Water for Elephants
Show Notes:
In this episode, host, Julia Washington, and her guest Samantha Crockett (Enthusiastic Neighbor) discuss Water for Elephants. The book was released in 2006 and the film released in 2011.
The pair get into what they enjoyed about the book and how the movie falls short.
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Transcript:
Julia: Welcome to
Julia: Jelly Pop's book club, a podcast born out of the book club from pop culture makes me jealous. Our book club reads one book to screen adaptation a month and compares it to its screen counterpart. We discuss it in our live book club. And on this show, we do the very same thing. I'm your host, Julia Washington, and today we're going to get into the 2006 novel, Water for Elephants.
Julia: Okay, let's get into the summary of the book, a little bit about the author, and the summary of the movie. The author of this book is Sarah Groon. Groon was born and raised in Vancouver, British Columbia, then lived in London, Ontario, and then attended Carleton University in Ottawa, and earned a degree in English Literature.
Julia: She moved to the States in 1999. So, as you know, we usually pull the summary from Google, but Google's summary wasn't great, so I got this from Goodreads instead. When Jacob Jankowski, recently orphaned and suddenly adrift, jumps onto a passenger train, he enters a world of freaks, drifters, and misfits, a second rate circus struggling to survive during the Great Depression.
Julia: Making one night stands in town after endless town, a veterinary student who almost earned his degree, Jacob is put in charge of caring for the circus menagerie. It is there that he meets Marlena, the beautiful young star of the equestrian act who is married to August, the charismatic but twisted animal trainer.
Julia: He also meets Rosie, an elephant who seems untrainable until he discovers a way to reach her. And now here's the movie summary. This truly is from Google. Jacob Jankowski, a veterinary student, is close to graduating when a terrible tragedy forces him to leave school. With nowhere else to go, he hops on a passing train and finds it belongs to a traveling circus.
Julia: Jacob takes a job as an animal caretaker and meets Marlena, a beautiful circus performer. Their shared compassion for a special elephant named Rosie leads to love, but August, Marlena's cruel husband, stands in their way. So same, but different. My guest this week is Samantha Crockett. She is my friend, even though we haven't met in real life.
Julia: We talk regularly through social media, just like everybody else in the world. I'm really excited to bring this conversation to all of you as it was a really good one. Samantha loves this book. It was her suggestion that we read it. And I'm so glad that she did because I don't know if I would have read this book or watched this movie.
Julia: Otherwise,
Samantha: at
Julia: the time of its release, the New York Times had this to say, at its finest, Water for Elephants resembles stealth hits like The Giant's House by Elizabeth McCracken or The Lovely Bones by Alice Siebold. Books that combine outrageously whimsical premises with crowd pleasing romanticism. But Gruen's prose is merely serviceable and she hurtles through cataclysmic events, overstuffing her whiplash narrative with drama.
Julia: There's an animal stampede, two murders, and countless fights. She also asserts a grand passion between Jacob and Marlena that's never convincingly demonstrated. End quote. So let's just like dive into the book and what you loved about it because I
Samantha: don't before we do that, I'm going to say, Julia, this is becoming a pattern our time together.
Samantha: We're going to relabel it as Samantha and Julia talk about how terrible New York Times reviews are, because I don't know which podcast will come out first. But we also recorded another one where we spent. unreasonable amount of time talking about it. And I feel the exact same way about this review.
Julia: Okay.
Julia: So first, first of all, let me just say, I know that this is your favorite book.
Samantha: It is definitely one of my favorites. It is top five, top five.
Julia: Okay. Perfect. Love, love, love, love. And so when I was personally, when I was reading it, I was like, okay, what's going to hook me. What's going to hook me. And then when the hook happened, I was like, all right, I'm in.
Julia: And then when I read this review, I was like, I don't know if this woman and I read the same book.
Samantha: Correct. I feel the same way. So to be honest, I don't even know if the author
Julia: of this review is a woman.
Samantha: I just, I don't know. Whoever read it, whoever wrote this. Yeah. I got nothing now to be fair. I have never read the giant's house or the lovely bones.
Samantha: So as, as far as I know, maybe perhaps they are. Better written, um, like as a writing, like, uh, an actual, like, like style wise, like style wise. Right. Except my thing is that I am a sucker for non linear storytelling. Right. It is. I will read. In fact, the, uh, some of the other books in my top five include, um, the night circuit.
Samantha: I'm not like a circus person. It just happens. But that what I love about them is that they aren't. Linear narratives. It's not even like when I was a kid, like I liked books that were like back and forth letters or it was time jumping. Like, I just, I love a non linear narrative because you never know quite what is yeah, I think with,
Julia: because this book came out in 2005 or 2006, right?
Julia: So in pop culture, we weren't really seeing a lot of. This back and forth like we had flashbacks type of but the way that The author uses the, the, you know, the nonlinear at first I was like, girl, what are you doing? What are you trying? And then again, when it clicked, it was like, Oh, I got it. This is in my, I saw it as a parallel to his time.
Julia: In 1931. So what he's going through now in modern day, which I assumed to be
Samantha: 2005.
Julia: Six. Yeah. Yeah. Is a parallel for what was happening in 1931. So once that clicked, I, cause I'm not going to lie Samantha, I did kind of skim the old man parts in the beginning. So I was just like, what are you trying to
Samantha: tell us?
Samantha: Oh, those are my favorite parts of the book. Those are my, I don't even care. I think one of the weird things about it is, is that to be honest, I. When I re read it, I skimmed the circus parts of the Like, to me, the old man parts of the book are the, like, parts that I deeply enjoy because one of the things that I love about it is that even outside of the, like, parallels between what's happening, I love seeing the, the Like, to me, it makes me think about, like, how we do treat people, and how we do, like, all of those pieces, but also, I just really love the difference in the narrative prose, in that you see the, like, when he is telling the story in the circus, he doesn't question details, he doesn't, like, he is telling it from his This is what I am telling it in 1931, versus in the old man section, he thinks about it, he's like, Am I 93 or 90?
Samantha: Or like, like the things where it's like, as I get older, I think about some of those details that I don't quite remember. And there's actually a really good quote in the... Old man part of the book that the nurse, Rosemary, says, and I'm going to pull it up because I just really love it. Sometimes when you get older, and I'm not talking about you, I'm talking generally, because everyone ages differently, things you think on and wish on start to seem real.
Samantha: And then you believe them, and before you know it, they're a part of your history. And if someone challenges you on them and says they're not true, why then you get offended? Because you don't remember the first part. All you know is that you've been called a liar. So even if you're right about the technical details, can you understand why Mr.
