mean, my family Christmas is more like that at all, but I've been to houses where with my friend and I've seen how they act and I'm like, oh, I could totally relate to that person.
Or I could see somebody relating stoppers. And so I think that's why I like it so much because it is very relatable. Um, and it's, and it's not even necessarily about Christmas too. I mean, yes, it's Christmas time and it's all that, but it's like, it's this whole family like dealing with different issues.
Family kind of either helps you or hurts you kind of thing too. So that's why I think I like it. Um, even when it's not Christmas time. Cause it's like you have that whole family dynamic and everyone has a crazy family. So it's like
Christina: emotionally dynamic movie. Exactly.
Mario: Yes. So that's why I love this movie a lot.
And I guess when it came on there, there's I think I saw at least three times, and then I have, so I'll watch it. Like I said, it's all mine. It's all my repeat during the holidays. And then, um, I'll watch it randomly to when I want to. Wow. That's a good movie. Yeah,
Julia: I watch it. Every Christmas it's in my rotation.
I think I'm the only person. And I'll talk about this in a little bit in my family who enjoyed it. And other than you two, I think, I think you can do the only people I know who actually like it because you know what people tell me they've been in that situation. They've been in the situation where they like walk into the family and the family's just like, fuck this bitch.
And like, doesn't give her a chance. And then the little sister I'm pointing at myself, it's like, oh, I've met her. And she sacks, you know, kind of stuffs. So I feel like, I feel like, you know, it's, it's
Christina: like you think Meredith gets in her own way just a little bit. Like, I don't agree with the way they treated her, but I mean, she kind of gets in her own way.
She's she is uptight to the point where you, some of those people need to be like shaken up down a little, like
Julia: I think they make her uptight, I think, yes, she's uptight in the beginning and we see that she's uptight, but I think that. Amplify her uptightness like the family makes her on guard. Like when he's like, when they pull up and he's like, they're all watching us right now from the window.
And she's like, buck, like that's, that's intimidating. It is.
Christina: That is super intimidating. I don't know. I feel like I've been on both the hamburger in person and I'm like, all right, for you, Dawn is now it's a combat today. Let's go. I'm going in. I'm going to win you over well.
Julia: Or like, just keep setting her up.
Like when Luke Wilson's like, here's a mug of coffee after she decided to go stay at the hotel at the end. And he's like, you better bring that up because being bringing that back because that's Civil's favorite mug, like that's the fucked up shit. Like you're setting her up. Yeah. Because when she's making the coffee and Sybil comes out and she's like, this is not to be.
She's totally like cleaning the pot to make more coffee. Like there's no awareness that somebody else could like be involved in, slightly changed the dynamic it's their way or the highway. Yeah. Which is like 100%. My family, I have to remind my siblings every time, very difficult to, to like, be a dating person for, with our family.
Like, this is not an easy family to be like, Hey guys, I mean, you can do that, but it's going to take us like seven or eight times to be like, okay, you're cool.
Christina: It takes trial and error. Trial
Julia: and
Christina: error.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Christina: So wait, did you like the movie or do you just watch it? I I'm different.
Julia: I'm on the fence.
I like it, but then I don't, you know, you know what it is, you know, how you watch things. Cause they're comforting. I think that's what it is for.
Christina: Yeah. So what's comforting about it. If you don't like it all the
Julia: way I know what's going to happen. Okay. The predictability, I know what's gonna happen.
Christina: Like, I feel like every Christmas movie has like an element of predictability and that's why we get so nostalgic about them. That's why we cling on to them.
And the fact that you only get to, not that you only get to watch them once a year, but like, you're really only watching them once a year. So you add that extra layer of like nostalgia on like, oh, but it's our once a year tradition to watch this movie and then you watch the movie again and then you're like, really like it.
Julia: Like, whereas me, I'm just like, I am obsessed with, I watched the sound of music every Sunday, before Christmas, every year, but I, I, but I it's like a tradition, so I can't break from that, but I like listen to the soundtrack all year long to fill my need for.
Christina: So you would hate to find out that it took me like 17 years to watch that movie.
And I watched
Julia: it by folders. You know what? I'm going to let that slide. I'm going to let that slide. We can still be friends, but I'm going to let that slide. And it's this we're having, we're going to have this conversation on our day when we can have really have this conversation. Cause I don't know. I don't know how I feel about this.
That's fair. A lot of people get mad at me for it. Literally,
Christina: it's a lot of singing.
Julia: It's amusement. Cool.
Christina: I don't like musicals.
It
Julia: makes me uncomfortable. Alright. Well now I know that, uh, Mario and I will be having conversations without you about musical,
Christina: the sound of music,
Julia: all musicals. He was okay. But that's like, okay, listen, we don't know what's going to totally go on a tangent about musicals just now we got that kind of time.
Christina: I was so sorry.
Julia: It's okay. I still love you. There is a big family secret Sibel and Kelly are sharing. Two of the four kids have figured it out by like 20 minutes into the movie. What the secret is Susanna. The oldest daughter figures it out because her mother's napping in the middle of the day. Oh, yeah.
If you haven't seen this movie,
Christina: it came out in 2005
Julia: and I can't help you if you haven't seen it yet. It's too late teen years.