Samantha: McGinty might be upset? And this is something that the nurse says to Jacob about the fact that like. The other old guy got so mad that he said he was a liar about like, and I think for me, one of the things I love about this is the recognition that. Everyone sees the world a different way that like to that guy, he remembers carrying water for elephant.
Samantha: Like he, like for, and, and also just the ways in which like huge, he, it, because it's this first person narrative of this older man, there are places where you realize he's lost time. You don't know what was happening. And so like, to me, I just really appreciated it. And also. Is the book perfect? No, like, there are a lot of things where I read in it and I'm just like, Hmm, I don't know, I'm just not sure.
Samantha: Like, this is not the way that I would have read this or like, maybe a sensitivity reader would have been a useful addition to this. But on, right, like, and I think that for me, is it an outrageously whimsical book? Like, I don't think it is like this was 1931. It is completely reasonable that this dude ran away with.
Samantha: If you
Julia: think of that era, you think of people like jumping train cars and like,
Samantha: yeah, isn't the lovely bones, the one where she's dead and she's like watching what's happening from above or whatever. I don't even know. I feel like Stanley
Julia: Tucci was in the movie and I remember thinking, I'm not going to watch that because I feel like someone got murdered
Samantha: and it's a, that is a whimsical preference or a whimsical premise, but I just don't feel like.
Samantha: An old man talking about his life in the 30s in a, like, maybe if they were trying to pretend like, oh, in 1985, he jumped a train, like, no, of course not, but like, I feel like it really is that pretty. And she did a lot of, from what I read. She did a lot of circus research. This book is not whimsical in anything other than just like, Did this happen?
Samantha: No.
Julia: I don't know which version you read or own, but so I, you know, I recently bought it for our conversation so we could do this episode. My edition is... Like a recent one and it literally says on the cover over a hundred thousand copies sold or a hundred million copies sold or something like a ridiculous amount of books sold and in it There are photos of old Circuses.
Julia: Okay. I was like, I don't know if that's true for every copy or every edition, but I like
Samantha: like just the one I just reread has it. Okay, I can't tell you I have owned Multiple copies over time. I'm sure I have it in digital. I have it in paperback. I have it like, so I couldn't tell you it's in all of them.
Samantha: Yeah, but, but still
Julia: even just including the photos and having them credited in the way that they are. You're like, okay, girl, you like you did your homework on this book. Like you didn't just make shit up to write a book about a boy who went to the circus.
Samantha: No.
Julia: Yeah. I think for me, the old man parts were hard because I worked in a senior care facility for like nine months.
Julia: I didn't last very long. And so like that whole, like my kids forgot to show up and like the whole dismissiveness of the residents. And like, I witnessed that so often, like on the daily that I was just like, Hmm, this is real.
Samantha: Too real. Right. But I think that that is actually a really good. Like, sentiment to, like, back up the fact that the review doesn't make any sense because there's a difference between feeling like it was not necessarily well written or not being inter and, and feeling like, ooh.
Samantha: This hits too close to home for me. I can't, I, I don't wanna read it because I, yeah. I already understand this. Yeah. Because for me, I think it's the opposite. Like this, like I said, it was, you know, 2006, from 2006 or 10, or whenever I read it, what number? Yeah. I don't know if I had ever really considered a lot of these pieces.
Samantha: Mm-hmm. around. Senior care and aging and all of the things and so I think for me, I like an unreliable narrator, like, I like how as he goes through the book, like, he keeps trying to, like, he keeps trying real hard to convince us that he is 100 percent fine and that it's just all day and all the things and as I read it, I'm just like, sir, I think we need to, I think we need to be a little bit more like, like in inside ourselves.
Samantha: But I also would like to say that one of my, um, other, um, I don't think that this contributes in any way to how I like the book or what I like about it or any of those things, but it, but in the context of like this podcast and the work you do and stuff, I really appreciate, I am not, one of the things I don't like about the book, and we'll talk about this in the, well, I'm going to mention it in a, Yeah.
Samantha: But like, I almost feel like the book at times is too graphic. Like there's things that I just like, I had to skim some
Julia: stuff just for my own benefit.
Samantha: This isn't, it's not ideal. Like maybe, and the reason I say this is because I almost appreciate it in that oftentimes you have men who are writing female main characters.
Samantha: Characters and you can tell like we've talked about, you know, like, not we, but like, this is this is a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of really dig. The idea that this woman wrote this mail. Like, the 1st person character and that so much of what. Is written as it is like him and this like coming of age and like the like how he just wants to sleep and all the things because like that is kind of what it feels like guys are, you know, like, not to say that that is, but like we're so used to one dimensional, poorly written women characters by men that I kind of think that there is like a, a weirdly nice symmetry about the fact that this is maybe like.
Samantha: a slightly one dimensional, poorly written male character written by a woman. And so, which isn't to say that it is. I personally think that the book is really grounded in reality, and really, like, there's so many places and pieces where I'm just like, yeah, I could totally see, like, not that it makes All the sense in the world and that I would expect like this story to actually exist somewhere out there, but that like in the like narrative that she has created, I fully understand how the pieces go together.
Samantha: There's no point of this book where I'm like, well, that seems like a huge leap, right?
Julia: When she talks about guy men getting red lighted or whatever, I was like, yeah, I've read enough books about people jumping cars to know that that's. I'm not going to question that or just the way that people line up for food or when they would go into different from city to city and there's signs in the windows that are things like we'll take anything what do you got like buy our shit like do something to help because it's 1931 so we're in like peak depression era and people are desperate and and and then a circus comes to town and then you're like How do you get people to spend money when they have no money to come to a circus?
Julia: So my grandparents were born in the early 20th century. Like they were adults during the depression era. Like they had kids in their 40s. So like the stories that they shared with me about that period of their life felt familiar. Like, like this book felt familiar to like their recounting of what America was like in that time.
Julia: So like Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with you. And there's like, it's not, you don't have to suspend disbelief here in a lot of ways. No. 'cause it's, it's very much like, yeah, this could have been real ,
Samantha: like Yeah, there probably was. And I, there probably was
Julia: a kid who lost trains and went from circuit with the circus.
Samantha: Absolutely. You know? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I think even the relationships to me feel very gra like in a, like one of the, the things that you could, like the idea that there's all of this. Like a whiplash drama with narrative and all of these things and like even she says like the review says she is also a source of grand passion between Jacob and Marlena.
Samantha: That's never convincingly demonstrated. I disagree with that. I think it is very clear how they get from A to B and that I think it is a very passionate like I totally would 100 percent believe. Everything about their relationship and the way that it, well, even, um, one of the other ones that you could say people might be like, Whoa, is with, um, with Walter, his roommate, like that he was mad at him and then he wasn't anymore.
Samantha: And it's like, well, yeah, he wasn't because he took care of his dog, right? There's, there's little things where it's just like. It's an or like, even what would he really keep camel in his bunk with all the and it's like, well, yeah, because camel is the one who brought him on. Right? There was the very beginning.
Samantha: It's very clear that Jacob deeply cares about people and wants the good, you know, that he's this very. And so I think, and that even in the again. In the book, um, it starts like they mentioned the fact that part of the reason why his family lost their house is because the his dad was trading people things like chickens and beads and eggs.
Samantha: And so, like, he was raised to care about people and to care about animals and to do all these things. And so I think that, that the, the relationships themselves in the book also feel very. Real and that I, I never in this book, I never go like, well, that's some plot that they just like randomly
Julia: together when he first sees Marlena and just in that description alone, where she, where he's just like, just enamored by her.
Julia: And at first it feels like, well, yeah, because everyone's enamored by Marlena, but then he's. in that. And then you watch him stay in that and grow in that throughout the entire book, especially in 1931. You don't just go sleeping around like she's a married woman. So it makes it very difficult. So it is a little scandalous to even just look at each other or to dance with each other.
Samantha: Like all these little
Julia: tiny things that Mean nothing in 2023 mean nothing in 2006 because the way that we define what cheating looks like now is so different but 1931 Dancing with another man's wife on the dance floor in such a during a slow song regardless of permission in the way that they danced together is scandalous
Samantha: Yes.
Samantha: Yep. Absolutely. And like in
Julia: that moment I was like, these, if I was like, if they don't end up together, I'm gonna
be
Samantha: livid. . I think this is one of those examples of, do I think this is the, the best book ever written, ? No. Do I think that it is, it is. You know, even like I said, I mean it's top five. For me, um, and a lot of that is about how real the story is and how, how much I can like, appreciate the story, even if I don't necessarily appreciate all of the writing or the ways that she tells certain things or the things that she focuses on.
Samantha: But I just think that as a whole, the book really comes. Together in a way that just feels
Samantha: special, like that the book just feels like a special book. And again, I think some of it for me is that non linear narrative in the way that she like pulls it all together and stuff. But I just, I, I personally think that the book is,
Samantha: it does not surprise me at all that it has sold a hundred million copies and that they wanted to make a movie from it. It's my favorite because it's, It's just everything I like in a book. Yeah. And I like
Julia: that there is, um, a different perspective during the depression because we have so much. I mean, John Steinbeck is one of my favorites and his depression era writing is like really very much rooted in.
Julia: California and how the effects of, you know, the, um, dust bowl has on California and, and just, so it's like, it's interesting to also come at it from that. Here's another perspective of what the depression was like in America, because our country is so huge and like landmass wise, um, and just like the struggles and like with, uh, what did they call him?
Julia: Uncle Al, Big Al, Uncle Al,
Samantha: Uncle Al. Uncle Al. His
Julia: character was so was like just the way that he kind of like worked to manipulate systems so he could keep going and like manage what's going on but then also it's like creating enemies because it's like oh well we're not paying the workmen because we have no money but we have to pay the performers so there's just a lot of this like tiny little negotiations that happen in the background that I thought started to add to the story in a way that You almost need it.
Julia: You do need it all because if you remove it, then it takes away. It just, if you remove all of those elements, then it just diminishes it to, well, here's a romance novel, but there's no sex.
Samantha: Yeah, exactly. And another thing that I think is really interesting with that statement about the. Um, the review specifically, there's an animal stampede, two murders, and countless fights.
Samantha: There's a hell of a lot more than two murders in this book. So much more. Like, a lot more than two murders. And, and I think all of them... have their place. Like you said, I think that you need the build, like that it, that, that I think that's why I like the book so much because I really like books that are built on this really solid foundation, both of the reality of what the time was like, but also of its own world.
Samantha: So that like, even if the first quarter to half of the book is like exposition in that you don't necessarily get a lot of like. And this book isn't necessarily like that, but like... In the context of, no, it actually is really important to talk about how they keep redlining people and they keep redlighting people that like, at the end of the day, like, yeah, is it necessary because they would have just thrown them out?
Samantha: It is, it is necessary to understand that this redlighting was a big thing and then it did happen. And so it's like all of those details building together so that when you get to the like, climax of the story. You don't look at it and go like, well, but how did we get here? I don't understand. It's like, where are all the pieces?
Samantha: Like this book to me is very much. I did not know where it was going, but I never questioned. How it got there, once it happened, and that is what I really like about a book. Yes.
Julia: And that's, like I said, there was a point in the book where I was like, Oh, I'm sold. Like I now am understanding what we're doing.
Julia: I think I know where we're going and I want to make sure that I'm like, I'm right. And I'm in, I'm in, you got me, I'm in, but it did take a minute. I think it was probably halfway through the book where I was just like, Oh, click. Got it. Let's go. Which that's hard for people if you can't, like, people are like, if you can't pull me in by page 10, I'm out.
Julia: And it's like, okay. Okay. But I feel like, again, I'm not mad. I read the book.
Samantha: Yeah, I think for me, where it really picks up, and I think, okay, I'm like, again, I can't say the first time I read it. But like, in thinking about that, I think for me, it's when They, they get rosy. Mm. I think that's when I, that's when I start to say like, okay, well what's, what's gonna happen with this elephant?
Samantha: What's gonna happen with the fact that they're like completely and totally unqualified Uhhuh to have a two ton animal on their circus in 1931? Yeah. Like, where is this gonna go? But, but everything before that, I'm kind of just like, Like, okay, this is great. It's like building the story. It's doing the things.
Samantha: But like, that's, that for me, that's the moment where I go like, okay, let's, let's see how you're going to handle having a massive elephant that you don't know what to do with in order to like, fill seats when you don't even know how, like, the elephant is not doing the things you are asking it to do. Like, they told you it's the dumbest elephant ever.
Samantha: And so I think that for me, that was kind of the like, yeah. That's my moment of like, okay, I am, I am in fact interested in knowing what happens with this elephant.
Julia: Yeah, I love that.