Christina: It's had a sweet 16 this year,
Julia: a sweet 16 honorarium.
Okay. Kelly tells Ben while they're getting high at the high school, but they are still protecting this piece of information that will alter their family life. So I can't help, but wonder, just see what I did there. Could it be argued that Civil's cancer coming back and being terminal is part of the reason why she is so adamantly against Everett and Meredith, because remember he's like, I want grandma's ring.
I'm going to propose to her. And she's just like off just ranting to everyone, but Everett about it. And then they finally have like a fallout.
Mario: I think it does definitely has to do with that. I mean, I'm not, I'm not a mom, so I can't say, but I mean, from, from a observation and just seeing other moms, you know, I mean, that's their dream, like to be able to love their daughter-in-law or there's some online, you know, welcome them in and family.
And I think her knowing that that's going to be there her last Christmas pretty much. And he brought home this girl that she does not like, like, she's like, I got to get rid of him. Cause I don't have enough time because he's got to find somebody else kind of thing. Like, and she's like, I don't want my last dying breath knowing that, that who he stuck with knowing they're not going to work out,
you
Julia: know?
Christina: Yeah. I don't want my mom's finger on her shriveled up hand. Let's
Julia: say, cause it's different. When you give it to your son. I have a lot of family jewelry and I'm like, I don't know if I
Christina: know it's tradition. You're the one with like an older son. So I want to know before I get into what I think, I think both of you are going to don't like my opinion, but
Julia: it's fine.
Still want to
Christina: know, like, what you think coming from someone who might, you know, one day have to do something
Julia: like this. Well, I don't know if he's ever going to ask for any of my grandmother's jewelry to propose with. And even if he did, I would be very like we're pessimistic when it comes to relationships in the family.
And I don't know why my parents are married 50 years. Both sets of grandparents were married for over 50 years. So like, why can't I just assume that my children, child or myself could be married long-term right. But like, I'm traumatized because pop culture does this. They do this. The girl has the grandmother's ring of the husband.
They break up and they get a divorce. And the girl doesn't want to give the ring back because that's her engagement ring. But the ring has been in the fucking family for like a hundred years. So give the ring back. But they're so mad, but the family wants the ring back. Like this is a thing that we see reoccurring in pop culture all the time.
So now I don't want to give my grandmother's story to your, uh, spouse. I want, I'll give it to your granddaughter because she's blind. It's terrible. Isn't it? I feel like that makes me a horrible person, but like, I don't want to go through the fighting of like, that's my grandmother's ring. That means more to me than it does to you.
You just were proposed to it. Like that literally is a love piece between my grandparents. Yeah,
Christina: I think, I feel like everybody can kind of get on board with that. Like a family heirloom should stay in the family. I don't understand why people hold those hostage.
Julia: Those are where it doesn't make sense to me.
Hollywood stopped doing that shit. Like some of them, I need to know, listen,
Christina: I'm making the, like, why are people so awful? Like we're making people out to be awful. And then people in society reflect that. Cause it's like, well, people movies do that. So it must be okay. Like, I'm sorry, but people are dumb.
They're going to follow what happens in movies
Julia: sometimes. Like, okay. Tell us your, your turn though.
Christina: Okay. So I like, I get that. She seems like she really doesn't like Meredith, but I think every time I watch it, I see Sibyl with like a little bit fresher eyes. And every time I see the fact that like, she's literally like ill and I don't think it's Meredith that she doesn't like, I don't think she likes them as a match.
And she's more trying to convey the message. Meredith is not Everett's person. It's not that she doesn't like Meredith. It's not that she doesn't like her as a person, but she's trying to get the point across that. Like he's not himself with her and she's clearly not herself with him. Oh, that's a really good perspective.
I say that because, like I said, it's a lot, like my family, my mom can be very brash at first. She seems very intense. But when you realize, like she's always coming from a place of love and you over time, you start to see like the patterns you go. No, she's not, it might be the wrong approach, but she's coming from a place of going.
Like, I know you so well, I, I know your heart so well, and this person probably has a wonderful heart as well, but you guys, his hearts are not, you're not meshing. And when they mesh, I will give you this ring. The highest honors, please take it. Please marry this person. I know you guys are going to be perfect.
My grandmother would want this, and I think she comes at it in that sense. Does she go about it correctly? No, but I think that the amount of times I've watched it and the way that she opens up to narrative throughout the movie and the way that she's so open with her sister, which we'll get to later, like right away, she knows in her mom, heart instinct wise, like, Nope, that's a better match or this is a better fit, you know?
And I think that that's something that like only, you know, only a parent can know are only so many super close to you in a way that like, no one else knows you.
Julia: Yeah. I totally get that. I have some friends where I'm just like, I love this couple together. And then I have some friends where I'm like, I like you and I like you.
I like you together. Yeah,
Christina: exactly. So I don't know. I think it's not necessarily like. Like an attack on Meredith. I think it's more attack on their partnership. Like they don't fit. It's not Meredith. They're just like Everett. You're not even you like right now. Like yeah. You're yeah. You're acting like, and so is she like, she's clearly not comfortable to be yourself either.