Julia: Okay, let's move into the film. So the film released in 2011, the Hollywood Reporter offered this. Is it decorous? Is that how you say it? I was like, yes. Okay. Thank you. I would say
Samantha: that's what I would say too. I'm like, I don't know if it's right, but that's what I would say. I'm going to say
Julia: it. They can fucking come at me.
Julia: Okay. Hollywood, the Hollywood reporter offered this, a decorous, respectable adaptation of Sarah Gruen's engaging, best selling Water for Elephants would have come more excitingly alive with stronger doses of depression era grit and sexual spunk. And friends, that's literally the only part of the, like, review that wasn't like, here's the acting, here's this, here's that, that was like genuinely about the film rather than like the plot or the story or anything like that.
Julia: So I want to talk about the film. Okay. It stars Robert Pattinson as Jacob Joukowsky, Reese Witherspoon as Marlena, um, Christopher Waltz as August, who are kind of the three main characters. There's lots of characters throughout the book that we fall in love with. We've mentioned Camel, we've mentioned Walter, but these three in the movie really do take up most of the air in the movie.
Julia: Mm
Samantha: hmm. I have exactly two positive things to say about this film. Tell me. Number one. I love Hal Holbrook. Yes. I love Hal Holbrook. He plays the older Jacob Jakowski. He's great. He plays the older. Love him. Love Hal Holbrook as an actor. All of the things. I just love Hal Holbrook. Yeah. Number, number two.
Samantha: This is one of the most cinematically beautiful films I have ever seen. Yes. It is gorgeous. The production design is on point. Like it is beautiful. And I feel like if I just. Press mute and watch the film, I would be, I would be fine with it, but I, I have to tell you that in, and I, we will talk about the book to screen adaptation later, but genuinely, even, that is the end of my list of positive things I have to say about the film, that it is positive.
Samantha: Even in the context of, there are things where I try, so a really great example is that my, also in my top five is the book Wicked by Gregory McGuire. It was the, it was like the very first adult book that I ever read. It was like this thing, it is what sparked my love, like not sparked my love, but continued my love of historical, like changing just the simplest thing and turning it into a whole different thing or telling a story from a different way.
Samantha: Like I love. That book. The musical, Wicked, has literally no correlation. Like, they took the names. Yeah. And made a musical. There is absolutely no crossover whatsoever. And I love the musical Wicked. Yeah. Like I can look at it and say, objectively, I can take the book out of it and I can just say, this is a good musical.
Samantha: I like the musical. I don't care that the book, it's not the book. I just don't like this movie. Like even taking the book out of it, not thinking about like, Oh, they ruined my favorite book or they ruined, you know. No, straight up watching this movie, I just hate it. I just hate the movie. I hate everything about it.
Samantha: I don't think it's particularly good. As much as I could say that it's because of it's not. I just do not think it is a good movie. I think it's really rushed. In fact, I think that the New York Times... Review is more accurate about the movie than it is about the book. Yeah, I don't think that the grand passion between Jacob and Marlena is there.
Samantha: Like, I don't think, like, I just, I don't like the film. I,
Julia: so when I was watching the film over the weekend, I really did struggle with the believability of Robert Pattinson and Reese Witherspoon not falling in love, not because those two people in real life couldn't fall in love. I think Reese Witherspoon looks the part of Marlena for a 1931 circus performer.
Julia: She's petite, she's blonde, she's pretty, she's very Americana in that way. I think... For me, where it falls is, I didn't feel chemistry between the two of them. In the book, there's like this, there's this bridled chemistry. Like, they have chemistry, but they can't show it. So it comes out in other ways, and in the movie, they, it was like they couldn't figure out how to show bridled chemistry.
Julia: Like, there's a scene in the end, August says, you know, Jacob, you're amazing, thank you, blah, blah. They throw pies in his face, water on him, all these things, and then everyone's giving him hugs. And then, Reese Witherspoon hugs him, and then kisses his cheek, and it was very delicate and sensual, and it's like, fuck,
Samantha: fuck!
Samantha: We like we've
Julia: been watching this movie for how long? And you guys finally have chemistry.
Samantha: Yes. If
Julia: you're gonna write like, I don't think that the romance is the entire point of the book, but it's a huge part of it. It's not just the romance of him and Marlena. It's the romance of him in the circus. But you don't get the rose and Rosie.
Julia: And you don't get Any, I mean, you do get the romance between, you know, for him and the elephant, but they changed it in a way that it just kind of feels like,
Samantha: I don't even feel like that in the movie. I feel like maybe he likes her a little bit, but like, I didn't even get that. Like, yeah, this is, and this is going to be a really, I'm sure that some of this has to do with the fact that I am not a Robert Pattinson fan.
Samantha: I just think he is the, I, I think that there are some actors who are very good. When they are playing a very particular kind of role. I think he was very... Stoic? Maybe is the right word? I don't know, like, it just feels like he doesn't have any emotion. Like, he just like... Like, to me, I think a part of it is, is that when I watch this movie, like, I totally get...
Samantha: I think Reese Witherspoon is great. I like, I like Reese Witherspoon a lot. I think... I'm going to have more to say when we get to the book to screen adaptation, but from a strictly movie perspective, I think Reese Witherspoon is great in this. I think that she has a lot of everything. And I, I think that the, one of the biggest mistakes that they made with this film was casting Robert Pattinson instead of someone else.
Samantha: I just think he just doesn't bring anything. I don't like him in this role. I don't think that he, I don't think he reads depression. I don't think he reads veterinary student. I just don't think he, like, It was an interesting choice. It was an interesting choice. Yeah,
Julia: cause like, even in the scenes when he's in school, like, I don't know, it just doesn't, I mean, A for effort, sir, like, A for effort.
Julia: I just, when I, knowing that the movie existed and who was in the movie going into the book, I still, when I read the book, didn't see him as the character.
Samantha: And I think
Julia: for what it's worth, I agree with you, the production of this film, stunning. Holy shit. There were so many costumes Reese Witherspoon wore that I was like, I want that outfit.
Julia: I bet I could find a pattern to make that outfit. Like, all these things. And I think that what the movie does in a really good way that Hollywood Reporter, I think, didn't, doesn't, doesn't agree with me is that they really do make August and Marlena look beautiful and well kept while everybody else looks scruffy and dirty and like a worker.
Julia: And I, and I, so I disagree with the Hollywood Reporter in that regard, because I felt like The circus is trying to hide the depression era grit. They're trying to make people feel like it's a wonderful time. Come and join us for the best night of your life. So there can't be the visibility of our workmen aren't fed and
Samantha: are dirty.