Like that's showing
Julia: too one of them calls them out. Right. Is it his brother or is it
Christina: as
Julia: I think it's been, yeah, he totally calls them out. You're not acting like yourself, like who is this guy? And they even make fun of him about wearing a tie all the time. Like take off your tie. Why are you still wearing your tie?
That kind of staff and very observant Christina? Sometimes
Christina: I get deep
Mario: and without the show is over. I know right there. Thanks for
Julia: coming to her Ted talk. So good.
Christina: We only went on three Christmas tangents,
Julia: but you're not wrong. You want your, you want your children or, and, or loved ones to be with somebody that is going to bring the best out of them.
And some just because it looks like it fits on paper doesn't mean it's going to work. Oh, Christina.
Christina: I said that. I said, uh, I actually said this for a later question, but Meredith and Everett, technically, probably two. Fit all the qualifications that they re like wrote down on paper, like these, this is my picture perfect person.
And they both compared notes. And they were like, yes, this works. And then they got it back. But then you realize like you stoic and creepy together, like drop
Julia: this,
this isn't working. This is weird in an attempt for support. Meredith has her sister, Julie, come to the family, get together, ever has never met Julie and lectures. His family about the treatment of Meredith. Cause at this point they've done several things to her. Like we mentioned the Luke Wilson, giving her the mug and just all kinds of stuff.
Uh, Meredith doesn't want to stay in Everett's room with him. So it puts Amy out, which I thought that was. We'll get into that in a second. He's adamant ever is adamant about proposing to Meredith while getting off the bus. Her bus arrives, Julie falls and only slightly gets injured back at the family stone.
Everyone is fretting over her, tending to her wounds. This subsets Meredith further later at dinner, Julie seems natural in conversation with the rest of the family and when the discussion moves to Thad and Patrick's adoption Meredith poses, the question of nature versus nurture. And the family banter around sexuality becomes light and jokes are made.
And then Ben states that he's here, he's queer get used to it. And civil response with I gave up on all hope on Ben years ago and Meredith pauses and make my opinion makes it really fucking awkward and asks you didn't really hope for great gay children. Did you. And which then causes Meredith to clarify her question, which comes out in my opinion, muddled and homophobic sounding, leaving fat and Patrick feeling dejected, sibling Kelly upset further with Meredith and Meredith feeling attacked and unsupported by her boyfriend.
So I just want to give some stats because this is 2005 that this film takes place. According to pew in 1997, Hawaii was the first state to offer same-sex couples domestic partnership. And over the next 18 years, the country slowly battled laws, banning same-sex marriage with the Supreme court finally ruling in 2015 that the state bans on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.
In 2004, Massachusetts became the first state to allow same sex marriage. And by 2005, when this film aired, California, New York, New Mexico and Oregon are added to the list. So that conversation around the family stone dinner table was likely one that was mirrored across the country, right? Like I'm assuming.
Families across the country. We're having this conversation because these things were happening through the law system. And in 2021, to me, this film, this, this, this scene, and this film still feels very relevant today. So aside from the very colorful Macron civils desk, which is so 2005, could this film be released today without any changes?
Mario: I know I, without any changes, I think there'd be changes a little bit
Julia: extended on
Mario: that for me. So yeah. So the scene, I feel the scene is very 2005, just because I think, I think that was to a lot of people, a newer thing, like it was being more accepted. Um, because I, I came from a very conservative family, so like it was church and all that stuff.
So it was like, I kind of grew. People around me had that mentality, you know, you know, same-sex is, you know, isn't godly isn't then, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so it's like, I grew up with that in my head. I never agreed with it, but so it's like, I could see, I'm trying to think of how to put this. It was, I can see where Americans come from.
She did not put that. She did not put that question out very well. It's not a question. I don't think it was a question that needed to be stated out loud for everyone to see, because like, for me, like I would have questions like, and not just cause it's like, I'm, you know, a bigot or anything. It was just cause I was curious yeah.
And so like, I feel like if she, I think she was just being curious and she didn't, I don't think she intended it to come out the way she did it. And I think she even kind of touches on. Um, w I felt like that should have been a more private conversation with either like a parent, the parent, like Sibyl, or like Ben in, um, that or the Patrick Patrick, and that, um, not an openly conversation in front of a whole family.
And I think that that's kind of where she went wrong and yeah, because there are still, cause I mean, there's still stuff like today that I don't know where I'll hear phrases or stuff that I'm like, I don't know what that means. And I, I w I want to know, because it's like, I don't want to come across, you know, or do anybody or offend anybody.
So it's like, I have friends that are gay and stuff, so it's like, I'll talk to them privately and be like, Hey, I just have a quick question. And they know me, they know me, they know my heart, that, that, so it's like, they they'll, they'll be honest. They'll be like, oh, this means that, or this is what that means, or this is how I would react or how I would say it.
I see why this dinner seems is very cringe and I still get cringe over to cause my girl don't, this is not a question, not the it's so
Julia: uncomfortable. I have to fast forward every time, because I just feel like in terms of the film, I feel like it's a technique used to highlight just how awkward Meredith is with the family.
Yes. But I also think like, did we have to, did we have to use that? Well, I guess we did because it's 2005, like what other thing could they have used to demonstrate just how uncomfortable she was in a bigger scale as a family situation?
Mario: So for, I think if it was to change, if it was to be updated, it would definitely involve like a.
Like trans man or trans women like that. I feel like that's very new, like recently. So I feel like that would be like the conversation they would be having and not necessarily the marriage itself cause the marriage, I mean, 10 years later, 2015, it was legalized. Um, so I feel like that's, at least in my opinion, that's a little more common, whereas, you know, um, the trans rose is now becoming a more dominant, um,
Julia: and we're learning more and people are, we're learning more about.
Mario: Yeah, exactly. So I feel like if that movie was released today, we'd probably touch on probably more stuff like that. I guess like, um, this, this man, this, this woman, you know, all that, all those terminologies. Yeah. So I guess that's my opinion on Def defense.
Julia: Maybe for me, it feels like it's still relevant today because it's, we, because we live
because there are conversations sometimes that come up and I'm just like, okay, did you forget this is 2021? I don't know if you got the memo, but I felt liberated the new year. I'm sure you did too, but that's not
Christina: how we
Julia: talk anymore. Um, but I do think, no, I do think we actually had a similar conversation all those years ago around a family table.
Not my immediate family, but a different family that I'm a part of. And the mom flat out said, cause there's a quick comment in there about how like, oh, they think they've isolated a gene. And so they think there's a gene. Um, and the mom in the scenario, in my, in the real life says like, you know, we, this is literally what she is, she's a boomer.
So bear with me, the older women get, we know that, you know, the pregnancies, they're not as quality because you get older and your eggs get older and just sort of that road, right? Like, so the older you are, the lesser, the child could be not lesser quality, but like there were studies for awhile that, you know, you had higher risk of like all these things, if you're like 40 having kids.
Right. So she's trying to equate homosexuality to that concept. I shit, you not, I think this conversation happened in 2000. Everyone at the table minus me. Cause I'm not getting involved because just kind of walk your family out. This conversation, attacked her for that, but it's 2006. We're still learning.
We're still having these conversations about like how to have these conversations in the language. But like, so I, I guess I feel like it's a conversation that, you know, I see this in the movie and then it happened in her life for me. So I just kind of feel like, you know, I'm not the only one. I can't be the only one, but I agree with you on it might have more of a, there might be more trans representation if they were to make this movie today.
What are your thoughts, Christina?
Christina: Okay. Um, I think it's still, I think the movie can hold up after all these years easily because I, I mean, like you said, where we live for sure. But in general, I don't think just because we have passed a lot of laws, it just because we have a lot of open-minded people now, I don't think.
Negates all of the conversations that have still been had from that time that, you know, that scene was onscreen. And I think that scene was extremely uncomfortable on purpose because it just goes to show you that like, that's how people not only were feeling at that time, but anytime there's a new concept introduced, there's going to be that little resistant pushback.
There's going to be those inappropriate asking questions where even if they're not meant to be mean, they do hurt somebody, but they're also coming from a place of just ignorance and a place of not understanding in a place of not knowing. And it might not be ill will, you know, it's not intentionally meant to be rude.
It's just how many times do you get stuck in a political conversation or get stuck in. Now a COVID conversation and someone has a very different opinion than you or someone has just like, says something that's a little off and you, you know, now you're questioning it and you don't, it didn't mean to spiral in that way, but that's what life is.
Sometimes. Sometimes life is messy questions and uncomfortable situations where you stick your foot in your mouth, cause you were ignorant or put people in a position of feeling bad about themselves because you didn't take the time to learn ahead of time or whatever. And I don't think that it's some, I think Mario is correct.
I think if we were to make this movie now, There would probably be, you know, like maybe an interracial or a trans or both, you know, couple at the table. And it'd be questions about that. Or, you know, or maybe it would be like the granddaughter was that, and that would bring up questions. Um, but I think overall the, the idea of.
Entering, not a new concept, but a concept that's not wildly accepted overall. And then we're trying to get it more accepted. That's what we're going to come across as conversations at the dinner table with people's
Julia: families
Christina: and not your family, they are uncomfortable because that's how we move change.
That's how we get to 2021. That's how we're going to get to 250. That's how we're going to get to these places where people are more accepted is if you have these uncomfortable, inappropriate, maybe sounding conversations. And I don't think that they shall go this way, but I think it's realistic that they are because it's like you're dealing with multiple generations.
You're dealing with multiple viewpoints and a lot of different people's emotions. So they are going to get charged and it is going to get heated. And sometimes it is going to be that quickly. And I think that that holds up over time. And I don't think that. That is just, uh, only two. I don't, I think there's still a lot of people, especially in the middle of the country having this conversation or wishing, wishing they could have this conversation with their family still.
Yeah. So I think that it's, it is something that we could update, but it's also something, unfortunately that some people haven't even gotten to yet. And that makes me sad. So I think that it does hold up. That's a long answer to say, yes, I, Hey, I'm here for everything that you just said because you're not
Julia: wrong.