Samantha: And I think that. Another piece of that, that I agree, I agree that I disagree with the Hollywood reporter about the Depression era grit. I do think that they could have done a better job, and I don't know if this is, this may be more because of the book than the film itself, but I don't think they do a good enough job in the film And so it's not, you know what, it's not, it is just the film.
Samantha: One of the things that bothers me is a part of the reason why I think that it's a weird, like that you don't see the same kind of, it's so hard to talk about this as like the book and the movie and like trying to keep them separate because, yeah, because I mean for me, one of the things that I, I kind of like, like, I'm not like, I don't think that Kristoff, like, I don't think August is like the worst human being alive.
Samantha: From just the film. Yeah. Just the film. Like, I think he's kind of likable at times. Yeah. Like, they do not do like,
Samantha: yeah, sure, like, he beats Rosie and he gets mad and all these things, but like you were saying earlier, like, In 1931, it absolutely would have made sense that he was pissed off that his wife was dancing with this dude on the dance floor and that, like, we know for a fact that in the 1930s, there weren't the same kind of animal treatment laws, standards and stuff, like, it's not at all unreasonable to think that the guy would have, have You know, beaten and abused the elephant to get her to do what he wanted, like, which is not to say that those are good things, but I just think that, like, in this movie, a lot of it is predicated on the idea that, like, and even with the, like, the, the red lighting and the, the, the not paying, like in the book, and again, but that to me, I just, part of the problem with the, the movie is that, To me, it just doesn't read like, here's this monster that we should, like, hate.
Samantha: Until the moment, until the very, very end of the film when he starts, like, strangling, which is its own thing that I'm not. It's its own
Julia: thing, we'll get into it.
Samantha: But the point is, I just don't, he doesn't. He's likable. Mm-hmm. Christophe Waltz is like a likable villain and you can't, it's because he brings charm to it.
Julia: Yes. Like the scene when he first meets him, you expect him to be charming. When he's first introduced to Jacob, when he turns his head and he's like, Hey. Right. But then throughout the film, he keeps a level of dynamic, charming ness to him. Even though everybody in the circus knows that he is a monster, he is a horrible person, do not complain about not getting paid because you will disappear in the middle of the night.
Julia: And it's like, it's like they, since they removed uncle Al from the
Samantha: scenario. That's one of my major books to screen adaptation anger. Yeah, it's
Julia: almost like, it's almost like by removing Uncle Al and we'll get more into the book to screen in a moment. But yeah, by removing Uncle Al, it's almost as if there's this decision to lean too heavy on the animal cruelty to make August a monster.
Samantha: And it doesn't work. And also, I think what I will say is, like I said, I think Robert Pattinson Was just terrible casting. Like, I just think he was absolutely terrible casting. I don't, I don't feel that way about Christophe Waltz. I think that Christophe Waltz actually is. It's a perfect August. Yes. Based off of the book, I actually think Christoph Waltz is the perfect August.
Samantha: So a big piece of it is that the movie had to tell a story in X amount of time versus like a book gives you like a longer thing, but that I just feel like you, it was a lot of like, talk about why we shouldn't like August. It was a lot of like assumption of like, Oh, August is mad. About this, but he's not really doing anything about it, but we should just be mad that he's mad about it.
Samantha: Yeah, and I just don't like it. To me, that's kind of like, like, you could have taken the extra 45 seconds to have him hit her before he just like randomly starts strangling her. And like maybe I don't know. It just feels, it just feels weird. I just don't, he's not monster. He's just not monstrous enough, even though he's the right person for the role.
Samantha: Right. I
Julia: agree with that. To your point about Robert Pattinson, I, when I read the book, I envisioned more of a Russ Tamblyn kind of looking fellow, but taller. I don't know who that is. West Side Story. He's Amber Tamblyn's dad, but he was, um, in West Side Story.
Samantha: He's, uh, I have never seen the original West Side Story.
Samantha: Oh, yeah. I told, uh, listen, I know, I know. I, I gotta do it. I know. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'll watch it. So if you
Samantha: Googled him, that's great. I totally agree with you. I think that one of the big things for me is, is that, and this is one of my, you know, book to whatever, like Robert Pattinson is just too fucking good looking. He's just too good looking.
Julia: We're really going to get into it now because as far as book to screen adaptations go, we're, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to tell you where this one
Samantha: falls. Julia, I'm going to tell you, we've been talking for approximately 45 minutes about this, and I'm sure that you will edit this all down, but Even though we are only scheduled for an hour, I hope you have an extra 15 to 20 minutes because we are talking about this part because Julia, let's go.
Samantha: Okay, number one. This is my biggest problem with the book to screen adaptation. And I understand that films have to condense. I get it. I totally get it. I think that they made every single wrong decision that you could have made to rush this story for no reason. And what's funny
Julia: is that it's over two hour film.
Julia: And
Samantha: some of them are totally fucking unnecessary changes that have nothing to do with anything. Yes. So my number one thing that I think ruins. The charm of the book is that they do not go back and forth between older and younger, right, and younger. And I understand putting the book end, but you need it.
Samantha: You need it. Like, I understand the, like, concept of, oh, we'll bookend it and it'll be fine. No, it will not be. There were so many things that were important. To the story, yeah, that was like foreshadowing even
Julia: yeah, and if James Cameron can do it in Titanic in 1998, then we can do it right for any movie in 2011.
Julia: So what I found interesting was how some of the dialogue did make it in the beginning, like some of the dialogue that is used in the beginning between Older Jacob, Hal Holbrook, and the kid from Parks and Rec. I was like, oh, you guys are like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You changed it around a little bit, but it's, it's there.
Julia: Like this is how that conversation
Samantha: sort of went at the end of the
Julia: book. That's the thing. At the end of the book, of the book,
Samantha: I do not like I, that is one of the biggest things. Uh, for me about this is, is the like, why would you put the end of the book at the beginning of the book? Like, Oh, sorry. No, no, no.
Samantha: It's okay. It's a narrative. It's a thing.
Julia: Because I felt like if you're going to rearrange it, then start it where he's like, where the fuck is my family? Like, where the fuck is my family? Because then when they tell him, Oh, like your son, Simon forgot, cause he's also old, you know? Sorry, sir. And then show us.
Julia: show us that he's like living and it's like, fuck it, I'm going to the circus by myself. Because I think That really also establishes a lot of the fact that he still has this desire to not,
Julia: not be controlled. That's not the right word, but he still has passion in him. Yeah. So like, okay. So I have limited abilities and you know, yes, he's an unreliable narrator in present time for himself. Yes. ish for himself in present time, but he still has this passion for the circus that even when no one shows up because all of his family has forgotten about him, he still manages to make it there.