I just rewatched guest who's coming to dinner, which came out in 1967. So friends, if you haven't seen the family stone again, it's been 16 years. We don't really know how to help you. Fad and Patrick are an interracial couple they're gay or adopting a child. So Julie opens the scene. Do you care about the race of the child, which is a completely separate conversation because adoptions in 2005 and there's like a whole thing that we could do, we could talk about when it comes to like adoptions and race.
God, that kind of time. No. And, and Meredith is like, Julie, how could you ask such a question? And, but it's a legitimate question and an honest question, because especially at that time, that was a huge conversation about like, you know, there's all these children that need to be adopted and what's going on and you know, how are you going to, you know, foster the culture that they might be from.
And now we're seeing all these grown children who were of, um, minority ethnicity. Adopted by white families going on this sort of pilgrimage, trying to figure out what is their cultural identity, because they were raised by white people. Um, so I think that is, I know a lot of people doing that right now, actually.
Um, so I think that having them open up the scene with that, and then leading it into the conversation of like, you think it's like nature versus nurture. Like you would want that partner because for me as a parent, I'm like, I don't give a shit what you are just don't be a sociopath or a serial killer.
Like here's the standard. Don't, don't embarrass the family name and don't end up in jail. Like everything else is a bonus.
Christina: Yeah. Any other, no, I agree with that. I remember my mom asked me so many times she has my brothers too. She had always asked us if we are gay, growing up. That was just a normal, like, if we hadn't dated someone in a while, she'd be like, are you gay?
No. Are we having questions about sexuality that we need to? Yeah, it was just like, Nope, mom, still like guys just. Dating right now. Have
Julia: you seen the option
Christina: check in for us?
Julia: So, you know, I mean, you could, you never know, like some people, I have a friend who found out who realized very late in life and you know, I'm 37, so very late for us as 27.
But then when we talked about the background they came from and what the family dynamic was like, and all these things, it was like, it makes sense that it took you this long to realize that this is what your truth is like, this is who you are. And then other people I meet who are like, I've known I've been gay since I was three.
Just like how, how, how, how lucky you are to have that self-awareness cause not everyone's allowed space for that.
Christina: Yeah, definitely.
Julia: So after this event, Meredith runs off, Ben follows her, who I Ben's my favorite in the whole movie, but we can talk about that in a minute. They end up at a bar on Christmas day.
Everett, Julie walked through the city, looking for the two of them to no avail and they clearly bonded. Um, and this bond clearly does not exist between Meredith and Everett, which makes it even more like, oh shit. And that's her sister's boyfriend. Like this is hard. Anyway, the attempts to reconcile after dinner are really never achieved.
So the next morning. It wakes up in Ben's bed. You know, there's all this commotion because you know, all these things have happened. So here it let's catch us up. We're going to catch everybody up, even though we didn't really do that. Great of a job of filling everybody in on what happened in the movie.
Um, civil finally, hands over the mother's ring to Everett, Everett forces, Julie, to try on the ring. Cause you know, we fall in love with Everett and Julie as they're falling in love, but Julie's clearly resisting it. Everett forces her to try on the ring. It gets stuck. Kelly finds Meredith in Ben's room cause Ben's in the shower.
And Meredith has no idea what happened because she got so drunk the night before, um, Everett and Meredith meet at the bottom of the stairs as Julie's running into the bathrooms. So like Meredith and Julie run into the bathroom together. And then in the bathroom, Meredith implies that Julie and that she and Ben Meredith implies to Julie that she in bed.
And then Julie shows Meredith the ring and Meredith is like, that's it. And then like, there's just all this commotion. And then everyone's gathered around to open presents and then everyone opens this like incredibly thoughtful gift from Meredith, thus revealing. She's not actually that heinous of a person that they all made her out to be.
And so Roger Ebert rounded out his review with this, the family stone sorts out its characters. Admirably depends on typecasting to help establish its characters more quickly and finds a winding path between happy and sad secrets to that moment when we realized that the family stone will always think back of this fateful Christmas with a smile and a tear.
So I want to talk about family relationships and the dynamics of the film parents case. Everett Meredith Julie Everett, Ben Meredith, all the things. Cause I thought it was a little weird that Meredith made a big stink about not sleeping in Everett's room with him. I don't know if you guys felt that way, but it was just like, oh my God girl.
Christina: Yeah. The fact that she displaces the sister, the sister that already doesn't like her, that's where I'm saying, like, she kind of gets in her own way, like the whole family, because that's the whole point is like from the start, the whole family tries to welcome her in by saying like, Hey, you guys share room
Julia: like you, which would never happen in my family.
I don't know about yours. That show would never happen in my family.
My sister and her former husband were living together and my mom's still made them sleep in different rooms.
They weren't married yet, but when they're married they can share a room.
Christina: That was a rule. Such a weird rule. Sorry, Christie. I cut you off. No, it's okay. I just, I think that, um, kind of forgot where I was going with that. I don't know what I was saying anymore. Cut you off. That's okay. Where were we at?
Julia: Family dynamics, sibling, parent
Christina: relationships getting in her own way. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I think that, like I had already said earlier, Meredith and Everett together are stoked and creepy and everyone can read their vibe. It's not a good time. However, Ben has this playful like sense about him that pushes Meredith's buttons in a fun way and not in a, like where she wants to resist it way, which makes sense where they start to like balance each other out.