Julia: Start
Samantha: there. Yeah. And I actually, I guess I didn't bookmark it. I thought I had, but there was a, there's a quote in the book about he, and this is why I say ish is because I do think that there are times when he is. He really is, like, he has his teeth, he can eat, he does, he gets it, he's not like, he's not in the huge throes of dementia, like, he clearly is.
Julia: And he does call into question when they medicate him, like, why are you giving this to me, because he's just been difficult in this scene before, and it's like, why do I have a new medication, and like, so there's a lot of that
Samantha: too. And there's a, there's a line in the book that's something along the lines of, like, when you spend so much time with people treating you one way.
Samantha: You forget what it's like when someone treats you like a real person. Yeah. I think that, that a piece of it is, is that when you look at the narrative and you look at the things, when you start it with how, when you start it with older Jacob, just like being at the circus, you lose a lot of, of the, the present day story that speaks to where...
Samantha: This story led us that, like, I lived this incredibly active, amazing life where I was in the circus and I was constantly traveling and then we lived on this great big giant farm and then, you know, all the things and then, and obviously you don't learn that until the end, but the point is that, like, this guy is stuck in this nursing home and even just from the point of like, knowing that he jumped on the train, you're kind of just like, Oh, like, What happened in your life that this is where you ended up, but that you get some of that through that initial narrative.
Samantha: And so when it just like starts at him being at the circus, I'm like, Oh, this isn't like, I, I almost think that like you said about the, the back and forth, like when I think about this story, I think of it as the story of the book. Is this old man in a nursing home who is having a hard time aging, who is having a hard time with the nurses, who is having a hard time with the staff, and is going to the circus, and his kids forget him, and then he's going to the circus.
Samantha: Right. And then, interspersed into that story, is his past. But then, like, I think of the story as the present. And so, losing all of that makes The movie about the circus, which I don't necessarily think it really is because there's something
Julia: about the present day of him feeling left because that's the sense I got.
Julia: He's feeling forgotten. He's feeling left. Not entirely similar to when his parents died, but damn near close because what prompted him to just take off and leave his parents are dead. He's all alone. What now? And it's in when you have this sort of build up to learning about his kids and his family and they rotate and it doesn't feel like an obligation and not a desire to do and all these things.
Julia: And then when he gets to the point where it's like, okay. Take me with you, you know what I mean? And the intrigue that in the point where it changes is when the guy's like you were at that's like the second most Pot in in insane thing that's happened in circus history and you were there. Tell me everything so I feel like
Samantha: You're we're missing you don't hear until the end right again the end right and I
Julia: just I feel like we're missing that, that feel it, not even just build up, but like, he just wants to belong.
Julia: So we're losing that sense of, of that desire to belong when we tell the story this way, I'm really fucking. Pissed about the changes they made towards the latter end when things do start to build up and we do have the catastrophe and all the stuff like that the changes they made to the end made me so upset because I found it to be so compelling in the book about how
Samantha: it was like It was like, holy
Julia: shit, whereas in the movie, because you have all these layers in the book, Marlena is pregnant.
Julia: There's, you know, um, God, I'm trying to think of all the other things that made me crazy, but watching it in the movie, it was like, I just feel like this is chaos, whereas in the book, it was like, this is chaos, but there's a
Samantha: reason. Yes. It's all very, it makes a lot of sense. So I would like to also say that, yes, I fully agree that, and a number of mine, I, I said that the nonlinear disappearing was my, the worst argument.
Samantha: Yeah. It's actually, I realize it's not. No. That's just my like. I that's point one. Okay. It is also like way high up at the top of my list. But my actual number one, you can see I wrote easily my number one complaint is the fact that they made August and big Al into one character. I do not. This is what I was trying to say is that if Christophe Waltz was August, and Somebody else was Big Al.
Samantha: It's very hard because I really deeply love Reese Witherspoon. Reese Witherspoon was too old. They had to make some changes in the book to make it work, but in the book Marlena is like 20. Yeah, she's super young. She's super young, which also contributes to the fact that That it makes sense that she doesn't want to be with August anymore.
Samantha: She was 17 when she met like, or, or even like, maybe not even 17. Like maybe I don't remember if there's like a specific in the movie. She says she's 17. younger book. She was younger. Yeah. So, but even she's younger. So with it, but if it was like, Christoph Waltz is the right August. I just think that they didn't necessarily cast.
Samantha: All of the rest of it, right? And I think there is a world in which you could have cast Reese Witherspoon. Yeah. I just think that you needed to cast her against someone older than Robert Pattinson. Jankowski. Someone older than Robert Pattinson. Somebody who, like, was, was not as good looking. Mm hmm. Like, I think another problem that they had with this was that I found it hard to believe that she was so restrained.
Samantha: When the choice was Christophe Waltz and Robert Pattinson, right?
Julia: So it's hard because Robert Pattinson is a little bit younger. I think he's 1986 is when he was born and Reese Witherspoon. I think yeah, and I think Reese Witherspoon is 1976. And even though she is beautiful in this movie, you can still see the age difference in their faces.
Julia: And that's the other part of it too, because it's like, she looks gorgeous. She's not an unattractive woman. She's aging beautifully. With that said, she still looks older, even though she is a petite woman than Robert Pattinson.
Samantha: Yes, and I have absolutely no problem. I am not, I am not opposed to an older woman, younger man romance in a film.
Samantha: Like, that's not, I'm like, That's not the issue. That's not the issue. The issue here specifically, Mm hmm. Is that the, the actual romance piece of it does not make as much, from like a, like an overall. And frankly, I also think Robert Pattinson was just who young, like you were supposed to believe that he had already gone through seven years of.
Samantha: vet school? Like, no, like, I just, I, it was just a really weird, I just didn't.
Julia: One of the things, and I know I said the end, the changes they made to the end really pissed me off, but I mean, the removing the pregnancy really made me angry, because it makes it so much more higher stakes, because one, it's 1931.
Julia: Do you have any, like, it's like, y'all, y'all, Not like the stakes are so high in 1931 being married to someone else, being married to someone with someone else's child, like the stakes are so high there. And so that wrenches it up a lot in the book because now it's like, shit, Marlene is pregnant. How are we going to get out of this?
Julia: Like, what are we going to do? Cause girl can't go off and get an abortion.