And I can see why. I can see why they fit and I can see how they would make a good match. And then Julian Everett has the, that energy that like Sibel was wanting for her son. Like she saw it right away. Clearly Julian Everett saw it right away. Oh,
Julia: it's like, freaking, what is it? You know, the things that attract to each other it's magnetic,
Mario: opposites attract.
Julia: Yeah. Well that's
Christina: where Ben and Meredith are their opposites attract. Like they're the complete, like they round each other out because everyone makes fun of Ben for being like aloof, being this, being that, and then Meredith the complete opposite. So of course they're going to be gravitated towards each other because they're going to try to fix quote, fix each other.
Ben's going to try to make her looser and Merritt is going to try to be like, let's button you up and they're going to balance each other out. Cause they're both going to be resistant of that. Wherever it gave into Meredith swishes and stead, where he finds what Julia. They actually shared interests and shared like just conversation and energy and they like matched together.
Julia: So were you rooting for Ben and or Julie and Everett when? Oh yeah. Sparks
Christina: flew. Yeah. I was like, well, cause I was rooting for Ben and Meredith for like before we even got to Julie, I was like, clearly there it is. Should it be whatever it should be, this Ben guy. And then like Julie gets here and I'm like, of course,
Julia: because we can't leave, we can't leave Everett high and dry or we
Christina: can't, we gotta, we gotta make this a weird family dynamic.
So I love even more. Like I love. I love the family dynamic, just purely the family dynamic with each other. I love the way that the parents are really in touch with their kids, to the point where that they tell them, you know, tho those harsh realities. And they also show them, I mean,
Julia: Ben and Ben and Kelly freaking smoke pot together in the high end, that would never happen in my house.
My parents would never, they would never,
Christina: but would you do that with your kid? No, I don't.
Julia: I'm not, I'm not a pot smoker and I don't even know if he decides to be a pot smoker. That's his life. That's his decision. I just, you know, wait until you're 21 when you're old enough, you know,
Christina: Of course, but I mean like, and
Mario: then
Christina: we go to the movies
Julia: together. Yeah, we do. We watch TV.
Christina: Yeah. I just think it's nice that like, you can see that like the siblings still have that, like from childhood, that sibling rivalry or playfulness, and they brought it into adulthood and same with like the parents, like Suzanne is still went to go cuddle her mom, you know, not, yeah.
I mean, she did get that sense, but you can tell that she just like, that wasn't odd for them either to be cuddled up. It wasn't weird for Ben to hug, um, or Kelly to hug all of his kids or even the spouses when they come in, he's just, you know, he's ready to love his family. And I think that that's so like, It's so clear that there's so much love in that family and that they were able to keep that over time, that the fact that they all get together every
Julia: Christmas and they're going to be effortlessly like, well, yeah.
And they're going to last beyond the parents dying, right? Like the family isn't going to die because the parents died.
Christina: Yeah. Which I think is really like magical.
Julia: Yeah. What about you, Maria? What was your, uh, the favorite, like, do you have a favorite sibling duo, a family dynamic situation.
Mario: So I love Ben and Meredith and you know, what's funny is like, for me, I always thought Meredith, uh, the playful Meredith at, towards the end is who she was before.
Remember she works in a business world. So at that time, women had to prove themselves into the job she was in. I feel like we're probably mostly men. She had to G she had to be, you know, that, that hardcore woman that couldn't play around because she. You know, struggle and work to get where she was and a world for men.
And I think that's how she found, obviously that's how she found Everett and ever was, you know,
Julia: just so handsome. So handsome girl. Oh, so cute. He's
Mario: so cute. Um, medium Ben, um, I think with kind of reminded her of who she was before and stuff. Um, so I think that was it wasn't he was able to like, you know, take her out of her shell again and kind of thing.
So I love them. I love, um, Um, I love Amy. I mean, it's a lot of, we don't
Julia: get to talk about her a lot and I'm sorry that we didn't say
Mario: she needs to thank Meredith because Meredith is the one that brought her future husband
Julia: in our story. Oh my
Mario: gosh. She's the one that invited him to Christmas.
Julia: Drunkenly. She drunkenly invited
Brad, Brad Stevens,
Mario: a phone, Brad Stevenson. You popped
Julia: Amy's charity.
Mario: And I love him. He's from parks and rec way back when
Christina: it's like, and this phase two, like when, or Meredith's phase two, when he shows up and she just has that like flashback of remembering the one part of her drunk, where she invited Brad and she's just like, oh my God,
Julia: I'm going to buy you a drink, barky, barky.
Did she say barkeeper bartender? I don't remember bartender this rounds on me for everybody. And you're like, girl is a loop.
Christina: There's like five people in there. Cause it's Christmas Eve. Yeah. I
Julia: don't
Mario: think had to go to have around.
Julia: He knows how to save your life. Everybody needs one of those in their family.
It look, he joined
Christina: to the family. No problem. Literal chaos happening. And he just came in with a snow globe and was like, Hey, I'm here to see me on a whim, even though I haven't
Julia: talked to her. That's because he's never stopped loving her. That's why.
Mario: Yeah. I love that. I loved her little thing. Um, and then sat in Patrick are great too.
I think it was cool because I didn't think they played. A lot of movies do like the typical Flamboyan gay too, which, I mean, guess they're out there, but that's not everybody friends that are not are very, you would never know the irrigate because they're very, they're still masculine or
Julia: don't fall into that stereotype.
Mario: Exactly. So it was nice to see, like, you know, that these were a different type of gay, like it shows
Julia: the breadth,
Christina: especially for that time. Yeah. The fact that that's what they chose to go with at that time. You're right. Like, I didn't even realize that, but yeah, it seems so normal probably because I've seen the movie so many times and I mean, I was raised in a household that that was just, it was okay.
Like you don't get to judge that, like there's gay people and that's what they do. And that's
Julia: that, that's
Christina: just, that's just that. So like for me, it just seemed like such a normal couple, but I did like that. They were not, like you said, they weren't the stereotype
Julia: at that time. Yes. I love that point.
Because it's so easy, you know, and I talk about this a lot with the black community. Like I get frustrated sometimes with the, with the way that the pop culture sort of pigeon holds the black community into very specific type of representation. And that's not everybody, that's not the whole story and it's irritating.
And so to have Patrick be this strong, handsome black man, because that man is beautiful. Agreed, and he's not your he's not will or whatever the sidekicks name was from will and grace, because I feel like that's a lot, Jack. Thank you. Cause I feel like that's a lot of what we see are guys like we'll inject.
Are we did back then anyway, you guys are very smart. Thank you.
You
Christina: bring depth to this conversation.
Julia: I'm just like, these are the things that I think I wonder if other people think them turns out. No, but better.
Christina: You have good thoughts. Everybody's got good thoughts. That's what the whole point is. You bring them all together. Yeah.
Julia: Cause we need to, we need to have, we need to create the space to be able to have these conversations and show that it's okay to be a ignorant, some areas and be like, acknowledge.
Like this is where we were and this is where we're going. Um, do you, this isn't an in the thing, but last sort of Roundup, do you have a favorite scene?
Mario: Ooh, that's hard. Cause there's so many good ones. Yes, no, but my favorites. When they're, uh, when she hands out the presence and through the whole, the whole, like the commotion, the fight scene.
Um, cause I love it when she was like, isn't there anyone that loves me? Like, he's like, I'm not marrying you. I didn't ask you or that, oh, I didn't sleep with you. No, you didn't sleep with me either. Like
the day before she was like trying to make the strata for the family as a nice thing. And it's like, after all that it gets knocked over and then Amy's slips in it and ladies are all like, and then the boys are running around. Like it's such a great scene. Cause it's like, that is totally Christmas. Like you always have that fighting and you have the kids running around and arguing and stuff like,
Christina: okay, hold on.
That egg is like all over her at the end, when it comes to like everything comes to a halt. You think that was supposed to be an unintended pun, like a. For the way that she was acting, I didn't even really got that Walmart target. Well, Mario, when you were talking, that's when I thought of it. So it's not like I'm smart.
I just had, like, I was like, she had egg on her and I'm like,
Julia: oh, that's a really good question. I don't know.
Christina: You know how sometimes they do those little hidden gems, like someone would catch it.
Julia: Yeah. I don't know. I love the scene. This makes me a terrible, a weird person. You know, when she hands out the gift and the everyone opens it, it's Diane Keaton pregnant with Amy.
Christina: I
Julia: love a thoughtful present.
Christina: That's tears. Every time you
Julia: see it, every time I cry and she's like, that's me and you kid. And it gets me every time.
Christina: Yep. That line gets me every time. Like
Mario: 'cause, you'd like, we know she's not coming back. It's the most beautiful keepsake ever. And like, I just like, basically comes like wins the whole family over and it makes me, and she had a thought of that before she's even met them too. So it's like, like Meredith was actually really, really thoughtful cause she really, really did want to be a part of the family and stuff like that.
And as we discussed psych, she just, I think she just kind of got bottled up and overwhelmed and,
Julia: and I love the F the affection. Right? Like she found it on Everett's desks. So the admiration that the kids have for their parents, like that just also reaffirms that family dynamic of them being close in that they love each other.
Like there isn't, we don't see any way. We don't see any of them. We only see what they share with us, but there, he clearly leg. I mean, I don't know about you guys. I don't have a picture of my mom on her desk. My dad's actually, I don't have any personal items on my desk because California, California is an at-will state.
So you technically don't have to give two weeks and they don't technically have to give you two weeks. So like, if anything happens, I want to be able to balance and not have to worry.
Mario: I'm putting your stuff in a box and carry out. I don't want to do any
Julia: of that shit if they're like, oh, cause you know, all these books tell you to fire people at the end of the day.
So it doesn't create havoc for your workspace. So I'm just like, I don't want to pack shit up. I just want to be like cool. I'm out. Or like if something happens when I don't know, anyway, I just took a turn. Well up. Same, sorry guys.
Christina: I think my favorite scene is when Ben and Kelly get back from smoking pot together and Ben realizes.
And he goes any hugs Sibel and like, they have that like moment where she's just like, she's joking, she's in mom mode and she's like, you, Jeff, I'm getting high with daddy. And then like, she realizes that hug means something else. And I think it was after it was like right after Susanna had found out. And I just, the fact that they were like, back to back like that, the fact that we got like, so we found out so much with so little words.