Samantha: That's not an option. No, and, and even if she wanted, like, I, I don't even think she would want to. Because I think that at this point, she is deeply in, like, they are deeply in love. And they would be together, and they are doing everything they can to, like, make it.
Samantha: How do we get together? Yeah. And I actually think, right, and I actually think that is one of the reasons why the movie does such a disservice making August and Big Al the same person. Because I think you need August as this, like, Angry husband and someone else who is running the fucking circus, like you can't have them both be in the way that the story is the book to the, you know, like August needs to be able to the decisions, but then you need this person on top of that, who actually has to like, think about the circuit.
Samantha: Right. And I just think that when you take that out of the. It just, like, it doesn't work to me to think that, like, it just, it just doesn't hit the same way. And even, like, we were talking about with the, like, the, there are reasons that you hate August. There are reasons that you hate Big Al. They're not the same reasons.
Samantha: They're not the, and that, to me, you really do need both. Right. I agree. In order to have the story. And so I think that that's, and I think that a lot of that also goes into the end of it. Because to me, where the, the, where it really picks up. From what you're talking about. And like, what I think of as the, is the, the moment that he hits her and she runs away to the hotel and she's done, and you go through the whole part of like, Jacob, like trying to pretend like he's like going to get them back together and then he's really not, and then Uncle Al like, and I think that like.
Samantha: In the movie, you don't even have that. None of it. It's just this weird, like, it's like 30 seconds of like, oh, and speaking of 1931 and the pregnancy and all of the high stakes and stuff. In the book, there's literally several paragraphs about the fact that a hotel owner won't even want to rent to this non married couple.
Samantha: So like, it's not, it's not out of the realm of like, whatever. And so I think that, that you're right. I think that like, I just think the movie rushes it. In ways, and like condenses it in ways that didn't even happen because one of the things that I didn't mind was like, they make Camel Polish instead of Greg, like they take the Greg character out and they just make Camel Polish and then it's like the The, the foot and the lifting to, like, realize that the speaks Polish and all the things, which is fine, and that's fine.
Samantha: I feel like that is an acceptable way to condense a thing. That makes perfect sense to me. I have no problem with that. But, like, Big Al is not a small character. He's not a small part of the film and, er, of the book, and condensing the two just, like, Yeah. It's almost like it just doesn't work for me. Yeah.
Samantha: It's
Julia: almost like you have some, uh, a situation where it's unclear how to have an ensemble cast when you're trying to hone in on the, the love triangle. And I'm not saying that they did a bad job trying to hone in on the love it. Maybe they did. Maybe they did.
Samantha: They did. I think they did. But like, I think they, I think the movie missed.
Samantha: Yeah. I
Julia: think that they, if you're going to water it down to these two people are in love, but can't be together. So we're going to follow them through falling in love and trying to be together. This wasn't it because there's so much more to the story than that, then, then if that's the case, then, then you have to remove other things as well.
Julia: And just make this a straight love story with
Samantha: nothing else. Yeah. I think this film did not understand what the story was about. Mm hmm. Truly, I think that this, this film did not want, like, and again, I think this is like Wicked, like, they told a totally different story, and that was fine, and it was lovely.
Samantha: I don't think, I think that they tried to bring enough of the book into it that people would recognize the book, and in doing that, They also didn't actually tell the story the book was trying to tell, right? It, it reminds me of the other thing that we can say about time that Sam and Jewel spend together is we're going to talk about Ted Lasso.
Samantha: Yes! Um, it kind of reminds me of Ted Lasso that like, some people might watch Ted Lasso and say, Oh, there's a, there's a potential Ted and Rebecca romance, which I am not a fan of, but I will mention as like a, a thing. It's a theory. Or like, this is about like, Gilly and Ray, or like, this is what, or it's even just like.
Samantha: Let's take all of that out and just say this show is about Ted Lasso and you get to the series finale and they say it's really never been about Ted. It's a non, it's about all of it. It's about Richmond. It's about the people. It's about the club. And I think that that's the same thing that happened with this book.
Samantha: I don't think that it is really. A book about a love story, right. I think it is like a book about it is a book about a guy's life. Mm-hmm. , it's a book about the love of his life. Mm-hmm. , it's a book about the circus. Mm-hmm. . It is not a love story. No. It is a, it is a love story, but it is not a romance
Julia: novel.
Julia: Is, is the love is secondary because it, it's, it's, like I said earlier, it starts with him wanting to. have a place of belonging. He found people that he can belong with. And then it, you know, and then in the, in the parallel is he's 93 and still a seeker. And now he's back in a position of seeking belonging.
Julia: And then he finds people he belongs with. And I think when they that element is removed. And that's, I think the part that makes me another part that makes me cranky, because belonging is something that we're all trying to figure out. And
Samantha: he figured it out twice. Yeah, even to the point where one of the things I, I don't like about the way that they do the book ends is that at the end of the book, when he's sort of done telling the story, an officer, like a cop comes by and says, Hey, they thought that he, I don't, apparently my is just doing whatever.
Samantha: But, um, you know, the, the home. Isn't surprised he did this, like they were kind of just expecting him to come back after the performance was over, like, maybe you can, and there was a cop and without even thinking, without having to talk about it, Charlie O'Brien, the third is like, Oh, this guy, this guy's my dad, like, and just like starts doing it, and so I think that like that is exactly the type of belonging that is missing in the thing, because to me, he doesn't even, He doesn't even have to tell Charlie, like, because of all of the belonging and the things, like, he doesn't ask Charlie to go with him.
Samantha: Right. Like he just said, like, Charlie says, Oh, this is my dad. He like immediately knows that he needs to make sure that they're not going to like, take it away so that they can have the conversation. And he goes, Are we really doing it? Like he, like, Charlie says, Is this really what's happening? And he's just like, Yes.
Samantha: And let me tell you why. And I'll give you all the things that he was like, I know you're not running a grift show. And Charlie's just like, Damn, you do belong in the circus. Do you know what I mean? That like, there is this like massive belonging. And so to just have it be like, we're going to make you the oldest guy to run away with the circus.
Samantha: Like, yeah, it's, it's, it trivializes it. Opposite. And even in the book, it says like, he knew he was already home. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it was just that it, it does it. And not only that, the other piece about the Charlie thing is like, Oh yes, of course you just happened to have a photo. Tucked away in your thing of Marlena and August.
Samantha: August. The elephant. Yeah. That's, that's reasonable. Totally, fully believe that you happen to be handing this man a photo of his life. Sure. Sure. Great. Thumbs up. Thumbs up. Like, I had, there's so many times where like, plot, like that's plot. That's pure plot. There is no grounding to that whatsoever. Right.