I don't know. It gets me every time. Cause I think that's like the core of what family is, is like, it's just, it's energies, it's energies, reading each other without needing to say all of those words all the time. And it, because sometimes it's easier to just kind of feel it and hug it out and be like, okay, now we're going to go back to pretending, like,
Julia: all I did was smoke pot with him and it's a really great way to move the story along with that.
Telling us what's going on, you're showing us what's going on. And I think a lot of times what makes a film timeless is when the people who come together to tell the story, figure that out, you know, when you have people showing what's going on and you can infer for yourself. So that way you're a part of the emotions that are trying to be like displayed on screen.
I think that's such a great technique. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not a fan of the soap box speeches. Give me, show it to me. Like don't lecture me, you know? Yeah.
Christina: It also is like, it's on something you want to find out in like a harsh way that tends to like, kind of ruin the mood of the movie where when they, you find out in subtle ways over where you kind of piece it together with the family, it doesn't feel like a big like wrecking ball.
I guess it feels more like, okay, like, yeah, we're just okay. I was right. My stupid gut was right. Kind of. Succumb to it rather than like be knocked out by it. And I think that that was really nice because that's what keeps that, like, it sounds creepy, but it's what keeps the Christmas magic still alive in the movie is that they don't hit you with a wrecking ball of tragedy.
They hit you with like sometimes sad things are gonna happen around the holidays. And sometimes we just have to kind of like accept it. And sometimes we have to just, you know, embrace what we've got and keep going and we can still, and I like that they didn't show. Again, they didn't explain anything when they did the, like the next year, they just, they just, just showed her together and they showed that someone was missing and there was still that family bond and there was still that magic.
And I think that's what makes this movie so timeless is they did such a good job of telling you a story without telling you a story. And then everything that they actually told you was still a different and good
Julia: story. Yeah.
Mario: I totally agree with the, I was going to say that too was the Indian, like we pick up a year later and everyone comes back still.
So it shows that family dynamic. And even though, you know, civils gun that. There's still that love in that family and that there, they still got each other and now Meredith is part of the family. And then Julie's now part of the family and Brad. Um, and then at the same time, it's like, oh Brad, we love bread.
But, um, that there are, they are going to be okay. Like, and I think that they could have left on a sad note too, but I think it's also a heartwarming ending too, because it's like, it shows that yeah. Uh, it's going to be okay.
Julia: And you see that in Patrick with their baby, which makes you feel good. And yeah.
Mario: Yeah. So, yeah, I agree. It's still it's timeless. I love it. It's very Christmasy movie.
Julia: I love Christmas. Me too. I said is November 1st, too early to decorate for Christmas. And my child said, yeah, um, excuse me, whose family are you in? I agree. I appreciate both of your support in this, that November 1st is not too early to
Christina: decorate for Christmas.
That's I try to get tailored to let me decorate on that day, but he says I got to wait till after
Julia: Thanksgiving. Listen, it's such an American thing.
Mario: Calendar. It shows like the first three weeks of November is Christmas. The week as Thanksgiving is just Thanksgiving and then rest of the month is all Christmas.
Yeah.
Christina: I support that. I feel like Thanksgiving, you do deserve a whole week for Thanksgiving, but like we need pre Christmas before Thanksgiving because otherwise it's too short of time. I, I have enough time to get the movies in on enough time to get the festivities in. I don't have time to get the actual chores that need to get done.
So I would much rather have pre-Christmas. Yes, enjoy my, like week-long. Of just eating and pretending like Christmas doesn't exist. And then come back to this hardcore, like, all right, we're here. We've already. Pre-games we're ready.
Julia: I support you. Right? Word that we
Christina: all have a good setup
Julia: this year, guys.
Good job. Nice, nice work, everyone. Good team. So I saw this movie in the theaters in 2005. When my family went to visit my sister for Christmas in Seattle, my son was barely one at the time. So my dad stayed back to hang out with the boy. And I think I'm the only one in my family who liked this movie. And I've been watching it every Christmas since Christina, Mario.
Thank you so much for stopping by and discussing this film with me. It's like you guys you're rock. Um, can you remind everyone where they can find you if they want to keep up with you online? Christina, why don't you go for it?
Christina: Uh, it is Christina underscore. K that's K a Y not just letter underscore creations.
I got to make that like little caveat. Yeah.
Julia: If you'll remember from our main girls episode, everyone, we had a very deep conversation about that,
Mario, where can we find you?
Mario: Uh, you can find me at, at movies with Mr. Mario on Instagram.
Julia: Awesome friends. Don't forget to subscribe and write a review of the show, not listening to us on a platform that lets you do a review. Totally fine. The sheriffs with your friends on Instagram tag us. So we can say hi as always, you can keep up with us between episodes on Instagram at pop culture makes me jealous, and we hope that you have a wonderful holiday season.
And if you celebrate Christmas happy Christmas, and if you celebrate other holidays that happen in December, share, share with us because we want to learn about what your holiday celebrations are until next time. Friends. Thanks for tuning in y'all.
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