Samantha: And so that, that is like a whole mess. And then also. Yeah. Along those lines, they change the Marlena and August backstory. Yes. Like, significantly, significantly, like when Reese Witherspoon, like initially when we, when Reese Witherspoon starts giving the speech about like, I was born a passenger and I was in foster care and like all this stuff I, at the first time I watched the movie, I was like, is she gonna?
Samantha: Turned out to be a pathological liar in the movie, like, is this legitimately the backstory they're trying to give? Like, it did not make any sense to me. I did not like it. Or even just the, like, how long she had been with the circus, like, I just didn't... Yeah, because
Julia: the other thing that I thought was really compelling in the book was how she was like, They're gonna sell me off.
Julia: And it falls in line perfectly with the era that is the Depression. Right? Where it's like, oh, we don't, we have too many mouths to feed. Who can we get rid of without it looking bad? Marry off all the girls. Find some, it's very much that premise that we see in Little Women too, where it's like, Meg has to marry well so the rest of the family can marry well.
Julia: It's like they found somebody that that her Marlena's family, she's a young girl, and they found this old man who still has money that they can marry her to so that way they don't have to worry about her and she's a kept woman. And she's like, Yep, not for me. I'm out. And that shows the strength that she has, which aids in the whole, which, which helps us understand her position in the end as well.
Julia: It's like that character development. You can't, why would you change the character in that way? Oh, because women aren't allowed to make a decision on who they can and can't marry, I guess.
Samantha: In the movie, when they have the conversation about, that is basically word for word from the book, about like, do you really think that Lucinda is 800 pounds and all of those things, and Rhys, Rhys and August, like August and Marlena are both having that conversation, it makes you feel like she is like, With August, on like the way that the circus works and the way that they have to do things and all of this stuff, when in the book, you don't feel that way at all.
Samantha: Like that is big out, like that is Al and August and like this is how it has to be, but like Marlena is, I just love my horses. Yeah. I just want to do this stuff, like I just want to be, you know, I'm here because... This is what it is. And I'm going to tell. And when you, when she goes through all of the, like, turns out I got my horses.
Samantha: Cause August threw somebody off the train and then this and all of the things and you like, listen to her and you realize that like that Marlena absolutely would be afraid to leave August. I don't believe that Reese Witherspoon is afraid to leave softballs like that's a piece of it for me. Like I said, the reason why I don't understand, but going back to the, like the discussion is like in the movie.
Samantha: I totally get that the Grand Passion doesn't exist, but in the book it does, and I think that that's part, the other part of what the book is missing, or the movie is missing, is just like, you don't, you don't have enough
Samantha: of the August Being awful. Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. And when you were talking about, I forget, you know, Marlena and August sort of being in step with each other with how the circus is running. It's almost like they were, it's almost like they didn't funnel everything about, um, Uncle Al into August. It's almost like, okay, give Marlena a little bit of this about from Uncle Al.
Julia: So that way there was that, that pairing, but. I don't, I don't work.
Samantha: Yeah. I don't
Julia: believe it works at all because it just, yeah, it just, so our conclusion is basically that this movie in terms of story deserves a redo.
Samantha: Yes, where I stand on this is the movie is terrible. It's just terrible. It's not a good film.
Samantha: It's not, like, there's no reason to watch it. It's empty. Which is not just because the fact that I don't like the book to screen adaptation. Right. It is that I straight up dislike this film. I just don't think the story is well told in the film. I don't think it was cast right, I don't think it makes sense, I just don't think it's a good film.
Samantha: Yeah. And so, yeah. The reason I want to redo it is not just because I think that the book to screen adaptation went poorly, but that it was still, like, A decent film. There's tons of books I feel are decent. Like I said, but this is one of those where like, even just as a film. Yeah. A hard no from me. Yeah.
Samantha: But I like the book. You mentioned it earlier that you like John Steinbeck because you're in California and all the things, one of the, the, the things that. It's a very silly detail, but I, too, really like things that are geographically, like, referenced, that I can be like, I know where that is, and I know what that is.
Samantha: And one of the dumbest things they did, and I literally do not understand it, maybe it had to do with some sort of, like, copyright or something, but At the end of the thing, he tells Harley that they, that the, the, the vet at the Albany Zoo dropped dead. Yeah. And that they went to the Albany Zoo. In the book, it's Brookfield Zoo.
Samantha: Right. And here is why that is important. It is Brookfield Zoo in Chicago, also known as... The place where I had my wedding reception.
Julia: Overall, the movie just didn't really capture the belonging that Jacob Jankowski is searching for, which in my opinion is a major theme of the book. Like I said in the beginning, I really did enjoy this one. And I have to say thank you again to my guest, Samantha, for picking it. Samantha is the founder of the Enthusiastic Neighbor.
Julia: Her mission is to encourage adults in growing their social emotional skills to turn good intentions into supportive actions by helping them embrace connection, care, compassion, and context. You can learn more about her and her work at her website, enthusiasticneighbor. com. I'll link everything in the show notes to make it a little bit easier if you're interested in.
Julia: learning from her and working with her. Our next book club pick is The Other Black Girl, and I am so excited to dive in with all of you. The series dropped on Hulu on September 13th, and yes, I watched it in one single day. We are meeting on October 15th via Zoom, and if you want to join in on the fun, you've got to join us on Patreon.
Julia: Patreon. com slash Julia Washington. Pick the book club tier joining us on Patreon not only gets you access to the live book club, but you get bonus content like more episodes, book reviews and essays. I hope you join us over there. Jelly Pops Book Club is written and edited by me, your host, Julia Washington.
Julia: The show, like I said, is born from our other podcast, Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous, where we analyze pop culture through the lens of race or gender, and sometimes both. We started the live book club over there exclusively reading book to screen adaptations. If you want to keep up with us. But aren't ready to commit to Patreon though, that's no problem.
Julia: You can join our email list and get everything delivered straight to your inbox. The link to join is in the show notes. If you want to keep up with me and find out what I'm reading, what I'm recommending, whether it's books, movies, or television, you can find me on Instagram and TikTok the Julia Washington over there.
Julia: I. Ask questions. I want to know what you're reading. I want to talk about what we are talking about here on the show and other things, of course. Um, if you follow me on Instagram, you know, I recently did a whole thing about suits. And if you joined our newsletter, you definitely got that suits essay delivered to your inbox.
Julia: Friends, thanks for tuning in y'all until next time.
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